I am in the market (or thought I was, until checking prices) for some real 3d software...an upgrade from those 'shared' disks I know we all have lying around [remnants left in our studio trunks from school]. I want to regain my abilities to model and render, be able to work with the program for competitions, and use it to re-visit old projects for my design portfolio and future grad school submissions.
I most partial to using 3d Studio Max - however, my last job had Desktop, and so I really like that Autocad/Viz combo, as well. I used Form Z early in school (seven/eight years ago...not a huge fan) and have never worked with Maya or Rhino. [and a disclaimer -I'm not looking to be directed to Sketchup; I know the program very very well and it's just not what I'm going for now...]. Oh. At work right now we are working on Autocad 2005 (which means that if I have to, I can use it to model).
As far as price tags are concerned, here are my findings.
3DSmax8 is yours for the low, low price of $3495.,
Autodesk Viz for $1995.,
and Desktop for a mere $4695.
So my question:
Since I am working and no longer in school (and therefore renting for a semester is not an option...if that even still is a possibility?...And I cannot just waltz into the cad lab at school and park for days while working on a project on free software..) -- what advice can anyone suggest for gaining access to these programs. Or...can anyone suggest another program with similar capacities and nicer prices to that of 3DSmax...or perhaps that is compatible with Autocad in some form and I can use it to add materials, lighting, etc.?
Has anyone else had this same dilemma and what did you do about it? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Download the evaluation version of Rhino and Flamingo and see if they get the job done for you. Not the best for lighting and materials, but at around $1000 for both its a pretty good deal.www.rhino3d.com
You can also get an evaluation copy of Maya, but not so sure about its compatibility with acad.
your cheapest option would be to model mostly in autocad, with some modeling and then your final rendering in XSI foundation ($500)
cheap, effective, and gives you access to mental ray. the downside is it's not tailored to architects in the least. it's alot like maya.
next up above that I'd look into rhino + brazil/vray/maxwell....
rhino gives you a better cad-based interface for modeling, and there's a few plugins / standalone render engines in development that should wind up being pretty kickass in a few months to a year. I've never considered flamingo to be worth much.
thanks very much for your suggestions. i'll check out rhino this evening as well as the other four/five rendering programs you mentioned. knowing absolutely nothing about rhino (and not having done my homework yet), i am assuming that since you all say rhino + another program, that rhino itself does not have the capacity for rendering (or if it does, it's not anything to write home about...) (?)
and yes, the question 'why pay'. in my experience, these so-called 'shared' cds always have been buggy and despite having heaps of open memory and ram on my machine, they've never worked as intended...or as well as the real deal.
ess - the real programs are buggy. Don't think just because they are 'real' they are more stable - 99% of the time, the programs are the same. And yes, I have the 'real' version of Max that I paid for.
Programs to look at:
Cinema 4D XL
Lightwave (I'd suggest C4D, as it's got a modular purchase program and it's growing in popularity rapidly with arch viz)
If you don't need animation, particles, or other 'diamond and gold flake' making goodies, go for Viz. All the plugins (I use Final Render and soon VRay) will work with it, so you'd be all set for less than $3k.
Forget ADT. The models it makes are cumbersome to render with, unless you really plan to make it for rendering, which kinda defeats the purpose (someone jump in and correct me if I am wrong, but that's the way I've seen ADT models - every stupid gyp board is made, every stud wall, etc., etc. - takes as much time to edit as make from scratch!!)
Max/Viz has, by far, the largest resources. So if you want a 2001 BMW 745i model, you can find one. No other software compares. C4D is probably #2 for resources.
Check out www.cgarchitect.com for more specifics from the rendering pros. You can ask people about their experiences. Bunch of C4D users that do exceptional work on there (in addition to the normal Max users).
To clarify about Rhino:
Rhino does come standard with a renderer, but like you assumed, it is not much use. Flamingo is made by the same company as Rhino (McNeel) and does a pretty average job. Both the existing rhinorender (aka toucan) and flamingo are going through some pretty massive changes at the moment and withing a few months when version 4 of Rhino comes out of beta I would assume that they might be good enough for what you need.
On top of that, there are these other render plugins for Rhino that will be out of beta hopefully within a few months: maxwell, vray, brazil. These are the top of the line renderers and would be the same as you would find in 3DSmax. Check out David Rutten's site for some test renders of brazil and toucan: toucan alpha testing brazil alpha testing
Lastly, I wouldn't worry about not knowing rhino. If you are coming from an autocad backgroud it will feel great. Really, the way tools are accessed and called up is not only based on autocad, but they made it much better. There is a command line that works the same as autocad and most of the commands have the same shortcuts as they do in autocad. And as you know, Rhino is much cheaper than anything else out there.
If you want to do more than just pretty pictures, I would advice you to look into parametric and BIM software like revit, archicad and microstation aswell.
3d Software Encrusted w/ Diamonds and Gold Flecks?!?!
Hi everyone...
Here's the deal.
I am in the market (or thought I was, until checking prices) for some real 3d software...an upgrade from those 'shared' disks I know we all have lying around [remnants left in our studio trunks from school]. I want to regain my abilities to model and render, be able to work with the program for competitions, and use it to re-visit old projects for my design portfolio and future grad school submissions.
I most partial to using 3d Studio Max - however, my last job had Desktop, and so I really like that Autocad/Viz combo, as well. I used Form Z early in school (seven/eight years ago...not a huge fan) and have never worked with Maya or Rhino. [and a disclaimer -I'm not looking to be directed to Sketchup; I know the program very very well and it's just not what I'm going for now...]. Oh. At work right now we are working on Autocad 2005 (which means that if I have to, I can use it to model).
As far as price tags are concerned, here are my findings.
3DSmax8 is yours for the low, low price of $3495.,
Autodesk Viz for $1995.,
and Desktop for a mere $4695.
So my question:
Since I am working and no longer in school (and therefore renting for a semester is not an option...if that even still is a possibility?...And I cannot just waltz into the cad lab at school and park for days while working on a project on free software..) -- what advice can anyone suggest for gaining access to these programs. Or...can anyone suggest another program with similar capacities and nicer prices to that of 3DSmax...or perhaps that is compatible with Autocad in some form and I can use it to add materials, lighting, etc.?
Has anyone else had this same dilemma and what did you do about it? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Download the evaluation version of Rhino and Flamingo and see if they get the job done for you. Not the best for lighting and materials, but at around $1000 for both its a pretty good deal.www.rhino3d.com
You can also get an evaluation copy of Maya, but not so sure about its compatibility with acad.
your cheapest option would be to model mostly in autocad, with some modeling and then your final rendering in XSI foundation ($500)
cheap, effective, and gives you access to mental ray. the downside is it's not tailored to architects in the least. it's alot like maya.
next up above that I'd look into rhino + brazil/vray/maxwell....
rhino gives you a better cad-based interface for modeling, and there's a few plugins / standalone render engines in development that should wind up being pretty kickass in a few months to a year. I've never considered flamingo to be worth much.
model in rhino, and for the time being, render in 3d max with all it's plug ins, or maya, depending which one you find more comfortable.
my real question is, why pay?
ops..."crack"... my ruler just broke.
thanks very much for your suggestions. i'll check out rhino this evening as well as the other four/five rendering programs you mentioned. knowing absolutely nothing about rhino (and not having done my homework yet), i am assuming that since you all say rhino + another program, that rhino itself does not have the capacity for rendering (or if it does, it's not anything to write home about...) (?)
and yes, the question 'why pay'. in my experience, these so-called 'shared' cds always have been buggy and despite having heaps of open memory and ram on my machine, they've never worked as intended...or as well as the real deal.
ess - the real programs are buggy. Don't think just because they are 'real' they are more stable - 99% of the time, the programs are the same. And yes, I have the 'real' version of Max that I paid for.
Programs to look at:
Cinema 4D XL
Lightwave (I'd suggest C4D, as it's got a modular purchase program and it's growing in popularity rapidly with arch viz)
If you don't need animation, particles, or other 'diamond and gold flake' making goodies, go for Viz. All the plugins (I use Final Render and soon VRay) will work with it, so you'd be all set for less than $3k.
Forget ADT. The models it makes are cumbersome to render with, unless you really plan to make it for rendering, which kinda defeats the purpose (someone jump in and correct me if I am wrong, but that's the way I've seen ADT models - every stupid gyp board is made, every stud wall, etc., etc. - takes as much time to edit as make from scratch!!)
Max/Viz has, by far, the largest resources. So if you want a 2001 BMW 745i model, you can find one. No other software compares. C4D is probably #2 for resources.
Check out www.cgarchitect.com for more specifics from the rendering pros. You can ask people about their experiences. Bunch of C4D users that do exceptional work on there (in addition to the normal Max users).
To clarify about Rhino:
Rhino does come standard with a renderer, but like you assumed, it is not much use. Flamingo is made by the same company as Rhino (McNeel) and does a pretty average job. Both the existing rhinorender (aka toucan) and flamingo are going through some pretty massive changes at the moment and withing a few months when version 4 of Rhino comes out of beta I would assume that they might be good enough for what you need.
On top of that, there are these other render plugins for Rhino that will be out of beta hopefully within a few months: maxwell, vray, brazil. These are the top of the line renderers and would be the same as you would find in 3DSmax. Check out David Rutten's site for some test renders of brazil and toucan:
toucan alpha testing
brazil alpha testing
Lastly, I wouldn't worry about not knowing rhino. If you are coming from an autocad backgroud it will feel great. Really, the way tools are accessed and called up is not only based on autocad, but they made it much better. There is a command line that works the same as autocad and most of the commands have the same shortcuts as they do in autocad. And as you know, Rhino is much cheaper than anything else out there.
Another David Rutton fan...
Anyone know if the V-ray plug-in is really coming out this week?
Considering that they just released build 7 of the beta yesterday, I doubt it.
Do these plugin companies ever come out with the releases when promised?
I know Final Render (Cebas) has been promised for ages, although they learned from the first update and don't say anything specifc about dates.
Is there anyway to do flythroughs with Rhino? So many love the modeling, but without animation it limits it tremendously for arch viz.
Have you tried SketchUp? I have been pleasantly surprized by that program - interfaces with ACAD well and not too much $$$$$$$$$.
If you want to do more than just pretty pictures, I would advice you to look into parametric and BIM software like revit, archicad and microstation aswell.
yeah, but those models suck when trying to make pretty pictures, at least in my experience. most times it's quicker to rebuild the model.
BIM is great, but its not perfect yet.
link
lets see if this works
ha! It worked! (except for my redundancy.)
So it's not a final version but at least I can get my hands on a copy!
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