Since when do Police Departments have design standards for buidlings?
Fact is, if someone really wants to wreck something (be it a window pane to break into your house, or a 747 to topple a high-rise), given enough planning and resources, it will happen.
That's not to say we shouldn't use forethought to identify security issues in our buildings, but, avoiding terrorist threats through the design of a building - that's a pretty tough standard.
I'm not too bothered by the police raising issues - but yes, where were you guys 2 years ago? I saw Libeskind lecture a couple months ago, and he seems to have resigned his fighting to the 1776 number, the atrium at the top, and the fact that it twists to emulate the movement of the Statue of Liberty. If it moves back from the street a little so be it. This is what troubles me, "I have no doubt that David Childs will come up with yet another magnificent new design." They are really doing anything they can in their power to keep Libeskind from designing and putting his name on this building.
There existed an opportunity with the rebuilding of the WTC to create a building that would become the defining architectural work of the twenty first century. It could have been a true monument to those who died there and a real marvel of human ingenuity. It could have risen above the level of being a symbol of greed and commercialism (which is what lead WTC 1 to be a target) and instead become a place of inspiration to people the world over. It could have helped redefine America’s tarnished image throughout the rest of the world, just as the original skyscrapers 100 years earlier had helped the US gain respect as a financial player.
Even though Libeskind and other competition entrants addressed these issues in their designs, it seems that the new WTC has been doomed to banality basically from day one. The bureaucratic wrangling, the special interests, Childs’ incompetence, and the insistence that the program be driven principally by for-profit motives, have robbed the design of any remarkable qualities. It seems that the new WTC is on its way to becoming a symbol of America’s indignant self-righteousness and growing irrelevance on the world stage. Even worse is that it does not seem that it will be a particularly moving memorial to those who died.
Why should architecture move forward if nothing else moves forward? Architecture reflects the needs of the people regardless of "a vision" from one. Architecture will change, but not through this project, rather through this experience.
and you are transparent...but really, I never intended my comment to be deep nor meaningful, and I never claimed to be rich in thought.
my comment is a simple prophetic statement regarding the obvious. There is nothing to debate with my statement...besides ego.
I have heard from a source well placed in the LMDC that this has nothing to do with security issues but instead Pataki and Bloomberg are trying to break up the Childs/Silverstein alliance.
I am not sure why they would be doing this but Pataki and Childs never saw eye to eye and Pataki always preferred Libeskinds plan to SOM's so maybe he is looking to replace Childs?
Freedom Tower: NY Gov. Pataki says "Redesign" (David Shuster)
Two nights ago, shortly after writing in this space about the latest debacles surrounding the Freedom Tower, my inbox got jammed with e-mails from hundreds of you expressing your rage and indignation at New York Governor George Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and Ground Zero developer Larry Silverstein. Nearly all of you wrote that the Freedom Tower is an embarassment and that America wants the Twin Towers back.
Jeff wrote that rebuilding them would be "a design for the ages, simultaneously telling future generations the story of 9-11 and of America's determination." Sean wrote, "It is shameful that the Twin Towers were not rebuilt immediately." Damir wrote that the newer, safer, stronger Twin Towers, "would illustrate such a powerful American spirit. Man, I get emotional just thinking about it." Maureen wrote about the absence of the Twin Towers and said, "my heart aches... for what the image of America has become."
Many of you asked what you could do to change things. Tonight, for a moment, it seemed part of the battle had been won. I received a call from a friend at another broadcast organization who said, "Did you hear the news? Governor Pataki just announced the Freedom Tower project has been suspended." It sounded like the entire Freedom Tower project was being shelved and that common sense and political smarts had finally entered Governor Pataki's mind.
I should have known better. When I finally reached a computer, the AP headline was, "New York Governor: Freedom Tower must be redesigned because of security concerns." The article went on to say that Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein met at Pataki's Manhattan office late this afternoon. While details of their meeting were not released, the trio supposedly addressed a NYPD report last week which found that the location in the pit where the Freedom Tower is planned is too close to two major thoroughfares (and would therefore be vulnerable to truck bombs). The Pataki quote tonight was, "We believe that a building that meets the NYPD standards can be built consistent with architect Daniel Liebeskind's master site plan." In other words, Pataki and co. think the "problem" with the Freedom Tower can be solved by building the tower in a different part of Ground Zero.
Hello? Earth to Governor Pataki. You can't place the building in a different location. The entire area has to be redesigned. Remember, the site includes the footprints of the Twin Towers that were destroyed, a memorial area, and part of the original pit. In addition, there are "line of sight" issues with the Statue of Liberty. Everybody in New York knows this. Almost everybody also knows the reason most Americans hate the Freedom Tower is because it bears no resemblance to the Twin Towers. The issue is simple: If the Freedom Tower is on the table, the terrorists win. Why? Because holding on to Governor Pataki's Freedom Tower means America's enemies will have a gaping hole in New York to admire for at least another five years. Then, assuming the tower actually gets built in 5 years (want to bet?) America will unveil a "feeble tower." Why "feeble?" Because in this bizarre windmill/birdcage topped building... human beings will only be able to go as high as the 75th floor. That's right. The building may technically reach 1,776 feet... but that's counting the contraption on top (something that engineers say can't be built anyway). So, even in the end, the best view of the Statue of Liberty will not be from Governor Pataki's tower... it will be from one of a dozen other office or apartment buildings in Manhattan.
Some of you may be asking, why isn't Govenor Pataki willing to let go of this nonsense? I have my suspicions which I'll address in a future blog. In the meantime, here's a solution a lot of folks have already been working on... rebuild the Twin Towers. The group MakeNYNYagain.com has a plan that is ready to go. Their blueprints, environmental impact statements, and etc. are more detailed than anything Governor Pataki's crew has produced. And as we wrote a few nights ago, the Gardner/Belton group even has a 9-foot architectural model for any skeptical reporters and city officials who bother to take a look.
Today, Governor Pataki, Mayor Bloomberg, and Developer Silverstein had a meeting. But it wasn't the kind of meeting Americans, and especially New Yorkers, want or deserve. The shame continues.
very very VERY disturbing to me.
i empathize completely, but it's very short sighted. to say that the terrorists win if something new is designed there is strange and illogical to me. it seems to me that the terrorists win if we rebuild exactly what they destoryed in a vain effort to pretend that the problems that lead to the terrorist act don't exist. rebuilding the twin towers is an insult to the thousands who died there. it's as if you're saying, "9/11? what 9/11?"
of course, they also win if the design (whatever design) ends up being as crassly capitalistic and materialism driven as it is becoming.
tell me what moving the building to 75' back from the street from 25' had to do with security. does this mean all new buildings in NY to be set back this far?,,,,,,,interesting new city make up.
larry silverstien is sitting back laughing because as soon as someone gets the projected cost to make this change [som fees, loss of revenue due to delay in project start date] they will get there head out of the sand and realize there is no security consern.
i will assure you wtc structure is already designed with the highest level of reducndancy precribed for critical facilities such as hospitals etc.
you're all forgetting. terrorists (specifically ones in airplanes, such as with the original wtc towers) will not attack a building if it's at least 75 feet off of a main thoroughfare. sort of like how a deer will freeze in headlights, or how a rat will be able to get through an opening as long as it can fit its head through.
terrorists are very predictable you see.
so, this design move - despite likely costing several hundreds of millions of dollars, a great deal of time and frustration, majorly scrambling the masterplan and site layout ideology, and almost certainly not making the building ANY safer - is actually very clever.
i'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, when pataki and bloomberg finally use eminent domain to boot silverstein and childs. new yorkers should demand a reboot to the entire process, demanding a look into wether that much office space is even needed right now. one has got to wonder if a new tower designed entirely by david childs will be less of a "mongrel", as philip nobel called the last iteration. meanwhile, daniel libeskind is designing bad condos in every other midwestern state, and of course in milan, for some reason. if a tower must be built at ground zero then you would guess new york would want the best of the best in terms of skyscrapers. if it is back to square one then it should really be back to square one. give it to foster, ito, nouvel or zaha.
Long live 3D honeycomb! 3d honeycomb will never die. Crass opportunism never dies. Bloomberg and Pataki should impose the use of 3dhoneycomb on childs, silverstein or anyone else who touches a mouse to work on a ground zero project.
i'd veto foster and insert yankee doodle mayne. it's hard to recommend thom when he's so hyped right now, but oh well.
it's sad and strange. when the project started, i was pleased that liebeskind was involved in the design. i had liked his work till about then, but he has been pumping out a lot of junk lately. his original design for freedom tower was decent, but everything seems to be sliding in to the trash.
so yeah, f it. why not start over again. if we're moving the whole freakin thing around 50 feet this way, 50 feet that way... why not?
i don't know but a lot of people's logic ties the construction of a tall building to "winning" the "war on terror." I even saw a letter in today's Times to that effect. From a less triumphal point of view and from a more sensitive planning perspective, you would perhaps want to build a monument first and foremost, and also build the train station, the theatre and the museum. that, one might say, is to do justice to the victims and it might make more sense from for business even. If there is demand for offices, then build the offices. It seems like right now there is great uncertainty that the space will even rent.
I'd be all for a redesign, but the originals were disfunctional and ugly (imo). Sure, the two standing there became an icon, but that's it.
I love Libeskind's Denver Art Museum, actually think it's one of the best buildings in the world right now (just rode by it, and it's just amazing they cantilevered teh whole damn thing over an active road!), but his WTC design was mediocre, and after Child's got his hands on it, it lost any integrity to the master plan. Not to mention the bs, politics, and Silverstein, that just tainted the entire ordeal.
Put the damn thing off for a while! Build the other pieces, as Javier suggests, then decide about the building.
KPF, Foster, or Mayne would do a great job, as would so many others. It'd be incredible to see a 'real' competition, but that just ain't gonna happen.
Hey, whatever happend to that kid that was sueing SOM? Anyone know? I'd assume it got settled out of court and no one knows for sure what happened.
KPF is the greatest architectural embaressment next to harbor freeway in downtown Los Angeles from the 80's on.
Their kiss ass pomo corporate building has 3 different greek temples going on top of it.
Are they any better now?
the building is on the right.
maybe i am a little too mean to this building, but it bugged me (and still does) for years driving thru harbor freeway which the building edges.
each time i hear the name KPF, this building pops in my mind.
i think they are a mediocre corporate firm that do tons of work around the world.
as far as WTC concerned, this is turning into a big tragy-comic real estate moves among the politicians, developers and public is growingly becoming aware of the opportunistic decisions being made around patriotism, terrorism and security bull shit.. c'mon, it is nothing more than a real estate venture at this point with insurance companies and all. it is all about money..
actually, i take it back, KPF would be an excellent choice for this kind of a mediocre situation this thing has turned into.
darth foster, dark side has gone to. all young padawan learners would wise be to new world trade center not let design.
ok. actually, i think he's good. just not as good as he gets credit for. very subjective, just imo.
as for that pic above. whoa that's aweful. but not as bad as rebuilding the towers would be. which may end up not being as bad as the redesign is becoming.
i think that the way this project is going, the terrorists are 'winning' more and more every day. interesting to think that their biggest and poignant point has actually been in the process of rebuilding, and was actualized by 'patriotic' americans themselves. makes me feel kind of sick.
abracadabra....if you think that building represents the way kpf works now, then you are living under a rock. yes, their 80s work was bad, but most was...pomo, etc.
check out their new stuff, it's so much better. there's a reason why so many firms copy them
It's easy to say 'the terrorist's are winning more and more every day as long as this political/money/power play continues to sacrifice the integrity of the memorial, etc. etc.', just wish someone would throw that back in the face of these letters (but that'd go against the political/money/power play, and we can't have that in America!).
Yeah, Abra, if I saw that building and knew it was KPF, I would have a different opinion - perhaps. Are you sure?
Go down to Borders and look at their latest book. It's a HUGE book and there are some truly superb projects in it. Projects that are as good as any of the Stararchitects, imho. There certainly is NOTHING like that building in it, and it's got to be 500-1000 pages of pics. Selective, for sure, but I can't believe that's their work. You sure???
kpf is big and corporate. so, they have a whole bunch of pretty lame/uninteresting stuff. however, they do have several really good projects (ibm world hdqts) and a lot of experience with big, complex situations.
thing is, i wouldn't want to take any architect for granted to do the project, till i saw their proposal. even the greatest designer can flop like a fish on a project as insanely difficult and complex as this one.
that building is them and i posted a nice picture of it. things are worse from the freeway..
also, i looked to their recent work and did not see much improvement either. perhaps the skin has changed but it is the same corporote buildings and it is them copying others. soulless lobbies under the steel buildings desparetly trying to be serious architecture like the ones before them mines the originality.
but if you really want to know, i am just a tourist posing as architecture undercover. and don't really give a flying fuck about kpf or any other corporate associates..
"that building is them and i posted a nice picture of it. things are worse from the freeway..
also, i looked to their recent work and did not see much improvement either. perhaps the skin has changed but it is the same corporote buildings and it is them copying others. soulless lobbies under the steel buildings desparetly trying to be serious architecture like the ones before them mines the originality.
but if you really want to know, i am just a tourist posing as architecture undercover. and don't really give a flying fuck about kpf or any other corporate associates.."
Good point about wanting to see the work before giving the 'ok'.
I can't imagine the complexities involved with this project and the headaches.
As for KPF, to each his own, I guess. I am sure, as in that image, that they do tons of crap, however, their recent book is has some pretty nice projects. If you've ever designed office buildings, there is only so much you can do. It's all skin, the rest is sq ft, all pretty much predetermined.
WTC hires new architects...
...the NYPD.
here
thoughts?
Since when do Police Departments have design standards for buidlings?
Fact is, if someone really wants to wreck something (be it a window pane to break into your house, or a 747 to topple a high-rise), given enough planning and resources, it will happen.
That's not to say we shouldn't use forethought to identify security issues in our buildings, but, avoiding terrorist threats through the design of a building - that's a pretty tough standard.
i completely agree with you freq. and even if i didn't, couldn't the nypd have raised these issues earlier? months or years earlier?
but the police having a veto over building design? that's a scary thought.
I can imagine it:
POLICE OFFICER: why is the tower so high?
LIBESKIND: ummm, cos 1776 feet is like the year 1776, the year of independence!
POLICE OFFICER: nice try wierdo!
I'm not too bothered by the police raising issues - but yes, where were you guys 2 years ago? I saw Libeskind lecture a couple months ago, and he seems to have resigned his fighting to the 1776 number, the atrium at the top, and the fact that it twists to emulate the movement of the Statue of Liberty. If it moves back from the street a little so be it. This is what troubles me, "I have no doubt that David Childs will come up with yet another magnificent new design." They are really doing anything they can in their power to keep Libeskind from designing and putting his name on this building.
Also, "A 20-ton granite cornerstone was laid last July." What are they going to do now - move it?!
There existed an opportunity with the rebuilding of the WTC to create a building that would become the defining architectural work of the twenty first century. It could have been a true monument to those who died there and a real marvel of human ingenuity. It could have risen above the level of being a symbol of greed and commercialism (which is what lead WTC 1 to be a target) and instead become a place of inspiration to people the world over. It could have helped redefine America’s tarnished image throughout the rest of the world, just as the original skyscrapers 100 years earlier had helped the US gain respect as a financial player.
Even though Libeskind and other competition entrants addressed these issues in their designs, it seems that the new WTC has been doomed to banality basically from day one. The bureaucratic wrangling, the special interests, Childs’ incompetence, and the insistence that the program be driven principally by for-profit motives, have robbed the design of any remarkable qualities. It seems that the new WTC is on its way to becoming a symbol of America’s indignant self-righteousness and growing irrelevance on the world stage. Even worse is that it does not seem that it will be a particularly moving memorial to those who died.
Why should architecture move forward if nothing else moves forward? Architecture reflects the needs of the people regardless of "a vision" from one. Architecture will change, but not through this project, rather through this experience.
wow threads, you are so deep.
and you are transparent...but really, I never intended my comment to be deep nor meaningful, and I never claimed to be rich in thought.
my comment is a simple prophetic statement regarding the obvious. There is nothing to debate with my statement...besides ego.
prophetic or pathetic?
don't take youself too seriously.
so whatever response (be it manifesto be it trite joke) I'm interested in reading what you have to say.
I have heard from a source well placed in the LMDC that this has nothing to do with security issues but instead Pataki and Bloomberg are trying to break up the Childs/Silverstein alliance.
I am not sure why they would be doing this but Pataki and Childs never saw eye to eye and Pataki always preferred Libeskinds plan to SOM's so maybe he is looking to replace Childs?
Freedom Tower: NY Gov. Pataki says "Redesign" (David Shuster)
Two nights ago, shortly after writing in this space about the latest debacles surrounding the Freedom Tower, my inbox got jammed with e-mails from hundreds of you expressing your rage and indignation at New York Governor George Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and Ground Zero developer Larry Silverstein. Nearly all of you wrote that the Freedom Tower is an embarassment and that America wants the Twin Towers back.
Jeff wrote that rebuilding them would be "a design for the ages, simultaneously telling future generations the story of 9-11 and of America's determination." Sean wrote, "It is shameful that the Twin Towers were not rebuilt immediately." Damir wrote that the newer, safer, stronger Twin Towers, "would illustrate such a powerful American spirit. Man, I get emotional just thinking about it." Maureen wrote about the absence of the Twin Towers and said, "my heart aches... for what the image of America has become."
Many of you asked what you could do to change things. Tonight, for a moment, it seemed part of the battle had been won. I received a call from a friend at another broadcast organization who said, "Did you hear the news? Governor Pataki just announced the Freedom Tower project has been suspended." It sounded like the entire Freedom Tower project was being shelved and that common sense and political smarts had finally entered Governor Pataki's mind.
I should have known better. When I finally reached a computer, the AP headline was, "New York Governor: Freedom Tower must be redesigned because of security concerns." The article went on to say that Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein met at Pataki's Manhattan office late this afternoon. While details of their meeting were not released, the trio supposedly addressed a NYPD report last week which found that the location in the pit where the Freedom Tower is planned is too close to two major thoroughfares (and would therefore be vulnerable to truck bombs). The Pataki quote tonight was, "We believe that a building that meets the NYPD standards can be built consistent with architect Daniel Liebeskind's master site plan." In other words, Pataki and co. think the "problem" with the Freedom Tower can be solved by building the tower in a different part of Ground Zero.
Hello? Earth to Governor Pataki. You can't place the building in a different location. The entire area has to be redesigned. Remember, the site includes the footprints of the Twin Towers that were destroyed, a memorial area, and part of the original pit. In addition, there are "line of sight" issues with the Statue of Liberty. Everybody in New York knows this. Almost everybody also knows the reason most Americans hate the Freedom Tower is because it bears no resemblance to the Twin Towers. The issue is simple: If the Freedom Tower is on the table, the terrorists win. Why? Because holding on to Governor Pataki's Freedom Tower means America's enemies will have a gaping hole in New York to admire for at least another five years. Then, assuming the tower actually gets built in 5 years (want to bet?) America will unveil a "feeble tower." Why "feeble?" Because in this bizarre windmill/birdcage topped building... human beings will only be able to go as high as the 75th floor. That's right. The building may technically reach 1,776 feet... but that's counting the contraption on top (something that engineers say can't be built anyway). So, even in the end, the best view of the Statue of Liberty will not be from Governor Pataki's tower... it will be from one of a dozen other office or apartment buildings in Manhattan.
Some of you may be asking, why isn't Govenor Pataki willing to let go of this nonsense? I have my suspicions which I'll address in a future blog. In the meantime, here's a solution a lot of folks have already been working on... rebuild the Twin Towers. The group MakeNYNYagain.com has a plan that is ready to go. Their blueprints, environmental impact statements, and etc. are more detailed than anything Governor Pataki's crew has produced. And as we wrote a few nights ago, the Gardner/Belton group even has a 9-foot architectural model for any skeptical reporters and city officials who bother to take a look.
Today, Governor Pataki, Mayor Bloomberg, and Developer Silverstein had a meeting. But it wasn't the kind of meeting Americans, and especially New Yorkers, want or deserve. The shame continues.
Questions/comments: DShuster@MSNBC.com
the idea that people want to rebuild the old towers for me is very, very disturbing
very very VERY disturbing to me.
i empathize completely, but it's very short sighted. to say that the terrorists win if something new is designed there is strange and illogical to me. it seems to me that the terrorists win if we rebuild exactly what they destoryed in a vain effort to pretend that the problems that lead to the terrorist act don't exist. rebuilding the twin towers is an insult to the thousands who died there. it's as if you're saying, "9/11? what 9/11?"
of course, they also win if the design (whatever design) ends up being as crassly capitalistic and materialism driven as it is becoming.
While they're at it, they really should hire new architects...these peabrains don't know a thing about good design.
YES please redesign !!!!
this is just bull shit.
tell me what moving the building to 75' back from the street from 25' had to do with security. does this mean all new buildings in NY to be set back this far?,,,,,,,interesting new city make up.
larry silverstien is sitting back laughing because as soon as someone gets the projected cost to make this change [som fees, loss of revenue due to delay in project start date] they will get there head out of the sand and realize there is no security consern.
i will assure you wtc structure is already designed with the highest level of reducndancy precribed for critical facilities such as hospitals etc.
so nragd unabl to tyyp
would it have helped if the wtc had been moved back fifty feet?
you're all forgetting. terrorists (specifically ones in airplanes, such as with the original wtc towers) will not attack a building if it's at least 75 feet off of a main thoroughfare. sort of like how a deer will freeze in headlights, or how a rat will be able to get through an opening as long as it can fit its head through.
terrorists are very predictable you see.
so, this design move - despite likely costing several hundreds of millions of dollars, a great deal of time and frustration, majorly scrambling the masterplan and site layout ideology, and almost certainly not making the building ANY safer - is actually very clever.
(extreme closeup!) NOT!
i'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, when pataki and bloomberg finally use eminent domain to boot silverstein and childs. new yorkers should demand a reboot to the entire process, demanding a look into wether that much office space is even needed right now. one has got to wonder if a new tower designed entirely by david childs will be less of a "mongrel", as philip nobel called the last iteration. meanwhile, daniel libeskind is designing bad condos in every other midwestern state, and of course in milan, for some reason. if a tower must be built at ground zero then you would guess new york would want the best of the best in terms of skyscrapers. if it is back to square one then it should really be back to square one. give it to foster, ito, nouvel or zaha.
come on javier, cant you at least put one yank on your new short list for re-design?
Hi All You Fancy Graphics Lovers!
Per Corell... you are ROCKIN the NYTimes discussions!!!
Long live 3D honeycomb! 3d honeycomb will never die. Crass opportunism never dies. Bloomberg and Pataki should impose the use of 3dhoneycomb on childs, silverstein or anyone else who touches a mouse to work on a ground zero project.
the idea of Darth Foster, isnt bad at all, zaha AAAAhahahahah. ha ha
i'd veto foster and insert yankee doodle mayne. it's hard to recommend thom when he's so hyped right now, but oh well.
it's sad and strange. when the project started, i was pleased that liebeskind was involved in the design. i had liked his work till about then, but he has been pumping out a lot of junk lately. his original design for freedom tower was decent, but everything seems to be sliding in to the trash.
so yeah, f it. why not start over again. if we're moving the whole freakin thing around 50 feet this way, 50 feet that way... why not?
why veto darth foster ?
Whats wrong with an updated version of the original towers? REBUILD THE TOWERS!
i don't know but a lot of people's logic ties the construction of a tall building to "winning" the "war on terror." I even saw a letter in today's Times to that effect. From a less triumphal point of view and from a more sensitive planning perspective, you would perhaps want to build a monument first and foremost, and also build the train station, the theatre and the museum. that, one might say, is to do justice to the victims and it might make more sense from for business even. If there is demand for offices, then build the offices. It seems like right now there is great uncertainty that the space will even rent.
KPF should win the re-design...they know how to design great towers
I'd be all for a redesign, but the originals were disfunctional and ugly (imo). Sure, the two standing there became an icon, but that's it.
I love Libeskind's Denver Art Museum, actually think it's one of the best buildings in the world right now (just rode by it, and it's just amazing they cantilevered teh whole damn thing over an active road!), but his WTC design was mediocre, and after Child's got his hands on it, it lost any integrity to the master plan. Not to mention the bs, politics, and Silverstein, that just tainted the entire ordeal.
Put the damn thing off for a while! Build the other pieces, as Javier suggests, then decide about the building.
KPF, Foster, or Mayne would do a great job, as would so many others. It'd be incredible to see a 'real' competition, but that just ain't gonna happen.
Hey, whatever happend to that kid that was sueing SOM? Anyone know? I'd assume it got settled out of court and no one knows for sure what happened.
KPF is the greatest architectural embaressment next to harbor freeway in downtown Los Angeles from the 80's on.
Their kiss ass pomo corporate building has 3 different greek temples going on top of it.
Are they any better now?
the building is on the right.
maybe i am a little too mean to this building, but it bugged me (and still does) for years driving thru harbor freeway which the building edges.
each time i hear the name KPF, this building pops in my mind.
i think they are a mediocre corporate firm that do tons of work around the world.
as far as WTC concerned, this is turning into a big tragy-comic real estate moves among the politicians, developers and public is growingly becoming aware of the opportunistic decisions being made around patriotism, terrorism and security bull shit.. c'mon, it is nothing more than a real estate venture at this point with insurance companies and all. it is all about money..
actually, i take it back, KPF would be an excellent choice for this kind of a mediocre situation this thing has turned into.
darth foster, dark side has gone to. all young padawan learners would wise be to new world trade center not let design.
ok. actually, i think he's good. just not as good as he gets credit for. very subjective, just imo.
as for that pic above. whoa that's aweful. but not as bad as rebuilding the towers would be. which may end up not being as bad as the redesign is becoming.
i think that the way this project is going, the terrorists are 'winning' more and more every day. interesting to think that their biggest and poignant point has actually been in the process of rebuilding, and was actualized by 'patriotic' americans themselves. makes me feel kind of sick.
abracadabra....if you think that building represents the way kpf works now, then you are living under a rock. yes, their 80s work was bad, but most was...pomo, etc.
check out their new stuff, it's so much better. there's a reason why so many firms copy them
It's easy to say 'the terrorist's are winning more and more every day as long as this political/money/power play continues to sacrifice the integrity of the memorial, etc. etc.', just wish someone would throw that back in the face of these letters (but that'd go against the political/money/power play, and we can't have that in America!).
Yeah, Abra, if I saw that building and knew it was KPF, I would have a different opinion - perhaps. Are you sure?
Go down to Borders and look at their latest book. It's a HUGE book and there are some truly superb projects in it. Projects that are as good as any of the Stararchitects, imho. There certainly is NOTHING like that building in it, and it's got to be 500-1000 pages of pics. Selective, for sure, but I can't believe that's their work. You sure???
kpf is big and corporate. so, they have a whole bunch of pretty lame/uninteresting stuff. however, they do have several really good projects (ibm world hdqts) and a lot of experience with big, complex situations.
thing is, i wouldn't want to take any architect for granted to do the project, till i saw their proposal. even the greatest designer can flop like a fish on a project as insanely difficult and complex as this one.
that building is them and i posted a nice picture of it. things are worse from the freeway..
also, i looked to their recent work and did not see much improvement either. perhaps the skin has changed but it is the same corporote buildings and it is them copying others. soulless lobbies under the steel buildings desparetly trying to be serious architecture like the ones before them mines the originality.
but if you really want to know, i am just a tourist posing as architecture undercover. and don't really give a flying fuck about kpf or any other corporate associates..
"that building is them and i posted a nice picture of it. things are worse from the freeway..
also, i looked to their recent work and did not see much improvement either. perhaps the skin has changed but it is the same corporote buildings and it is them copying others. soulless lobbies under the steel buildings desparetly trying to be serious architecture like the ones before them mines the originality.
but if you really want to know, i am just a tourist posing as architecture undercover. and don't really give a flying fuck about kpf or any other corporate associates.."
ok terrific
thank you.
Good point about wanting to see the work before giving the 'ok'.
I can't imagine the complexities involved with this project and the headaches.
As for KPF, to each his own, I guess. I am sure, as in that image, that they do tons of crap, however, their recent book is has some pretty nice projects. If you've ever designed office buildings, there is only so much you can do. It's all skin, the rest is sq ft, all pretty much predetermined.
if they moved it thousands of miles away (say, to riyadh) terrorists could still choose to hit it.
meanwhile, armored towers?
http://www.nortfort.ru/nfort/foto_o17_e.html
i think vado retro should "redesign" the towers. at least he's got a sense of humor.
:-)
Escalade, Suburban , Yukon, Denali , Blazer , Tahoe , h2,
they're all C-somethings
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