i love design, really well dressing. i love the kitsch-niche way we go about being cool, unassuming and around other cool "metrosexual" people.
BUT
i also love football. I am on a football team myself actually. and have fantasy teams. 4 of them.
I've found this rift you speak of however. I'm a designer. Very open and flexible to new styles and old alike. well knowledged in most subjects. And on my team, I stand out like a sore f*kn pimple. Why? Because most of my team are mostly oversized understimulated underexposed male grunts- those in which you speak of cdwhore.
So somehow I have to bridge this link of two very very different worlds together, and lemme tell ya- its not easy at all. Sometimes I dont even open my mouth to discuss anything outside of the normal testosterone flinging drivel that may occur before during or after a game.
an architect who's on a football team. howsabout that?
my masculinity doesnt get in the way of my cultural foundation in design and everything that encompasses it. they kind of agree in this gray area. but really- it is totally two different worlds..
and WonderK, trust me- you should have NO trouble finding men. that thread with the pics i will ne'er forget, you fk'n hottie.
+q: almost all your qualities that you show for a comfy male are true except for the football part. damnit.
oh- and i just dont like pink. to add, my 3yr old daughter would laugh and say "pink is for me" to which i would laugh and agree. and i always listen to people who are not corrupt yet.
cdwhore: what antony and the johnstons song is that? i just went thru all their mp3s. couldnt find it. damnit.
and by the way cdwhore, whether I'm just slam dancin or makin love to the lil lady, it's about connecting with her. that guy you were f*kng just didn't know how to connect.
I think CDwhore is just complaining about single life in general. It has been a while since I dated, but I remember that it was hard to find a connection with a one-night stand. It might be good sex, but no connection there. Now that I have what kyll calls a lil lady, is different, sex is all about connection, I gotta admit than even less selfish on my part.
So CdWhore writes about a different sexual rendezvous everyweek, and expects to find a connection with each one?!?!?!
CDWhore if your plan is to have fun, have fun, if its to find a connection, find a more stable relationship.
Although I still sometimes reminisce about the good old selfish days.
I think kyll is awesome. Indeed, all you guys who are comfortable in your own, very masculine skin, well done.
I also think that while I can't really relate to anything that the CDwhore says, I'm certainly grateful for the window into a completely different lifestyle.
gosh, i remember this conversation in arcitecture school as it related to me. I consider myself to be a somewhat sensitive guy, ( somewhere between the metro sexual and masculine as someone mentioned ) but had all the strange looks in architecture school because I liked sports ( not team sports perse ) but activity / physical aspects that were both stimulating / reinvigorating and felt totally out of sorts with the "in crowd ". Many felt very threatened by those qualities ( although I would never be accused of that trait anywhere else.)
I always felt it had a lot to do with being interested in what might be considered a normalized view of health and well being vs. drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes, although I love to sit and drink coffee, i'll skip the smokes though. I have to say that as I age I am quite happy to move further away from the qualities I might consider to be "metrosexual" and pretty comfortable being a more masculine dad who plays sports with his sons and takes them on outings .... even shopping!
Welp, I can definately relate to CDW. About 10 years ago I listened to nothing but PJ Harvey while in studio just to purge myself of all the sexist comments I would hear waiting tables at a sports bar.....
Now, I rather think that the somewhere in between is more about communication than anything.......
And as a 36 yo mother of an 18 month old here's a little tidbit for all of you women out there (just in case)
Guys are BORN READY.
I had no idea until the day I went to give my newborn a bath, took off his diaper and he had a little tiny hard on. That external reminder is with them at birth. I dunno, that just does not seem fair. I could try to make it relate to architecture/skyscrapers in some lame fashion for the sake of archinect but I won't.
"Now, I rather think that the somewhere in between is more about communication than anything."
Hear hear! I agree. It has very little to do with sports and dress.
And as for the tiny baby boner, that is normal, but in no way sexual... not until after puberty. Just wait until he is old enough to come ask you questions about them, like age 4! Ha ha.
Yeah, know it isn't sexual---just had no clue that guys lived with that reminder their whole life....like, hey the wind's blowing---well, looky there what's that?
Yep, kyll, you're being very honest and it's wonderful to hear.
And I too love PJ Harvey, and before her Chrissie Hynde, and many other angry-grrrl-men-suck rockers, but I also love men. The two appreciations are not exclusive. Women are very lucky in that way.
thanks ap, liberty bell (btw, moms are hot- i remember your pic too)
in the 40's-50s when my dad was growing up, he was trained to be "macho"-tough-insensitive to emotion- to suppress any sensitivity that may show "weakness" or (supposedly) traits similar to that of a woman.
what a load of horse mierda.
a "comfortable"male could balance his masculinity with sensitivity and emotional side.
i guess pj harvey and ani difranco, following the lines of janis joplin and nina simone- were reeling from that genre of men where "male machismo" that was bashed into our father's empty skulls. i guess in cdwhore's case, some of those fathers managed to tranfer the cock-iness (get it?!) to their sons- hence, cdw's hori-limbo partner.
my father was the same as kyll's. as a result i didn't have a very good relationship with him while growing up, and was thus closer to my mother. yeah, go ahead and say it. i was a momma's boy. not really, but she had a huge impact on my life.
i am thoughtful and compassionate to my wife. i contribute to all of the house work, and often will do all of it except for the cooking. for good reason too, i suck and my wife is a great cook. my mother-in-law has called my too sensitive. and no, i don't love football.
i do like baseball though. i play poker with my friends every other week. sorry ladies, no women allowed. swing a hammer with the best of em, and my wife let's me do whatever i want.
is that manly? i don't know. it is what it is, and i am happy with it.
btw, siouxsie sioux is hot and kicks ass, but i like tom waits even more.
According to that I am a male, whatever. I did screw up on one of the language questions, must separate with a comma, so I didn't get any points there. I guess that's a manly trait though, to not follow directions!
'watching football is not a cute boy trait, it is the first sign of fascism and stupidity'
what a ridiculous comment. saying things like that is the first sign of stupidity.
i played college football (not futball), and still watch it. i usually don't have a problem with being in a creative profession and having 'incompatable' outside interests until i come across those whole look down on plebeian behavior.
masking insecurity with condescension is not profound.
saying plebeian instead of common doesn't make me any smarter.
oh stop being defenive, you watch violent men hunt down an inanimate ball.
'i do like baseball though. i play poker with my friends every other week. sorry ladies, no women allowed. swing a hammer with the best of em, and my wife let's me do whatever i want'
you think thats cute? boys only? you think 'sorry ladies, no women allowed' buys you an alibi, makes you like a sweet dumb bulldog?awww...role over, play dead.
challenge yourself, her and the rest of your pack and take her with you. or not, i dont care really. i dont like u already.
i'm not sure if the scoring of this test makes much sense... according to it i'm more manly than womanly yet all the descriptions from each of the individual scores point to either in the middle or more femme.
"you think thats cute? boys only? you think 'sorry ladies, no women allowed' buys you an alibi, makes you like a sweet dumb bulldog?"
maybe he just likes to do it, and doesn't guve a crap whether you or anybody else thinks it's cute
maybe you should stop thinking everybody is putting up an act to impress you/somebody
"you watch violent men hunt down an inanimate ball"
hahahhaa, you're so smart...you're much better than all of us aren't you? oh, please, teach how to live, how to be good...
maybe you should get over yourself. continuing to think that what people do is dictated by what other people will think of it will only alienate you further. maybe that's just who they are, and you have no right to pass judgement on them.
must quote belle and sebastian just for the sake of doing so:
"but if they don't see the quality then it is apparent that
you're going to have to change
or you're going to have to go with girls
you'd be better off
at least they know where to put it"
i dunno, for all the physical/emotional/psychological/financial trouble people get into for sex, it's actually not that great -- certainly not worth paying for (in any sense of the word)
Ok, it seems we have gone off subject so Ill take it even further.
About a week or two ago in the independent newspaper of the town I live in, there was an article about feminism and lesbianism.
These feminists where arguing that it is unnatural for a woman to have sex with a man, and that a woman is only fulfilled with another woman. This argument obviously has holes (children, birth how can that be unnatural?) in it, but many lesbian feminists believe that.
Hell, even aristotle/Plato believed that the highest level of egalitarian sexual pleasure was female/female.
I believe this argument is crap, but my sister doesnt ;).
Ok CDWhore if you hate men so much, this might be right for you. Try a girl and see what happens.
CDW I was with you at the beginning of this when it seemed your
disgust was simply with masculinity as prescribed by 'the Man
Show', since that is a bastardization of our (mens) best traits and
accentuation of our worst. If your diatribe encompassed only that, I
doubt you would be receiving such a backlash (though I somehow
doubt it bothers you).
It's the wholesale rejection of everything male that will probably
piss off about 51% of the population. You are speaking to a male
audience here that is above average in education, cultural
awareness, etc.
Also, I only got a 25 male on that test. I think is because I hate mechanics, and didnt pay attention to the rules on any question. I think Im about a 100 male, plus a few hairs on the back.
Also, this thread got me thinking, and I have realized one of the most male things I do.
While at the gym, running, I have to compete with the people in adjacent threadmills. Isn't that silly?!?!
Even if ther's a grandma next to me going say 3 mph, and Im booking at 7-8mph, if she raises her speed, by golly, I have to do it too. My wife makes fun of me for that, but I am competetive in the silliest things...
'that a woman is only fulfilled with another woman. This argument obviously has holes' :) you see?
'sex, it's actually not that great ' but it is. its a whole language in which i can say so much without words. i can show so much love and a little spite as well.
'51% of the population' i don't think of people in that way...so yes it doesnt bother me (though i somehow doubt it bothers you)
'above average in education, cultural awareness' grades, income or how many books read....yawn.
rejection of "everything male" doesn't piss off many (most) men so much as threaten them, i would surmise
regarding sex, i wish more people would elevate it to more of a level than just a power trip and a (short-lived, eh?) physical sensation -- that's more what i meant, i guess -- because those two reasons aren't compelling enough to go through all the machinations and psychological games with the opposite or same sex
How can you elevate sex? I mean, whenever you get some, you do your best to enjoy it, and you hope that the other(s) do too. That' spretty much all the power I have whenever I do it. How can you sinthetize anything else about sex?
How can you elevate sex? I mean, whenever you get some, you do your best to enjoy it, and you hope that the other(s) do too. That' spretty much all the power I have whenever I do it. How can you sinthetize anything else about sex? How
How can you elevate sex? I mean, whenever you get some, you do your best to enjoy it, and you hope that the other(s) do too. That' spretty much all the power I have whenever I do it. How can you sinthetize anything else about sex?
How can you elevate sex? I mean, whenever you get some, you do your best to enjoy it, and you hope that the other(s) do too. That' spretty much all the power I have whenever I do it. How can you sinthetize anything else about sex? How can
boys and girls and somewhere inbetween
I just saw Anthony and the Johnsons yesterday evening. I hated it. It was boring, like a scary version of a 2005 elton john on valium...
i love design, really well dressing. i love the kitsch-niche way we go about being cool, unassuming and around other cool "metrosexual" people.
BUT
i also love football. I am on a football team myself actually. and have fantasy teams. 4 of them.
I've found this rift you speak of however. I'm a designer. Very open and flexible to new styles and old alike. well knowledged in most subjects. And on my team, I stand out like a sore f*kn pimple. Why? Because most of my team are mostly oversized understimulated underexposed male grunts- those in which you speak of cdwhore.
So somehow I have to bridge this link of two very very different worlds together, and lemme tell ya- its not easy at all. Sometimes I dont even open my mouth to discuss anything outside of the normal testosterone flinging drivel that may occur before during or after a game.
an architect who's on a football team. howsabout that?
my masculinity doesnt get in the way of my cultural foundation in design and everything that encompasses it. they kind of agree in this gray area. but really- it is totally two different worlds..
and WonderK, trust me- you should have NO trouble finding men. that thread with the pics i will ne'er forget, you fk'n hottie.
+q: almost all your qualities that you show for a comfy male are true except for the football part. damnit.
oh- and i just dont like pink. to add, my 3yr old daughter would laugh and say "pink is for me" to which i would laugh and agree. and i always listen to people who are not corrupt yet.
cdwhore: what antony and the johnstons song is that? i just went thru all their mp3s. couldnt find it. damnit.
and by the way cdwhore, whether I'm just slam dancin or makin love to the lil lady, it's about connecting with her. that guy you were f*kng just didn't know how to connect.
great post kyll, I like the part about listening "to people who are not corrupt yet." brilliant.
I think CDwhore is just complaining about single life in general. It has been a while since I dated, but I remember that it was hard to find a connection with a one-night stand. It might be good sex, but no connection there. Now that I have what kyll calls a lil lady, is different, sex is all about connection, I gotta admit than even less selfish on my part.
So CdWhore writes about a different sexual rendezvous everyweek, and expects to find a connection with each one?!?!?!
CDWhore if your plan is to have fun, have fun, if its to find a connection, find a more stable relationship.
Although I still sometimes reminisce about the good old selfish days.
I think kyll is awesome. Indeed, all you guys who are comfortable in your own, very masculine skin, well done.
I also think that while I can't really relate to anything that the CDwhore says, I'm certainly grateful for the window into a completely different lifestyle.
Kind of relevant article by my favorite lusty lady
gosh, i remember this conversation in arcitecture school as it related to me. I consider myself to be a somewhat sensitive guy, ( somewhere between the metro sexual and masculine as someone mentioned ) but had all the strange looks in architecture school because I liked sports ( not team sports perse ) but activity / physical aspects that were both stimulating / reinvigorating and felt totally out of sorts with the "in crowd ". Many felt very threatened by those qualities ( although I would never be accused of that trait anywhere else.)
I always felt it had a lot to do with being interested in what might be considered a normalized view of health and well being vs. drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes, although I love to sit and drink coffee, i'll skip the smokes though. I have to say that as I age I am quite happy to move further away from the qualities I might consider to be "metrosexual" and pretty comfortable being a more masculine dad who plays sports with his sons and takes them on outings .... even shopping!
to be male is delusion and to be female is confusion
sexless indeed
Welp, I can definately relate to CDW. About 10 years ago I listened to nothing but PJ Harvey while in studio just to purge myself of all the sexist comments I would hear waiting tables at a sports bar.....
Now, I rather think that the somewhere in between is more about communication than anything.......
And as a 36 yo mother of an 18 month old here's a little tidbit for all of you women out there (just in case)
Guys are BORN READY.
I had no idea until the day I went to give my newborn a bath, took off his diaper and he had a little tiny hard on. That external reminder is with them at birth. I dunno, that just does not seem fair. I could try to make it relate to architecture/skyscrapers in some lame fashion for the sake of archinect but I won't.
"Now, I rather think that the somewhere in between is more about communication than anything."
Hear hear! I agree. It has very little to do with sports and dress.
And as for the tiny baby boner, that is normal, but in no way sexual... not until after puberty. Just wait until he is old enough to come ask you questions about them, like age 4! Ha ha.
don't worry they get self conscious about it too when they turn 6... but doesn't stop'em from playing guitar though ...if you know what I mean.
sorry about the potty mouth! I'm just a guy after all.
Yeah, know it isn't sexual---just had no clue that guys lived with that reminder their whole life....like, hey the wind's blowing---well, looky there what's that?
Okay, back to architecture...
Sorry, jones. I know you know. My dad was a nurse and a know-it-all. I am my father's son.
a nurse
is a know-it-all
point of clarification, many guys didn't live with a boner their whole life...at least not until the modern miracle of viagra drugs
LOL jones. Mothering a boy (2.5 y.o.) gives me a whole new perspective on men. And makes me love them even more.
the more i read cd whore's rant, the more i wonder how little quality in partners a seemingly bright chick like cdw has come across.
and how they've taken away what we like in our "masculinity" for her and made them qualities that evoke ideas of "fascism".
(btw - i'm not a fascist for watching football and fucking with rigor and control... sometimes)
i really want her to respond soon...
I for one (male) appreciate your sentiments, lb and jones.
wow kyll...you're quickly becoming the object of my respect/admiration.
Yep, kyll, you're being very honest and it's wonderful to hear.
And I too love PJ Harvey, and before her Chrissie Hynde, and many other angry-grrrl-men-suck rockers, but I also love men. The two appreciations are not exclusive. Women are very lucky in that way.
lb, I'm thinking Liz Phair too....."H.W.C.", anyone? :o)
(If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, look it up, you might be as surprised as I was when I first heard it)
thanks ap, liberty bell (btw, moms are hot- i remember your pic too)
in the 40's-50s when my dad was growing up, he was trained to be "macho"-tough-insensitive to emotion- to suppress any sensitivity that may show "weakness" or (supposedly) traits similar to that of a woman.
what a load of horse mierda.
a "comfortable"male could balance his masculinity with sensitivity and emotional side.
i guess pj harvey and ani difranco, following the lines of janis joplin and nina simone- were reeling from that genre of men where "male machismo" that was bashed into our father's empty skulls. i guess in cdwhore's case, some of those fathers managed to tranfer the cock-iness (get it?!) to their sons- hence, cdw's hori-limbo partner.
my father was the same as kyll's. as a result i didn't have a very good relationship with him while growing up, and was thus closer to my mother. yeah, go ahead and say it. i was a momma's boy. not really, but she had a huge impact on my life.
i am thoughtful and compassionate to my wife. i contribute to all of the house work, and often will do all of it except for the cooking. for good reason too, i suck and my wife is a great cook. my mother-in-law has called my too sensitive. and no, i don't love football.
i do like baseball though. i play poker with my friends every other week. sorry ladies, no women allowed. swing a hammer with the best of em, and my wife let's me do whatever i want.
is that manly? i don't know. it is what it is, and i am happy with it.
btw, siouxsie sioux is hot and kicks ass, but i like tom waits even more.
its simple:
just take the test
That was fun. My score is 0, so I guess I guess I'm a twisted sexless creature.
25 male
According to that I am a male, whatever. I did screw up on one of the language questions, must separate with a comma, so I didn't get any points there. I guess that's a manly trait though, to not follow directions!
...I was a daddy's girl, growing up on the farm, riding in tractors, welding, fixing machinery...
I used commas and got 0 for the first word, but only when the score for the second word was displayed. I think it's a glitch.
i'm such a man...i don't know whether i should be proud or not...
'watching football is not a cute boy trait, it is the first sign of fascism and stupidity'
what a ridiculous comment. saying things like that is the first sign of stupidity.
i played college football (not futball), and still watch it. i usually don't have a problem with being in a creative profession and having 'incompatable' outside interests until i come across those whole look down on plebeian behavior.
masking insecurity with condescension is not profound.
saying plebeian instead of common doesn't make me any smarter.
oh stop being defenive, you watch violent men hunt down an inanimate ball.
'i do like baseball though. i play poker with my friends every other week. sorry ladies, no women allowed. swing a hammer with the best of em, and my wife let's me do whatever i want'
you think thats cute? boys only? you think 'sorry ladies, no women allowed' buys you an alibi, makes you like a sweet dumb bulldog?awww...role over, play dead.
challenge yourself, her and the rest of your pack and take her with you. or not, i dont care really. i dont like u already.
oh and :)
i'm not sure if the scoring of this test makes much sense... according to it i'm more manly than womanly yet all the descriptions from each of the individual scores point to either in the middle or more femme.
it guessed correctly at the engineer in me.
"you think thats cute? boys only? you think 'sorry ladies, no women allowed' buys you an alibi, makes you like a sweet dumb bulldog?"
maybe he just likes to do it, and doesn't guve a crap whether you or anybody else thinks it's cute
maybe you should stop thinking everybody is putting up an act to impress you/somebody
"you watch violent men hunt down an inanimate ball"
hahahhaa, you're so smart...you're much better than all of us aren't you? oh, please, teach how to live, how to be good...
maybe you should get over yourself. continuing to think that what people do is dictated by what other people will think of it will only alienate you further. maybe that's just who they are, and you have no right to pass judgement on them.
Less is a whore.
you are making me wet
"Did she really just say that cavier turns her shit green?!?"
must quote belle and sebastian just for the sake of doing so:
"but if they don't see the quality then it is apparent that
you're going to have to change
or you're going to have to go with girls
you'd be better off
at least they know where to put it"
i dunno, for all the physical/emotional/psychological/financial trouble people get into for sex, it's actually not that great -- certainly not worth paying for (in any sense of the word)
Ok, it seems we have gone off subject so Ill take it even further.
About a week or two ago in the independent newspaper of the town I live in, there was an article about feminism and lesbianism.
These feminists where arguing that it is unnatural for a woman to have sex with a man, and that a woman is only fulfilled with another woman. This argument obviously has holes (children, birth how can that be unnatural?) in it, but many lesbian feminists believe that.
Hell, even aristotle/Plato believed that the highest level of egalitarian sexual pleasure was female/female.
I believe this argument is crap, but my sister doesnt ;).
Ok CDWhore if you hate men so much, this might be right for you. Try a girl and see what happens.
CDW I was with you at the beginning of this when it seemed your
disgust was simply with masculinity as prescribed by 'the Man
Show', since that is a bastardization of our (mens) best traits and
accentuation of our worst. If your diatribe encompassed only that, I
doubt you would be receiving such a backlash (though I somehow
doubt it bothers you).
It's the wholesale rejection of everything male that will probably
piss off about 51% of the population. You are speaking to a male
audience here that is above average in education, cultural
awareness, etc.
Also, I only got a 25 male on that test. I think is because I hate mechanics, and didnt pay attention to the rules on any question. I think Im about a 100 male, plus a few hairs on the back.
Also, this thread got me thinking, and I have realized one of the most male things I do.
While at the gym, running, I have to compete with the people in adjacent threadmills. Isn't that silly?!?!
Even if ther's a grandma next to me going say 3 mph, and Im booking at 7-8mph, if she raises her speed, by golly, I have to do it too. My wife makes fun of me for that, but I am competetive in the silliest things...
'that a woman is only fulfilled with another woman. This argument obviously has holes' :) you see?
'sex, it's actually not that great ' but it is. its a whole language in which i can say so much without words. i can show so much love and a little spite as well.
'51% of the population' i don't think of people in that way...so yes it doesnt bother me (though i somehow doubt it bothers you)
'above average in education, cultural awareness' grades, income or how many books read....yawn.
rejection of "everything male" doesn't piss off many (most) men so much as threaten them, i would surmise
regarding sex, i wish more people would elevate it to more of a level than just a power trip and a (short-lived, eh?) physical sensation -- that's more what i meant, i guess -- because those two reasons aren't compelling enough to go through all the machinations and psychological games with the opposite or same sex
How can you elevate sex? I mean, whenever you get some, you do your best to enjoy it, and you hope that the other(s) do too. That' spretty much all the power I have whenever I do it. How can you sinthetize anything else about sex?
How can you elevate sex? I mean, whenever you get some, you do your best to enjoy it, and you hope that the other(s) do too. That' spretty much all the power I have whenever I do it. How can you sinthetize anything else about sex? How
How can you elevate sex? I mean, whenever you get some, you do your best to enjoy it, and you hope that the other(s) do too. That' spretty much all the power I have whenever I do it. How can you sinthetize anything else about sex?
How can you elevate sex? I mean, whenever you get some, you do your best to enjoy it, and you hope that the other(s) do too. That' spretty much all the power I have whenever I do it. How can you sinthetize anything else about sex? How can
oups
you are such a pleasant one cdw. maybe you should stop looking for love in all the wrong places. it would certainly make you less bitter.
you're boring me now.
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