As we all know, clients are not architects so they have crazy ideas that will not always get built how they see it in their minds..but as the designer/modeller i have to at least show them their concept with all their requests...I'm sure after a couple rounds it will be much better (windows and roof included)...
Apr 18, 18 3:22 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
Wrong, it is the designer's job to explain what is possible and reasonable within the client's broad scope. Just because the client wants every version of window available at home depot does not mean you have to spend time modeling that option... They will not want to pay your time to show them it's a terrible idea. Also, don't let the software determine things like roof slopes. Work them out before plugging in values in BIM.
Apr 18, 18 3:33 pm ·
·
auninja91
i had shown them a couple better options..but they still wanted to see this and have paid for the time it takes to make the changes, so no complaints there on my part lol...but i understand what you're saying, it would avoid going back and forth to much. I'm not an architect yet so im sure many have way more experience and expertise than i do, that's why i was asking for advice on a solution, doesn't hurt to ask right.
might need to use metal roof on that if the slope is too shallow for asphalt shingles....and if you have snow accumulation add heat tape to the valleys.
Apr 19, 18 12:51 pm ·
·
joseffischer
Move the whole balcony roof to be in line with the crazy window protruded section of the house.
Apr 19, 18 1:48 pm ·
·
JLC-1
I suspect we're not seeing the whole picture for a reason, but you are correct, too many roofs for such a small deck.
Apr 19, 18 1:53 pm ·
·
auninja91
theres a cathedral ceiling in the room where the crazy windows are running all the way to the other side of the house...
Apr 19, 18 3:40 pm ·
·
auninja91
i had one large gable over deck initially, most likely he will go back to this..fingers crossed
Even with the change, it's a bad idea. You should never show a client something that is a problem, because they might decide they want it.
You're dumping a lot of water in one concentrated spot, and that spot isn't even a gutter. It's more shingles. And you're running sideways at the shingles; it's not even going downward towards a gutter. You're putting a lot of trust into the ice and water shield.
if asking a question on a forum meant for open discussion, advice and learning offends ppl to the point where they feel they need to insert their demeaning comments or act like an annoying child, it just refelcts how much of an amazing person they are... if you are to stupid to understand that there will be ppl who are just beginning in this industry, and there were obviously ppl patient enough to teach you at some point, then be quiet... lol not every one can be as "smart" as you are holy... other than that thanks for those whos input is useful and constructive
Apr 19, 18 4:02 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
It's because we're normally paid to offer such information. Count yourself lucky you actually got useful information.
All that time and money spent on an education so utterly worthless that the OP has to come begging on an internet forum for professional help. On a most obvious and mundane matter.
[sigh]
Apr 19, 18 7:22 pm ·
·
auninja91
i do count myself lucky =] (that's y i thanked ppl that answered) asking for help on here is like taking a shot in the dark haha so much for mentorship...some ppl are just nasty or bored so sure, of course its entertaining.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Apr 20, 18 9:35 am ·
·
auninja91
Miles Jaffe-im not sure when asking a question turned into begging tho :/ and if you're sooo smart go ahead and give urself a pat on the back..u took the time to respond to my post and didnt answer the original question with anything useful...so who knows if your education was even worth a dime.
No reason at all to have that many gables on a house. The idea is to shed rain and snow and not let ice build up. The roof needs enough pitch to shed show readily. You should consider redesigning the whole floor plan to at least do away with the two small gables There are enough simple roofs types (gable, hip, gambrel, and others) to allow whatever statement the owners want without causing them massive problems later on.
Apr 19, 18 9:33 pm ·
·
auninja91
okay thanks I'll keep that in mind for future projects!!
i was just building this model for a designer and I was wondering why he drafted the floor plans like that (because it clearly makes a complicated roof), he says the client is a builder...so im sure they have their own solution they've will come up with together.... i was just curious
How much are you getting paid for this job, and is it a one time gig? Why isn't the designer giving you more input? Are you only creating a 3D model for the designer? How much is the designer getting paid by the builder? We've been helpful to you, so maybe you could satisfy my curiosity?
Apr 20, 18 2:34 pm ·
·
auninja91
I get paid by the hour for the model some nice moula $$ (pretty decent for a side job, can't complain). He is just stepping into using BIM software so he's not very fast at making models. The builder is doing this as his "dream home" so he's working with the designer to get the plans done, not sure about their contract setup (i just send the model and plans to them to review and revise). i think that since his client is a builder he's a special case otherwise, with other clients the designers plans and roof match up way better.
do contractors/builders think they know better than architects?
Apr 20, 18 4:20 pm ·
·
JLC-1
how to put together a building? yes, they do know better
Apr 20, 18 4:22 pm ·
·
auninja91
maybe i should post this to a contractors/builders forum then...i guess that's why the designer isn't worried about the drainage then.. idk i was just curious..ship me to mars
Apr 20, 18 4:27 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
Yes, they do think so, and a significant portion of them actually are better. In their minds thou better often equals cheaper/faster which may not be what the architect intended.
The differences include not only the knowledge and experience of actually constructing buildings but also the knowledge and experience of dealing with building failures caused by shitty design and / or bad construction. This is critically important for builders because they have to warranty their work.
Apr 20, 18 4:41 pm ·
·
joseffischer
A good 2 years in the construction industry specifically spent dealing with leaks in buildings, roof/plumbing issues, and framing, really negates any experience or leverage the builders have. There are plenty of other trades you can work in as well and all experience helps, but it seems most of my time on a CD set is haggling/discussing details for the roof system, windows, flashings, etc. For framing, dabbling in wood and CFMF/metal studs is good. Leave the heavier stuff, steel, concrete, etc to your structural engineer. Obviously, all issues with a building ultimately fall on your shoulders as an architect, but structural, mechanical, civil, electrical, low-voltage-data-sound-security, etc issues usually get foisted off on the respective trades. At this point in time, it seems like beyond aesthetics and space planning/program arrangement, which aren't really construction issues, the only time an architect gets blamed directly, as in that detail you drew isn't working and now we have this problem, is when the building leaks/molds/rots/etc because one of the 100 different building envelope details showed flashing in the wrong spot or some such.
Apr 21, 18 10:20 am ·
·
joseffischer
If I were to ever teach studio, I'd somehow fit into the curriculum that the kids had to build out a rough opening in their project and flash it before putting in some sort of window system. Maybe I could get some deals from kawneer or something for free parts for their stick-built stuff, maybe do a skylight or two each year. It'd be fun.
Help with drainage solution
Hey, can anyone point me in the "right" direction to solve this drainage issue?
McMansion Hell is gonna roast the shit out of this when it is built.
lol i agree
THIS
thanks i'll give that a try
Two points to JLC
This simplifies things, and adds more covered balcony
Similar idea, less roof
thank youuu
That's a shit design. You should strongly consider scrapping all those silly valleys and take an intelligent approach to the roofing.
A solid redesign is your fix.
As the design stands... no, it can't be fixed. You can't fix stupid.
And I have to ask...
What the hell is going on with those windows?
As we all know, clients are not architects so they have crazy ideas that will not always get built how they see it in their minds..but as the designer/modeller i have to at least show them their concept with all their requests...I'm sure after a couple rounds it will be much better (windows and roof included)...
Wrong, it is the designer's job to explain what is possible and reasonable within the client's broad scope. Just because the client wants every version of window available at home depot does not mean you have to spend time modeling that option... They will not want to pay your time to show them it's a terrible idea. Also, don't let the software determine things like roof slopes. Work them out before plugging in values in BIM.
i had shown them a couple better options..but they still wanted to see this and have paid for the time it takes to make the changes, so no complaints there on my part lol...but i understand what you're saying, it would avoid going back and forth to much. I'm not an architect yet so im sure many have way more experience and expertise than i do, that's why i was asking for advice on a solution, doesn't hurt to ask right.
Pool
lol i would love that
Pool on the roof and indoor waterfall feature - it's a 2-for-1 value add.
yeah i probably did something to mess it up in the software :(
learning from my mistakes though :)
Put a some big skylights in that valley to complete the design.
If it's their design, why try to fix it? They need to know how shitty of a designer they are.
In the end they will blame everyone except themselves despite all the effort made to protect them from their own stupidity.
Have you tried putting it upside down?
Those clients next week: "Hi Local Architect, we just need some permit drawings for the city. It shouldn't cost too much, we already have the design."
bwahahahaha... yeah, I've been there. Say no quick.
updated with JLC-1 input
might need to use metal roof on that if the slope is too shallow for asphalt shingles....and if you have snow accumulation add heat tape to the valleys.
Move the whole balcony roof to be in line with the crazy window protruded section of the house.
I suspect we're not seeing the whole picture for a reason, but you are correct, too many roofs for such a small deck.
theres a cathedral ceiling in the room where the crazy windows are running all the way to the other side of the house...
i had one large gable over deck initially, most likely he will go back to this..fingers crossed
Even with the change, it's a bad idea. You should never show a client something that is a problem, because they might decide they want it.
You're dumping a lot of water in one concentrated spot, and that spot isn't even a gutter. It's more shingles. And you're running sideways at the shingles; it's not even going downward towards a gutter. You're putting a lot of trust into the ice and water shield.
thats a good point
Hey, can anyone point me in the "right" direction to solve this drainage issue?
Hire someone who knows WTF they are doing?
I was pleasantly surprised by the responses thus far. I really expected your comment to be pervasive.
frame flat between the two sloped faces and cricket
if asking a question on a forum meant for open discussion, advice and learning offends ppl to the point where they feel they need to insert their demeaning comments or act like an annoying child, it just refelcts how much of an amazing person they are... if you are to stupid to understand that there will be ppl who are just beginning in this industry, and there were obviously ppl patient enough to teach you at some point, then be quiet... lol not every one can be as "smart" as you are holy... other than that thanks for those whos input is useful and constructive
It's because we're normally paid to offer such information. Count yourself lucky you actually got useful information.
Nah, the entertainment is enough compensation.
All that time and money spent on an education so utterly worthless that the OP has to come begging on an internet forum for professional help. On a most obvious and mundane matter.
[sigh]
i do count myself lucky =] (that's y i thanked ppl that answered) asking for help on here is like taking a shot in the dark haha so much for mentorship...some ppl are just nasty or bored so sure, of course its entertaining.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Miles Jaffe-im not sure when asking a question turned into begging tho :/ and if you're sooo smart go ahead and give urself a pat on the back..u took the time to respond to my post and didnt answer the original question with anything useful...so who knows if your education was even worth a dime.
No reason at all to have that many gables on a house. The idea is to shed rain and snow and not let ice build up. The roof needs enough pitch to shed show readily. You should consider redesigning the whole floor plan to at least do away with the two small gables There are enough simple roofs types (gable, hip, gambrel, and others) to allow whatever statement the owners want without causing them massive problems later on.
okay thanks I'll keep that in mind for future projects!! i was just building this model for a designer and I was wondering why he drafted the floor plans like that (because it clearly makes a complicated roof), he says the client is a builder...so im sure they have their own solution they've will come up with together.... i was just curious
How much are you getting paid for this job, and is it a one time gig? Why isn't the designer giving you more input? Are you only creating a 3D model for the designer? How much is the designer getting paid by the builder? We've been helpful to you, so maybe you could satisfy my curiosity?
I get paid by the hour for the model some nice moula $$ (pretty decent for a side job, can't complain). He is just stepping into using BIM software so he's not very fast at making models. The builder is doing this as his "dream home" so he's working with the designer to get the plans done, not sure about their contract setup (i just send the model and plans to them to review and revise). i think that since his client is a builder he's a special case otherwise, with other clients the designers plans and roof match up way better.
Thanks, and good luck on your hourly gig!
Builder's dream home = spec house.
do contractors/builders think they know better than architects?
how to put together a building? yes, they do know better
maybe i should post this to a contractors/builders forum then...i guess that's why the designer isn't worried about the drainage then.. idk i was just curious..ship me to mars
Yes, they do think so, and a significant portion of them actually are better. In their minds thou better often equals cheaper/faster which may not be what the architect intended.
The differences include not only the knowledge and experience of actually constructing buildings but also the knowledge and experience of dealing with building failures caused by shitty design and / or bad construction. This is critically important for builders because they have to warranty their work.
A good 2 years in the construction industry specifically spent dealing with leaks in buildings, roof/plumbing issues, and framing, really negates any experience or leverage the builders have. There are plenty of other trades you can work in as well and all experience helps, but it seems most of my time on a CD set is haggling/discussing details for the roof system, windows, flashings, etc. For framing, dabbling in wood and CFMF/metal studs is good. Leave the heavier stuff, steel, concrete, etc to your structural engineer. Obviously, all issues with a building ultimately fall on your shoulders as an architect, but structural, mechanical, civil, electrical, low-voltage-data-sound-security, etc issues usually get foisted off on the respective trades. At this point in time, it seems like beyond aesthetics and space planning/program arrangement, which aren't really construction issues, the only time an architect gets blamed directly, as in that detail you drew isn't working and now we have this problem, is when the building leaks/molds/rots/etc because one of the 100 different building envelope details showed flashing in the wrong spot or some such.
If I were to ever teach studio, I'd somehow fit into the curriculum that the kids had to build out a rough opening in their project and flash it before putting in some sort of window system. Maybe I could get some deals from kawneer or something for free parts for their stick-built stuff, maybe do a skylight or two each year. It'd be fun.
That roof is a mess! It hurts my head just briefly seeing it, pull the plug on it and pass it over! Drain it!
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