I am
reaching out to the more experienced professionals in this forum to ask for
some insight.
I am in graduate school with 2-3 years work experience behind me and currently trying to determine the right role after graduating.
At all
jobs I worked so far I was in a production role where I had to produce graphics, drawings
and models in a fast pace either for front end, technical design or construction issue.
However,
the case is that I have autism and OCD, so I struggled a lot with producing to
deadlines because of my obsession to make drawings look really perfect and
highly accurate. As a result I was really a slow and unproductive employee compared to
industry standards. I wasn't a slacker, instead I made
an effort, but worked very slowly. However, project managers were shouting at me and I ended up losing jobs.
I don't want to have that experience again and I have
come to the realization that jobs which require using software to produce
drawings to deadlines are not suitable for me. The truth
is that I applied for such roles, because my most valuable skill to an
employer (like most graduates) was my software
literacy.
This may
sound like a stupid question, because documentation is highly important in this
industry, but are there any entry level jobs in the building sector
(architecture/construction/engineering /real estate) which don't require you to
draw?
Or are
there particular entry level roles in which my obsession for high
quality can be valued?
Based on
feedback from previous employers and colleagues I am:
-highly
organized
-care a
lot about quality
-more
technically inclined
-quiet,
yet friendly and easy to work with
-proactive,
diligent
I work
better in small teams, with informal settings and collaborative spirit, and I
have figured that corporate places are not for me.
I am also
good at research and thinking strategically, critically and creatively.
In terms
of my training, I was a strong, academically gifted student and I have a
balanced education across subjects ranging from urban design to building
envelopes.
I have
been thinking of switching to teaching, which I have a passion for (and some experience too as a tutor), but then
again being a teacher involves in my opinion a high level of responsibility and
despite being gifted and successful during my time in academia, out of humbleness I don't deem myself to be experienced enough or a good role
model to teach others. I also know that academia is a really elitist, exclusive network, and in the long term you need a Phd if you wish to progress upwards.
Finally, I am
curious as to what entry level roles one can work at as a consultant with an architectural education. I
understand that to be a valuable consultant you need expertise, which only
comes after a lot of years of experience in the industry, which therefore a graduate cannot have.
In your
opinion, what kind of role and in what line of work within the industry would
fit me the best?
Thank you for reading into my post. I look forward to your responses.
It sounds like you'd be a good owners rep or possibly a role in construction administration.
Aug 27, 24 11:28 am ·
·
curiousblogger
Hi Chad, thank you for your answer. I have read your posts and I understand that you are very experienced. Doesn't construction administration require several years of experience in order perform? Myself I have an interest in construction, however I understand that construction is a vast subject and in the firms I worked it was only registered architects who would be given this responsibility. How can I start doing CA without any previous experience on site? I would need to shadow a senior person right? What tasks within the CA process can I contribute to to offer value as a junior person while I am learning the job?
You would need to have experience in CA via an architectural firm. That or you could obtain a Construction Management degree.
Another option is to be and owners rep. You'd basically be coordinating and keeping track of all the items the owner normally would during the construction process. You'd also be keeping track of the budget, pay requests, change orders, ect from the owners end. You'd be reviewing what the architect and contractor do and basically make sure the owners interests are being protected.
Thank you for your answer. Doesn't that require more of financial/actuary skill and education than architectural knowledge? In terms of daily activities, is it like looking at catalogues and using formulas to arrive at a calculation? Do contractors tend to hire people fresh out of school to do this work? How much liability and room for error is involved in this role?
Aug 27, 24 12:38 pm ·
·
Wilma Buttfit
Estimating can be entry level as well as the job of a senior person. You do have to know quite a bit but they should train you and the training to get started will be short and easy. When I did estimating, I used a spreadsheet that was preloaded with data based on past projects. I helped build the spreadsheet and then used it by doing take offs which is taking measurements from the plans. You need to know how to read plans which is a surprisingly rare skill in the construction industry, so you have an advantage there.
Aug 27, 24 12:51 pm ·
·
reallynotmyname
Estimating can be a good place, but avoid general construction firms that do public bid work. Estimating that stuff can be high-pressure and crazy. Lots of the subs bid at the last second and the overall bids are rarely "perfect". I fear those things would probably stress and frustrate you. Ideally, you would want a place that does negotiated projects only.
I suggest looking into roles in building science. I have ADHD and several autistic traits; I believe today I would be diagnosed as autistic as a child, but that wasn't common 45 years ago, and I mask pretty well. I know several building science professionals who have autistic traits.
I also dislike the drawing-under-deadline (or other pressure) scenarios. Building science is a broad and relatively new field, with nothing but opportunities for learning and growth. It's also an industry remarkably open to sharing knowledge and accepting others' differences, the polar opposite of architecture in many ways, though architectural skills are highly desired.
If you're not sure what building science entails, perhaps consider watching the Zoom show I started and co-host: https://www.youtube.com/channe.... The most recent show wasn't great but the one before it was excellent:
(I make no money from it and pay all expenses out of pocket, so this isn't really advertising.) There are also about 40 local discussion groups around the US and some in Canada, all free to attend: https://www.thebsandbeershow.c....
You may also be interested in an offshoot of my BS+Beer show and discussion groups, a series of 2-day building science symposiums in various cities all over North America: https://bsandbeerkc.org/introd...
I felt like I was reading my own thoughts, so would like to share my experience. I suffer from the same issues (and suffered intensely in grad school for it). I have been able to change/improve the way that I work over the past few years through some excellent mentorship. Which is to say: I didn't stop being a perfectionist, but I had managers and mentors who were able to show me what to focus on, what to prioritize, etc. Most importantly, I learned why. Like, I was able to make drawings "not perfect" because I learned that there are different kinds of "perfect" drawings. Different audiences, information, etc. Learning the "why" was like adding information to my system, making the process enjoyable and productive... even if the drawings weren't perfect. And if I could, I absolutely would take the extra effort to make things look exactly how I wanted.
Learning these things honestly improved other areas of my life where I've again, suffered anxiety and depression from things not being just so.
I realize this isn't possible for everyone, but it sounds like your previous working environments weren't offering good management, professionally and interpersonally. Maybe find a good mentor or a different sector? High end single-family residential? Your thought to change roles is equally valid though.
This jibes with my experience. I was able to become the best production drafter I knew despite undiagnosed ADHD and crippling perfectionism by learning to apply my perfectionism to doing "perfectly imperfect" drawings; or, put another way, by aiming to perfectly prioritize what needed to be drawn.
While I don't have OCD, I am autistic and can really relate to what you wrote, so here's my response (or at least part of it).
Your self-identified trait of being a perfectionist is shared with about 95% of people in this industry. You'll need to get over that, because true perfectionism isn't restricted to the task of drawing. It's ok to admit that you just find it boring, or you're in over your head, whatever. You don't owe anybody an explanation, it's your life and career.
Whatever aspect(s) of the profession you do enjoy, get really good at that. Maybe it's not drawing (though I absolutely agree with the person above me who wrote that there's different versions of perfect). For me, it started with my ease with building code and city zoning regulations - suddenly everybody in the office was coming to me and I was pretty much invaluable. Whenever a new code version came out, I made sure to become an expert. Somewhere along the way, I became the office expert at a newly adopted energy code, which then led me to follow a strong interest in building science. I was being sent to courses, involved in every project to some extent, etc.... it was fun, and I was good at it, so of course I eventually got assigned to do other things, which happens in business for better or worse.
At this point in my career, I'm licensed across the country and an owner/partner of a ~25 person firm, and I got here without having to do a single drawing. I'm not even sure I could open Revit. I never wanted to do drawing, so I had to make myself valuable in other ways. You can too, you've just got to figure out what that might be.
In addition to those other suggestions (spec writer is a great one, btw), code expert (within an architecture firm, or at a specialist consultant like fire code), QA/QC, energy modeling, funding expert (think government grants etc) and of course you could always work in an adjacent field. You could work for the government (at any level) or higher education in Facilities Management, Procurement, Project Management, etc etc etc. Literally a million different opportunities if you can broaden your mind outside of the single position known as an architect.
What did you like in high school? - what were, or are, your hobbies or outside interest? - if you could have any job in the world what would it be? - most people switch careers three times over their working years so expect that - your state employment office has analytical tests that pinpoint the jobs you may enjoy and excel at - if you are in graduate school you have critical thinking and organizational skills in your "tool box" which can be applied to any profession you wish - don't let others define you or your future - keep the faith in yourself ...
You just have to find a small office with no crazy deadlines, most likely custom high end residential, It would be great to have someone obsessed with perfection. Sometimes we get very picky clients, like one house completely clad in vals stone 2 1/2" tall with all the grout lines matching all around the house and inside. You have to spend time in those drawings, it's not a sausage factory like many offices do. I had a co-worker who had spent time in a sfr office that spew out like 30 houses a year, and he was incapable of looking at the details with the accuracy and dedication needed. Interior design has become increasingly more detailed and technical so that's also a possible path.
Just wondering how many suggesting spec writing have actually done that full time. If perfectionism is the problem, I'm afraid it is going to be worse as a spec writer.
I don't know what the OP is trying to get perfect in their drawings before a deadline. It might just be making sure details are drawn beautifully. It might be moving walls fractions of an inch to make sure the dimension strings have nice numbers. It might be getting the hatch patterns scaled perfectly. It might be making all the leaders line up and are spaced consistently. These are the types of things I assume are the problem when we're talking OCD and perfectionism.
Now imagine that with all the products the team is getting you information on (which you can't control the quality of, nor the timing of that information), trying to make sure your specifications are written technically correct for those products/materials, and also making sure that you have spaces in the right locations, the right types of punctuations in the right locations, all the referenced standards are up to date and indicating what you want them to indicate, formatting is consistent throughout the project manual, language is consistent throughout, etc. I've seen spec writers worry about making sure the line spacing is just right so they don't have orphaned paragraphs on a sheet, or one or two lines that create a new page. I've seen them fret over putting in blank pages between sections so they can get the first page of every section on an odd numbered (right hand side in a spread) page in the project manual. The debates I've seen over whether spec numbers should be XX XX XX, XX XXXX, or XXXXXX. Now make that happen with consultants and their sections as well if you're really worried about perfectionism.
I agree that many of the qualities the OP is mentioning are qualities that might make them a good spec writer, but I worry that if the OCD and perfectionism is to a level that they struggle producing to deadlines (as stated in the OP) they are going to be worse off in a specifications role. There is just so much more to worry about and get perfect and compulsively obsess over in the specifications. And for a lot of very important parts of the specifications, less individual control to make it right to meet the deadline.
Not only that, but a spec writer will have more projects to worry about and more deadlines to have to meet. Go ask your specification writer how many projects they juggle simultaneously. I've seen conservative numbers suggest that you need at least 1 spec writer for every 100 architects in a firm (possibly less). How many projects can 100 architects work on in a firm? How many of those 100 architects are on multiple projects? How many of those projects are they working on at the same time? How many can them manage at the same time? Now understand that there is one spec writer trying to manage information from those project teams and meeting deadlines every other week or so. Sometimes multiple deadlines a week.
My advice, find someone that can help you with the OCD.
Also, spec writing really isn't an entry level position. You need some experience before you can do well at it. It doesn't need to be a decade or more, but at least a few years where you've been doing CDs and CA on multiple projects would be a good start.
Roles that don't require drawing
I am reaching out to the more experienced professionals in this forum to ask for some insight.
I am in graduate school with 2-3 years work experience behind me and currently trying to determine the right role after graduating.
At all jobs I worked so far I was in a production role where I had to produce graphics, drawings and models in a fast pace either for front end, technical design or construction issue.
However, the case is that I have autism and OCD, so I struggled a lot with producing to deadlines because of my obsession to make drawings look really perfect and highly accurate. As a result I was really a slow and unproductive employee compared to industry standards. I wasn't a slacker, instead I made an effort, but worked very slowly. However, project managers were shouting at me and I ended up losing jobs.
I don't want to have that experience again and I have come to the realization that jobs which require using software to produce drawings to deadlines are not suitable for me. The truth is that I applied for such roles, because my most valuable skill to an employer (like most graduates) was my software literacy.
This may sound like a stupid question, because documentation is highly important in this industry, but are there any entry level jobs in the building sector (architecture/construction/engineering /real estate) which don't require you to draw?
Or are there particular entry level roles in which my obsession for high quality can be valued?
Based on feedback from previous employers and colleagues I am:
-highly organized
-care a lot about quality
-more technically inclined
-quiet, yet friendly and easy to work with
-proactive, diligent
I work better in small teams, with informal settings and collaborative spirit, and I have figured that corporate places are not for me.
I am also good at research and thinking strategically, critically and creatively.
In terms of my training, I was a strong, academically gifted student and I have a balanced education across subjects ranging from urban design to building envelopes.
I have been thinking of switching to teaching, which I have a passion for (and some experience too as a tutor), but then again being a teacher involves in my opinion a high level of responsibility and despite being gifted and successful during my time in academia, out of humbleness I don't deem myself to be experienced enough or a good role model to teach others. I also know that academia is a really elitist, exclusive network, and in the long term you need a Phd if you wish to progress upwards.
Finally, I am curious as to what entry level roles one can work at as a consultant with an architectural education. I understand that to be a valuable consultant you need expertise, which only comes after a lot of years of experience in the industry, which therefore a graduate cannot have.
In your opinion, what kind of role and in what line of work within the industry would fit me the best?
Thank you for reading into my post. I look forward to your responses.
It sounds like you'd be a good owners rep or possibly a role in construction administration.
Hi Chad, thank you for your answer. I have read your posts and I understand that you are very experienced. Doesn't construction administration require several years of experience in order perform? Myself I have an interest in construction, however I understand that construction is a vast subject and in the firms I worked it was only registered architects who would be given this responsibility. How can I start doing CA without any previous experience on site? I would need to shadow a senior person right? What tasks within the CA process can I contribute to to offer value as a junior person while I am learning the job?
You would need to have experience in CA via an architectural firm. That or you could obtain a Construction Management degree.
Another option is to be and owners rep. You'd basically be coordinating and keeping track of all the items the owner normally would during the construction process. You'd also be keeping track of the budget, pay requests, change orders, ect from the owners end. You'd be reviewing what the architect and contractor do and basically make sure the owners interests are being protected.
Estimating for a construction firm.
Thank you for your answer. Doesn't that require more of financial/actuary skill and education than architectural knowledge? In terms of daily activities, is it like looking at catalogues and using formulas to arrive at a calculation? Do contractors tend to hire people fresh out of school to do this work? How much liability and room for error is involved in this role?
Estimating can be entry level as well as the job of a senior person. You do have to know quite a bit but they should train you and the training to get started will be short and easy. When I did estimating, I used a spreadsheet that was preloaded with data based on past projects. I helped build the spreadsheet and then used it by doing take offs which is taking measurements from the plans. You need to know how to read plans which is a surprisingly rare skill in the construction industry, so you have an advantage there.
Estimating can be a good place, but avoid general construction firms that do public bid work. Estimating that stuff can be high-pressure and crazy. Lots of the subs bid at the last second and the overall bids are rarely "perfect". I fear those things would probably stress and frustrate you. Ideally, you would want a place that does negotiated projects only.
Specifications writer? You'd still have to be able to read and review drawings. Similarly - code consultant.
Computational designer if you're savvy with visual programming at the very least - bonus points for proficiency in programming languages.
Business development/marketing coordinator if you're good at writing and putting together RFP/RFQ packages.
Building scientist/energy modeling/specialist consultant if you're into the quantitative stuff.
I suggest looking into roles in building science. I have ADHD and several autistic traits; I believe today I would be diagnosed as autistic as a child, but that wasn't common 45 years ago, and I mask pretty well. I know several building science professionals who have autistic traits.
I also dislike the drawing-under-deadline (or other pressure) scenarios. Building science is a broad and relatively new field, with nothing but opportunities for learning and growth. It's also an industry remarkably open to sharing knowledge and accepting others' differences, the polar opposite of architecture in many ways, though architectural skills are highly desired.
If you're not sure what building science entails, perhaps consider watching the Zoom show I started and co-host: https://www.youtube.com/channe.... The most recent show wasn't great but the one before it was excellent:
(I make no money from it and pay all expenses out of pocket, so this isn't really advertising.) There are also about 40 local discussion groups around the US and some in Canada, all free to attend: https://www.thebsandbeershow.c....
There is a mountain of information on this site: https://buildingsciencecorp.co....
You may also be interested in an offshoot of my BS+Beer show and discussion groups, a series of 2-day building science symposiums in various cities all over North America: https://bsandbeerkc.org/introd...
I felt like I was reading my own thoughts, so would like to share my experience. I suffer from the same issues (and suffered intensely in grad school for it). I have been able to change/improve the way that I work over the past few years through some excellent mentorship. Which is to say: I didn't stop being a perfectionist, but I had managers and mentors who were able to show me what to focus on, what to prioritize, etc. Most importantly, I learned why. Like, I was able to make drawings "not perfect" because I learned that there are different kinds of "perfect" drawings. Different audiences, information, etc. Learning the "why" was like adding information to my system, making the process enjoyable and productive... even if the drawings weren't perfect. And if I could, I absolutely would take the extra effort to make things look exactly how I wanted.
Learning these things honestly improved other areas of my life where I've again, suffered anxiety and depression from things not being just so.
I realize this isn't possible for everyone, but it sounds like your previous working environments weren't offering good management, professionally and interpersonally. Maybe find a good mentor or a different sector? High end single-family residential? Your thought to change roles is equally valid though.
Hope things get better for you, you deserve it!
This jibes with my experience. I was able to become the best production drafter I knew despite undiagnosed ADHD and crippling perfectionism by learning to apply my perfectionism to doing "perfectly imperfect" drawings; or, put another way, by aiming to perfectly prioritize what needed to be drawn.
While I don't have OCD, I am autistic and can really relate to what you wrote, so here's my response (or at least part of it).
Your self-identified trait of being a perfectionist is shared with about 95% of people in this industry. You'll need to get over that, because true perfectionism isn't restricted to the task of drawing. It's ok to admit that you just find it boring, or you're in over your head, whatever. You don't owe anybody an explanation, it's your life and career.
Whatever aspect(s) of the profession you do enjoy, get really good at that. Maybe it's not drawing (though I absolutely agree with the person above me who wrote that there's different versions of perfect). For me, it started with my ease with building code and city zoning regulations - suddenly everybody in the office was coming to me and I was pretty much invaluable. Whenever a new code version came out, I made sure to become an expert. Somewhere along the way, I became the office expert at a newly adopted energy code, which then led me to follow a strong interest in building science. I was being sent to courses, involved in every project to some extent, etc.... it was fun, and I was good at it, so of course I eventually got assigned to do other things, which happens in business for better or worse.
At this point in my career, I'm licensed across the country and an owner/partner of a ~25 person firm, and I got here without having to do a single drawing. I'm not even sure I could open Revit. I never wanted to do drawing, so I had to make myself valuable in other ways. You can too, you've just got to figure out what that might be.
In addition to those other suggestions (spec writer is a great one, btw), code expert (within an architecture firm, or at a specialist consultant like fire code), QA/QC, energy modeling, funding expert (think government grants etc) and of course you could always work in an adjacent field. You could work for the government (at any level) or higher education in Facilities Management, Procurement, Project Management, etc etc etc. Literally a million different opportunities if you can broaden your mind outside of the single position known as an architect.
What did you like in high school? - what were, or are, your hobbies or outside interest? - if you could have any job in the world what would it be? - most people switch careers three times over their working years so expect that - your state employment office has analytical tests that pinpoint the jobs you may enjoy and excel at - if you are in graduate school you have critical thinking and organizational skills in your "tool box" which can be applied to any profession you wish - don't let others define you or your future - keep the faith in yourself ...
You just have to find a small office with no crazy deadlines, most likely custom high end residential, It would be great to have someone obsessed with perfection. Sometimes we get very picky clients, like one house completely clad in vals stone 2 1/2" tall with all the grout lines matching all around the house and inside. You have to spend time in those drawings, it's not a sausage factory like many offices do. I had a co-worker who had spent time in a sfr office that spew out like 30 houses a year, and he was incapable of looking at the details with the accuracy and dedication needed. Interior design has become increasingly more detailed and technical so that's also a possible path.
Just wondering how many suggesting spec writing have actually done that full time. If perfectionism is the problem, I'm afraid it is going to be worse as a spec writer.
I don't know what the OP is trying to get perfect in their drawings before a deadline. It might just be making sure details are drawn beautifully. It might be moving walls fractions of an inch to make sure the dimension strings have nice numbers. It might be getting the hatch patterns scaled perfectly. It might be making all the leaders line up and are spaced consistently. These are the types of things I assume are the problem when we're talking OCD and perfectionism.
Now imagine that with all the products the team is getting you information on (which you can't control the quality of, nor the timing of that information), trying to make sure your specifications are written technically correct for those products/materials, and also making sure that you have spaces in the right locations, the right types of punctuations in the right locations, all the referenced standards are up to date and indicating what you want them to indicate, formatting is consistent throughout the project manual, language is consistent throughout, etc. I've seen spec writers worry about making sure the line spacing is just right so they don't have orphaned paragraphs on a sheet, or one or two lines that create a new page. I've seen them fret over putting in blank pages between sections so they can get the first page of every section on an odd numbered (right hand side in a spread) page in the project manual. The debates I've seen over whether spec numbers should be XX XX XX, XX XXXX, or XXXXXX. Now make that happen with consultants and their sections as well if you're really worried about perfectionism.
I agree that many of the qualities the OP is mentioning are qualities that might make them a good spec writer, but I worry that if the OCD and perfectionism is to a level that they struggle producing to deadlines (as stated in the OP) they are going to be worse off in a specifications role. There is just so much more to worry about and get perfect and compulsively obsess over in the specifications. And for a lot of very important parts of the specifications, less individual control to make it right to meet the deadline.
Not only that, but a spec writer will have more projects to worry about and more deadlines to have to meet. Go ask your specification writer how many projects they juggle simultaneously. I've seen conservative numbers suggest that you need at least 1 spec writer for every 100 architects in a firm (possibly less). How many projects can 100 architects work on in a firm? How many of those 100 architects are on multiple projects? How many of those projects are they working on at the same time? How many can them manage at the same time? Now understand that there is one spec writer trying to manage information from those project teams and meeting deadlines every other week or so. Sometimes multiple deadlines a week.
My advice, find someone that can help you with the OCD.
Also, spec writing really isn't an entry level position. You need some experience before you can do well at it. It doesn't need to be a decade or more, but at least a few years where you've been doing CDs and CA on multiple projects would be a good start.
Physical Model Making. Rendering.
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