I am a guy and up until today I was doing all the office manager stuff, minus finances, as well as managing the submittal log for an 80,000 sq ft building, very menial!!, and working on up to three different projects at one time, one all by myself. Our office manager quit and I just assumed the role. I am one year out of school and have interned at 4 different firms while in school, i.e. I have enough experience to NOT be doing what I have had to do in the past 6 months however, it is a small office and I am by far the youngest and someone HAD to do something. My case at the moment might be special but with that said, everywhere I have worked has seemed really balanced in regards to the roles that both men and women share in the workplace. Maybe I have been in good work environments?

My first firm, I was expected to answer every phone call, manage the office supplies, and shoo away the unexpected sales rep when no one wanted to talk to him. Firm of 3, so I didn't have much choice.
My current firm is 16 employees, with designated office manager and receptionist. Principals and partners all male, but equal numbers of men and women who actually do the work. Pretty even-handed, though there are other reasons that make it less than my ideal workplace. I know of horrible examples of sexist and chauvinistic offices, but there are plenty out there that behave as you might expect of socially conscious professionals.

As A highschool Intern in an Architecture Firm.... I get all the menial stuff....including Those pesky Reps.....who show uo so much unexpectedly....you expect them. but every once in a while i do some drafting and if im lucky i get to manage the submittal log. But the Library is my domain for now and with that comes the REPS

I would say that most people in this profession try to be pretty even-handed, but someone has always got to do the crap work. I'm one year past my master's degree and I still have to do menial stuff, like sending all the Project Architects drawings to the plotter, that he could do in the time it takes him to explain it to me. Its easy to get resentful, but when you have some experience, you'll be glad to get a peon to deal with those pesky reps. The more you can make yourself useful in other ways, though, the less you'll have to deal with the crap.

it's interesting what some person will say is menial and at what time in their career they will say it. Recluse 26 want's to draft and considers the submittal log a bonus.

i'm going to say that these things like submittal logs, library management, product rep organization are necessary parts of working in an office. it's true that the more senior you become, the less you have to do with a submittal log. the truth is that the data entry of a submittal log is more efficient at a less experienced person's salary rate than at a more senior experienced person's. it's about having projects come in on time and on budget. at the end of the day, architecture is still a business and the books have to balance. from the posts, it seems to me that some people here are fairly young and inexperienced in the workings of an office.

as a person who is managing teams and projects, it's more cost effective to hand off the data entry for submittal logs to a person who has a billed rate less than mine. it's simple economics. and the one thing important to architect in the office environment is the ability to manage people effectively to produce good architecture. that's managing both in-house staff and consultants as well as the client.

the plotting thing is an exception, though is it really cost effective to continue to educate senior staff in newer versions of AutoCAD when they're never going to actually work in it other than just print? that costs money.

the office phone is something different. you could look at it at least two ways: 1. hate it and grumble or 2. depending on how much your boss let's you do, you could field that phone call one day from a prospective client and set up a meeting with them, essentially becoming the project lead. i did this at a small office i worked at where the principal did all the design, except for the projects where i took the initiative to answer and field the phone calls for those new clients (he had a lot of cold unsolicitated clients based on reputation).

the other advantage of managing the materials library, office management duties, submittal log and product reps is that all those things fall under different and difficult catagories in the IDP checklist.

in my experience, the smaller the office, the more hats you wear.

what might be perceived as a problem might actually be an asset if thought about it right.

just my humble thoughts.

What I have noticed with most of my employers is that women get more opportunity than men. In all the places I've worked there obviously have been more men than women. I've had bosses discriminate against men when hiring with the intention of 'diversifying' the office. I've seen women get promoted for the same reason. I'm not saying that the women were not qualified, quite the contrary. It just was flat out said in public that we need to promote women in the design field. I guess you could defer that this was discrimination assuming that the boss didn't really want to promote or hire women. Then again in all the firms where I have worked women have been quite successful.

On a side note I have noticed a lot of women go out on maternity leave only to come back and put in their two weeks and head off for another job. What irks me is that I'm back here in the office busting my ass to pick up the slack, which I'm fine with, but the new mother is at home with the kid looking for a new job. That bothers me far more than any such reverse discrimination.

hmmm...
all good thoughts, and I agree that the youngest/least experienced should get more of the menial work
However, I was not the youngest/least experienced in either of my jobs. The youngest were guys. And they got more "real" experience (ie: drafting, project management stuff) than I did. I was told that I got to answer the phone because people liked to talk to females when they called...that girls were more pleasant to talk to as receptionists.
Maybe I just found some odd offices.
Thank you all for the encouragement/thoughts.

Most offices like for a woman to answer the phone. We usually sound more polite and are what clients expect to hear. Earlier in my career I was given those jobs, probably because I was female, the least experienced and lowest paid. My current employers have pawned the phone off on the women when the secretary has been out but now, aside from the part time bookkeeper, I am the lone woman and have made it clear that I don't answer phones. We also happen to have a male secretary/office manager and it's working out quite well. We're not sure what to call him though. I seem to be the only one that refers to him as a "secretary" so he's trying to come up with a name for himself. "Director of Information Management" seems to be the winner so far.

nameisinuse:

i'm curious: are your main responsabilities to answer the phone, do copies, and once in a while they allow you to draft, or are these added tasks to drafting?

there is a difference between being a drafter that has to answer the phone and do her own copies [very common] and being an administration person that is sometimes allowed to draft [sounds wrong if you have more training than other draftspeople?]

either way, i would advise you to take advantage of every opportunity to show how efficient and useful you can be in the areas you'd like to move towards... that is, prove you are a fast, efficient draftsperson if that is what you feel should be your next step. if no opportunities come along, have a chat with your boss and make him/her aware that you'd like to be given the chance to prove yourself.

in the end, i found that my employers have always been more interested in the fact that i'm a hard worker and am good at what i do, and have delegated tasks accordingly, but at the same time all people in the office had to do their own copies and answer their phone. maybe i've been lucky. pay was not fair just out of school [classmate at same place but with + experience earned a whole lot] but i switched jobs eventually.

my 2 cents.

ps. classmate was male, i'm female, but also foreign [for usa] so i think that had more weight in my very unfair first salary experience.

My first job (i worked there for 2 years), I was a receptionist. period. i knew autocad, had been using it for 2 years, but didn't get to draft anything except for a few pro-bono jobs. That was the boss who told me that girls just made better receptionists. That men liked to hear their voices better on the phone. But I was paid fairly well...maybe just so that I would be more willing to put up with my bosses comments.
This job (thank god) I am finally a drafts(wo)man. It is a nice change from the other office, and I am just starting to get used to it. However, I had to take a 25% pay decrease from what I was getting at the other job in order to get some real work. I am now making at least $2 an hour less than most of my friends, and none of them have near the experience that I do.
Just some particulars to let you know why I'm a little put out.
Your comments lead me to believe that this is the exception rather than the rule, though...Thanks.

i've seen that kind of descrimination in action. the previous office i worked, there as a girl who had about 3.5 years more experience than me but the boss had me doing design development and project management and would have her working in Word most of the time typing (rewording existing template) up design reports and doing menial drafting like door/window schedules and bathroom interior elevations.

i would try to get her working with me on design development but the boss would come along and say, "surely we don't need two people on that?" and give her some letters to amend or the like...

nameisinuse,

Things will get better for you as you progress with your career. First of all, it sounds like you're in the wrong office. A larger office would be able to give you the work experience you need because they can afford to put someone with little experience on projects and would likely have a receptionist who's job is to answer phones. Secondly, you may need more practical experience in construction drawings to make it worth the firm's time and money to allow you to do only that. Third, you might try having a talk with your employer to voice your concerns. He or she may give you some valid feedback or you may find out you're just working for a plain old run of the mill jerk.

You've just had some bad luck with employment. Change firms and stand up for yourself. Women have a much easier time than they used to in architecture but we still have work to do sometimes.

The most valuable piece of advice I ever got was from a friend with lots of experience in business management. He said when men go into an interview or performance review, they spell out their demands and start the negotiations. The shoot high. Their employers then pick it up from there. When women interview they tend to ask what will be given or wait for their employers to start the disussion and then say "Ok" without much negotiation. I realized I had done this very thing and the next time I went for a review I "acted like a man". I did my homework, made demands and, although my employers were a little taken aback, it worked. I got exactly what I wanted and more.

You can do this. Go girl!

nameisinuse,

i am currently at a firm where there is female discrimination, but in a strange and somewhat passive/agressive way. I am an intern so there fore I pretty much expected menial work. I complain about it, but it really isn't so bad, the work that is. The problem that I have with my situation is the way the boss treats the female staff(small firm so there are 3 females including myself). He doesn't spank us on the butt as we walk by, but he does use a condiscending tone of voice, and he has a tendency to insinuate that we are in some way dumber, or irrational compared to the male staff. Considering that my boss can fly into practically a psychotic rage at the drop of a hat, i honestly doubt that he understands the definition of rational behavior.
he is sooo disrespectful to the feminine persuasion, and curses like a sailor when he gets angry, especially at one of the girls here. he does it for some kind of shock value. he's also pulled that thing with the secretarial jobs, only it's the whole firm. if ANY of the guys have to answer a phone, no matter how busy the female staff members are, the male staff, especially the jerk(i meant boss) makes comments about how "the girls" should do what they are best at and not bother the guys that are working. F**king Creton. the ONLY reason why i am still here is because this is my first intern position, and i need some kind of $$ before i ship off to grad school in a month.
nameisinuse, i really simpathize with you, and i do feel your pain. from what others have told me, this is the worst job ever heard of. i just figure that i will appreciate any and all other jobs from this point on, and look back at this one when i need to count my blessings.

I wouldn't call that passive/aggressive! That's sexural harrassment as clearly as it can be defined! At least you have a positive outlook on the future. I think most females in this profession have had to put up with that kind of behavior at some point. I worked for someone who wasn't quite that bad but afterwards I knew I could at least look back and know that I handled it with poise and that there is karma. He'll get his. ;)

nameisinuse

are you just going to get your masters or do you already have you bachelors in architecture too?
and how much experience do you have?
when i started out i did menial tasks too
you need to speak up in order to be given big jobs and you have to do a great job in order to get more...

otherwise....

oh and i don;t see what you describe as the case with females in architecture... its pretty much equal.

alright
i guess i need to explain myself further
most of the girls seem to know what i'm talking about already...
unfortunately.

here's the deal:
i worked for my (jerk) boss for 2 years. the firm was medium sized (20 or so people). two other interns started after me (both boys) and quickly moved on to doing construction docs. i got to answer the phone and do filing...worked my butt off, and tried to have a good attitude, but it got me nowhere. like erin mentioned, women in the firm constantly had to put up with sly comments and other b.s. like that. a few even had to avoid the lips of death.

thank god, i am not working for that firm anymore. like i said, this new firm is giving me drafting work. unfortunately, i had to give up my good salary to get it, but i'm sure the experience i will gain will make up for it eventually.

i'm getting mixed responses on wheter this is common or not. i guess it just depends on whether you get the right firm...

thanks for all your comments, though.

i wish someone explained to me in college what to do when shit like that happened. i was so put off, i found i just didn't have much to say at all.