Has anyone ever gone bankrupt? Especially after graduate school student loans. Is it true you can not get a dismissal of your private education loans with bankruptsy?
Nope. It's very, very hard to get rid of student loan debt through bankruptcy. In order to have them discharged, you need to prove that (apart and after relief from any other outstanding debt) your student loan burden is impossiblly burdensome. I just had a friend who declared bankruptcy after some 80K in Ivy League debt forced him to incurr other debts just to survive, and even after the bankruptcy he still has to pay off the loans that got him into the mess in the first place. Ugh.
bankruptcy will RUIN your credit rating in the future for other loans. not good for an architect if you're intending on having your own practice one day...
bankruptcy will have an effect on your rating, but after 6 years my score is in the prime area, so getting a mortgage should not be a problem. and it certainly is better to be bankrupt than to be on the brink of insanity. besides ask Petey Eisenman or FLW how many times they went that way.
Look at it this way- If you're considering bankruptcy, your credit is already RUINED. Bankruptcy is a safety-valve to stop the bleeding. Wealthy people do it all the time. The government has managed for decades to keep the average Joe (architect) in the dark about the benefits, that's why they've passes a recent bill to make it harder for Americans to get from under. I'd say do it if you've exhausted all other options, if you've stop counting your ulcers, continuous harrassing calls, etc. If your an Architect, you know it's going to take awhile to re-coop the dough. Get rid of ALL YOUR CREDIT CARDS. Pay with cash, or a Bank Card, keep on keepin on. Six years will go quickly.
although bankruptcy may ruin your personal credit rating, it need not bury your career as an architect. banks tend to distinguish between personal loans and business loans, so even if your personal credit rating is shot, you still might be able to get your practice of the ground if you have a sound business plan. of course, it would be very difficult to start a sole proprietorship this way, but partnering up with others can certainly help here. of course it would still be better to avoid bankruptcty altogether but in today's age of identity theft, you might get fucked even if you do maintain perfect credit.
and keep in mind that many successful people have declared bankruptcy. in fact, i read something recently that many successful entreprenuers suffered through two or three failures before uncovering all the pitfalls that can undermine success.
in other words, do what you have to do, and don't feel embarrassed about it.
when i consolidated my student loans, they would not consolidate my private loans with it. don't know if that is a 100% of the time thing, but i did try to get them to, and the wouldn't.
the creditors dealing with these loans have some degree of flexibility to help you if you ask them for it. they wont like it, but they would rather see your money eventually than not see it at all. you have to push them rather than them push you.
If you're gonna fo it, File for it before it's too late, the Feds are trying to take your ability to file for bankruptcy away. However, for those w/ McMansions & vacation houses - I'm sure there are plenty of loopholes to keep the goods.
i think that law was already passed and went into action this july 1st.
but as i understand it, you still have the ability to file and declare bankruptcy, but you can't have all your debts discharged and get of free and clear like you used to.
of course, it was the powerful lobby of the credit card companies that pushed this through. they obviously stand to recover a lot of money from abusive debtors who are now no longer able to hide under bankruptcy protection. i find this to be a bit annoying myself since the credit card companies (banks, really) should do a better job in evaluating customers as a potential credit risk. i still can't believe how large of a credit line they have extended me and i have spent nearly all of the past decade in school. how many minimum wage earners have been given a line of credit that they will never be able to pay off?
this law is really just another score for irresponsable interests of big business in that it allows them to financially crush the little people. they are little more than loan sharks these days.
Puddles,
Has it already taken effect? Them 'Repo-men' are too quick for me.
I get you when you equate the credit card co's. w/ loan-sharks, but it does also work both ways. We, as consumers have to keep our defenses up. Geesh, I finally walked through Ikea for the 1st time yesterday & I was totally drained 'cause I fought off buying all of that good stuff, cHEAP!! Really, I must've been the only person that didn't spend a dime there - I'm whack-O.
I will always be the last person to defend the BIG guy, but saying 'no' to purchases is a duty that we owe to ourselves. (That's why I'm a 'Moderate', I keep seeing both sides- keeps me up late at night, fer sher)
As for you all (YA'll) w/ student loan debt. Learn to appreciate it - how often do you get a chance to pay off so much principal for such a long time @ so little interest. If you default on that, shame on you - especially if you're an M.D., J.D. or especially, a Chiroquacktor, ummm, I mean D.C.
i agree with you on the student debt, it's certainly not a bad deal (especially considering that most interest rates top out at around 8.5% of something like that)
as for the bankruptcy issue, i also agree that we need to exercise some restraint as individuals, in fact, i am very much in favor of individual responsibility. but my point is that although many personal bankruptcy cases are the result of poor choices made by people buying more than they can afford. i also feel very strongly that banks and financial institutions have a fiduciary responsibility to extend credit wisely, for their own interests if nothing else. the old bankruptcy laws encouraged some restraint on the part of lenders by exposing the to the possibility of not recovering any of the money lent.
even so, they have still been pretty loose and fast in letting the money fly. under the new law, the borrower would still have to pay back what was borrowed and for someone near minimum wage, this will leave them saddled with debt indefinitely, unable to learn from their mistakes even if they are savy enough to figure out what happened to them. all of this only reinforces the idea of a low-wage earning permanently indebted peasant (slave?) class of americans. certainly not in accord with bush's idea of an "ownership" socieity, unless he is talking about corporations owning citizens.
Yeah, do what the suture says, talk to a pro. You're getting a lot of info from the Arch field, here - we're known for financial prowess as a group. I liked the reference to FLW & Eisenman abt. financial trouble - I'll add john Portman to that list (although not in the same Arch't calibre, fe sher). Any other examples of well-known Arch'ts who just had trouble paying the bills. You're in good company.
Stillframe,
W/ regard to payback periods: I guess it depends on your particular loan.
I would sit down w/ your lender & look at options - there are always options, but there will be costs, as well. Nonetheless, it is in your creditor's interest to work w/ you, because bankruptcy will cut their chances of making money, or even getting principal back to nil. Still, Stillframe, even if money's really tight, don't go the bankruptcy route. Talk to the pro, work out a managable payment structure & go with it. Meanwhile, try to pull in as much income as you can & stay away from Ikea.
As Puddles was saying, we live in a society that bases it's economic system on driving consumer spending, and EXPECIALLY, consumer debt. Thereby destroying the individual's finances. This, in the long-term, will cause our nation to have yet another economic crisis based on our mantra of 'bigger-better-more-more'. Until, as a nation, we learn to live this cliche "Work to Live, not Live to Work", we will be a nation that eventually drops dead of one big cardiac arrest.
My dad (engineer, not doctor) went to school with a bunch of doctors... all of whom declared bankruptcy after med school just to get rid of the loans and start getting fat with cash as doctors do... Apparently you can't do that anymore though because bankruptcy doesn't apply to school loans. I guess you could always get a bunch of credit cards, pay off your loans with those suckers then declare bankruptcy on that. Heh heh heh. Sneaky but even my dad admitted it can probably be done... "only as a last resort" as he said, of course.
That only further confirms my belief that MDs & the like are the biggest scam-artists ever. Kinda gives a different perspective on why healthcare costs are ridiculous. Maybe not because of student loan defaults, but rather the way MDs know how to milk the system. It's also interesting how MDs manage to be the poor victims of the evil insurance companies (which ARE evil). They manage to do this so much that the real reason for healthcare in the first place, the patient/users, gets the least benefit of 'the system.'
GGGGrrrrr!!!!!!!! We work 10x as much as MDs & yet we probably default less & most definitely get paid less. GGGGrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!
...& don't anybody go & say "Yeah, but they save lives". No they don't , they suck, sUcK, SUCKKK!!!!!
OK, I'm gonna go do some Yoga or something now. But I definitely ain't going to see a 'doctor' because all they ever do is tell you to take a muscle relaxer, prozac, or some other druug developed by who? Doctors dammittt!!!! Quit drinking, gorging & smoking - who needs a 'doctor' for that??? Duh!!!
bankruptsy
Has anyone ever gone bankrupt? Especially after graduate school student loans. Is it true you can not get a dismissal of your private education loans with bankruptsy?
uh, bankruptcy--oohps.
Nope. It's very, very hard to get rid of student loan debt through bankruptcy. In order to have them discharged, you need to prove that (apart and after relief from any other outstanding debt) your student loan burden is impossiblly burdensome. I just had a friend who declared bankruptcy after some 80K in Ivy League debt forced him to incurr other debts just to survive, and even after the bankruptcy he still has to pay off the loans that got him into the mess in the first place. Ugh.
Wow, thank you. What a mess. Do you now if one can consolidate private student loans?
bankruptcy will RUIN your credit rating in the future for other loans. not good for an architect if you're intending on having your own practice one day...
try to keep your head above water. good luck.
bankruptcy will have an effect on your rating, but after 6 years my score is in the prime area, so getting a mortgage should not be a problem. and it certainly is better to be bankrupt than to be on the brink of insanity. besides ask Petey Eisenman or FLW how many times they went that way.
Look at it this way- If you're considering bankruptcy, your credit is already RUINED. Bankruptcy is a safety-valve to stop the bleeding. Wealthy people do it all the time. The government has managed for decades to keep the average Joe (architect) in the dark about the benefits, that's why they've passes a recent bill to make it harder for Americans to get from under. I'd say do it if you've exhausted all other options, if you've stop counting your ulcers, continuous harrassing calls, etc. If your an Architect, you know it's going to take awhile to re-coop the dough. Get rid of ALL YOUR CREDIT CARDS. Pay with cash, or a Bank Card, keep on keepin on. Six years will go quickly.
although bankruptcy may ruin your personal credit rating, it need not bury your career as an architect. banks tend to distinguish between personal loans and business loans, so even if your personal credit rating is shot, you still might be able to get your practice of the ground if you have a sound business plan. of course, it would be very difficult to start a sole proprietorship this way, but partnering up with others can certainly help here. of course it would still be better to avoid bankruptcty altogether but in today's age of identity theft, you might get fucked even if you do maintain perfect credit.
and keep in mind that many successful people have declared bankruptcy. in fact, i read something recently that many successful entreprenuers suffered through two or three failures before uncovering all the pitfalls that can undermine success.
in other words, do what you have to do, and don't feel embarrassed about it.
Thanks, I feel more assured. Is it true that Student private loans (120k) are not dissmissable under bankruptcy?
What about the consolidation? Does anyone know about the possibilities with that?
Thanks
when i consolidated my student loans, they would not consolidate my private loans with it. don't know if that is a 100% of the time thing, but i did try to get them to, and the wouldn't.
the creditors dealing with these loans have some degree of flexibility to help you if you ask them for it. they wont like it, but they would rather see your money eventually than not see it at all. you have to push them rather than them push you.
pip go see an attorney, private loans may be discharged, you'll never know if you rely on our personal experiences...go ask a professional.
excellent advice betadinesutures
i'll second that, see a professional
If you're gonna fo it, File for it before it's too late, the Feds are trying to take your ability to file for bankruptcy away. However, for those w/ McMansions & vacation houses - I'm sure there are plenty of loopholes to keep the goods.
mystery man,
i think that law was already passed and went into action this july 1st.
but as i understand it, you still have the ability to file and declare bankruptcy, but you can't have all your debts discharged and get of free and clear like you used to.
of course, it was the powerful lobby of the credit card companies that pushed this through. they obviously stand to recover a lot of money from abusive debtors who are now no longer able to hide under bankruptcy protection. i find this to be a bit annoying myself since the credit card companies (banks, really) should do a better job in evaluating customers as a potential credit risk. i still can't believe how large of a credit line they have extended me and i have spent nearly all of the past decade in school. how many minimum wage earners have been given a line of credit that they will never be able to pay off?
this law is really just another score for irresponsable interests of big business in that it allows them to financially crush the little people. they are little more than loan sharks these days.
Puddles,
Has it already taken effect? Them 'Repo-men' are too quick for me.
I get you when you equate the credit card co's. w/ loan-sharks, but it does also work both ways. We, as consumers have to keep our defenses up. Geesh, I finally walked through Ikea for the 1st time yesterday & I was totally drained 'cause I fought off buying all of that good stuff, cHEAP!! Really, I must've been the only person that didn't spend a dime there - I'm whack-O.
I will always be the last person to defend the BIG guy, but saying 'no' to purchases is a duty that we owe to ourselves. (That's why I'm a 'Moderate', I keep seeing both sides- keeps me up late at night, fer sher)
As for you all (YA'll) w/ student loan debt. Learn to appreciate it - how often do you get a chance to pay off so much principal for such a long time @ so little interest. If you default on that, shame on you - especially if you're an M.D., J.D. or especially, a Chiroquacktor, ummm, I mean D.C.
mystery man,
i agree with you on the student debt, it's certainly not a bad deal (especially considering that most interest rates top out at around 8.5% of something like that)
as for the bankruptcy issue, i also agree that we need to exercise some restraint as individuals, in fact, i am very much in favor of individual responsibility. but my point is that although many personal bankruptcy cases are the result of poor choices made by people buying more than they can afford. i also feel very strongly that banks and financial institutions have a fiduciary responsibility to extend credit wisely, for their own interests if nothing else. the old bankruptcy laws encouraged some restraint on the part of lenders by exposing the to the possibility of not recovering any of the money lent.
even so, they have still been pretty loose and fast in letting the money fly. under the new law, the borrower would still have to pay back what was borrowed and for someone near minimum wage, this will leave them saddled with debt indefinitely, unable to learn from their mistakes even if they are savy enough to figure out what happened to them. all of this only reinforces the idea of a low-wage earning permanently indebted peasant (slave?) class of americans. certainly not in accord with bush's idea of an "ownership" socieity, unless he is talking about corporations owning citizens.
Thank you betadinesutures, I will definately consult a professional, if it comes to that. I am hoping that it won't.
But Mystery Man do you really have such a long time to pay it back, if you can't consolidate? How long?
do it anyway consulting a pro should not cost you anything and you might just have your fears put to rest.
Yeah, do what the suture says, talk to a pro. You're getting a lot of info from the Arch field, here - we're known for financial prowess as a group. I liked the reference to FLW & Eisenman abt. financial trouble - I'll add john Portman to that list (although not in the same Arch't calibre, fe sher). Any other examples of well-known Arch'ts who just had trouble paying the bills. You're in good company.
Stillframe,
W/ regard to payback periods: I guess it depends on your particular loan.
I would sit down w/ your lender & look at options - there are always options, but there will be costs, as well. Nonetheless, it is in your creditor's interest to work w/ you, because bankruptcy will cut their chances of making money, or even getting principal back to nil. Still, Stillframe, even if money's really tight, don't go the bankruptcy route. Talk to the pro, work out a managable payment structure & go with it. Meanwhile, try to pull in as much income as you can & stay away from Ikea.
As Puddles was saying, we live in a society that bases it's economic system on driving consumer spending, and EXPECIALLY, consumer debt. Thereby destroying the individual's finances. This, in the long-term, will cause our nation to have yet another economic crisis based on our mantra of 'bigger-better-more-more'. Until, as a nation, we learn to live this cliche "Work to Live, not Live to Work", we will be a nation that eventually drops dead of one big cardiac arrest.
Good Luck, amigo.
Also, be careful not to default. A lot of places will hinder registration due to default on govt. loans. Not sure about private ones, though.
My dad (engineer, not doctor) went to school with a bunch of doctors... all of whom declared bankruptcy after med school just to get rid of the loans and start getting fat with cash as doctors do... Apparently you can't do that anymore though because bankruptcy doesn't apply to school loans. I guess you could always get a bunch of credit cards, pay off your loans with those suckers then declare bankruptcy on that. Heh heh heh. Sneaky but even my dad admitted it can probably be done... "only as a last resort" as he said, of course.
That only further confirms my belief that MDs & the like are the biggest scam-artists ever. Kinda gives a different perspective on why healthcare costs are ridiculous. Maybe not because of student loan defaults, but rather the way MDs know how to milk the system. It's also interesting how MDs manage to be the poor victims of the evil insurance companies (which ARE evil). They manage to do this so much that the real reason for healthcare in the first place, the patient/users, gets the least benefit of 'the system.'
GGGGrrrrr!!!!!!!! We work 10x as much as MDs & yet we probably default less & most definitely get paid less. GGGGrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!
...& don't anybody go & say "Yeah, but they save lives". No they don't , they suck, sUcK, SUCKKK!!!!!
OK, I'm gonna go do some Yoga or something now. But I definitely ain't going to see a 'doctor' because all they ever do is tell you to take a muscle relaxer, prozac, or some other druug developed by who? Doctors dammittt!!!! Quit drinking, gorging & smoking - who needs a 'doctor' for that??? Duh!!!
Dammmitt, dammitt, dammit.
MysteryMan, it's true that the system sucks, but if it makes you feel better, I agree with the way you spell ya'll.
Ya'll Rock! Big Bell!
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