Detroit wouldn't have such a great music scene if it weren't bleak. Difficult environments fuel creative energy. You don't hear about challenging art coming from nice places. I'll take an energetic art scene over a Bannana Republic any day.

Interesting, but preserving the creative energy of an area, or its suitability for artists and architects who live on the cheap is never going to be a compelling arguement against development. Profit, (lamentably so) is what drives both development and much of public government. Instead of railing against it,(which I think probably just removes us from the discussion) as architects it is probably more sensible to find ways to make gentrification more responsible, and harnass all that reinvestment towards more noble, and equally profitable ends. And god help me, Starbucks is not a bad example of this - decent wages for unskilled work, health insurance for anyone who works more than 20 hours a week, and a lot of investment in local charities. Could be a lot worse. When I was in Ann Arbor, Starbucks came in and the local coffee chains complained that this giant, evil corporation was coming in and homogenizing them right out of business. I think the fact that they would have to pay their employees 4 more dollars an hour and give them insurance may have had something to do with it, too.

the lakers are going to kick the piston's ASS!

true.

Sorry - I don't follow soccer that close.

I think the gentrification happening in Detroit is BAD. The envirenment there is not conducive to good architecture at all, and I think architecture is one of the most important ingredients of good gentification. It breaks my heart to see what is actually getting built in Downtown. Those condos on woodward are shameful suburban tract homes crammed into the heart of the city. Compulaw is a terrible monstosity. A few bad firms have there hand in all of the work in downtown, so its not like something good will come along anytime soon.

While Detroit has a great music scene most of it not native to Detroit but to the "nice" surrounding areas. Much of the so called scene do not even live in Detroit.

"You don't hear about challenging art coming from nice places"
Wolf Eyes make some pretty challenging music err.. noise and they're from Ann Arbor - a pretty nice place.

Good call with Wolf Eyes! I making a generalization about environment - sorry if it came off as a blanket statement. Really, how many edgy movements are coming from Hawaii or Cape Cod or Florida? (Okay - Schematic Records from Miami is an exception.)

As far as Detroit music goes, if we want to get picky about who lives in the city proper: Adult., Tamion 12 Inch, Goudron, Matthew Dear, Carl Craig, Derrick May, Allen Goodman, The Dirtbombs, The White Stripes (Meg still lives in the Woodbridge district), etc. etc. (Kid Rock and Eminem are decidedly excluded when talking about music as party of an innovative creative scene.)

Purists and suburbanites hate this equally, but I would turn the whole metro area into a burrough system and call it all Detroit, like Toronto did a few years ago. I'm pretty sure it would be the fourth largest city in the country.

The Pistons kicked the Laker's ass. You got it backwards amigo

Michael when did you move back to Detroit? What do you expect to happen in the future? Whats the opinion of the greater Black community in Detroit if you know?

I can see V.U. already suggested it but for those of you interested in a different take on Detroit (the normative posistion being "it needs to be fixed") check out:

Stalking Detroit
by Georgia Daskalakis, Charles Waldheim, Jason Young

It's an interesting collection of essays and projects that celebrates Detroit's condition without passing value judgments or "solutions".

Big questions John! I've only been back for four months, so I can't make any deep assesments about the community reaction, and I'm really not an expert on the black community. In general though, it seems residents (African Americans mainly, who make up about 80% of the population) seem happy to see the city getting nicer. I would assume there's some trepidation about just who this is all for though. Its also interesting to note a migration of the black middle class to the suburbs over the years.

The arts community is pretty much the same as ever - brilliant and friendly poeple who don't go out very much. There's no room for bullshit or trends - very genuine. I really missed that quality in New York. Its the underground energy and people's dedication to their work that make the city so appealing to me. Its interesting what a noticable presence Detroit expats had in NY, and how much they/we (especially musicians) shaped the scene there for a while. Then everyone moved to Berlin...

I'm curious to see how revitalization or gentrification pans out in the city. Like I said before, its good to see a lot of renovation and good architecture counterbalance the really awful stuff like the suburban-style condos or the lame Compuware building. The city is driven by politics and egos, which is a huge part of why a lot of stuff never happened for so long. If no one was going to get credit for something or get rich, then it was squashed. Its' not like there isn't money - Oakland County is still the 2nd wealthiest in the nation I think. I'd like to see developments and programs that share the revitalization with the city's poorer residents and get them excited about it, through jobs and resources that cater to their needs - such as decent grocery stores for a start. I like that there is a general positive energy about things happening. If all the residents are treated equally and have a sense of ownership in this, thats the best scenario. If people are swept under the rug so Joe Birmingham doesn't have to look at poverty while he sips his porto, that's really not good at all. Too early to tell. it'll probably be a mix. I don't see Detroit getting really mallified. You never know though. If that happens, its off to Berlin.

when I left Detroit 2 years ago for LA, an initiative was on the table to change the charter of the Detroit city council to make it a more representative body, directly accountable to specific neighborhoods. To me this seemed to have great potential to let communities decide for themselves the type and degree of gentrification they were comfortable with. What happened? are the council members still Coleman Young holdovers? is there any hope for enlightened urbanists to have an effect on development decisions in Detroit?

oh, and to the rest of LA - fear the fro -
go pistons.

lakers in six!!!

Don’t forget though, a lot of the time those artists, actors, and creative types who make a bit more than the average low income minority family in the area serve as pawns and diluting agents, soldiers on the front lines of gentrification. This ‘struggling artist’ population operates on both sides of gentrification, they are simultaneously forced out of one area through displacement to be moved into another area eventually paving that community for eventual displacement as well. The artisans are a perpetual buffer tool for developers’ war with the poor. But It is a very difficult task of improving a neighborhood without transplanting its essence for a white America, and a lot of times alternatives within the Caucasian population sadly become the first stage in implementing that. That is not to say however that the effect they may have there cannot be a positive one too.

korekian (how ever you spell his name) the billionaire from Vegas
is coming to Detroit to squeeze the UAW rednecks into submission and turn detroit into a midwest gambling capital. Autos and casinos now thats industrial diversification...

Detroit is cool because it is just across the river from good, decent, liberal Canada... (where there is no capital punishment)

Uhh.... Have you ever been to Windsor? Jesus Christ...


This is a great thread. So much to say, and so little time.

First off, Ann Arbor's green belt is interesting as I've heard a lot of criticism from personal discussions I've had with people I thought would have whole-heartedly supported it. I think their criticisms revolved around the whole thing being too vague. Trying too hard to preserve a lifestyle (rural farming) that no one wants to live anymore. Things like that. I admittedly don't know too much about the whole ordeal and any support of greenbelts comes from what I think them to be, not what AA's is specifically.

Also, one of my good friends from high school started up his own art studio right after college. Their first studio was in the middle of downtown AA is this kickass, old, asbestos filled industrial building 3 blocks off Main on 3rd. They had to move out when the building was torn down and replaced with--I believe--a mixed used apartment building. From there, they moved to an abandoned 'large format' store in Ypsilanti. They loved it there. The size and open layout meant they could literally do whatever they wanted with the inside. I forget the exact reasons they had to move again, but I think it was because they were tearing the building down for a new one that was going to be part of a new lifestyle center or something like that. There current residence is an old tent and awning factory at the corner of Warren and Grand River in Detroit. Just a couple blocks away from where the race riots originally started and 3 blocks down from a recently burnt out and abandonded old church. It's been interesting to watch this sort of anti-sprawl, back into Detroit.

I think gentrification can be a good thing if it's done with a deliberate and concerted effort to maintain livability for everyone, not just the rich suburban professional folk.

"gentrification can be a good thing" and "livability for everyone"

are you serious?

Yep.

A lot of this debate about gentrication seems to miss a big part chunk of the problem, which is the folks that live in underprivileged areas rarely have an ownership stake in their own neighborhood. Renters can and do get pushed out by rising prices, but property owners can shape policy and gain a piece of the action through increased equity. Unless property taxes become untenable (and in a lot of depressed urban communities there are caps on amount taxes for properties which do not change hands). Seems like if anti-gentrification forces spent more time creating affordable housing for purchase (not more affordable rental properties) they wouldn't have to spend as much time trying to keep Starbucks at the block, because both the pace and type of development would have to be more responsible to the community, rather than absentee developers. Just a thought..

Drift,

you're actually Andres Duany in disguise aren't you?

I'm worse.

Much, much worse.

thanks a lot HOOVER

the bauhaus foundation did a project a few years back called 'Shrinking Cities' that looked at Detroit and other similar cities in the world from a social-geographical and artistic standpoint. have heard good things about it.

http://www.bauhaus-dessau.de/en/projects.asp?p=bks

although the general debate about gentrification is worthwhile, I do not feel that it is really applicable to detroit at this time. one of the biggest complaints about gentrification is that it pushes out existing residents (often poorer ones.) detroit, however, still has plenty of room. its biggest problem has been massive population loss over the last foty years so realisitically it will be a while before anybody currently in the city risks being displaced.

also, this notion of starbucks or the gap taking over seems to be a bit premature. for the most part, the city currently lacks coffee shops and retail to begin with so a.) there is little threat of this corporate institutions displacing significant amounts of locally owned business and b.) i am not sure that the demographics of most of Detroit are any where near appealing to most chains.

personally, i feel that detroit has a very long ways to go. the entire cool city initiative is a bit ridiculous because in many ways detroit already is cool...but it is not a very good city. its school system is struggling, it has difficulty maintaining infrastructure with its shrinking tax base, it is nearly fiscally bankrupt and it is being strangled by unions and cronyism. moreover, its young hip-hop mayor seems to be oblivous to all of this as he revels in his own delusions of personal glory and entitlement. amongst his questionable behaviours he has managed to charge $270,000 worth of personal expenses on a city credit cards and leased a lincoln navigator for his wife while at the same time reducing the city's already pathetic bus service because of budget constraints. remarkably, he is still pretty popular amongst most residents.

sadly, the worse is probably yet to come.