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What do you think of this floor plan?

284


2152 square foot. (Sorry for the messy sketch.)

 
Dec 1, 20 12:30 pm
SneakyPete

The entrance into a corridor is pretty bad, and your bathrooms aren't very pleasant for the people living there, as they all seem to be adjacent to and entered on the common spaces. It's still a million years above the last set of floor plans, though. For the size, there's much that needs to be improved, but I think you're learning.

Dec 1, 20 12:34 pm  · 
1  · 

Why is it bad that the entrance is into a corridor?

 · 
SneakyPete

Your house is an expression of your ideals, priorities, beliefs, etc. When you enter your home, you want the experience to reinforce those ideals, priorities, beliefs, etc. It's unlikely that a corridor will do that effectively.

 · 
Non Sequitur

please refer to all of our previous comments.

Also, you need a better narrative.  Why is storage so prominent while one bedroom, the main entrance, and one living space so tiny?  Why are the stairs not oriented parallel to the main door and celebrated with a double height space instead of being cast away as purely necessary?  Why a flat roof vs pitched or angular? Skylights? Light wells? rational for windows?  etc.  all fundamental questions that should take precedence over moving squares on graph paper.

Dec 1, 20 12:41 pm  · 
 · 

I guess that means you think it's crap. :(

Dec 1, 20 12:45 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

See my edit to my above comment. it's not specifically crap. it's just missing intent and hierarchy.

1  · 
tduds

It's better than what you've posted before, but it's not yet good. The improvement itself is a good direction, though, and you should find that encouraging. Keep workin' at it.

1  · 
randomised

I think it would be handy to access the storage from inside the house as well. 

Dec 1, 20 12:49 pm  · 
 · 
Almosthip

Which direction is north?  

Dec 1, 20 1:01 pm  · 
 · 

Opposite of the balcony.

 · 
Almosthip7

Pro tip! North should always be top of page. Always.

1  · 
SneakyPete

* exceptions exist

4  · 
Almosthip

I would get 20 lashings from superiors if north not be to the top

1  ·  1
Non Sequitur

slightly skewed, but still primarily pointing to the top is also acceptable.

 · 
SneakyPete

Your sheet is 24x36. The building is a narrow, long bar running North-to-South. Fit's very nicely if North is to the left. What do you do?

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Pete, easy, you abandon the project.

2  · 
Almosthip

I would orientate the project so north was at the top of the page. I have lots of "other" things like notes, or wall schedule to put on page as well. Lots of room for everything.

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Almosthip

I did plans for a school where the wings of the school were 45 degrees off of each side of north, still put north to top of page and drew everything on the 45.

 · 
Jaetten

North is always up, unless in the Southern Hemisphere :)

 · 
SneakyPete

I'm not saying you're wrong to do it that way. I just think the likelihood of error based on match lines and splitting plans is higher than pointing North left.

 · 
Almosthip

I fear the lashing.....the lashings

2  · 
tduds

Sneaky: Smaller scale plans on the A100s with callouts. Enlarged quadrant plans of north half and south half in the A600s. North is up throughout ;)

1  · 
Almosthip

This right here...will make the masters happy!!

 · 
SneakyPete

More wasted time and paper, all for what?

 · 
Almosthip

We charge for printing by the page...so ya...extra cash with more pages!!!

1  · 
tduds

I once had an old timer encourage us to print more because it was good for profits. Hilarious.

1  · 

Big picture stuff - have all the bedrooms on the main floor and move the kitchen and dining to the upper floor.  Create an entry sequence from the main floor that is open to the second floor to better connect the spaces.  Make the southern most bedroom into an office accessible from the entry hall.  

Work on the functional layout, sightlines, and clearances of the bathrooms

Dec 1, 20 1:03 pm  · 
2  · 

The kitchen and dining is on the upper floor.

Dec 1, 20 1:06 pm  · 
 · 

I'd remove the upper floor bedroom and replace the main floor living room. Then expand and relocate the kitchen and dining while still connecting the 1st and second floor via a 2 story entry hall.

 · 
SneakyPete

If you're here to learn, listen and learn. You don't need to agree with people, but consider you're talking to folks who get paid to become experts. If you're here just for attaboys and approbation you'll probably not have a nice time. 

Dec 1, 20 1:36 pm  · 
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Have I not listened?

Dec 1, 20 1:44 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

we've all given you excellent advice in this thread. take some time to consider it before setting it on fire.

 · 

Setting the advice on fire? ;)

1  · 

May I ask, does any of you know of a Swedish architect called Gert Wingårdh? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://www.wingardhs.se

Dec 1, 20 1:50 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Not personally but I know some of their work, solid Nordic stuff...

 · 

A more detailed drawing. By the way, is "dining" a good way to describe where you sit and eat do you think? My English is not the best.

Dec 1, 20 4:19 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

A bedroom right off the entrance hall is very peculiar.

4  · 
Jaetten

Dining room, or simply ‘open plan kitchen/diner’ would be a good description.

1  · 

Here is five minutes worth of work. Not sure if it makes it any better.


2  · 
SneakyPete

I'd flip the utility and bedroom on l1

 · 
SneakyPete

Pleh, views and entry fighting with each other.

 · 
Non Sequitur

It’s missing 3 saunas.

1  · 

Pffft - everyone knows you sauna in an out building.

3  · 

So then you only have two bedrooms and a very small living room on the second floor. And no door between the two living rooms.

 · 
tduds

Why do you need three bedrooms? Why do you need two living rooms? Why do you need a door between living rooms?

1  · 
SneakyPete

Yeah, a bit of improv would really help out here, I think. Gotta have constraints. Can't make diamonds without pressure.

 · 

Hobby - it's a bubble diagram meant to represent spaces, not a drafted floor plan.  If you want more they you're going to have to pay me for my time. 

 · 

Aha, but it sure will make it bigger, right?

 · 

Maybe it's not so important to have bedrooms very protected in Sweden, with it's own bathroom right from the bedroom. ? I mean maybe we have a little bit different culture, I have seen it before. 

Dec 1, 20 4:31 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

It's personal taste, and frequently cultural, but most humans I know would prefer the bathroom to be their own if they own the house, at least for the master suite.

1  · 
Jaetten

Make the upper level bathroom an en-suite, accessed via the closet. Downstairs lounge could become a snug, however having one bedroom up and the rest down seems odd. Move the stairs to be visible from the entrance. Given the scale of the house, a 1200mm double door with side lights would be good. 

Dec 1, 20 5:02 pm  · 
 · 
citizen

That dead-end in the kitchen is truly deadly.  Shorten the island by 3 feet (.9144 meters for the purists) to make it freestanding, and avoid 40 years of frustration in the most active space in the house.

Dec 1, 20 7:22 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

architects don't think about floor plan. we think in section.

Dec 1, 20 7:52 pm  · 
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tduds

I think in three dimensions. Sometimes four.

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

braggart !

1  · 
citizen

Pfffffft...



2  · 
Non Sequitur

Here's a recent archinect post with a great landlocked stair layout with space + skylight.  This is what we're trying to hammer down.  A stair can be more than just a stair.  Ditto for an entrance, double ditto for open living space: 


Dec 1, 20 9:36 pm  · 
4  · 

Maybe these two are better?

1.
2.


Here is a completely different house that I find ingenious!

3.



Dec 2, 20 9:25 am  · 
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Almosthip

Why do all the bedrooms have exterior doors?  Some of those bedrooms are going to be difficult to layout furniture.

 · 

I'm sure they are not in the way of the furniture.

 · 
Almosthip

You sure?

 · 

Yep.

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SneakyPete

The owner spends more time in the study than the bedroom, but makes the kids play in their rooms, since if they played in the living room the owner would never be able to concentrate. This is not snark, I find narratives about the clients and their lives to be helpful, more so if they're based on discussions with the clients themselves.

3  · 
Almosthip

Please arrange some furniture in these two rooms. Do you have more than one option for layout?

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SneakyPete

Bed headboard against n / s wall, dressers on opposite wall, doors stay closed, depending on scale. Windows might be high sills with built ins? Not great, but most apartments being built in 2020 are worse.

1  · 
SneakyPete

HOBBY, ask your parents (if they are still with us and you are on good terms) to describe how they got on when you were growing up. Treat it as if you were designing a home for them. I think perhaps much of what you are drawing is based in your own personal history, and one of the important skills an architect has is the ability to put their own needs and preferences aside in favor of what the client has asked for (unless they ask for shit, then it's an exercise in diplomatically telling them their ideas are shite).

 · 

Someone has to have saved that house design that Balkins cooked up. If you do, please post it here. I recall it being quite similar to #3 up there.

2  · 

I think I can imagen how other people think and live, but not totally of course.

Dec 2, 20 12:25 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

How do you spend your days indoors, what do you do where and how does that relate to the time of day and views of the exterior, position of the sun, the changing of seasons etc. Keep a spatial diary of some sorts to map your whereabouts. The Möbius House by Ben van Berkel might be a useful reference too...

 · 
SneakyPete

Include other people in your hobby. Ask friends to be pretend clients. Make a game night out of it. You get "clients," they get a cool floor plan.

1  · 
tintt

I like it. I don't love it, but I like it. 10 times better than some design-build drafter nonsense that landed on my desk today for me to fix where you go through one bedroom to get to two other bedrooms and there is both a dinning room and a dining room. Both.

Dec 3, 20 12:48 am  · 
3  · 

I'm thinking this property/ground/land for the first house.https://www.google.se/maps/pla...

Dec 3, 20 6:35 am  · 
2  · 
Jaetten

Nice site. There's the possibility for some fantastic views! When thinking of your roof, think of the drainage for melting snow, and how the snow load will affect the structure.

1  · 
Jaetten

I presume the large 'store' you have had on some of the plans is for boating/canoeing supplies?

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Non Sequitur

how much does a lot cost in that area?

 · 

Six bushels of lutefisk.

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x-jla

I’d be happy living in a Coleman tent on that site.

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Jaetten: Store? Do you mean storage? No, what makes you say that?

1  · 

Non Sequitur: I don't know, but I guess the house and the site together would cost about 1.180.000 dollar/1.000.000 euro.

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Jaetten

Hobby, there’s a huge lake nearby. If I had that near my home, I’d be on the water every chance I had.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Why can't I live in this?

The best house on the street so far.

1  · 

Haha, oh dear.

 · 

Almostship: 


Dec 3, 20 1:14 pm  · 
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Almosthip

your beds are smaller than your doors.

 · 
Almosthip

You must have Little people living here

 · 
Non Sequitur

what is this, a bedroom for ants?

2  · 
SneakyPete

Start using grid paper at the very least, so you can designate units and be consistent.

 · 

If the doors into the bedrooms are around 2'-8" wide . . . .

There really aren't any option for laying out the room even with a twin bed . . . .


 · 
tduds

Maybe its a house for monks.

1  · 

I think you can fit in a dubble closet witch is about 39.3 inch long. (1,2m)

Dec 3, 20 1:55 pm  · 
 · 
Almosthip7

I just don’t understand why each bedroom needs its own exterior door. What is the purpose of this? To make it easier for the teenagers to sneak out, or even the toddlers can escape.

 · 

It's nice to go out in the garden.

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Almosthip

till your toddler is half way down the street and your still sleeping in bed

1  · 
Almosthip

And then the 7 year old made a mud pie and brought it inside to her kitchen playset, draggin her boots and mud all in with it.

 · 
Almosthip

Winter comes and the draft around the door has gave little Jimmy a shiver

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Non Sequitur

unlimited budget and unlimited site but yet looking at single bed layouts and 4' long closets. Priorities are nowhere close to where they should be.

1  · 
Jay1122

Wow, you are still doing hand sketch schematic plan? Someone really needs to teach him about "design concept" rather than worrying about bed orientation or pantry location. I thought you are doing Money is no problem state of the art custom made dream house and not some boring cookie cutter apartment layout. You look exactly like those 1st year architecture students doing program arrangements until the critics forced them to break away from it with various exercises in order to dive into something deeper and creative. Take a look at Peter Eisenman's case study house. Explore architecture like a language with your own expression. Not all things have to be logical or practical. Shift your paradigm out, maybe then you can entertain us with some interesting design. If you want various efficient cookie cutter layouts, just download a plan book.

Dec 3, 20 2:51 pm  · 
 · 

​I think all four houses posted here are great.

 · 
Jay1122

OP, I think you serve a great example for others to see. If you love architecture, consider go to an architecture school. Once you elevate your paradigm to a new level, you would start to understand what I am talking about. While they don't teach you much actual practice. The ability to see beyond the superficial layer is critical. And remember, as architects, successful ones, your goal is not simply produce drawings. It is to sell the ideas and convince your client of your skill and expertise. It is especially true in high end residential design market. So many architects, so little rich clients. I don't think I will ever see your finished design. But I want you to think, If people on the forum is your client on a presentation. How would you sell your design to me, what is so good and unique about it that I will turn down others and spent multi mils build your design. Bed orientation or pantry location won't cut it. And neither does $ value, because developer house is always cheaper.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Jay, you're very late to the party. We've all previously attempted to explain this to the OP on more than one occasion. Talk about design and grand ideas don't work here so that's why we've broken it down into bite-size pieces and serve them in a toddler spill-proof bowl.

1  · 


But it looks good don't you think?

Dec 3, 20 4:19 pm  · 
 · 

So you copied someone's design and passed it off as your own? Weak.

Did you try and cram a floor plan into the façade or did you copy that too?  


 · 

I have not made any or the houses in this thread, I never said I did. I just wanted to see if you were as critical to a real architect. Swedens best, Gert Wingård as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

It was quite funny to see you tell me how I should think instead and not act like such an amateur. Now I know how seriously I should take your criticism.  ;)

https://bostad.skandiamaklarna...
https://www.arkitekthus.se/obj...
https://www.arkitekthus.se/obj...
https://www.arkitekthus.se/obj...

Dec 3, 20 4:33 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

What's funny is that even after we've actually helped you, you're still unaware of what design is. Look through the pictures of those houses, you'll see intent with the room layouts and windows. These are not particularly high-design spaces, and that U-shape one is very questionable, but I'm sure there was a paying client at one end with such requests. You can't even copy a simple design, let alone it's exceptionally simple guiding principles.

This one is better than your other 3 examples: https://www.arkitekthus.se/obj...

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Almosthip

Architecture is very subjective. Im currently in a design studio with 5 Critics who analyze our designs every week. These critics are all Architects. Usually I can make 2 of the 5 happy with my designs every week, and its usually not the same 2 every time. One thing everyone here one this forum agreed about is that these floor plans you tried to pass of as your own are WAY better than ones you previously presented. You have totally miss the point we all are trying to teach you.

1  · 

I'm obviously not as good as a real architect. Anyone can understand that, that's why I call myself HOBBY architect.

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Non Sequitur

You're obviously not good at your hobby either.

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tduds

95% of architecture, hobby or otherwise, is responding to criticism. It's how you get better.

 · 

The thing is Hobby, I wouldn't call any of the designs you posted as 'good'..


Also I'm not certain any of the homes you listed are from Wingård.  I could be incorrect though as my Swedish is not very good.  

 · 

Non Sequitur: I think it's ugly.
Chad Miller: Fake news then? *LOL*

 · 
Wood Guy

Hobby, your sketches bear only a passing resemblance to the original designs. The original designs are objectively better than yours. The suggestions posted here would make your plans better, possibly as good as the original designs.

 · 

Hobby - Wood Guy didn't miss that one. Your sketches really are that bad and look little like the work you copied.

 · 

Hobby - here, this took me 10 minutes including the time to post.

Compared to . .  

Try using some trace paper and a scale.  It will make copying floor plans a lot easier for you.  I also find it's nice to be able to overlay your layouts as you progress in your design.  


1  · 
tduds

Now there's a floorplan I can tear apart on its design flaws!

2  · 

Chad Miller: I can still understand both sketches.

 · 
Wood Guy

Hobby, I did miss that one--I think I clicked on all of your links but only have so much time to play your little game and did not click around the site. That plan does look much better actually drafted to scale, but I still think it's by far the worst of the options shown, for the same reasons everyone else here thought it wasn't good. I'm not interested in playing games so good luck with your "hobby."

 · 

Of course you can Hobby - you have the original to look at. Now look at the elevation you copied. When a 'sketch' is as loose as yours things like scale, size, and proportion are non-existent. Architecture is the thoughtful creation of space. Kind of hard to create that without scale, size, and proportion.

 · 

Hobby -

15 minutes

Which is easier to understand?


3  · 
Non Sequitur

Chad, if you're going to redo the house, can you at least change the awful parapet cap flashing? Why bother with nice exterior cladding if you're going to finish it that way?

1  · 

I'm sorry but I can still understand a simple sketch, it's all about the idea and it's easy to imagen the sizes.

 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Eh, Wingårds is good, but I think Tham & Videgård is better.

 · 
randomised

I’ll repeat my initial comment here:


Dec 3, 20 4:46 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Some commitment to "trolling" then... even has a delusional personal website to catalogue bad designs.

 · 

Merry Christmas! :-D

 · 
citizen

My rap name is T-Roll. I'm calling my lawyer.

2  · 

Hobby - this is prime example of why it's important to have good presentation skills - visual, verbal, and written.  

You may have copied what you perceive as good architecture but your drawings where so poor most of us couldn't tell what we where looking at.  The 'scale' of your copied plans and elevations are wildly inconsistent which make them hard to read.  The relationships between solid and void in the plans is completely lacking.  You're copied elevations are lacking any type of line weight and suggestion of material.  


Dec 3, 20 6:26 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

(typos, dude!)

 · 

Meh, it's not like Hobby is going to actually read any of this. Also my blood sugar was really low. Surprised the text was that legible to be honest.


That or I'm trolling Hobby since he has trouble with the English language.  

1  · 

Amazing real architects can't read a simple drawing and see the big picture. I can. :-D

Dec 3, 20 9:54 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

no, you can't. not even close.

 · 

I obviously can.

 · 
Non Sequitur

You obviously don’t know what those words mean.

 · 

Hobby - you can't see the big picture. You took a bubble diagram and interpreted it literally.

 · 

But we all have different taste, you don't have to like it just because an architect like it.

Dec 3, 20 9:57 pm  · 
 · 

You also can't seem to figure out the 'reply' option on this site.

 · 
tduds

"you don't have to like it just because an architect like it." 

Wasn't that your whole gambit here, though? Posting another architects plans as your own to "gotcha" us into criticising something that (in your estimation) we'd have praised had it come from "an architect"

 · 

Most people talked about that I know nothing about architecture as if that was the only reason to not like my ideas.

 · 
Non Sequitur

It's just one of many reasons.

1  · 

Exactly, you are starting to get it now. Good boy.

 · 

Hobby - you're not getting it.

People where saying your designs where bad and that you don't understand architecture.  Your copying of several bad designs done by an architect as proof we're only being critical of your 'work' because you're not an architect shows you REALLY don't understand much about design or architecture.  

2  · 
Non Sequitur

Again, I don't think you understand the vibe here. We've tried very hard to describe design and intent and all you're able to do is move tiny squares around. You have demonstrated no imagination and no understanding of the fundamentals of design.

 · 

Well then Wingård does not understand architecture either.

 ·  1

Chad Miller: It's it spelled "people were" instead of "people where"?

 · 
Non Sequitur

Nope, we're speaking specifically about your aptitude. I'm curious to know what it is that you do for a living (that is not a hobby).

 · 

You have all talked about his houses in this whole thread. Don't try to make anyone think otherwise. :-D

 · 
Non Sequitur

That's why you'll remain a mediocre floorplan enthusiast. We are all able to see a bigger picture. You're the only one who can't.

 · 

No I don't Chad Miller. From what I can see you can only reply to posts, and the last reply, not any reply. Can you help me figure that out?

Dec 4, 20 10:29 am  · 
 · 

See the little button below the last post in a discussion, click it then type in the box and hit 'enter' to post.

 · 

But then you reply to the latest post in the thread, not to a certain post IN the thread.

 · 
SneakyPete

Perhaps we need a HOBBY WEB DEV

 · 

You sure do.

 · 

Hobby, - try quoting the person you're responding to?

 · 
Non Sequitur

Chad, don't make it harder for her than it already is.

 · 
t a z

"Precedent study" scale drawings:

https://www.arkitekthus.se/wp-...

Source: https://www.arkitekthus.se/pro...

Sverige, Jönköping, AH#062-210S Individual, Gert Wingårdh

Dec 4, 20 10:58 am  · 
2  · 
t a z

Bonus site visit:

https://www.byggahus.se/fredag...

 · 
t a z

On the market!  

Asking is 8,500,000 SEK (~$1 Million USD)

https://bostad.skandiamaklarna...


 · 
Jay1122

OP, You presented some fantastic modern house done by others up there. Those houses are clean and nice. First of all, do not mistake your floor plan sketch with those houses. Those built houses actually considered sites, orientations, glazing exposures, views, landscapes, materials, assembly systems, budgets, functions, etc. Even just look at those roofs, it is beyond your capability to properly design and detail them. Simply having same floor plan layout does not mean same design. 

Then I want to talk about design for challenging yourself and existing architecture versus design for a real project to be built. The projects you showed are real houses with real budgets. They try to stick to the box shape for money reason. Honestly they are much better than the boring spec house, but it is still considered boring in the field of academic architecture. Modernism is long ago. As I understand it correctly, you are doing it as hobby, for fun, so why not let your imagination take it further. Explore some fun compositions and ideas. Less is more turned into less is bore. It is not like you have budget constraints or needs to detail it or have construction schedule to worry about.

Now look at a fun one and get inspired. 

Stairway House



Dec 4, 20 11:37 am  · 
 · 

I am more interested in making floor plans and villas, but I sure like to look at buildings like that as well. That one was awful though.

The first house was edited for a site. But I don't think it's crazy to make typhus as we say in Swedish, don't know what you call it.

 · 
tduds

I mentioned in another thread that "Floorplan Enthusiast" was a better title than "Hobby Architect" but you got all mad about it.

1  · 

Simple villas are also architecture.

 · 
Non Sequitur

so are tool sheds, chicken coops and piles of cut lumber, if you squint hard enough.

 · 

This thread is about Gert Wingård, not me.

 · 
Non Sequitur

that, it is not.

1  · 
SneakyPete

Do you take someone else's test results to the doctor to make sure they're any good?




What a dick.

Dec 4, 20 11:52 am  · 
 · 

That's a very bad comparison.

 · 
SneakyPete

I don't care what you think. I took you at face value and your deception was a dick move. Fuck off.

 · 
randomised

The “deception” could/should be a lesson in humility.

1  · 
randomised

I think it's quite funny, a hobbyist scribbles floor plans of built works by a solid architecture firm and gets ripped a new one...

Dec 4, 20 11:55 am  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

Hobby gets ripped because of her history AND inability to understand design. The bad scribbles by themselves, while not terrible, don't say much about her ability to see what is important.

 · 
randomised

Those scribbles reflect the built projects quite well I think as for design intent, the proportions are the same, the areas, and a bed room is still a bed room etc. in cad, old skool hand drawn or ugly scribble. I’ve seen worse scribbles by principals of better buildings. Too much focus on the (lack of) aesthetics of the drawings instead of the spatial potential/qualities of what was drawn.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Yep, my clients only pay for floor plans.

 · 
gibbost

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite scenes in High Fidelity.  After a guy comes in looking for a particular record, this is the exchange that takes place:

Louis: You guys are snobs. 

Dick: No we're not.                                                                        

 Louis: Seriously, you're totally elitists.  You feel like the under-appreciated scholars, so you shit on those who know less than you . . 

Rob, Barry, Dick: No                                                                          

Louis:  . . . which is everybody.                                                                  

Rob, Barry, Dick: Yes

Dec 4, 20 12:18 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

I was cleaning out some old attic storage the other week and found some floorplans I drew as a kid (maybe 7 or 8 years old) that looked a lot like this.

Not trying to insult, just sayin'... I got better at it. It took a couple decades of practice but I did. There's still time for you if you care to listen.

Dec 4, 20 12:29 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Yes, the ability to learn and listen is a pretty important thing. OP does not realize that most of us here A: make a living doing this shit, and B: Actually taught design studios hig-level setting.

Although I don't have any copies left, the shit I drew as a kid definitively had more creativity that the OP.  Functionally, perhaps they were worse tho, but at least I had secret passageways and movable walls, indoor pools, etc.  I can't imagine someone being content with mediocrity from the very start.  

 · 

Less is more.

 · 
Non Sequitur

less is a bore

 · 
SneakyPete

Listen. Learn. Or, you know, be a rock solid shit and go the Borat route without the humor.

1  · 

There is a difference between boring humor and fun humor. But maybe you prefer British humor.

 · 

I'm not trying to be an architect, just having fun with it.


Dec 4, 20 12:33 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

and we are architects having a great deal of fun amongst ourselves debating the fundamentals of design using your "hobby" as fuel for discussion. You'll learn a great deal if you pay attention and read the tangential conversations here. 

Note that this replay is sans snark.

1  · 
tduds

Then go have fun. Don't ask for feedback you clearly don't want. Go be happy.

 · 

Well this was fun. Sort of.

Dec 4, 20 12:40 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

I properly enjoyed it, you really showed us smug architects!

1  · 
SneakyPete

Your definition of fun exactly matches what your hobby floor plans indicate.

1  · 

Hobby - it seems like you've has been copying parts and pieces of other people's work without understanding it and passing it off as your own floor plans.  

Dec 4, 20 1:43 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Nah, it really just was a simple test and people failed the test, couldn’t see the architecture or design intent because of their preconceptions of the person posting it.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Rando, not the case. The OP is not that clever. Everything boils down to small boxes on plans for her and was looking for justification for her creative short comings. The example is an ok house but most of the size and layout criticisms are likely in response to the small site (or client), something missing in the sketch plan originally presented. Ditto for orientation, windows, etc. Our initial responses were to push for more spatial design instead of revising floor plans as the OP obsessively has done in the recent past.

1  · 

Talk about simple sketches.
https://christoffersenweiling....

Dec 5, 20 7:28 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

You know why you're an idiot? You're like the mom looking at a Jackson Pollock, and proclaiming to the world, you're kid can do better, now pay me $90 million. This drawing was completed by someone with years of skill, and the knowledge that the consumer of this information was looking at a website. It's a titch beyond a diagram, made for print, and placed on a website. If you think this architect solely relies upon "plans" for the creation of their work - despite FLW proclaiming "plan is the generator" - you are the mom, at MoMA. Now, do the work, or I'll start my bombing campaign.

 · 
randomised

That drawing was completed by an intern, but that's not the point...you and many here couldn't see the architecture in some rough floor plans of some very fine architecture. You failed the Rorschach-test and should now hand in your stamp and license and call yourself a drafter from now on.

 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

İ never critiqued the plans you simp, I've criticized the idea that plans are architecture.

 · 
randomised

Who says that floor plans and floor plans alone ARE architecture? Weird assumptions again b3ta, cheers!

1  · 
randomised

You still can’t see the architecture in those plans if all you’re on about is “plans are not architecture”...so hand in your stamp drafter!

 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

You really are dim. Context isn't even remotely a thing in your narrow mind. The fact that I can visit the linked website, and see those plans in the context of the elevations, sections, and built thing, gives me everything I need. His chicken scratch does not.


1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

.

 · 
randomised

If you can't even see the architecture in a chicken scratch floor plan you shouldn't be allowed to call yourself an architect...

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Chicken scratch from an amateur, who has demonstrated no ability to architect, in previous posts, you fucking hack. Listen doutch, the only one you're impressing is you. I'm sure it makes for food conversation, I'm sure your girlfriend loves it, but me nah. I'd rather get back to you denying your slaver past.

Part of Architecture is coherence in communication of the idea, he failed, I don't care what Nordic architect he cribs. 

You mealy mouthed Dolt.

 · 
randomised

If an amateur scratches the floor plan of Villa Savoye in the sand by clutching a stick between their ass cheeks while twerking on the beach it is still the floor plan of Villa Savoye. That you don’t (want to) see that proves to me that you are the true hobbyist here, unworthy of a license or a stamp, judging books by their covers...hahaha hack!

1  · 

I didn't say it's the same as my sketches or my floor plans. I only thought it was interesting with how little this drawing shows. But of course you interpreted what I said completely wrong since I din't explain in detail what I meant, just like a simple drawing or sketch.

Dec 5, 20 1:22 pm  · 
 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm responding to your incessant desire to demonstrate "architecture" as floor plan. It's not, you dope.

3  · 
proto

Hint: having to explain the drawing is a sign that the drawing isn’t communicating what you want it to

1  · 
citizen

There's nothing that gets architects going like a floor-plan clinic!

Fix This Plan! could be a good thread where someone posts a plan (famous, work-in-progress, whatever) and then critiques and kibitzes follow underneath as replies.  Fun and thought would ensue.

Dec 5, 20 2:58 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

Can I be the person who gets sanctimonious when I disagree with the critique?

 · 
citizen

Only if you reject all logic and make it personal.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Ooo, oh. Can I be the person to recommend rotating the plan 42degrees? That works all the time.

1  · 
citizen

Boys, boys... you're getting ahead of yourselves.

 · 
Almosthip

Ill bring maple syrup

3  · 
Non Sequitur

I always carry my own maple syrup. I would need to turn in my tuque and canadian badge eh if I did not do so. Sorry.

1  · 
Jaetten

I've got maple syrup, do I get a Canadian badge?

 · 
Almosthip

Jaetten... you must bow to Gretzky first

2  · 
Non Sequitur

Gretzky? Says the albertan... bow to Lemieux and Roy too. 8-)

2  · 
proto

“Tuque”?

 · 
Non Sequitur

It's french-canadiana for toque.

2  · 
Almosthip

Bonhomme


 · 
Jay1122

Lol funny how people gets worked up over OP's copied plan. The thing about plan is, they are never wrong. People have their preferences. No one can say your plan is wrong, even if it does not have logical sense. Look at Robert Venturi's mother house or perhaps the book complexity and contradiction of architecture.( POMO BTW, because modernism gets so boring and repetitive after a while)

I don't care about those plans and will never critic it, my problem is that you are just endlessly doing various floor plan sketches thinking "schematic floor plan=architecture design" which is very insulting. If your interest is a real buildable architecture work rather than a challenging academic philosophy art piece. It is fine, although weird for "Hobby". Let me give you the real challenge and experience what it means to design a real constructable house.

Pick any of your favorite floor plan design, or copy from an architect's posted schematic plan. Unfortunately, you can't copy their CD set LOL. Show me Site plans, 3D models, Longitudinal Sections, Transverse Sections, diagrams if you like. Realistic Exterior renderings, interior renderings. These are just the easy SD deliverable. Then show me your full building wall sections. Glazing head jamb sill details, roof details, ceiling details. Finish plans. If you want to be even better, preliminary structural systems, MEP systems. With these, we will be able to understand your actual design.

Go and surprise me OP, please. Because if you can finish all these, you won't get so fixated on your schematic plans anymore.

Dec 5, 20 6:05 pm  · 
1  · 
Jay1122

OP, I want to talk a little about your Idol Gert Wingårdh and the house that you used to trick people. That house example you copied to trick people honestly is not that impressive to me at all. Typical high end modern box building with flat roof, large glazing, cladding system, clean white interior that you will see in any average high end residential design firm. My assumption is that it is a project won through Gert Wingårdh's firm reputation for some rich clients. Most if not all work done by his employees. Anyway just my guess, it is not unusual at all. Starchitects do not design every little projects. I couldn't even find publications of the house you copied, no one cares about it. This building is done in 2015. if it was done in 1929, then this house will be considered avant garde master piece instead of the villa savoye. Just because it is out of a starchitect's office does not automatically make it master piece.

Now as for works illustrating the architect's true ability and style. Arch daily spotlight-gert-wingardh now these works I really dig. Very playful forms, materials, spaces, details. Hey, if you are going to copy, copy from the actual good stuff. And it takes way more than schematic plan to illustrate those designs LOL. And most of the key elements in his buildings are the detailing.

Dec 5, 20 10:00 pm  · 
1  · 
Jay1122

Talking about residential work, I got to share this guy. Prizker winner but still remains one man architect. Damn respect. If I am that successful, Id be taking commissions after commissions and grow the firm into an international business. $$$

spotlight-glenn-murcutt Really good works. More than simply eye candy.

 · 
t a z

See my "research" links above. The particular residence in question is a variant of a pre-fab series offered by Arkitekthus.

1  · 
t a z

...and not even the prototypical example of the series. I bet OP resides in the same city since the posted photo came from an active real estate listing. The site the house is on, however, is still pretty sweet.

 · 
randomised

So now it went from grilling OP because of shady drawing skills to going after the original architect of the copied work, all just to not have to admit one couldn’t spot the architecture even if the plan hit you in the face ;-)

1  · 
Jay1122

1st of all, my grill on OP is different, if you can actually read comments. As you can see I never critic the plan layout he copied. It is a clean box plan, it works as intended. As far as my opinion on the starchitects work, It is my thoughts. That house is probably just a reputation gig. I bet the architect works on real buildings like the museum and big towers as those featured on the spotlight post I linked. 

And if you think that sketched plan off original work can be called architecture, then You may also think a barn shed or American spec build house is also architecture. Unfortunately to me, those are just utility boxes not architecture. Also, floor plan alone does not represent the original work. The schematic floor plan is just a schematic floor plan, showing the layout of the program, it doesn't even show the wall assembly. Let alone represent the whole finished construction. Hell, by your logic you could even argue door schedule is also architecture and people fail to see the magnificent master piece behind this Corb's famous villa savoye door schedule. 

I am actually surprised to see you take that stance. I thought you are a practicing architect, shouldn't you know what it takes to finish a CD set to actually present a well designed building? Anyway my posts are not just meant for the OP, he is beyond help. But for others maybe students to know what architecture is as it is an open question one has to search for themselves. Architecture school has values, even thought not related to actual practice and construction.

 · 
randomised

“ And if you think that sketched plan off original work can be called architecture”

that’s the entire point...a sketched plan is critiqued not so much for what it represents but for who supposedly designed it, every design decision is interpreted more negatively because apparently made by an uneducated hack...

 · 
Jay1122

I see, so you think OP is getting unfair treatment. Unfortunately it does not apply to me. I am way past program arrangement in my architecture enlightenment. Anything flies, the only architecture not ok with me, is boring architecture no one takes a second glance. The only reason to make it boring should be budget concerns. Even if the built project gets hate, I think it is successful, because it is inspiring reactions off viewers. 

Well, I honestly think OP is architecturally ignorant and refuses to learn. This is his iteration #XX. Instead of listening or rejecting critiques and move on to the next phase of design like sections, 3D models. He pulled this trick to try and make others look like fool for critiquing starchitect's plan. I wish OP got the balls to accept my challenge of deliverable I listed above for him. But I doubt he can even finish a section drawing.

1  · 
SneakyPete

I think Hobby might identify as she.

 · 
Jay1122

Oh man I just made the typical assumption of architecture as dominantly men's business. Backfired.

 · 
randomised

"I see, so you think OP is getting unfair treatment." 

No, as I see it some people think they know what they are talking about, self-proclaimed experts on all matters architecture, but they can't even see the spatial qualities of a plan when the line-weights are a bit off. And when they've been exposed for judging books by their covers they can't even acknowledge that.

 · 
Jay1122

LOL. Some people do have huge ego. Not unusual in this profession as you already know. Unfortunately that is not me. As far as critique goes regarding what OP presented. If you show up on my final review with only a schematic plan to show as your design, does matter if it is golden ratio gods work. You won't get my critique. I will just kick you out of there so you don't pull down the classmate's intelligence with such lack of effort. 

And honestly that thing is very meh in terms of design. Boring typical box with efficient typical programs. If you swap the fancy cladding with vinyl siding, make the large glazing into smaller punch window. Turn the flat roof into gable shingle. Keep the wall white gypsum board. You will have a typical cheap american spec built box.

 · 
Jay1122

Rather than focused on those boring stuff. Let me present some nice houses. Oh man looking at these only makes me wish I am rich. My passion for architecture only goes deeper. And desire for $$ of course. 

House in Tamandare / Karina Guidolin Arquitetura

Landscape House / TAOA

Tara Villa / IDIN Architects

House in Kobe North / FujiwaraMuro Architects

 · 
Almosthip

I want to live in this house

Howard House Nova Scotia

1  · 

You guys still don't get it, sorry.

Dec 6, 20 6:58 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

We got it. Not a difficult thing here. Not our fault you struggle to keep up, even when we bottle feed you.

1  · 

Ditto.

 · 
SneakyPete

Ditto ditto.

1  · 
Almosthip

dado

1  · 
Wood Guy

Dodo. Or doodoo.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

are we signing baby-shark? do-do-dododo.

2  · 
tduds
SneakyPete
Non Sequitur

the OP and resulting discussion (minus rando’s attempt at playing devils advocate) reminds me of teaching first year studio. As soon as a house was given as project, you knew a significant % of students would regurgitate a variation of the house they grew up in, just worse.  The ones who could not understand criticism and design talk Always faced an upward battle for the rest of the semester. 

Dec 6, 20 10:53 am  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Same folks who think criticism is a personal attack instead of a time tested and useful method of strengthening a design.

3  · 
Jay1122

OP is beyond help. I am actually surprised to see a practicing architect to defend that logic of schematic plan = architecture. But then again, some practicing architects only do detailing or site supervision, or be developer's rep. Never have to worry about design or critical thinking. I have seen many that does not care about design at all. Just do it as a job.

Imagine this, a student prepares a portfolio consist only of famous architect's schematic plans. Corb, Mies, FLR, Louis Khan, etc. and take it to interviews. Then you go and reveal to the interviewer at the end. You guys failed to see the magnificent master piece of architecture behind these collections of schematic plans by world renowned architects. Even just thinking about it makes me laugh.

1  · 
randomised

And you also knew there were teachers at said first year studio who didn't know what they were talking about and were giving a performance because they tried to impress someone who sat in at the pin-up...

 · 
Non Sequitur

Rando, that was never the case with the teaching staff I was involved with at either of my universities. That type of attitude is best reserved for guest crits (often other graduate students) in final reviews. What I'm referring too is everyday student interaction.

 · 

Rando - I get the feeling you had a rough time in studio when you where a kid. Let it go man. Move on Grow as person.

1  · 
randomised

Non, did you ask your students ;-) Just kidding. This is not about someone redrawing their parental home and not being able to deal with criticism, this thread to me is more about critics not being able to deal with criticism, and not being able to identify what they're supposedly critiquing.

1  · 
randomised

Chad, I am not the one here who can't let go of being taken for a ride by a hobbyist ;-)

 · 

Rando - I don't think Hobby took anyone here for a ride other than you. Even if she is a long con troll she's immature, dishonest, and a coward. I personally think anyone who would put this much work into a troll to be a looser without much to look forward to in life. Now I must bid you goodnight as the proposal that dragged me into the office on a Sunday is finished.

Don't stay online too long Rando - you may miss out on something in real life. 

4  · 
randomised

I’ve seen your fancy sketches here to know who was taken for a ride...but okay I’ll play along for your sake. Glad to know you finished your proposal working on a Sunday...I’ve had a great offline weekend with the family, did some electrical works in the house (replaced a bathroom ventilator), did a bit of work from home in the evening and schooled some people on archinect!

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

What are you babbling about now, dumbass?

 · 
randomised

I was talking to Chad b3ta[drafter]

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Yap, Yap, yap. All talk, just plain stupid.

 · 
randomised

Nope, just something that doesn’t concern you, was not addressed to you and clearly goes over your sweet little head, poor draftboy with a stamp.

 · 

Rando has stamp envy and spends way too much time online. Poor baby.

 · 
randomised

I commute by train, no need to feel sorry for me Chad, and about that stamp envy, you’re wrong, I only brought it up because b3ta was being such a drafter.

 · 

Rando -aren't you the one always lamenting against the 'licensed elite' in architecture?

 · 
randomised

Nope, why would I? I am the licensed elite!

 · 

There's a difference between constructive criticism and rudeness.

Dec 6, 20 1:22 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

There is, and that difference lies entirely within the listener.

2  · 
SneakyPete

You're perfect. You're not to blame. You're amazing. You have everything to teach and nothing to learn.

4  · 
Almosthip

Are we handing out participation ribbons?

 · 

As If I have ever said that I am perfect or that I am an architect, I haven't even said that a floor plan is all you need in architecture. What I said is that a floor plan is part of architecture. Jesus!

 · 
Wood Guy

What is "architecture Jesus?"

1  · 
Non Sequitur

This:

Jesus Christ the Divine Architect

Sounds like a shitty Christian rock band from the 90s.... or shitty shock-rock band, also from the 90s. 

2  · 
x-jla

Looks like Jesus is practicing without a license. I’m reporting this it NCARB!

3  · 

You win the internet for the day JLA!

3  · 

I never though architects were this childish. Hilarious that this prank thread got so long. *LOL*

Dec 7, 20 11:04 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

You've missed out on a very good tangential discussion of which very little of it is about you; though you're too stubborn to realise it.

2  · 
SneakyPete

Hilarious.

1  · 

Non Sequitur: That's what's so funny, that it evolved to something I don't have to be part of anymore.

Dec 7, 20 11:19 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Welcome to archinect then. There is guinness on tap but don't you dare change our sweet Neil Young tunes on the jukebox.

3  · 
SneakyPete

Swedish humor doesn't require anything to be found funny by Swedes? Fascinating.

1  · 

I'd say that you never where a part of this Hobby.

 · 
x-jla

One time I heard a shitty drunk guy karaoke a song that I didn’t recognize and I thought it was shit...my friend told me that it was a Clash song.  Later that night, I listened to the original version and it was really good.  Moral of the story, you are the drunk guy singing karaoke and not understanding why no one hears the brilliance of the music.  



Dec 8, 20 9:21 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Accidental reply, ignore.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

But you need a little drunken slur to sing some Clash.

1  · 

The difference here is that the drunken signer is tone deaf and sampling lines and melodies from the Clash, RHC, Cash, Metallica, and Fleetwood Mac, all in the same song.

 · 
Non Sequitur

and what's wrong with that mashup Chad? wait... what decade for the metallica sampling? Because that makes quite the difference.

 · 
randomised

Nothing wrong with a good mash-up! https://youtu.be/n-T0GjrMSs8

 · 
x-jla

Ha, been blasting Metallica ‘Battery’ every morning to wake up my teenage kids for bs online school. Only thing that works is me yelling “mosh pit time” and jumping on their beds. As soon as they hear that sweet intro they are like “oh shit” and brace themselves for the most annoying wake up ever.

1  · 
x-jla

Brilliant

 · 
Non Sequitur

The real mash-up in there Rando are the pant styles.

 · 

Clash from Cut the Crap 

Metallica from St. Anger,

RHCP 'By the Way',

Cash ' A Boy Named Sue'

Fleetwood Mac's 'Strange Times'.  

Mash those together . . .


 · 

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