I'm currently an undergraduate student and being 3 years into Architecture. I've realized that I'm not the brightest candle in the room, after having multiple studios and asking for critiques from other colleagues/internet.
I know that people at the office expect you to have some decent basic knowledge about stuff so they will rest assured that they're not dealing with a newbie, but then, what if I just, let's say... know the basics of the basics? Do I have a chance? Or I have a long way to go?
Schools already do, generally, a poor job at preparing students for the real world so it's tough to find an office willing to put in the time to fill-in the gaps of your education...however, you've not yet graduated so no one should expect you to know much anyways. You will have greater luck finding a job by networking than filling in job adds online since most of these require some previous experience.
Worth noting for the 7th million time but never take an unpaid internship.
But what about if the firm pays you in experience doing unskilled labor & gold stars? Surely taking debt to go work for free at a company that makes millions of dollars a year makes sense.
/sarcasm
May 28, 21 10:18 am ·
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Non Sequitur
Gold stars? I retract my previous statements. Gold stars are totally worth exploitation.
Definitely not. Maybe a broken record here, but architecture school and architecture as a profession are very different. One of my former classmates who was easily one of the worst in regards to design out of our class/very mediocre is now making the highest salary of anyone I know at a very well established firm. There are many factors that contribute to success and most firms are aware of this. Not everyone in a firm is doing design. You're fine. If anything, my suggestion to you is to do other work why you have the chance. Something that is impactful to you that maybe isn't specifically architecture related.
And as other comment suggest never ever ever take unpaid.
There are excellent project managers, businessmen, and technical gurus who are not the best designers - but who possess a good eye for design. Success comes in many forms - You could be a founder of a burgeoning practice who is better at entrepreneurship than design, or an excellent project manager who doesn't care for stylistic musings but is an expert on all technical aspects of construction. Or even a specialized consultant in a particular trade. The king of napkins gets most of the press and adulation but he is only one example - and the most unlikely one - of success. Keep in mind you'll be working with people and for people - a healthy dose of management skills goes a long way.
But I guess if you want to intern for HdeM, UNS, MVRDV and all the starchitect acronyms - then yes, an excellent portfolio or being a former student of the hiring partner helps. The latter especially, given these firms receive hundreds if not thousands of portfolios every week. Its just very difficult to get noticed when there are so many PDFs/bound portfolios competing for attention. Even great portfolios could slip through the cracks.
I was a terrible student and ended up in multiple starchitect's offices. It's doable if you hustle.
May 28, 21 11:00 am ·
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Jay1122
did you end up being a head PA/PM in the starchitect's offices leading fancy projects? By that age people most likely have families and kids. Working 60-80 hrs per week without extra pay is laughable to me. Maybe you can justify you are learning extra when you are junior level. Does the higher ups at the starchitect firm work less? Only exploit the cheap juniors? Just curious.
May 28, 21 4:12 pm ·
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lower.case.yao
Yea, I was at the cusp of transitioning to PM before jumping ship, after leading competitions and coming off another long prestige cultural project. I figured we earn so little as architects anyway, might as well work on interesting projects rather than dull ones.
Become proficient in Rhino, CAD, Grasshopper and Enscape. Don’t worry about Revit, most firms can train for that.
my biggest annoyance is new hires who use Rhino to draft. Please learn how to do proper basic CAD drafting before you leave school to save us all the headache of cleaning up your “Make2D” drawings.
Jun 5, 21 9:36 am ·
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Non Sequitur
Anyone can learn software in a a few days when in an office setting. What students need to be proficient in is proper detailing and sound construction knowledge. That’s what gets jobs.
Jun 5, 21 9:51 am ·
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Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur
That's if you want to become a technician like Non Sequitur and spend your internship pumping out CDs in Revit and fighting with contractors. Of course, there are better roles within architectural practice, even at intern level.
Jun 5, 21 12:54 pm ·
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Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur
Miles, it is relevant but not the essence per se.
Jun 5, 21 1:25 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
daer is one of the only "regulars" I have on ignore. I'll assume his/her/its comments are pertinent and well informed.
Jun 5, 21 2:51 pm ·
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Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur
I am glad you have me on ignore because I don't have the time for yet another quarrel over the fact that Revit production and CA doesn't equal architecture.
Jun 5, 21 3:09 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
Miles, good sarcasm is earned and Daer is just sad that their own adult choices led them to a disappointing career... but then again, who knows? I'm sure there is great Nobel-worthy comments up there but there is no sport in kicking a person when they are already at the bottom.
Jun 5, 21 3:50 pm ·
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Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur
I think it is exceptional that you managed to post-rationalise your failure to become an architect into a success and that you are actually pleased with the pigeonhole you got yourself into since graduating. Please do continue to seek complacency over your career on these forums. The truth might be too painful for you to face.
proper detailing and sound construction knowledge is a skill and knowledge honed throughout ones career. Y’all really expecting students fresh out of school to be able to detail a curtain wall and comment on shop drawings?? That’s our job to mentor. They just need the willingness to learn and good design sense (and have basic software skills per my last comment).
Jun 5, 21 2:28 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
"Y’all really expecting students fresh out of school to be able to detail a curtain wall and comment on shop drawings?"
Yes.
Everyone else has software and basic design skills.
Jun 5, 21 2:48 pm ·
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starling
Let me know where you are finding these fresh grads with the equivalent of years of technical experience on CD and CA work who need little to no mentoring, we would love to hire them!
Jun 5, 21 3:50 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
They don't exist, or at least, they are not common. I blame the schools for not allocating proper time to all facets of the profession.
I came out of grad school able to detail and review shop drawings without much supervision and did CA within my first year. I also had a design portfolio filled with mostly abstract paintings and study (physical) models. Too many assume that school will get them where they want to be... few actually make the effort(s) required. So, top jobs and opportunities go to those who can offer more than pretty pictures (easiest part of the profession, by a country mile). Too bad poor saps like the above ignored wanker never got the memo.
Jun 5, 21 3:54 pm ·
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Non-ASD Jequitarchitectur
If you had a portfolio filled with abstract paintings and ended up getting pigeonholed into production & CA, it is self evident that 1)either your art sucked 2) you didn't have the interpersonal abilities required to assume a primarily architectural role. I have followed these forums for some years and I must note that your communication style reminds me of a classmate who was on the Aspergers / mild Autism spectrum. This would actually perfectly explain your fascination with technical work as well as your unfortunate lack of interpersonal charisma (e.g calling people wankers). Both reasons must be why you ended up being professionally reduced to a technician, instead of growing into an architect.
Listen kid… have some confidence in yo self! if you know how to use AutoCAD and or Revit… firms would love to have a helping hand right now. No firm is gonna want some young punk leading their design department from the start. Get in a firm where you can learn and develop yourself. Preferably a small local firm. Turn yourself into a a human sponge and try to absorb everything that firm does. Learn how a set of drawings get put together. Learn how they drum up business etc… I know you are at the end of the road in education and you have a lot of uncertainty. You sound a lot like me… I was chewed up and spit right out of university. My instructors ingrained in me that I wouldn't amount to a shitstain I thought. Today I am up to par and beyond many of my piers that were “looked up” upon. The moral to my story is everyone develops at a different pace. Some people take longer than others. If you like this profession… stick with it and see where it leads you. It’s an adventure kid. Enjoy it.
Jun 5, 21 7:55 pm ·
·
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Archinect
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Do you necessarily have to be a top-notch student to get a job/intership?
I'm currently an undergraduate student and being 3 years into Architecture. I've realized that I'm not the brightest candle in the room, after having multiple studios and asking for critiques from other colleagues/internet.
I know that people at the office expect you to have some decent basic knowledge about stuff so they will rest assured that they're not dealing with a newbie, but then, what if I just, let's say... know the basics of the basics? Do I have a chance? Or I have a long way to go?
Schools already do, generally, a poor job at preparing students for the real world so it's tough to find an office willing to put in the time to fill-in the gaps of your education...however, you've not yet graduated so no one should expect you to know much anyways. You will have greater luck finding a job by networking than filling in job adds online since most of these require some previous experience.
Worth noting for the 7th million time but never take an unpaid internship.
But what about if the firm pays you in experience doing unskilled labor & gold stars? Surely taking debt to go work for free at a company that makes millions of dollars a year makes sense. /sarcasm
Gold stars? I retract my previous statements. Gold stars are totally worth exploitation.
plenty of firms know that the best students make for the worst interns...underachieving middle of the road students are where it’s at internship-wise
Definitely not. Maybe a broken record here, but architecture school and architecture as a profession are very different. One of my former classmates who was easily one of the worst in regards to design out of our class/very mediocre is now making the highest salary of anyone I know at a very well established firm. There are many factors that contribute to success and most firms are aware of this. Not everyone in a firm is doing design. You're fine. If anything, my suggestion to you is to do other work why you have the chance. Something that is impactful to you that maybe isn't specifically architecture related.
And as other comment suggest never ever ever take unpaid.
There are excellent project managers, businessmen, and technical gurus who are not the best designers - but who possess a good eye for design. Success comes in many forms - You could be a founder of a burgeoning practice who is better at entrepreneurship than design, or an excellent project manager who doesn't care for stylistic musings but is an expert on all technical aspects of construction. Or even a specialized consultant in a particular trade. The king of napkins gets most of the press and adulation but he is only one example - and the most unlikely one - of success. Keep in mind you'll be working with people and for people - a healthy dose of management skills goes a long way.
But I guess if you want to intern for HdeM, UNS, MVRDV and all the starchitect acronyms - then yes, an excellent portfolio or being a former student of the hiring partner helps. The latter especially, given these firms receive hundreds if not thousands of portfolios every week. Its just very difficult to get noticed when there are so many PDFs/bound portfolios competing for attention. Even great portfolios could slip through the cracks.
I was a terrible student and ended up in multiple starchitect's offices. It's doable if you hustle.
did you end up being a head PA/PM in the starchitect's offices leading fancy projects? By that age people most likely have families and kids. Working 60-80 hrs per week without extra pay is laughable to me. Maybe you can justify you are learning extra when you are junior level. Does the higher ups at the starchitect firm work less? Only exploit the cheap juniors? Just curious.
Yea, I was at the cusp of transitioning to PM before jumping ship, after leading competitions and coming off another long prestige cultural project. I figured we earn so little as architects anyway, might as well work on interesting projects rather than dull ones.
As long as roll outs and TIs exist, you can get a job, you didn't say good job.
Become proficient in Rhino, CAD, Grasshopper and Enscape. Don’t worry about Revit, most firms can train for that.
my biggest annoyance is new hires who use Rhino to draft. Please learn how to do proper basic CAD drafting before you leave school to save us all the headache of cleaning up your “Make2D” drawings.
Anyone can learn software in a a few days when in an office setting. What students need to be proficient in is proper detailing and sound construction knowledge. That’s what gets jobs.
That's if you want to become a technician like Non Sequitur and spend your internship pumping out CDs in Revit and fighting with contractors. Of course, there are better roles within architectural practice, even at intern level.
Miles, it is relevant but not the essence per se.
daer is one of the only "regulars" I have on ignore. I'll assume his/her/its comments are pertinent and well informed.
I am glad you have me on ignore because I don't have the time for yet another quarrel over the fact that Revit production and CA doesn't equal architecture.
Miles, good sarcasm is earned and Daer is just sad that their own adult choices led them to a disappointing career... but then again, who knows? I'm sure there is great Nobel-worthy comments up there but there is no sport in kicking a person when they are already at the bottom.
I think it is exceptional that you managed to post-rationalise your failure to become an architect into a success and that you are actually pleased with the pigeonhole you got yourself into since graduating. Please do continue to seek complacency over your career on these forums. The truth might be too painful for you to face.
proper detailing and sound construction knowledge is a skill and knowledge honed throughout ones career. Y’all really expecting students fresh out of school to be able to detail a curtain wall and comment on shop drawings?? That’s our job to mentor. They just need the willingness to learn and good design sense (and have basic software skills per my last comment).
"Y’all really expecting students fresh out of school to be able to detail a curtain wall and comment on shop drawings?"
Yes.
Everyone else has software and basic design skills.
Let me know where you are finding these fresh grads with the equivalent of years of technical experience on CD and CA work who need little to no mentoring, we would love to hire them!
They don't exist, or at least, they are not common. I blame the schools for not allocating proper time to all facets of the profession.
I came out of grad school able to detail and review shop drawings without much supervision and did CA within my first year. I also had a design portfolio filled with mostly abstract paintings and study (physical) models. Too many assume that school will get them where they want to be... few actually make the effort(s) required. So, top jobs and opportunities go to those who can offer more than pretty pictures (easiest part of the profession, by a country mile). Too bad poor saps like the above ignored wanker never got the memo.
If you had a portfolio filled with abstract paintings and ended up getting pigeonholed into production & CA, it is self evident that 1)either your art sucked 2) you didn't have the interpersonal abilities required to assume a primarily architectural role. I have followed these forums for some years and I must note that your communication style reminds me of a classmate who was on the Aspergers / mild Autism spectrum. This would actually perfectly explain your fascination with technical work as well as your unfortunate lack of interpersonal charisma (e.g calling people wankers). Both reasons must be why you ended up being professionally reduced to a technician, instead of growing into an architect.
Listen kid… have some confidence in yo self! if you know how to use AutoCAD and or Revit… firms would love to have a helping hand right now. No firm is gonna want some young punk leading their design department from the start. Get in a firm where you can learn and develop yourself. Preferably a small local firm. Turn yourself into a a human sponge and try to absorb everything that firm does. Learn how a set of drawings get put together. Learn how they drum up business etc… I know you are at the end of the road in education and you have a lot of uncertainty. You sound a lot like me… I was chewed up and spit right out of university. My instructors ingrained in me that I wouldn't amount to a shitstain I thought. Today I am up to par and beyond many of my piers that were “looked up” upon. The moral to my story is everyone develops at a different pace. Some people take longer than others. If you like this profession… stick with it and see where it leads you. It’s an adventure kid. Enjoy it.
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