Never work unpaid gigs... Never.  full stop, shake your head, and re-read that again.

Keep your business and expand it.  Once you've grown, take your profits and hire architects to work for you instead.

Re-read my first sentence.

Before talking about how to find an entry job. Why would you want to get back to architecture if your detailing firm is doing well that you don't want to let go? Is your end goal being a licensed architect owning your own architecture practice and simultaneously owning steel detailing firm? First of all i would expect at least 5-10 years full time work experience to get comfortable to start solo architecture firm. Even just to get license you need 3 years experience and exams, specific depending on your state. Also, never do unpaid internship, not only is it illegal, you don't learn anything because they don't let you do real stuff, probably just filing and bring coffee. You have to decide which one you want as main gig, which one as side gig. My idea is you want architecture as main gig for your passion and steel detailing as side? If that is the case, find entry level jobs and do steel detail as side gig. Don't tell the firm you own a steel detail firm. Work 40 hrs full time in architecture firm, do your steel detail after work and weekend. If you can't handle that workload, don't be that ambitious/greedy. If you go full time entry, i expect your steel detailing experience is a plus.

This thread is perfect for Rick. He's trying to do the same thing, become an architect while owning a business. Hasn't really worked for him so far, but he'll be here soon enough to fill you in on the details.

Had to get the post up about Rick first...

Well at least you're persistent. I suppose you have that going for you. I doubt you'll gain much more insight from this thread than the others you've started asking basically the same thing. 

In fact, looking back at the exchange we had on your first thread, you gave the following as reasons for owning your own firm as an architect:

1. Personal freedom
2. To avoid becoming a slave for the boss as I get older. The older the employee is the more liability he gets considered. That's a fact that I've seen personally
3. The creativity, having the opportunity not to spend my life detailing bathrooms since I can outsource a big part of the construction documents work
4. The chance of making it big and leave a legacy. You will not have your name remembered by working for someone

Sounds like your steel detailing business has given you at least #1 and #2. 

For #3, find another outlet for your creativity. No one said that your work and how you earn a living has to be that creative outlet. 

As for #4, my first thought is "why do you think you're that special" but I realize that maybe that's stifling your dreams which I'm not really wanting to do (though I think a healthy dose of reality might be in order). That said, you can make it big and build a legacy in steel detailing if you wanted to, or in your creative outlet, or in whatever you want. I wonder why you think having your own architectural firm will get you there?

At this point, I don't think you need us to tell you how to become an architect. If you really wanted to, you'd figure out a way to make it happen, even if that meant giving up your business (I wouldn't if I were you, but that's just me). I think what you need to do is figure out if you need to be an architect or if you can accomplish what you want some other way. Good luck.

A couple alternate paths:

Partner with an architect. They get drafters and expert steel detailing, you get arch experience.

Co-locate your office with a small architecture firm - many rent out extra desk space (at least in non-covid times). Pick up work from their side as it becomes available and offer your drafters and technical consulting to them in turn. 

Sell your business/ merge with a design-build shop. Set the terms as you continue to manage the detail drafters while getting some arch experience. 

For the first path, I would love to partner with an arhcitect, I know what I will be getting from them, experience, but how about them? what are they benefit from me? Expert steel detailing? That could be useful for them? but a steel detailing expert is not really crucial for architects. 

Maybe I can help them expand by providing financial support, like paying office rent and expenses, help hiring new staff?and they give me experience in return?  I will need to find a small architectural firm then, big firms will not care much

- The second path is very smart, I will keep it in mind for after covid era.

- For the third path, How the design-build shop will benefit from my drafters? We use Tekla, design-build shops uses other software probably. Revit or AutoCAD for the most part

Let's play a game.

As the owner of a steel detailing firm, let's say an architect with their own architectural firm comes into your office, looking for a job. But they only want to work part time, as they have to answer calls and emails during work hours for their arch firm. And they tell you that they only want to work for a few years before setting up a firm in direct competition with yours.

You'd kick their ass out the door quicker than you can say "get the fuck out of my office!"

What you're asking is so unbelievably greedy, ignorant, and lazy, I'm having a hard time believing that it's real. 

Expand your business, then hire a registered architect to be your b***ch. Done.

You can't get AXP experience in NY from a setting in which you are your architect supervisor's employer, and you can't partner with an architect to get AXP experience in NY, because NY doesn't allow architectural services to be provided in a company with any unlicensed partners, and you also can't get AXP experience from an unpaid internship in NY.  NY is famous for fining firms for these kinds of violations that they mine from license applications. This is at least the 5th one of these threads you've posted about this same scenario in the past year or so, and all of this has been answered several times already.  I'm starting to suspect that these threads are subtle spam attempts for your detailing business.  

first a note about internships: the purpose of internships is to help firms connect to potential future staff and help them learn what they need to become independently capable within an office.

for the most part, truly junior interns have a negative value to a firm. the cost of billable time for management to supervise them and keep them busy is greater than the value of their contribution to work. so firms don't care if you're free, they care if you're talented and open to future commitment. they want someone who might help the firm grow, not merely push lines around in a drawing for a year or two.

and your commitment to your own business strongly interferes with this. on top of being inexperienced you expect to be managed on your own schedule. you'll have your own work on your mind at times when you're trying to do the architecture firms work and it will be a distraction. managing staff isn't a part time job.

this is one of those things where a more experienced employer can see right away what you can't yet, which is that there is no way at all you are going to push yourself hard to integrate within a firm and make their interests your own. you might make it work for a few months but this situation will inevitably turn into a conflict.

you could lie and avoid bringing all this up but that would obviously be hard to ignore once you have business obligations and will only get you in trouble while also damaging your reputation with that employer. don't try to sneak around the issue.

i think you need to be honest with yourself and commit to something. it can be a limited commitment where you decide to run the business and grow it enough to sell within maybe 5 years, then pursue architecture full time.

or you sell yourself to an architecture firm as a valuable consultant with the specific skills related to your steel work. this could be legitimate part time work until you are ready to shift your focus to architecture completely.

maybe bring up this idea with the firm - i think you'll find some firms with specific needs for your experience who would be open to working this way. and it gives you some flexibility to test the environment while keeping your shop going.

Some others have already touched upon this, but I think sometimes hearing something more than once reinforces it for you.  

You are already on a great path that you are not seeing, I think.  You are a specialist, so why revert backwards to being a generalist?  

You have a footing with your steel fabrication business.  I’d say, build upon that, and figure out a way to move that business into a direction that incorporates, or exclusively focuses on architectural steel Design and fabrication.  You don’t need to own a fabrication shop, you can work something out with an existing fabrication shop.

I have a hunch that Design-Build companies may find your services most beneficial.  With your steel business, you are also not geographically bound by license laws.  You can work anywhere and serve anyone.   

I think that you are in a great position...just need to reposition a little. 

1. Simple answer is "With few exceptions to the norm, the answer is NO!"

2. Architects by nature of their own ego (being among the most egotistical profession there is) don't like playing second fiddle to anyone so they won't be a subordinate as much as I don't. Hence, it won't work out.

3. Architects will often not even employ you if they find out in a little bit of background searching and internet searching that you are operating your own business. Unless you are 60+ years old and has 3-4 decades, and a hugely good reputation as a very high end home designer, they won't hire you if you are running your own business. In other words, they don't want to hire their competition.

3B. If they do hire you, they will require that you close down your business and sign a non-compete and non-moonlighting clause that will apply while you are employed and sometimes for a period of time after. 

4. Employees that runs their own businesses are too catty or anti-authority in the sense that they tend to be too untenable and unwilling to take orders. Employers like to be terse and direct in giving their directives. "Do this...." "Do that....". They tend to act like teenagers to parents because the reason people tend to go on their own and start their own business is because they are tired of taking orders and want to be in command. It's a chain of command issue. This is not just an issue in architecture field but any occupation. 

5. Again egos clash. Your ego and your employer's ego who by virtue of being your EMPLOYER feels that they should be in charge and telling you what to do because they are paying you and if they are paying you, they want you to do what they tell you to do without complaint, guff, bitching, or questioning whatsoever. 

While there is more issues involved but the backbone of the rub and issue is significantly an ego thing and certain associated issues that I mentioned. People don't want to hire people who will as soon as they are licensed, leave and start their own firm and when you are already having a business, you are just a few steps from doing that. One is, getting licensed. If you pass the exams, get your AXP hours, pay the fees with NCARB and your state for licensure, it is just a few paperwork and fees and you are off to running your own business and likely taking their clients with you. 

What is their incentive to hire you when you are apparently "half-way" (not literally but figuratively) to going our on your own. Oh lets not forget that if you are providing your own services and using your firm's equipment and office that you are subjecting them to potential issues of dealing with lawsuits from clients that may try to sue you but will name your employer and drag your employer's firm legal issues which will all cost the firm money to get off the hook yet they won't get compensated for it by your client. So your employer would have to then spend more money and sue you or somehow garnish the wages. If you use their equipment and supplies, they can get caught up into nasty liability and even potentially being enjoined because if the work was physically done in their office, on their equipment, they are suppose to supervise the work, review & edit as many times and a final review and then stamp and sign the construction documents and other such work that would need to be stamped even if the project does not require an architect stamp like houses (in many states).... Yet, even if your employer's firm are not contractually associated with the client, the client's lawyers would attempt to enjoin your employer's firm. 

There is this cloudy and muddy issue of law that a person can only be an employee or an independent contractor/business but they can't be both concurrently. 

Firms want to be sure it is clear that you are only their employee and that you have no business whatsoever of any kind. Either, you are an employee to them or an independent contractor. A lot of firms have no need for an independent contractor and if you are running your own business properly, you will NEVER be less expensive than an employee per hour because you would be billing a billed hourly rate which would cover not only your direct hourly rate but your own social security, worker's comp, health insurance and other benefits you would be paying for, business overhead (licensing, business expenses of your own like having your own equipment, office space somewhere to conduct your business activities, phone/internet, general liability insurance, E&O, etc.), and a profit margin. Just the profit margin should make you more expensive because employees don't get profits. They get just their wage/salary & benefits. Employees will always be cheaper per hour if the independent contractor bills like they know what the f--- they are doing.

So, why would they hire you? What do you provide that they can't hire someone for less money per hour as an employee? You basically have to be screwing yourself to cheaper so forget that. Either be an employee or be your own business but don't try to be both.

POINT ULTIMATE: Running a business and doing so competently is at minimum a full time job especially when you have clients and you are working but that alone is going to be consuming at least 30-40 hours a week if you are going to be working on client work and not have employees or business partners doing that work. If it's just you, you are realistically looking at 50-80 hours a week and sometimes longer. You won't really have days off. You will be spending time on weekends and it's probably a 6-1/2 day deal. How can you adequately serve as an employee with that kind of committment already. If you are going to run a business, it's full time and then some. Even if you manage a reasonable 50-60 hours a week work load running the business, are you willing to work another 40+ hours a week as an employee and commit to working the hours your employer is going to expect of you and meet their deadlines they establish which you will have no control over. They are going to expect employees to put overtime from time to time without complaining especially when you are paid more than minimum wage to begin with. Can you put 40-80 hours a week on top of the 50-60 hours a week you are putting in running your own business? Can you really run a daytime business (8A-5P) while working for an employer that is a daytime business (8A-5P)? It's like hoping to work in an architect office while going to architecture school with your classes all being day-time classes because that's the only time the classes are offered? Is an employer going to hire an employee that has hours they can't be available because of classes or an otherwise equally qualified employee who can be available to work but don't have classes.

Most architectural firms are daytime businesses that may have employees working after hours when deadlines are looming but otherwise are just daytime businesses. They aren't 24/7 businesses and most clients aren't going to be meeting clients at 2AM or 3AM at night when they are likely to be asleep. This isn't a factory where manufacturing may go on 24/7. This isn't a 24/7 gas station job either. 

What's your priority? That's going to be on the mind of a prospective employer. It would be on my mind if I was looking for an employee. If you want to get licensed, you will need to get the AXP hours. You then will need to put aside the business. You might just keep the business registration filings active but you will need to put it in a hiatus mode until you complete your AXP hours and any additional experience under an architect that you maybe required to take if you do not have an NAAB accredited degree and are getting licensed under an alternative path to licensure. You will need to put the "business" aside unless you have a partner in your business that can be running the business and you are for the time being a 'silent partner' that is observing the books but the partner works with the client projects. Keep in mind that things can go sideways and keeping the business "active" (aside from merely renewing business licenses) can make employment difficult for you. 

To reiterate: WHAT IS YOUR PRIORITY? 

Don’t you do any steel detailing for architects? That might be an entry into more architecture related stuff, not necessarily immediately a job as an architect or junior architect or however the title is. But as a business owner yourself would you really like some smug architect-know-it-all making half your salary tell you what to do on a day to day basis? I think you’ll be setting yourself up for some frustrating times if you go the traditional internship route...it will take you years to end up somewhere halfway from where you already are. What about starting your own architectural design firm by hiring your own mentor?