What is your thoughts on the SOM designed (via David Childs) "New Freedom Tower", not to skew your thoughts but if this is what we are suppose to get for the new symbol of American Architecture, a monument to an idea or spirit, than I think this falls terribly short of anything that we can have an emotional attachment to, it is more a typical example of politically motivated, watered down, American architecture that lacks balls.
As much as I despise Danny, this "childs'-phallus" is the most hideous thing ever. I may even venture to say that Donald Trump's recreation of the old towers are a better solution. What the hell is Pataki/Childs thinking? Your last sentence says it all!
"more a typical example of politically motivated, watered down, American architecture that lacks balls"
There should be a public revolt, maybe even Archinect t-shirts made up in protest!
Good to see that the most important project this side of the new millenium has evolved into complete mediocrity. David Childs and SOM completely suck. They blew it. If we wanted an obelisk we could just go steal one from Egypt like all the imperial powers used to. The only freedom this represents is the freedom of a developer and politicians to completely deny the public of architecture with any substance, quality, or meaning. However, on the flip side, it does look like that antena can pick up am radio from Southeast Asia.
It's not surprising that the tower looks so bland. I'm sure David Childs looked long and hard to find someone else's design who wouldn't sue him. Of course it's not going to be unique, reference the master plan or possess any experiencial nature. That would involve designing in process, having an idea, experimentation. Why do that when you can just go to Yale and sit on a crit. To escape lawsuit Childs would have to look somewhere else for inspiration this time. This time he looked to the toy industry. As he states the building looks like a symetrical "Top". The most published platform for architecture in america is designed after a toddlers toy.
expectations can't be high enough. What else will force the masses to embrace new creativity. I never heard of a building that had high expectations so they built the same thing that everyone is accustomed to seeing. We can't falter now.
I don't really think that the expectations are to high, I think as Americans we expect to little. We have been conditioned to want more but expect less, build less, design less...we all want more but with the nature of the beast we lower our expectations...but with that said, this is not only a tragic event, but has become a highly political and public event, and in turn ground zero has become mystified. And we should expect something great. what we are given is (for lack of flowering this up with a bunch of architectural terms) CRAP...I have seen better privite building commisions, this should be treated more than just a mere office building. It should be looked upon as a monument to an emotional spirit of the people.
I think my favorite line in that whole article is this quote:
"But it has been decided that the spire will bring the tower's over-all height to 1,776 feet, the symbolically patriotic height proposed by Mr. Libeskind and insisted upon by Governor Pataki."
It seems to epitomize American thought: Give the public a very simple, easy to understand idea and anything else that happens around it is irrelevant. Who cares about the turbines? Who cares about the buildings sleek outward expression? Who care’s about the building being an icon of American architecture.
i still feel like they need to get away from the idea of a tower altogether. 2.6 million square feet/60 floors of office space is way too much. who in the hell is going to want to be a sitting duck on a site the has a history of being attacked? especially as we keep insisiting on arousing anti-american sentiment with our actions overseas.
i suppose that the good thing, if you could call it that, is that the Freedom Tower will probably only last a few years before somebody decides to blow it up again. who knows, maybe it will even be libeskind pulling some kind of howard roark business.
"...the new tower with a hillion-billion square acres of commercial space is poetically and symbolically pooing into the footprints of the old towers and there-by pooing on those who died..."
Supposedly you can email the HR dept. at SOM to voice your complaints. That's just what I heard anyway. Not sure where else to send them. Probably a good idea to email Bloomberg and Pataki too.
here is a list of those involved...it was published in the Fact Sheet on www.renewnyc.com (so i got it off a public website!)
David M. Childs, FAIA Design Partner
T.J. Gottesdiener, FAIA Managing Partner
Carl Galioto, FAIA Technical Partner
Kenneth A. Lewis, RA Project Manager
Jeffrey D. Holmes, AIA Senior Designer
Reiner Bagnato, AIA Senior Technical Architect
and yes, i agree...Bloomberg and Pataki should be emailed as well...though really, Pataki is leading this ridiculous buiding.
awcnpo qh hvquoir....
sorry, it's hard to type when tears are pouring out of your eyes on to the keyboard.
the saddest thing is that after all the bs that's happened and all the time it's taken to "get" here, i suspect that this awful piece of crap may slip through and get built without much design change because the public is just getting too tired to fight it any more. hell, i live in new york, care about design with such fervent passion that it's almost gross, and even i'm getting tired..
with that said, we still have to keep fighting. don't just talk about it, write those letters to pataki/bloomberg/lmdc... hopefully it'll make a difference.
but personally, i still wouldn't prefer the 'rebult twin towers' scheme (calling it trump's is sick though), even to this pile of junk. that's just me though.
There HAS to be something we can do to stop those goons from going ahead with this monstrosity!! YUCKHHH! heterarchy- you cry...I feel like BARFING all over the place!
okay, I'll just copy/paste my as usual sarcastic and provocative comment from the other thread:
I don't see how this could cheer up the US citizen nor the rest of the world. Not at all the image of freedom. More the image of total-resignation-towards-modern-capitalism-dom.
But hey, they said french could be replaced by freedom, not american!
nope, there is nothing you can do to stop this process. too much money has been spent. too many "important" ppl have given the nod. and the rest of the ppl just don't have the power, gumption, concern, or knowledge to effect the decision.
Where would you like me to start? The form, materiality, its disconnection to the context, or the fact that is a twisted rectangle with an antena on top? Or maybe we could talk about the only thing they can talk about is applied titanium panels that reflect, absorb, and transmit light. That is a load of bull to cover up a design that lacks any form of process, thought, and concern. Anyone can do what they did. The worst student in any of my design studios could have come up with that by 9pm and gone home for a full nights sleep. Please. Ehy don't you CalebRichers tell me what is good about it.
i think it is a simplified improvement on the last attempts, a monsterouse collaboration between a avant-garde and corperate whore...any collaboration is a comprimised mess. this at least i looks like a cohearent whole....a mirror and modern version of the empire state...another building that could be sited anywhere. this is replaceing two identical towers...not exactley design excellence...the first attempt by liebskind was doomed from the start...a architect of his caliber could never handle a project of this scope...the collaboration was sickening....trumps was laughable and a publicity stunt...this is at least an improvement on the previouse.... this should not be considered a memorial...the footprints are for that.
As an architect and as a New York resident, I felt compelled to write you and voice my EXTREME dissatisfaction with the most recent "design" iteration of the WTC site. It's by far the worst proposal since the very first designs. I know that by now, you're getting tired of listening to complaints, and that it must seem to you that NOTHING will please anyone, but that doesn't excuse you or the rest of those involved with the design of the "Freedom" tower from the responsibility of creating something that is worthy of that name. I understand the difficulty inherent in the process, but there is still opportunity there as well. An opportunity to make an enduring statement - that freedom by and for the people is more important than money, bureaucracy, politics or individual egos. That there is a soaring, heart-felt beauty that is powerfully manifest in the concept of freedom. The current design is merely a totem for everything in America that ISN'T free. I sincerely hope that you will look inside yourself and around you, and demand something much better for the American people.
caleb: i think that the vague crits are the result of the design being so obviously awful that no specific complaints are even neccessary, and perhaps more importantly, that the 'design' seems to have aimed to be so bland and mediocre that it wouldn't allow for any specific thoughts on it whatsoever. in other words, there's really no 'design' there TO critique.
the building, in the context of its history, is the most powerful example of the complete sterilization and dehumanization of architectural design at the hands of beaurocracy and economy that i've ever seen. is that specific enough?
well enough of the archispeak about context and blah blah blah...the avg. joe's i've asked...with none of our bs pretensions seem to like it as a "simple, somber, design which won't detract from the pain and suffering experienced on the site, yet show lifes continouse"
If you all will remember, the very first masterplans by Beyer Blinder Belle were overwhelmingly rejected by the public. Of course keep in mind it was a masterplanning effort, not architectural. But there is a striking resemblence to the place holder "freedom tower" in the master plan concept "Memorial Plaza" with the latest designs for Child's freedom tower (spire included!).... see link here to refresh your minds, check out the slide show:
Glad we're getting a place holder pillar memorial marker in the sky...and just a side note: these guys at Beyer Blinder Belle must be frickin' genius...they at least saw what would end up here when the process started a few years ago....brilliant!
What a bastard Child this tower has become. It is as if they had mashed up a page from the Ceasar Pelli book and one from Sullivan. I can just about hear David spouting off about how classical yet bold the “design†is: 1) it has a base, a body and a head and 2) it tapers and has facets like every tower in Beijing and the middle east does.
What a horrendous building. It looks like a perfume bottle that was put atop a box and skewered with a toothpick.
Sad day for Architecture. This pretty much cements the David Childs ‘legacy.â€
this whole thing was flawed from the beginning, but keeps sliding further downhill...
at least the original design had an optimistic agenda and relative 'lightness' to it (wind turbines/lattice crown/twisting profile). instead it seems like our utopian future will be condemned to a dystopian fear of the 'worst case scenario'. instead of being politically more diplomatic, we can just retreat to our bunkers and accept hegemony and fear.
i can't help but compare this to the agendas of US embassies worldwide within the last 50 years. instead of the lightness we once saw, we now need to resort to building fortresses with enormous setbacks, thick walls and minimal windows. the faults of our political policies are invading our cities and personal spaces.
The SOM "Freedom Tower" embarrassment
What is your thoughts on the SOM designed (via David Childs) "New Freedom Tower", not to skew your thoughts but if this is what we are suppose to get for the new symbol of American Architecture, a monument to an idea or spirit, than I think this falls terribly short of anything that we can have an emotional attachment to, it is more a typical example of politically motivated, watered down, American architecture that lacks balls.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/29/wtc.tower.redesign/index.html
totally agree. I couldn't be more dissappointed by it. Just sad
As much as I despise Danny, this "childs'-phallus" is the most hideous thing ever. I may even venture to say that Donald Trump's recreation of the old towers are a better solution. What the hell is Pataki/Childs thinking? Your last sentence says it all!
"more a typical example of politically motivated, watered down, American architecture that lacks balls"
There should be a public revolt, maybe even Archinect t-shirts made up in protest!
are we going to go with this thread? my head will explode if you're going to have two on the same topic.....
It lacks balls but has a big p....jajajaj completly horrible!!!
Good to see that the most important project this side of the new millenium has evolved into complete mediocrity. David Childs and SOM completely suck. They blew it. If we wanted an obelisk we could just go steal one from Egypt like all the imperial powers used to. The only freedom this represents is the freedom of a developer and politicians to completely deny the public of architecture with any substance, quality, or meaning. However, on the flip side, it does look like that antena can pick up am radio from Southeast Asia.
can WE as the public do anything at this time? I'm being serious...this bldg. CANNOT be built!!!
Just seems overwhelmingly boring. But I never saw a WTC design that I liked. The expectations are just too high.
It's not surprising that the tower looks so bland. I'm sure David Childs looked long and hard to find someone else's design who wouldn't sue him. Of course it's not going to be unique, reference the master plan or possess any experiencial nature. That would involve designing in process, having an idea, experimentation. Why do that when you can just go to Yale and sit on a crit. To escape lawsuit Childs would have to look somewhere else for inspiration this time. This time he looked to the toy industry. As he states the building looks like a symetrical "Top". The most published platform for architecture in america is designed after a toddlers toy.
expectations can't be high enough. What else will force the masses to embrace new creativity. I never heard of a building that had high expectations so they built the same thing that everyone is accustomed to seeing. We can't falter now.
I don't really think that the expectations are to high, I think as Americans we expect to little. We have been conditioned to want more but expect less, build less, design less...we all want more but with the nature of the beast we lower our expectations...but with that said, this is not only a tragic event, but has become a highly political and public event, and in turn ground zero has become mystified. And we should expect something great. what we are given is (for lack of flowering this up with a bunch of architectural terms) CRAP...I have seen better privite building commisions, this should be treated more than just a mere office building. It should be looked upon as a monument to an emotional spirit of the people.
I think my favorite line in that whole article is this quote:
"But it has been decided that the spire will bring the tower's over-all height to 1,776 feet, the symbolically patriotic height proposed by Mr. Libeskind and insisted upon by Governor Pataki."
It seems to epitomize American thought: Give the public a very simple, easy to understand idea and anything else that happens around it is irrelevant. Who cares about the turbines? Who cares about the buildings sleek outward expression? Who care’s about the building being an icon of American architecture.
I'm utterly embarrassed.
referencing the torch of the Statue of Liberty. Empty words with no realization.......looks more like it's referencing a "Scud missile"
Maybe the T shirt should have the building as a missile lifting off towards the desert
i still feel like they need to get away from the idea of a tower altogether. 2.6 million square feet/60 floors of office space is way too much. who in the hell is going to want to be a sitting duck on a site the has a history of being attacked? especially as we keep insisiting on arousing anti-american sentiment with our actions overseas.
i suppose that the good thing, if you could call it that, is that the Freedom Tower will probably only last a few years before somebody decides to blow it up again. who knows, maybe it will even be libeskind pulling some kind of howard roark business.
Who would dare build a high profile building without making it the tallest building in the world. What a lame goal.
Oh, and seeing the other pictures (esp. the renderings from afar) I agree that this is a real disgrace to architecture and...gasp...America.
time to call in Herbie... Muschamp.
do we have an email address for mr. childs? i want to email him this thread.
Childs is such a disappointment. I can't imagine anything more common for this site, more un-extraordinary. What a waste of time.
That Smell? The Freedom Tower...
oh, i thought that smell was the sewer.
"...the new tower with a hillion-billion square acres of commercial space is poetically and symbolically pooing into the footprints of the old towers and there-by pooing on those who died..."
well, that's what the article should say...
Supposedly you can email the HR dept. at SOM to voice your complaints. That's just what I heard anyway. Not sure where else to send them. Probably a good idea to email Bloomberg and Pataki too.
WonderK...i'm on it
here is a list of those involved...it was published in the Fact Sheet on www.renewnyc.com (so i got it off a public website!)
David M. Childs, FAIA Design Partner
T.J. Gottesdiener, FAIA Managing Partner
Carl Galioto, FAIA Technical Partner
Kenneth A. Lewis, RA Project Manager
Jeffrey D. Holmes, AIA Senior Designer
Reiner Bagnato, AIA Senior Technical Architect
and yes, i agree...Bloomberg and Pataki should be emailed as well...though really, Pataki is leading this ridiculous buiding.
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg
City Hall
New York, NY 10007
PHONE 311 (or 212-NEW-YORK outside NYC)
FAX (212) 788-2460
E-MAIL:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html
Governor George E. Pataki
State Capitol
Albany, NY 12224
518-474-8390
E-MAIL:
http://www.state.ny.us/governor/
and lets not forget the creator of the tower
David Childs: of course no email address, but the suggestion of going through the main SOM e-mail is brilliant
SOM/New York
14 Wall Street
24th Floor
New York, NY 10005
USA
p 212.298.9300
f 212.298.9500
[email protected]
is their general email. Someone try [email protected] or [email protected]
It's one of those
overload their system
awcnpo qh hvquoir....
sorry, it's hard to type when tears are pouring out of your eyes on to the keyboard.
the saddest thing is that after all the bs that's happened and all the time it's taken to "get" here, i suspect that this awful piece of crap may slip through and get built without much design change because the public is just getting too tired to fight it any more. hell, i live in new york, care about design with such fervent passion that it's almost gross, and even i'm getting tired..
with that said, we still have to keep fighting. don't just talk about it, write those letters to pataki/bloomberg/lmdc... hopefully it'll make a difference.
but personally, i still wouldn't prefer the 'rebult twin towers' scheme (calling it trump's is sick though), even to this pile of junk. that's just me though.
There HAS to be something we can do to stop those goons from going ahead with this monstrosity!! YUCKHHH! heterarchy- you cry...I feel like BARFING all over the place!
could u people be any more vague in your crits?
That building could be anywhere, and built anytime in the last twenty years.
What is your problem, do you work for som?
okay, I'll just copy/paste my as usual sarcastic and provocative comment from the other thread:
I don't see how this could cheer up the US citizen nor the rest of the world. Not at all the image of freedom. More the image of total-resignation-towards-modern-capitalism-dom.
But hey, they said french could be replaced by freedom, not american!
Caleb - "could u people be any more vague in your crits?"
why waste our time on elaborating on our emotions, it is CRAP, it does not deserve any elaboration....crap, i am starting to elaborate.
nope, there is nothing you can do to stop this process. too much money has been spent. too many "important" ppl have given the nod. and the rest of the ppl just don't have the power, gumption, concern, or knowledge to effect the decision.
Where would you like me to start? The form, materiality, its disconnection to the context, or the fact that is a twisted rectangle with an antena on top? Or maybe we could talk about the only thing they can talk about is applied titanium panels that reflect, absorb, and transmit light. That is a load of bull to cover up a design that lacks any form of process, thought, and concern. Anyone can do what they did. The worst student in any of my design studios could have come up with that by 9pm and gone home for a full nights sleep. Please. Ehy don't you CalebRichers tell me what is good about it.
i think it is a simplified improvement on the last attempts, a monsterouse collaboration between a avant-garde and corperate whore...any collaboration is a comprimised mess. this at least i looks like a cohearent whole....a mirror and modern version of the empire state...another building that could be sited anywhere. this is replaceing two identical towers...not exactley design excellence...the first attempt by liebskind was doomed from the start...a architect of his caliber could never handle a project of this scope...the collaboration was sickening....trumps was laughable and a publicity stunt...this is at least an improvement on the previouse.... this should not be considered a memorial...the footprints are for that.
personally i liked foster's submision
here's what i'm emailing...
As an architect and as a New York resident, I felt compelled to write you and voice my EXTREME dissatisfaction with the most recent "design" iteration of the WTC site. It's by far the worst proposal since the very first designs. I know that by now, you're getting tired of listening to complaints, and that it must seem to you that NOTHING will please anyone, but that doesn't excuse you or the rest of those involved with the design of the "Freedom" tower from the responsibility of creating something that is worthy of that name. I understand the difficulty inherent in the process, but there is still opportunity there as well. An opportunity to make an enduring statement - that freedom by and for the people is more important than money, bureaucracy, politics or individual egos. That there is a soaring, heart-felt beauty that is powerfully manifest in the concept of freedom. The current design is merely a totem for everything in America that ISN'T free. I sincerely hope that you will look inside yourself and around you, and demand something much better for the American people.
caleb: i think that the vague crits are the result of the design being so obviously awful that no specific complaints are even neccessary, and perhaps more importantly, that the 'design' seems to have aimed to be so bland and mediocre that it wouldn't allow for any specific thoughts on it whatsoever. in other words, there's really no 'design' there TO critique.
the building, in the context of its history, is the most powerful example of the complete sterilization and dehumanization of architectural design at the hands of beaurocracy and economy that i've ever seen. is that specific enough?
*honk!*
I have a image on my hard drive I need to post here, can anyone help?
well enough of the archispeak about context and blah blah blah...the avg. joe's i've asked...with none of our bs pretensions seem to like it as a "simple, somber, design which won't detract from the pain and suffering experienced on the site, yet show lifes continouse"
If you all will remember, the very first masterplans by Beyer Blinder Belle were overwhelmingly rejected by the public. Of course keep in mind it was a masterplanning effort, not architectural. But there is a striking resemblence to the place holder "freedom tower" in the master plan concept "Memorial Plaza" with the latest designs for Child's freedom tower (spire included!).... see link here to refresh your minds, check out the slide show:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sacred/designs/prelim.html
Glad we're getting a place holder pillar memorial marker in the sky...and just a side note: these guys at Beyer Blinder Belle must be frickin' genius...they at least saw what would end up here when the process started a few years ago....brilliant!
I like it more than I did I.M. Pei's WTC towers...
I don't find it all that engaging though. It's certainly not any better (or worse) than any of the previous uninspired and boring proposals I've seen.
it looks like a friggin award for best daytime tv series or some other crap show
What a bastard Child this tower has become. It is as if they had mashed up a page from the Ceasar Pelli book and one from Sullivan. I can just about hear David spouting off about how classical yet bold the “design†is: 1) it has a base, a body and a head and 2) it tapers and has facets like every tower in Beijing and the middle east does.
What a horrendous building. It looks like a perfume bottle that was put atop a box and skewered with a toothpick.
Sad day for Architecture. This pretty much cements the David Childs ‘legacy.â€
good show Dr. J
back to the future
DrJekyll, good call on that BBB analogy. A place holder in the sky, indeed.
enjoy
this whole thing was flawed from the beginning, but keeps sliding further downhill...
at least the original design had an optimistic agenda and relative 'lightness' to it (wind turbines/lattice crown/twisting profile). instead it seems like our utopian future will be condemned to a dystopian fear of the 'worst case scenario'. instead of being politically more diplomatic, we can just retreat to our bunkers and accept hegemony and fear.
i can't help but compare this to the agendas of US embassies worldwide within the last 50 years. instead of the lightness we once saw, we now need to resort to building fortresses with enormous setbacks, thick walls and minimal windows. the faults of our political policies are invading our cities and personal spaces.
i'm moving to scandinavia.
as far as contect/site have you looked around, all those pelli buildings, pretty symetrical, predictable, this one should blend in nicely
a skyscraper will always be a place holder in the sky, a phalus of industry/capitalism
now if they were building over the old footprints...then there would be reason for outrage
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