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Kinko's Book Binding

Pimp Minister Pete Nice

I am putting my portfolio together and I wanted to get it book bound. Problem is Kinkos seems to be the only place to offer it and I wouldn't know how to bind a book/portfolio myself nor would want too. In addition, when you are in photoshop/Illustrator what should the margins be on the left or right where the book would get bound? 1/2"?

Thanks

 
Jun 10, 04 4:08 pm
Mike

Places like Staples and Office Max will bind for you, with a myriad of binding options and colors. The margins for where the book will be bound, "the gutter" in publisherspeak depends on how thick the book is, but 1/2 in. should serve you just fine.

Jun 10, 04 4:19 pm  · 
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mbr

I've never had a problem with Kinkos. As a matter of fact, I just had something bound last night (I haven't seen it yet, but hear its just great).

Jun 10, 04 4:27 pm  · 
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e

i would probably choose to do a bit of research on how to bind a book before i would trust kinkos. they have screwed up almost every job i took there.

i have a few thoughts to consider. there are several small book binders out there who might be interested in doing it for you. take a look in your local yellow pages. they would be able to give you good advice but will probably cost you money. at least you won't get a plastic spiral bound book. they also have the ability to make fabric wrapped boxes like clamshells. again, it will cost you.

i know you don't want to do it yourself, but with all of the model making skills you've gained, binding a book is not that daunting.

paper companies will send you paper samples for free if you pass it off to them that it's for a print client. i've gotten 50-100 sheets of 12"x18" of 100lb text before without question and without cost. you can learn how to do a simple japanese bind with fairly quick. you could practice on test sheets until you have it right and have the confindence. making a cloth covered clam shell is not that diffcult either. this would give you a box to store unbound sheets of your work in. you could add and remove projects with ease. go to any art supply store. they usually have a book binding section.

for more info in a japanese book binding, go to google. you'll get many links to pick from.

for more book binding info >>

book binding by arthur w. johnson
the craft of bookbinding by manly banister [what a name]

Jun 10, 04 4:29 pm  · 
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Cafe Press

publish your own books for cheap!

Jun 10, 04 4:34 pm  · 
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joe

john - yeah but no color accept the cover, and no custom sizes. although they are cheap. and have 3 options for binding depending on size. itd be nice if they did have color

Jun 10, 04 5:06 pm  · 
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oh color well thats another story.

Jun 10, 04 5:09 pm  · 
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Pimp Minister Pete Nice

Thanks for the info....John I checked the site but they don't have any exemplars of thier work. "e" What I have 60lbs brochure paper 8x11 how does that compare to 100lbs - which is better for portfolio for grad school? I am going with a matte finish BTW, and the paper white or light gray - I want to keep it simple but I want a book bind.

Jun 10, 04 5:11 pm  · 
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anatomical gift

Just do wire.

Jun 10, 04 5:16 pm  · 
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Dolores

Hey, do you want us to design your whole portfolio for you?

You're background isn't in architecture, is it?

Size of the portfolio; the way it's bound; type of paper; color of the paper; THESE ARE ALL THINGS YOU HAVE TO DECIDE FOR YOURSELF!!

Jun 10, 04 5:17 pm  · 
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Pimp Minister Pete Nice

I guess I should add that I recently got a new wide format hp 9560 printer so size really isn't an issue plus it capable or borderless printing. I will print on my own but need to get it bound.

Jun 10, 04 5:18 pm  · 
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Pimp Minister Pete Nice

Dolores, I am asking about media since others have gone through this process before I thought I could gain some insight. Is that OK?

Jun 10, 04 5:19 pm  · 
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anatomical gift

Epson Double Sided Matte wire bound.

Jun 10, 04 5:21 pm  · 
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I would buy a "how to" book and do it myself personally...depending on how many I'm sending, but if I was going to make five or so I'd do it by hand. Or you could do a fancy Japanese binding like this. Which is simple and beautiful.

For the paper weight I would go to your local printer and find what you like - you can always call cafe press and see if they can send you a paper sample book. In the end I think something handmade is the best bet, but I guess it depends on what you want to represent your work.

Jun 10, 04 5:24 pm  · 
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Dolores

I didn't mean to strike a nerve.

I'll rephrase:
You mentioned you were making your portfolio for grad school?
So then you have until at least December to get out this portfolio, yes?
So why don't you take that six months and do some experimenting with different types of binding, paper, color, layout, etc.
You can do a lot in six months - calm down.

Jun 10, 04 5:28 pm  · 
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e

pimp, 60lb text is pretty thin for images. i would do 80-100lb text. this will limit show through.

Jun 10, 04 5:29 pm  · 
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archit84

yes 100lb for sure,
you may want to hand sew the binding yourself
you probably won't get into grad school if you use a store bought binding....
what are u gonna do in grad school, go to an architect and buy designs?
I made my binding out of wool, YES wool, I raised the sheep myself. I find this is the only way to do it right. I mean u can buy wool at the store but that is not a good idea. I hear kinkos is gonna start to carry wool, but i wouldn't trust it. Buy a two sheep, mate them, raise the youngun, shear it, take the wool and make a binding, you can get it done by december

Jun 10, 04 5:41 pm  · 
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archit84

i actually used 100lb text, grey wire binding at the local store, Kinkos really sucks to answer your question

Jun 10, 04 5:42 pm  · 
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Wire works. Its more about whats inside. Here is what Princeton says:

PORTFOLIO. A portfolio of design work is required of all applicants. The portfolio, along with the other application materials, will be reviewed by the Admission Committee, which determines the applicant's qualification for admission and the most suitable program. Applicants should prepare the portfolio carefully to illustrate best their individual potential as a designer. It should be bound into a brochure no larger than 9" by 12" (overall size). The Admission Committee is interested in the quality of the work submitted in the portfolio, so applicants are advised not to lavish energy and expense on special or unusual packaging that is likely to be damaged in handling. Do not submit slides, loose sheets, or original drawings.

Jun 10, 04 5:50 pm  · 
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archit84

damn u Princeton, that is why i didn't get in, they didn't like my wool binding

Jun 10, 04 5:57 pm  · 
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psycho-mullet

Where do you live? I know a few shops in LA that do some binding that aren't too expensive. They were actually cheaper than kinkos, had the exact type of binding I wanted (kinkos didn't) and got it back to me the next day (kinkos wanted it for a few days).

Jun 10, 04 6:02 pm  · 
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anatomical gift

archit84 - I hope you didn't feed your sheep hormones. You won't get in anywhere if your portfolio isn't organic.

Jun 10, 04 6:03 pm  · 
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archit84

i knew i forgot something, time to start over, no hormones this time, i'll apply to the GSD in 2008 when my young sheep has had time enough to grow.

Jun 10, 04 6:12 pm  · 
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Is this an armenian thing?

Jun 10, 04 6:17 pm  · 
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anatomical gift

You didn't get into Princeton or the GSD? Damn, you must have had one processed, inorganic. over-engineered, mass produced portfolio.

Jun 10, 04 6:17 pm  · 
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Marc Pittsley

If you want to get into Columbia, you better make sure your binding isn't wool, but rather bio-engineered spider silk spun from goats.

Otherwise, I'm sorry, but you're just not progressive enough.

Jun 10, 04 6:18 pm  · 
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archit84

yes i put my armenian grandmother to work sewing and tried to pass it off as my own, maybe that is why Berkley turned me away. Princeton and the GSD didn't figure it out but Berkley saw the stitching and knew only a 77 year old armenian women could pull that off.
i dont' think the spider silk will even get me into berkley now, they know i'm a cheat

Jun 10, 04 6:23 pm  · 
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mdler

kinkos...make sure you hold their hand while they are binding your stuff. Also, if you do go to Kinkos, make sure the blades on their whole punches are sharp.

Jun 10, 04 6:25 pm  · 
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anatomical gift

Another reason is that Berkeley gets pretty pissed off when you misspell the name of their University.

Jun 10, 04 6:26 pm  · 
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archit84

oops maybe it wasn't the binding at all
maybe the binding doesn't really matter
something to think about PMPN

Jun 10, 04 6:28 pm  · 
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mbr

Some Universities require specific bindings. I think it was Columbia that required a glue binding (I could only guess for ease of stacking them). It sucked, it looked horrible, cut off stuff, made the 2 page spreads useless, and the binding would break on the first view, allowing the pages to fall out (they also required you to put your name on every page!). Still got me in, though. Or was that Berkeley? Can't remember.


Point being, as I think was concluded above, don't worry about the binding. Some people spent thousands on printing. I just printed on my Epson, spray mounted pages together (before there was the double side heavy weight matte, which is great stuff!), and had it bound at the local copiers. It worked, got me in everywhere I wanted.
I paid no attention to margins or borders, just left 1/8" on 3 sides and 1/2" on the bottome (same as I do now).

Just remember, content is king.

Jun 10, 04 7:39 pm  · 
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duke19_98

This Japanese style binding looks like it would prohibit the viewer from laying the book flat and might also be hard to fold the pages back and forth...

I'd like to have a more unique binding, but I really like the fact that with spiral you can lay it flat on the table. It makes the folio super easy to look through.

Kinkos blows balls. Several of my friends have had their entire folios punched and bound on the wrong side. Find a small binding store. I used a clear plastic that looks pretty pimp. Also there are some punchers out there that make square holes rather than round.

Jun 10, 04 7:53 pm  · 
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e

defenestrator, you are right about it not laying flat, but there are other types of hand binds that will allow it to do so. it's similar to saddle stitching but using thread instead of staples.

Jun 10, 04 8:33 pm  · 
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.dwg

Pimp Minister:

Kinkos sucks at everything. I agree with Defenestrator. a small printing place will give you one-on-one service.

For the margines for binding, you can even go less than 1/2 inch. the minimum you'll need is 1/4 inch for the text to be just flush with the binding. i used wire binding instead of spiral. it lays out flat and doesn't make the left side higher than the right when the book is opened.

Jun 11, 04 1:23 am  · 
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Mission St.

find the smallest, oldest, dirtiest print shop in town, one with actual presses and ink, "OPEN" sign in the dirty window askew. go in. it'll be either too warm or too cold inside, and it will *smell*; like fresh printing, bad coffee, b.o., and cigarettes. the old man at his desk back behind the glass display counter (full of sad little black and white business cards and garish wedding invitation samples) will look sideways at you for a minute and pretend to do some paperwork (wrinkled piles of bills, bills and more bills that he can't pay). tell him you need to get your book bound, just one book. he'll grunt/laugh and snarl at you to "take it to kinko's!". tell him, "no, i want a *real* book-binding for my portfolio." after a half-hour or so of this sort of back and forth bullshit, if you're real cool, and very persistent, and put up with him blowing smoke in your face and getting a few ashes on your precious little portfolio, he *might* deign to see if he can get the stitcher running... "can't remember the last time anyone wanted anything *bound*... it's all staples and spiral binding these days..."

so anyway... yeah, take it to a small printing place. expect to pay some money. $20? don't expect it to happen right away. make friends with this guy, maybe he'll show you the letterpress and the drawers full of type. look at some paper samples, thousands and thousands of paper samples... the possibilities are endless.

Jun 11, 04 4:44 am  · 
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kissy_face

Kinkos is the worst at everything, and they also are the most expensive. It is well known that in order to get things done properly and/or in a timely manner you have to slip the guy some cash under the table. They don't give a shit about your work or the quality of theirs and they make no attempt to hide this. If you care about your portfolio at all, please take it elsewhere. When I had my thesis book bound, Gnomon's copy bound both copies for 15 dollars, total.

Jun 11, 04 5:41 am  · 
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Pimp Minister Pete Nice

Mission St. I agree. Are you a writer? I could see that really happening and I almost smelt the smoke as I was reading the post. One note, I think that spiral bound is good don't get me wrong becuase I used it with my first portfolio a 2 yrs back. But I think that a book binding would look more professional this time.

Jun 11, 04 9:29 am  · 
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David Zeibin

Totally right, Mission St. I took 80lb laser paper and got colour laser prints done at a small print shop at about $1.75 CDN each. The print quality was phenomenal. I cropped everything down to 13.5"x9" pages (wide landscape, sort of legal almost) to get full bleeds everywhere, spray-mounted pages together and hole punched each double-sided page myself.

The pages turned out really strong and heavy, but still bendy, which made for nice page turning. I lopped off the covers of a duotang and made hard covers out of matboard and connected them to the duotang spine using, um, really sticky glue (I also used the duotang colour as my one accent colour for text explanations in the pages).

I inserted the pages, stenciled some nice text of my name on the front, and built a pocket in the inside cover to store my other application pages in. It turned out well, but I'd bet one of covers eventually fell off. It didn't lie flat either, which saddened me, but I didn't have the time to think too much about it: spent too much time on the content, which I don't think was a mistake. But I'm sure they appreciated the effort of my homemade bind...

But of the things I researched, small places can do some decent coil or wire-O binding. Just be sure to ask about the max cover thickness if you're planning on doing anything heavy.

Good luck with your application!

Jun 11, 04 11:47 am  · 
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duke19_98

Although your story in lovely Mission st. I have not had that experience at the small binding shop around the corner. It's this middle aged lady that is always happy to see an architecture student. She'll always stop whatever she is working on and hook you up with whatever you need. Best of all she charges a buck fifty for spiral binding.

Jun 11, 04 11:57 am  · 
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iwish

I had my portfolio done in a small shop in a small town. It was pretty much much as Mission st. described it, except the chain smoking guy was extremely friendly, and we spent an hour on some very old equipment stapling and trimming the edges of my "book". It turned out great, actually the binding was probably better than the content.

Jun 11, 04 12:46 pm  · 
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iwish

Oh yeah, and the guy refused to take any money for it.

Jun 11, 04 12:46 pm  · 
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eringobraugh

i got my portfolio bound at kinko's and was a COMPLETE DISASTER..from what others have commented, it must have been the people that worked there...they F'd it up soooo badly that they almost had to reprint half the pages in the book:
-bound it backwards
-after arranging it myself in order they "shuffled the deck"
-finger prints all over the pages
-smudges

Jun 14, 04 11:39 am  · 
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mwad

Have you seen that Chappele Show skit about the popCOPY(Kinkos) training video? Pretty damn funny. I do like the quality of their Canon Fiery printers though.

Jun 14, 04 1:21 pm  · 
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joe

mwad - the chappelle sketch about popcopy is actually based on a copy store called popcopy. on the dvd of the first season there is commentary for that episode and dave and the co-creator were talking about it. they said the owner of the real popcopy didnt care.

that said I dread having to go to kinkos, no one I know has had a flawless experience there. everyone has had at least one mess up, and it just gets real old. I try and support the independently owned places here in savannah, ya know help the little guy. its better quality as well.

Jun 14, 04 5:58 pm  · 
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mwad

Yeah I havent watched the DVD with commentary yet, I just assumed it was Kinkos from the color/font of the logo and well, the whole skit. Where do they have popcopy's?

Jun 14, 04 6:18 pm  · 
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joe

I dont think they said. just talking mainly about Guillermo Diaz and Michael Rapaport and stuff. how they were talking made it sound like it was just one store?

Jun 14, 04 6:39 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

hey guys....i know someone who is a book binder (she does really cool small stuff, very much like the small bookbinder mission st. mentioned (only that she is always loaded with work all the time!!!) and wont let her cigarette ashes spill to your books (this is in Pasadena, CA)
but however, she has this list of bookbinders all over america (there are like 75 members i think, all of whom do very nice special bookbinding) - do you think it will be useful if I could get the list and post it here ???
it will entail lots of typing (since im pretty sure they wont have a .doc file of it!!!!) but am ready to do it!!! - please let me know

Jun 14, 04 8:19 pm  · 
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David Zeibin

Despite the fact I'm in Canada, I think that would be really nice. You would be deserving of praise.

Jun 14, 04 8:31 pm  · 
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coquette

Office Depot brand 80 lb. matte finish premium color presentation paper worked great for me.
I had the requisite 45 minute conversation with the feller who ran a local hole-in-the-wall bindery. I was very specific and he did a great job. He showed me samples of new thick anodized aluminum spiral coils that were rad, but spendy.The regular wire coil looks chintzy and the glued binding is sloppy and not functional. Next time I would use white or clear plastic spiral coil (instead of the color that I used) because it is less distracting with the 1/2" white margins on the bound side. I struggled with the idea of a plastic coil initially, thinking it was cheezy and not organic, but it works really well (pages turn easily) will not fall apart and will allow your book to lay flat. Ask the binder specific questions before hand. they will tell you how thick your front and back cover should be in relation to the thickness of the pages. Don't use Kinko's unless you personally know someone who works there who can look after your shit, otherwise tell them before hand that you will not pay for it unless they follow your written directions specifically, and have them reiterate what they are going to do for you. Deal with just one person if possible.

Jun 14, 04 9:05 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

i spoke with the person whom i mentioned before (read above)....i can get the list of the 'Bookbinder's Guild' - it actually has members all over the world and their contact information, but will take me a while to get the information myself

but for now, you can go to http://talasonline.com/db/conservators_bookbinders.cfm

and search for bookbinders and conservators in your area. From the listings i saw, most of the entries were hi-dollar ones, but i think it will suffice for the time being, until i get the 'bindery-in-garage' listing

Jun 14, 04 10:07 pm  · 
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Pimp Minister Pete Nice

Thanks

Jun 15, 04 9:50 am  · 
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