Everybody, if you would, sound off on what sort of materials you have used recently for job applications. This is like:
1 short folio + resume in the mail ?
2 single sheet with work + resume in the mail ?
3 whole long folio + resume in the mail ?
4 whole long folio at the interview only ?
5 long folio OR short folio left behind with the office ?
6 other
resume and 2-3 page snapshot of work as a pdf document attachment. a cover page in the email briefly describing myself.
and a note which asks if they want a hard copy. (which if required i either hand delivered or mailed).
Interview:
Depending on the firm. Although digital presentation seems to work in all cases.
option1-A power point or keynote design presentation nicely formatted with some additional 11x17 printed stuff if required(eg construction docs etc.) borrowed a friends laptop since i dont have one.
option2- printed portfolio (i prefer to have 11x17's in a plastic portfolio binder, and prefer to avoid bound portfolios(even if they may are very well bound)
And ofcourse leave your resume behind after the interview. Chances are you'll have a nice colour copy, and they would have printed out a grayscale.
i have usually used the digital pres. since its cheaper, easier to jump to different projects.
#1. short folio + resume in the mail; also include a cover letter explaining your background and why you would be a good fit for the firm; bring in full portfolio for the interview
Well, I haven't been looking for a job, but I have been doing the interviewing and hiring for my firm for the past couple years and have pretty much seen it all when it comes to portfolios.
My advice is keep it simple and keep it in print. In a busy office you just don't always have the time to put a CD in, browse the folders and files looking at the work. Usually five 8 1/2" x 11" sheets of project images is good enough to give an impression and secure an interview where you can show your full portfolio.
The overdesigned portfolios are usually a bit obnoxious and if anything make it seem like you have been out of a job for quite a while to go to that expense. Also, no overdesigned logos of your initials.
No movie format portfolios. Animation samples yes, but portfolio shown in a movie format...no.
Also, don't send an expensively printed portfolio. I usually try to return the nicer ones to the senders.
And, if you are sending a PDF file please use JPEG high compression. The resolution is good enough for screen viewing and you won't be sending a file over a meg. Sending a portfolio in PDF that is over 10 megs is a very very bad thing to do to a future employer.
Lunchtime is over. Good luck with your job search.
oh and yes, if you're unsure about where exactly you want to work, send your resume to as many email addresses as you can...i sometimes got interviews with friends of friends of firms i had applied to. These things (somewhat magically) seem to get around if you're lucky.
in the past, i've sent a small hand sewn folio with my resume. always worked like a charm. while it's always the content in your folio that matters most, i've found that attention to detail on all levels is always appreciated.
here's what i prefer to see -- as your potential employer:
1. simplicity and clarity
2. start by sending me a simple resume -- 2 pages max -- sent via e-mail as a PDF or fax it in -- if you send a cover letter, keep it short and simple
3. include 2-3 limited-size images of some of your work as part of your resume .. as a "tickler" only ... don't overwhelm me at this stage
4. spell-check / grammar-check
5. let me know whether a digital or paper portfolio is available -- but don't sent it until i ask for it
6. if a website portfolio is available, give me the URL ... but, don't force me to go to the URL to read your resume.
7. i want to see the majority of your creativity in your portfolio .. not in your resume ... i read 20+ resumes each and every day ... if you make me work too hard to review your basic credentials, you'll get tossed
8. spell-check / grammar-check again
9. if you want to drop the resume off at the office, fine ... just don't pout if you don't get to see me (it's not you .. it's me)
10. i really like to see a small thumbnail image of the candidate's face included on the resume ... i read so many resume and interview so many candidates, it helps me keep everybody straight ... however, i accept that some of you may not want to do that, fearing some sort of possible discrimination
11. spell-check / grammar-check one more time
12. keep your follow-up inquiries modest ... i don't mind an occassional e-mail or voice-mail ... but, please, please, please don't call me every other day
13 when you get to the interview stage, please understand that i can read drawings and understand plans ... talk me through your projects and drawings at a fast pace ... truly, i understand more than you think i do ... i don't need every t-crossed or i-dotted ... i probably don't have as much time for the interview as you might ... don't drag it out
14. in the interview, i'm looking at you as much as i'm looking at your work ... i'm trying to assess your intelligence and your personality ... i'm trying to gauge how well you'll work with our firm ... put your best foot forward, but be genuine ... it all comes through
15. try to remember that the interview is about "me" ... not "you" ... i'm trying to find out how you can help our firm serve our clients ... we'll want to provide you a good experience and help you get through IDP, but we're not going to hire you based on what you need or want ... we're going to hire you based on what you can contribute
16. spell-check / grammar-check one more time -- think about what you're going to say before you open your mouth -- sit up straight -- look me in the eye -- listen as much (or more) as you speak
cover letter (tailored of course to specific firm)
portfolio (if i wasn't responding to a specific want ad)
work samples (if requested)
as i said in a previous thread -- make your portfolio something you can reproduce cheaply and well -- something you can give away
and make it as small as you can (in area, not necessarily in thickness). i won't repeat my stack theory here, just trust me that Newton's laws ensure its validity.
i particularily like the last line of #16: "listen as much (or more) as you speak." a lot of ppl have this problem and are just waiting to speak as opposed to listening to what is being said.
these are all really good suggestions,
thanks a lot quizzical in particular
thats very helpful to see people prefer email and pdf's,
i was under the impression that it was more appropriate to mail out resumes and short portfolios
If at all possible, call every firm before you send anything and ASK what they prefer. There are firms that do prefer that you mail a resume. Some will not review anything that is emailed.
Also, it's a good idea to call anyway, because you need to get the name of the person to whom to address your materials. It does not matter whether the firm's site has a contact person listed because that person could have quit yesterday, or responsibilities may have been reorganized within the firm recently.
i disargree with quizzical...
as we have seen in previous discussions... the interview should be about you...not just the firm. if they make an offer what are you gonna say? the interview should sell me the job. if they don't care about caring enough about me now...when will they when i slave away for them??
this is why we have a number of new workers whining about the current job they have ...
i do agree that it should not be ALL about you...this isn't a dating show. but i don't think it should be like all hail the donald either!
i have had many job interviews...and the ones i noticed that cared about if i came or not are the ones i like the firm when i worked for them.... the ones that i was just desperate for a job...i took and they never cared about me... this only resulted in a bitter employee.
pdf? hideous file format. maybe because as mwad sez ... JPEG high compression. .. won't be sending a file over a meg. Sending a portfolio in PDF that is over 10 megs ... maybe that's all too common with pdf?
my impression in calling ahead: too many one-person firms. when the fax no. is same as ph no, that's a strong clue :-)
besides that.
most seem to welcome emailed resume, plus maybe a few images. i've 'organized' my images within html (low kb file). i put plain text copy of resume in the mail message, then also attach when more is requested or accepted.
i've sent out very few, so i've obtained no statistically useful response history yet.
if you send a cover letter, keep it short and simple
i love brevity, but i'd like my cover to give a sense of the depth and breadth of my knowledge/experience. providing too many examples becomes bulky. yet, providing too few examples might lead to the "blind men and the elephant" (1) phenomenon. my cover letter may have space to describe only the trunk of the elephant and the tail. so, from the cover, the employer will vividly visualize a gray rough skinned eyeless and toothless snake.
similarly, how to catch the employer's attention with only a brief resume/cover? (other than using psychosomatic-pink fluorescing paper for the resume)
~~~~~~~
1 In case you wondered about those blind men, I later heard (2) that all three were given long sentences for fondling a nude animal in public.
~~~~~~~
2 yes, i heard about this on O Reilly's show. how did you guess?
e909: I don't think it matters if it's a 1-person firm or a 100-person firm - I'd still advise that you at least try to call and ask what format they prefer and who to send it to.
First of all, the email addresses that some firms use on their websites are their "junk" addresses, meaning that checking this mail is a low priority and often done only by an IT or CAD guy. If you call they'll often give you somebody's personal address to send things to.
Secondly, there are some firms that just do not accept anything but snail-mailed materials (though these firms often specify that on their websites.)
My experience in various firms and in hiring for my own firm: a paper resume is more likely to stay in circulation among people in the office longer, and therefore may keep you in consideration longer and by more people than an emailed portfolio.
Especially in larger firms digital portfolios are often not seen by the people actually in charge of hiring. These firms tend to have someone at the lower-management level as the contact person for applicants. It's this person's job to screen applicants and pass on only those with the qualifications that the firm is currently seeking. This contact person usually copies (or prints out) resumes and forwards them to the apppropriate higher-ups. If you send a few pages of work they will often get copied and sent around with your resume (so make sure they're things that will still be clear enough as 2nd or 3rd generation copies.) But, if you send a digital portfolio it may never be distributed at all, especially if it is lengthy.
Also, as to how to catch an employer's attention with something brief:
employers are thinking about particular positions they have to fill/projects they have to staff. What they care about initially (prior to interviewing you) are some basic stats:
how much experience do you have
what type(s) of projects have you worked on and what was your role (have you been a team leader, put a whole CD set together by yourself, been the contact person for some aspect of the project, managed others' work?)
what skills do you have (software competency, model building, photography)
It should be easy from your cover letter and resume to ascertain this information.
Portfolio materials that you send with a resume should be focused more toward images that show what you can do skill-wise (whether that's detail a complex assembly or build the best basswood models) than on your particular architectural philosophy or on your creativity - which are things better shown and discussed in an interview.
strawbeary: my favorite story isn't even about a resume ...
about four years ago, i got an e-mail response to a job ad we placed ... the candidate saw my ad, had just moved to our town and requested an interview ... his e-mail was well written, his attached summary resume looked reasonable ... so i set up an interview by return e-mail
when the candidate arrived at the office - an hour late - a) he barely could speak english; b) he brought NO examples of his work or any sort of portfolio; and c) he showed up wearing a t-shirt
i had to get one of our employees who speaks his language to explain the situtation and to persuage him to leave
I don't think it matters if it's a 1-person firm or a 100-person firm - I'd still advise that you at least try to call and ask what format they prefer and who to send it to.
yes. my impression of email material being ok is based only on phone calls. and my point about 1-person firms was that they do not hire.
thinking about all of this, i'm beginning to think that email applic material is more acceptable in CA, and wonder if others in this thread
have experinced the paper-only preference elsewhere. Only one person among i'm-not-counting-how-many calls asked for a few color samples. most didn't care whether i faxed or emailed (the resume)
but there's no doubt that paper is more 'visible' than an attached file in a mailbox on a harddrive.
e-mail was well written {1}, his attached summary resume looked reasonable ... so i set up an interview by return e-mail
when the candidate arrived at the office - an hour late - a) he barely could speak english; b) he brought NO examples of his work or any sort of portfolio; and c) he showed up wearing a t-shirt
the lesson: never send your personal assistant or lawyer in for your interviews
"1-person firms don't hire" is incorrect, and I say this as someone who started out as the 2nd person in a firm that is now much larger.
As soon as a 1-person firm hires someone else they are then no longer a 1-person firm of course. But this is how the majority of all firms start.
If you rule out all 1-person firms you're ruling out about half of all the firms in the US.
It's perfectly legitimate to say that you're not interested in working for small firms and rule them out for that reason. But don't eliminate them based on misconception. Any reasonably successful 1-person firm that eventually wants either to take on more small projects at once or to take on larger projects will eventually need to take on more people.
after struggling mightily with candidate submittals for many years, i have reached a point where i prefer to receive electronic copies of all materials in pdf format ... if the files don't become too large (> 1 meg) i prefer for all materials to be submitted in a single file ... this allows me to easily circulate the materials around the offfice for review by others and makes it easy for me to store the file on the network for easy retrieval ... often, i will convert what the candidate sends to pdf for storage and circulation
you would be surprised how often i correct grammar and spelling on candidate submittals before sending those materials along to my colleagues here in the firm
I just sent out my resume to a few firms. After working on it for weeks, perfecting the crap out of it, had 4 people read it over for me, picking it apart extensively, and me - I am a pretty good speller and quite the perfectionist -- I had a GROSS misspelling.
Just to humor you all:
I mispelled ARCHITECTURE as in Bachelor of Architecture.
If this costs me a job, I will work in the grocery store night-stocking the shelves so the world doesn't have to deal with my stupid ass in the professional world.
Another job application/ portfolios question....
Everybody, if you would, sound off on what sort of materials you have used recently for job applications. This is like:
1 short folio + resume in the mail ?
2 single sheet with work + resume in the mail ?
3 whole long folio + resume in the mail ?
4 whole long folio at the interview only ?
5 long folio OR short folio left behind with the office ?
6 other
tell us what you do... (?)
good question, i want to know this as well, is it better to stop by and drop off a resume and portfolio? or mail? or email first?
resume and 2-3 page snapshot of work as a pdf document attachment. a cover page in the email briefly describing myself.
and a note which asks if they want a hard copy. (which if required i either hand delivered or mailed).
Interview:
Depending on the firm. Although digital presentation seems to work in all cases.
option1-A power point or keynote design presentation nicely formatted with some additional 11x17 printed stuff if required(eg construction docs etc.) borrowed a friends laptop since i dont have one.
option2- printed portfolio (i prefer to have 11x17's in a plastic portfolio binder, and prefer to avoid bound portfolios(even if they may are very well bound)
And ofcourse leave your resume behind after the interview. Chances are you'll have a nice colour copy, and they would have printed out a grayscale.
i have usually used the digital pres. since its cheaper, easier to jump to different projects.
All the best with your application.
#1. short folio + resume in the mail; also include a cover letter explaining your background and why you would be a good fit for the firm; bring in full portfolio for the interview
Well, I haven't been looking for a job, but I have been doing the interviewing and hiring for my firm for the past couple years and have pretty much seen it all when it comes to portfolios.
My advice is keep it simple and keep it in print. In a busy office you just don't always have the time to put a CD in, browse the folders and files looking at the work. Usually five 8 1/2" x 11" sheets of project images is good enough to give an impression and secure an interview where you can show your full portfolio.
The overdesigned portfolios are usually a bit obnoxious and if anything make it seem like you have been out of a job for quite a while to go to that expense. Also, no overdesigned logos of your initials.
No movie format portfolios. Animation samples yes, but portfolio shown in a movie format...no.
Also, don't send an expensively printed portfolio. I usually try to return the nicer ones to the senders.
And, if you are sending a PDF file please use JPEG high compression. The resolution is good enough for screen viewing and you won't be sending a file over a meg. Sending a portfolio in PDF that is over 10 megs is a very very bad thing to do to a future employer.
Lunchtime is over. Good luck with your job search.
oh and yes, if you're unsure about where exactly you want to work, send your resume to as many email addresses as you can...i sometimes got interviews with friends of friends of firms i had applied to. These things (somewhat magically) seem to get around if you're lucky.
in the past, i've sent a small hand sewn folio with my resume. always worked like a charm. while it's always the content in your folio that matters most, i've found that attention to detail on all levels is always appreciated.
here's what i prefer to see -- as your potential employer:
1. simplicity and clarity
2. start by sending me a simple resume -- 2 pages max -- sent via e-mail as a PDF or fax it in -- if you send a cover letter, keep it short and simple
3. include 2-3 limited-size images of some of your work as part of your resume .. as a "tickler" only ... don't overwhelm me at this stage
4. spell-check / grammar-check
5. let me know whether a digital or paper portfolio is available -- but don't sent it until i ask for it
6. if a website portfolio is available, give me the URL ... but, don't force me to go to the URL to read your resume.
7. i want to see the majority of your creativity in your portfolio .. not in your resume ... i read 20+ resumes each and every day ... if you make me work too hard to review your basic credentials, you'll get tossed
8. spell-check / grammar-check again
9. if you want to drop the resume off at the office, fine ... just don't pout if you don't get to see me (it's not you .. it's me)
10. i really like to see a small thumbnail image of the candidate's face included on the resume ... i read so many resume and interview so many candidates, it helps me keep everybody straight ... however, i accept that some of you may not want to do that, fearing some sort of possible discrimination
11. spell-check / grammar-check one more time
12. keep your follow-up inquiries modest ... i don't mind an occassional e-mail or voice-mail ... but, please, please, please don't call me every other day
13 when you get to the interview stage, please understand that i can read drawings and understand plans ... talk me through your projects and drawings at a fast pace ... truly, i understand more than you think i do ... i don't need every t-crossed or i-dotted ... i probably don't have as much time for the interview as you might ... don't drag it out
14. in the interview, i'm looking at you as much as i'm looking at your work ... i'm trying to assess your intelligence and your personality ... i'm trying to gauge how well you'll work with our firm ... put your best foot forward, but be genuine ... it all comes through
15. try to remember that the interview is about "me" ... not "you" ... i'm trying to find out how you can help our firm serve our clients ... we'll want to provide you a good experience and help you get through IDP, but we're not going to hire you based on what you need or want ... we're going to hire you based on what you can contribute
16. spell-check / grammar-check one more time -- think about what you're going to say before you open your mouth -- sit up straight -- look me in the eye -- listen as much (or more) as you speak
cover letter (tailored of course to specific firm)
portfolio (if i wasn't responding to a specific want ad)
work samples (if requested)
as i said in a previous thread -- make your portfolio something you can reproduce cheaply and well -- something you can give away
and make it as small as you can (in area, not necessarily in thickness). i won't repeat my stack theory here, just trust me that Newton's laws ensure its validity.
nice quizzical. vhelpful for the young ones out there.
quizzical said everything i meant to say. especially about the spell checks. #15 is great also.
i particularily like the last line of #16: "listen as much (or more) as you speak." a lot of ppl have this problem and are just waiting to speak as opposed to listening to what is being said.
quizzical - you read 20 resumes each and every day? Thats 100 per week, 5000 per year [assuming you have 2 weeks holiday...]
these are all really good suggestions,
thanks a lot quizzical in particular
thats very helpful to see people prefer email and pdf's,
i was under the impression that it was more appropriate to mail out resumes and short portfolios
diabase ... yep, that's pretty much the case ... you wouldn't believe some of the things i've read
If at all possible, call every firm before you send anything and ASK what they prefer. There are firms that do prefer that you mail a resume. Some will not review anything that is emailed.
Also, it's a good idea to call anyway, because you need to get the name of the person to whom to address your materials. It does not matter whether the firm's site has a contact person listed because that person could have quit yesterday, or responsibilities may have been reorganized within the firm recently.
quizzical... entertain us, what have you read in a resume?
i disargree with quizzical...
as we have seen in previous discussions... the interview should be about you...not just the firm. if they make an offer what are you gonna say? the interview should sell me the job. if they don't care about caring enough about me now...when will they when i slave away for them??
this is why we have a number of new workers whining about the current job they have ...
i do agree that it should not be ALL about you...this isn't a dating show. but i don't think it should be like all hail the donald either!
i have had many job interviews...and the ones i noticed that cared about if i came or not are the ones i like the firm when i worked for them.... the ones that i was just desperate for a job...i took and they never cared about me... this only resulted in a bitter employee.
1. Call (don't email) the firm you're interested in working for and ask who you should address your cover letter to.
2. Stuff to put in the mail:
Cover letter that states why you're interested in that firm (be specific)
2: Resume
3: Sample work in the form of a little booklet, or 8.5x11s
pdf? hideous file format. maybe because as mwad sez ... JPEG high compression. .. won't be sending a file over a meg. Sending a portfolio in PDF that is over 10 megs ... maybe that's all too common with pdf?
my impression in calling ahead: too many one-person firms. when the fax no. is same as ph no, that's a strong clue :-)
besides that.
most seem to welcome emailed resume, plus maybe a few images. i've 'organized' my images within html (low kb file). i put plain text copy of resume in the mail message, then also attach when more is requested or accepted.
i've sent out very few, so i've obtained no statistically useful response history yet.
i love brevity, but i'd like my cover to give a sense of the depth and breadth of my knowledge/experience. providing too many examples becomes bulky. yet, providing too few examples might lead to the "blind men and the elephant" (1) phenomenon. my cover letter may have space to describe only the trunk of the elephant and the tail. so, from the cover, the employer will vividly visualize a gray rough skinned eyeless and toothless snake.
similarly, how to catch the employer's attention with only a brief resume/cover? (other than using psychosomatic-pink fluorescing paper for the resume)
~~~~~~~
1 In case you wondered about those blind men, I later heard (2) that all three were given long sentences for fondling a nude animal in public.
~~~~~~~
2 yes, i heard about this on O Reilly's show. how did you guess?
e909: I don't think it matters if it's a 1-person firm or a 100-person firm - I'd still advise that you at least try to call and ask what format they prefer and who to send it to.
First of all, the email addresses that some firms use on their websites are their "junk" addresses, meaning that checking this mail is a low priority and often done only by an IT or CAD guy. If you call they'll often give you somebody's personal address to send things to.
Secondly, there are some firms that just do not accept anything but snail-mailed materials (though these firms often specify that on their websites.)
My experience in various firms and in hiring for my own firm: a paper resume is more likely to stay in circulation among people in the office longer, and therefore may keep you in consideration longer and by more people than an emailed portfolio.
Especially in larger firms digital portfolios are often not seen by the people actually in charge of hiring. These firms tend to have someone at the lower-management level as the contact person for applicants. It's this person's job to screen applicants and pass on only those with the qualifications that the firm is currently seeking. This contact person usually copies (or prints out) resumes and forwards them to the apppropriate higher-ups. If you send a few pages of work they will often get copied and sent around with your resume (so make sure they're things that will still be clear enough as 2nd or 3rd generation copies.) But, if you send a digital portfolio it may never be distributed at all, especially if it is lengthy.
Also, as to how to catch an employer's attention with something brief:
employers are thinking about particular positions they have to fill/projects they have to staff. What they care about initially (prior to interviewing you) are some basic stats:
how much experience do you have
what type(s) of projects have you worked on and what was your role (have you been a team leader, put a whole CD set together by yourself, been the contact person for some aspect of the project, managed others' work?)
what skills do you have (software competency, model building, photography)
It should be easy from your cover letter and resume to ascertain this information.
Portfolio materials that you send with a resume should be focused more toward images that show what you can do skill-wise (whether that's detail a complex assembly or build the best basswood models) than on your particular architectural philosophy or on your creativity - which are things better shown and discussed in an interview.
strawbeary: my favorite story isn't even about a resume ...
about four years ago, i got an e-mail response to a job ad we placed ... the candidate saw my ad, had just moved to our town and requested an interview ... his e-mail was well written, his attached summary resume looked reasonable ... so i set up an interview by return e-mail
when the candidate arrived at the office - an hour late - a) he barely could speak english; b) he brought NO examples of his work or any sort of portfolio; and c) he showed up wearing a t-shirt
i had to get one of our employees who speaks his language to explain the situtation and to persuage him to leave
yes. my impression of email material being ok is based only on phone calls. and my point about 1-person firms was that they do not hire.
thinking about all of this, i'm beginning to think that email applic material is more acceptable in CA, and wonder if others in this thread
have experinced the paper-only preference elsewhere. Only one person among i'm-not-counting-how-many calls asked for a few color samples. most didn't care whether i faxed or emailed (the resume)
but there's no doubt that paper is more 'visible' than an attached file in a mailbox on a harddrive.
when the candidate arrived at the office - an hour late - a) he barely could speak english; b) he brought NO examples of his work or any sort of portfolio; and c) he showed up wearing a t-shirt
the lesson: never send your personal assistant or lawyer in for your interviews
~~~~~~~
1 presumably well-written in English
"1-person firms don't hire" is incorrect, and I say this as someone who started out as the 2nd person in a firm that is now much larger.
As soon as a 1-person firm hires someone else they are then no longer a 1-person firm of course. But this is how the majority of all firms start.
If you rule out all 1-person firms you're ruling out about half of all the firms in the US.
It's perfectly legitimate to say that you're not interested in working for small firms and rule them out for that reason. But don't eliminate them based on misconception. Any reasonably successful 1-person firm that eventually wants either to take on more small projects at once or to take on larger projects will eventually need to take on more people.
after struggling mightily with candidate submittals for many years, i have reached a point where i prefer to receive electronic copies of all materials in pdf format ... if the files don't become too large (> 1 meg) i prefer for all materials to be submitted in a single file ... this allows me to easily circulate the materials around the offfice for review by others and makes it easy for me to store the file on the network for easy retrieval ... often, i will convert what the candidate sends to pdf for storage and circulation
you would be surprised how often i correct grammar and spelling on candidate submittals before sending those materials along to my colleagues here in the firm
I just sent out my resume to a few firms. After working on it for weeks, perfecting the crap out of it, had 4 people read it over for me, picking it apart extensively, and me - I am a pretty good speller and quite the perfectionist -- I had a GROSS misspelling.
Just to humor you all:
I mispelled ARCHITECTURE as in Bachelor of Architecture.
If this costs me a job, I will work in the grocery store night-stocking the shelves so the world doesn't have to deal with my stupid ass in the professional world.
straw ... shit happens ... fix it and move on ...
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