I have been charged with putting together a proposal for a new restaurant to be designed in our firm. Our typical project type is not retail oriented. Does anyone have any advice on how one might typically set up the fee schedule on this type of job?
for instance, I know that residential projects run a typical 10-15%. Is there a percentage or a cost per sq. foot number that firms might typically use for restaurants?
I also mainly do residential, but have done a retail space. I would say (from my almost total lack of experience) that a percentage basis would be the wrong way to go. With residential, I know how long it should take and the scope of work/budget the project will probably be, and can appropriately set a percentage. But, on the retail project I would probably bill hourly because you really don't know what you are getting into and you need to cover yourself.
I worked hourly on my retail project and made the mistake of capping the fee. I underestimated the hours by a long shot and worked for a couple of months through construction for free. The construction time was vastly less than a house (our houses typically take a year to build, while the retail space took about 3 months), but was very intense and required a lot of hand holding. It is also very intense because with a house, it is not the end of the world if the homeowner gets into thier house a week late, but with a business it might not be an option. Therefore, for the last month of construction I had to be very available. But, on the other hand, I now have a different project type in our portfolio which we can market to the next guy.
Is the restaurant on a second floor above existing retail spaces in a MALL building ? In a commercial building ? Stand-alone building existing or one you'll be designing from ground-up? Get prices from MEP Engineers who have done a kitchen of the approximate size / complexity your client is looking at first, that could help you to gauge what you might expect to charge. We did one that was quite complex, and lost part of our shirts on it, if I had to re-price it, I think it would come out to around $8.25 per square foot. Of course if it's a building from the ground up it's probably quite a lot more. If the space is really high, say 2 stories instead of just 9 to 12 feet plus mechanical space. Have your engineers go walk the building if it's existing, we really got screwed on a lot of complex mechanical issues we didn't know would hit us above the concrete mezzanine deck. Does the restaurant design have to be reviewed by a City Planning board ? A design review (mall rep. or other) board ? If so, that will add some extra cost as well. How fast do they want the drawings ? How fast do they want the permit ? The faster the more expensive. Have fun.
there are a lot of variables here- I assume you are putting the restaurant in an existing space, not a free standing building, right? If so, the range of services can be extreme. Is it a version of a chain restaurant with an established look and theme, or all new. Our last restaurant, we did the logo, the restaurant, the theme, the name, the architecture, the interiors, the furniture, the kitchen equipment, the colors, etc. Our fee for us and the mechanical and electrical engineers was $38,000 and the restaurant is about 1000 sq. ft.
You will have to do it the hard way, and plan out how long each task will take. You most likely will need a good mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer. Do you do lighting on your own or hire a consultant? Do you need a kitchen consultant, or does the owner know what eqquipment he wants? Just let me warn you, it always takes longer than you think, and the owner will want you to do more than you anticipated, so make sure your contract is clear on what you will do and will not- (menu design, logo design, renderings for landlord approval.....)
I agree, you may want to jack-up that per-square-foot number I gave you... sure you don't want to Over-charge, but we had a guy do the kitchen layout for a really nominal fee, he was an architect friend of the restaurant owner. Of course we had a few changes here and there, and the plumbing engineer had a nightmare mess, and of course you should probably figure on at least a few comments coming back from the City or County permit guys that will have to be fixed / addressed. That will bump the fee up closer to where archie is talking about.
Jan 20, 06 6:27 pm ·
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Restaurant Design Fees
I have been charged with putting together a proposal for a new restaurant to be designed in our firm. Our typical project type is not retail oriented. Does anyone have any advice on how one might typically set up the fee schedule on this type of job?
for instance, I know that residential projects run a typical 10-15%. Is there a percentage or a cost per sq. foot number that firms might typically use for restaurants?
Thanks!
A coupon for one free dessert with the purchase of any full dinner.
I would ask to be paid in cheese. . .nothing but cheese.
Good advice - thanks. I will be sure to specify provolone for the air infiltration barrier.....
Seriously,
I also mainly do residential, but have done a retail space. I would say (from my almost total lack of experience) that a percentage basis would be the wrong way to go. With residential, I know how long it should take and the scope of work/budget the project will probably be, and can appropriately set a percentage. But, on the retail project I would probably bill hourly because you really don't know what you are getting into and you need to cover yourself.
I worked hourly on my retail project and made the mistake of capping the fee. I underestimated the hours by a long shot and worked for a couple of months through construction for free. The construction time was vastly less than a house (our houses typically take a year to build, while the retail space took about 3 months), but was very intense and required a lot of hand holding. It is also very intense because with a house, it is not the end of the world if the homeowner gets into thier house a week late, but with a business it might not be an option. Therefore, for the last month of construction I had to be very available. But, on the other hand, I now have a different project type in our portfolio which we can market to the next guy.
Good luck.
Is the restaurant on a second floor above existing retail spaces in a MALL building ? In a commercial building ? Stand-alone building existing or one you'll be designing from ground-up? Get prices from MEP Engineers who have done a kitchen of the approximate size / complexity your client is looking at first, that could help you to gauge what you might expect to charge. We did one that was quite complex, and lost part of our shirts on it, if I had to re-price it, I think it would come out to around $8.25 per square foot. Of course if it's a building from the ground up it's probably quite a lot more. If the space is really high, say 2 stories instead of just 9 to 12 feet plus mechanical space. Have your engineers go walk the building if it's existing, we really got screwed on a lot of complex mechanical issues we didn't know would hit us above the concrete mezzanine deck. Does the restaurant design have to be reviewed by a City Planning board ? A design review (mall rep. or other) board ? If so, that will add some extra cost as well. How fast do they want the drawings ? How fast do they want the permit ? The faster the more expensive. Have fun.
there are a lot of variables here- I assume you are putting the restaurant in an existing space, not a free standing building, right? If so, the range of services can be extreme. Is it a version of a chain restaurant with an established look and theme, or all new. Our last restaurant, we did the logo, the restaurant, the theme, the name, the architecture, the interiors, the furniture, the kitchen equipment, the colors, etc. Our fee for us and the mechanical and electrical engineers was $38,000 and the restaurant is about 1000 sq. ft.
You will have to do it the hard way, and plan out how long each task will take. You most likely will need a good mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer. Do you do lighting on your own or hire a consultant? Do you need a kitchen consultant, or does the owner know what eqquipment he wants? Just let me warn you, it always takes longer than you think, and the owner will want you to do more than you anticipated, so make sure your contract is clear on what you will do and will not- (menu design, logo design, renderings for landlord approval.....)
I agree, you may want to jack-up that per-square-foot number I gave you... sure you don't want to Over-charge, but we had a guy do the kitchen layout for a really nominal fee, he was an architect friend of the restaurant owner. Of course we had a few changes here and there, and the plumbing engineer had a nightmare mess, and of course you should probably figure on at least a few comments coming back from the City or County permit guys that will have to be fixed / addressed. That will bump the fee up closer to where archie is talking about.
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