I'm about to start Architecture at uni. Seriously, it depresses me how 80% of people in this field complain about it. Can you share a happy story? Such as how you found fulfilment in architecture, succesful self-employment, your love for architecture or not-that-bad pay? Looking forward!
Like every single profession out there, architecture absolutely has its drawbacks, but I personally believe that with each one of those comes something valuable and worthwhile.
-Extremely rigorous college curriculum. You'll have non-arch friends who go out and party on a Thursday night, while you pull an all-nighter building foam models that are gonna get shit on by your professor the next day. BUT through all those late nights comes a sense of camaraderie with your peers unlike any other. You'll bond over the pain and strain and come away with lifelong friendships.
-Unreasonably long hours. You'll work 70 hour weeks while your accountant friends work 40 and get paid 50% more. You'll spend weeks at a time doing the same mundane task like laying out toilet rooms and drawing ceiling details. BUT I can honestly say that in my 6 years of practice, I've learned something new, albeit small, every single day. As an architect, you never stop learning and there's something very fulfilling about that.
-Less than ideal pay. Compared to engineers, doctors, lawyers, and other 'prestigious' professions that require post-grad degrees, a professional license, tons of insurance, and years of interning, our pay is at the bottom of this list. It's unfortunate, but it's our reality. There are certainly opportunities to make great money and have a lucrative career, but the typical career path doesn't always end up there. BUT despite all of this, you can find a sense of fulfillment that you can't with any other work. After the long hours and ridiculous client expectations, you'll have a project that you can reference the rest of your life. A project that will have a lasting impact on thousands of people-- something that you made.
TL;DR the people that come on here to bitch are bitter individuals who are unwilling to change their situation. Being an architect does not mean you're an indentured servant. If you don't like your job, then leave it or put in the work to get where you want to be. Don't let the whiners deter you. Every profession has it's share of complainers, architecture just has a lot of them.
Ignore architechie, to start. Lots of people bitch about our profession but their personalities are such that *whatever* profession they were in, they would bitch about it.
I LOVE being an architect, there is nothing I'd rather do. I've done traditional practice in small boutique firms doing theme restaurants, historic preservation, educational and cultural institutional clients, renovation, master planning. I've been self-employed doing residential remodel and tiny arts projects and exhibit design. I've shifted into the facilities management side of things for the last four years and learned a ton about being on the client side.
Now I'm headed back into traditional practice for a firm doing a variety of project types. I couldn't be happier.
This profession is SO broad-ranging. We are able to interact with people of ALL kinds, with all kinds of goals, but all with the single lack of not being able to bring their functional requirements and cultural goals into three dimensional representation. That's what WE get to do, and it is truly the best job ever.
As in ANY job, there is crap work that has to be done, and some days you don't feel like dragging into the office, and there are shitty clients and co-workers (like architechie LOL).
But being an architect means seeing the world as full of possibility. It's the best.
Look, as much as people complain, they stick with it, so there must be something to stick around for.
As often as not, by the time someone has enough experience doing the job (this applies to ANY occupation) they are in their thirties, maybe with a spouse, mortgage and maybe a kid or two. A career change becomes very difficult, and they end up stuck.
Which is why my recommendation to any high school kid is to do as much research as possible before picking your profession. Jobs that sound "fun" when you're young can turn into drudgery by middle age.
If you love being an architect, Great!! More power to you. You are one of the lucky few who love their work. But, the things you cite in your second paragraph (significant other, travel, entertainment) can be had without being in the profession.
Which is why my recommendation to any high school kid is to do as much research as possible before picking your profession.
geezer this is *truly* spoken like an old man, true to your name!
A high school kid today is facing more rapid and radical technological and societal change in the next five years than we have faced in the entirety of our careers (I'm 50, I started doing drafting classes aiming towards architecture when I was 15.)
I'm not saying HS kids shouldn't do some research, but you can't research "a profession" choice when the profession might not exist by the time you're done with college. The person who graduates with a degree this May, in any discipline, and ends up doing only that narrowly-defined practice for a 50-year career span is not the majority, these days.
So you look for the things that interest you then figure out how to play around within them. I know many under-30 architecture graduates who are sing their degree to do filmmaking, web design, non-profit work, running restaurants, RE development...
I'm inclined to support what geezertect writes above.
In my experience, it takes most people some time to actually gain meaningful personal experience with this profession. All too often by the time one actually understands what the profession is all about it has become almost impossible (and tremendously expensive) to return to school for another degree. And, contrary to what many here like to believe, an architecture degree (by itself) isn't exactly a door-opener to other careers.
I know too many graduate architects who possessed substantial starry-eyed misconceptions about the profession when they entered college -- and those misconceptions rarely, if ever, were disabused by their professors.
We definitely are a "look before you leap" profession. Were the realities of our profession more self-evident to outsiders I don't think we would have nearly as many disillusioned people knocking around in our firms.
you can't research "a profession" choice when the profession might not exist by the time you're done with college
If the hypothetical profession will be extinct by the time of graduation, that must mean it does exist during college, so why can't it be researched? Maybe I don't understand your statement.
I agree that you can't know everything when you embark on a career choice, but you certainly can know a few things. Low pay, long hours, and a general lack of respect have characterized this profession for generations. There really isn't much excuse, particularly now in the age of the internet, for a newly minted architecture graduate to be shocked at what they find. A little,yes, research would have forewarned them. BTW, my definition of research would also include simple introspection as to your true goals, values, etc.
Mike Rowe, host of "Dirty Jobs", said in an interview that he thought it was a mistake for young people to be told to find something fun. He said that they should instead look for satisfaction, which is different. Most of the people he features do jobs that no sane person would consider "fun", but that many of them nevertheless found satisfaction in them, because they had mastered difficult tasks that needed doing and provided a living. I thought he made a very profound point.
Do I complain about the hours, pay and work, sure. Is it terrible? no. most of the time it's self-imposed now, and come to think of it, was mostly the case in the past.
Best moments: seeing clients excited to see their projects occupied, seeing people take engagement photos in front of your work, the tangible results are quite satisfying - it's hard to remember that every day, but if you can find your niche (talent fitting into right type of office culture), it's not bad.
Architecture (as a profession) is not unique. There are nightmare stories, bosses, work environments in every profession. There are people that will complain about these things everywhere you look. Take them with a grain of salt.
Happy (Personal) Story: I started a side practice and saved up enough to buy a fixer-upper in an amazing neighborhood in Boston. The house has appreciated in value a ton in the past two years. It's been a dream scenario. The profession is as good or as bad as you make it. For me, it's a great fit.
I think someone said it earlier, don't judge the profession on just this forum. People here tend to be very pessimistic. It's not representative of the entire profession.
I'm happy at a small firm! I left a big soul sucking corporate hell-hole for a small firm with a great portfolio and reputation. The pay is similar, but the environment is much better.
IF you find out in school that you love architecture, you may have to try a few different firms before you get a good fit for you. Also, tackle that IDP or AXP and ARE's as soon as possible! They take up a lot of time and if you wait a few years after you start working you will have lots of responsibilities to worry about and it is easy to put licensure off.
IF you are a minority, brace yourself. This is a white-male dominated profession, and they like to keep it that way. It's not impossible to deal with, but it can be frustrating and demoralizing - but there are plenty of firms out there that positive about diversity. It is all about a good fit.
Architecture, like many other professions, is an over saturated field. There are positions available. All one can do is apply and take measures to be more attractive as a designer. It's very easy to be bitter but my message to unemployed designers is to continually try to make yourself more attractive by improving work and/or software development. And if you can't attract a company, seek ANY design related work elsewhere or maybe consider another route for making a decent dollar. This is the struggle but there is no use in complaining. I know from experience. I'm finding out that it's better to miss an opportunity than to whine about not finding work. That mentality kills. I actually have been able to find more success as a graphic designer than architectural designer. Just enjoy the day and whatever is in front of you. That's all one can do.
Its best to see Architecture as something philosophical.. a way of life. You eat, sleep, grow and live with it. Everything else should be easier after that.
In short, your values should suit the profession, not the other way around. What Some fail to realize is that, they align fulfillment with $$$. The best stuff are the intangibles that goes with being one.
But having said these things, I still struggle to come into terms everyday on how the hell our consultants drives better cars on meetings :D
Am sure there are tonnes out there but the main takeaway from your post should be this: If you're deterred by these stories, you're not passionate enough and shouldn't pursue the discipline.
Like every single profession out there, architecture absolutely has its drawbacks, but I personally believe that with each one of those comes something valuable and worthwhile.
-Extremely rigorous college curriculum. You'll have non-arch friends who go out and party on a Thursday night, while you pull an all-nighter building foam models that are gonna get shit on by your professor the next day. BUT through all those late nights comes a sense of camaraderie with your peers unlike any other. You'll bond over the pain and strain and come away with lifelong friendships.
-Unreasonably long hours. You'll work 70 hour weeks while your accountant friends work 40 and get paid 50% more. You'll spend weeks at a time doing the same mundane task like laying out toilet rooms and drawing ceiling details. BUT I can honestly say that in my 6 years of practice, I've learned something new, albeit small, every single day. As an architect, you never stop learning and there's something very fulfilling about that.
-Less than ideal pay. Compared to engineers, doctors, lawyers, and other 'prestigious' professions that require post-grad degrees, a professional license, tons of insurance, and years of interning, our pay is at the bottom of this list. It's unfortunate, but it's our reality. There are certainly opportunities to make great money and have a lucrative career, but the typical career path doesn't always end up there. BUT despite all of this, you can find a sense of fulfillment that you can't with any other work. After the long hours and ridiculous client expectations, you'll have a project that you can reference the rest of your life. A project that will have a lasting impact on thousands of people-- something that you made.
TL;DR the people that come on here to bitch are bitter individuals who are unwilling to change their situation. Being an architect does not mean you're an indentured servant. If you don't like your job, then leave it or put in the work to get where you want to be. Don't let the whiners deter you. Every profession has it's share of complainers, architecture just has a lot of them.
Ignore architechie, to start. Lots of people bitch about our profession but their personalities are such that *whatever* profession they were in, they would bitch about it.
I LOVE being an architect, there is nothing I'd rather do. I've done traditional practice in small boutique firms doing theme restaurants, historic preservation, educational and cultural institutional clients, renovation, master planning. I've been self-employed doing residential remodel and tiny arts projects and exhibit design. I've shifted into the facilities management side of things for the last four years and learned a ton about being on the client side.
Now I'm headed back into traditional practice for a firm doing a variety of project types. I couldn't be happier.
This profession is SO broad-ranging. We are able to interact with people of ALL kinds, with all kinds of goals, but all with the single lack of not being able to bring their functional requirements and cultural goals into three dimensional representation. That's what WE get to do, and it is truly the best job ever.
As in ANY job, there is crap work that has to be done, and some days you don't feel like dragging into the office, and there are shitty clients and co-workers (like architechie LOL).
But being an architect means seeing the world as full of possibility. It's the best.
Donna: I seem to remember a couple of years ago that you said you could not longer recommend architecture as a profession. Sounds like you've changed your mind. What caused the change?
do you want to struggle all the time, just to get rid of a joint in a ceiling panel or make an exit sign look prettier? sit in a chair for 15 hours a day? if so step right up
Look, as much as people complain, they stick with it, so there must be something to stick around for.
I met my significant other through architecture, a friend of a classmate. I'm happy about that. I travel and get exposed to more places and ideas than most people I know, that's a perk. In a world where most people seem to be on anti-depressants, I am not in part because I can entertain myself just by walking down the street and looking at buildings and watching people. Many of my best friends are architects and I think we bond like no other group can.
Look, as much as people complain, they stick with it, so there must be something to stick around for.
As often as not, by the time someone has enough experience doing the job (this applies to ANY occupation) they are in their thirties, maybe with a spouse, mortgage and maybe a kid or two. A career change becomes very difficult, and they end up stuck.
Which is why my recommendation to any high school kid is to do as much research as possible before picking your profession. Jobs that sound "fun" when you're young can turn into drudgery by middle age.
If you love being an architect, Great!! More power to you. You are one of the lucky few who love their work. But, the things you cite in your second paragraph (significant other, travel, entertainment) can be had without being in the profession.
geezertect - at least you aren't swinging a hammer in 5 degree weather...everything you mention are first world white people problems. If you hate it so much, you can always figure out a way to get out, being stuck is a choice.
Cheer up, geezer. I failed to mention that I attribute my good times to my ability to see things and use my imagination, which is a muscle I excercise at least in part because of architecture. Note that I only participate as a part-timer, but that's also what makes me happy.
Which is why my recommendation to any high school kid is to do as much research as possible before picking your profession.
geezer this is *truly* spoken like an old man, true to your name!
A high school kid today is facing more rapid and radical technological and societal change in the next five years than we have faced in the entirety of our careers (I'm 50, I started doing drafting classes aiming towards architecture when I was 15.)
I'm not saying HS kids shouldn't do some research, but you can't research "a profession" choice when the profession might not exist by the time you're done with college. The person who graduates with a degree this May, in any discipline, and ends up doing only that narrowly-defined practice for a 50-year career span is not the majority, these days.
So you look for the things that interest you then figure out how to play around within them. I know many under-30 architecture graduates who are sing their degree to do filmmaking, web design, non-profit work, running restaurants, RE development...
I'm inclined to support what geezertect writes above.
In my experience, it takes most people some time to actually gain meaningful personal experience with this profession. All too often by the time one actually understands what the profession is all about it has become almost impossible (and tremendously expensive) to return to school for another degree. And, contrary to what many here like to believe, an architecture degree (by itself) isn't exactly a door-opener to other careers.
I know too many graduate architects who possessed substantial starry-eyed misconceptions about the profession when they entered college -- and those misconceptions rarely, if ever, were disabused by their professors.
We definitely are a "look before you leap" profession. Were the realities of our profession more self-evident to outsiders I don't think we would have nearly as many disillusioned people knocking around in our firms.
you can't research "a profession" choice when the profession might not exist by the time you're done with college
If the hypothetical profession will be extinct by the time of graduation, that must mean it does exist during college, so why can't it be researched? Maybe I don't understand your statement.
I agree that you can't know everything when you embark on a career choice, but you certainly can know a few things. Low pay, long hours, and a general lack of respect have characterized this profession for generations. There really isn't much excuse, particularly now in the age of the internet, for a newly minted architecture graduate to be shocked at what they find. A little,yes, research would have forewarned them. BTW, my definition of research would also include simple introspection as to your true goals, values, etc.
Mike Rowe, host of "Dirty Jobs", said in an interview that he thought it was a mistake for young people to be told to find something fun. He said that they should instead look for satisfaction, which is different. Most of the people he features do jobs that no sane person would consider "fun", but that many of them nevertheless found satisfaction in them, because they had mastered difficult tasks that needed doing and provided a living. I thought he made a very profound point.
Some days at work suck, some days are fantastic. Having an architecture degree and way of thinking is, I find, invaluable. Your life is what you make of it.
geezer makes a very good point. Satisfaction is different for everyone, as do the tasks that lead to satisfaction (or not). Some are happy doing the same thing every day, and others need constant stimulation. Some like paperwork while others don't. Etc etc etc. And you may not find out what that is until you've been working professionally for several years - and then it may change!
Unfortunately people choose a career path when they are 18 and don't know shit about professional work or themselves. There a happy and unhappy people in all professions. if architecture isn't for you do something else, geezer especially - dude is toxic.
chigurh: I am doing something else. I'm joyfully retired, so I don't have a dog in this fight any more. If encouraging people to look before they leap is your definition of "toxic", then so be it.
You'll see mostly complainers on this forum, happy ones are busy working. The forum is a great place to vent their frustration, it could be a good career or bad career for you. It all just depends on you.
Any profession where you have to log out to go to the bathroom or allow yourself to be browbeat into not going off premises for lunch is not a profession in any sense of the word.
It's called modern slave labor. How do you think the pyramids where constructed( Aliens, buh). You give your laborers the bare necessities, and exclaim them as the next best thing to sliced bread. Everyone's looking to be part of something. It's a trait of a super organisms.
Do I complain about the hours, pay and work, sure. Is it terrible? no. most of the time it's self-imposed now, and come to think of it, was mostly the case in the past.
Best moments: seeing clients excited to see their projects occupied, seeing people take engagement photos in front of your work, the tangible results are quite satisfying - it's hard to remember that every day, but if you can find your niche (talent fitting into right type of office culture), it's not bad.
Architecture (as a profession) is not unique. There are nightmare stories, bosses, work environments in every profession. There are people that will complain about these things everywhere you look. Take them with a grain of salt.
Happy (Personal) Story: I started a side practice and saved up enough to buy a fixer-upper in an amazing neighborhood in Boston. The house has appreciated in value a ton in the past two years. It's been a dream scenario. The profession is as good or as bad as you make it. For me, it's a great fit.
I think someone said it earlier, don't judge the profession on just this forum. People here tend to be very pessimistic. It's not representative of the entire profession.
I'm happy at a small firm! I left a big soul sucking corporate hell-hole for a small firm with a great portfolio and reputation. The pay is similar, but the environment is much better.
IF you find out in school that you love architecture, you may have to try a few different firms before you get a good fit for you. Also, tackle that IDP or AXP and ARE's as soon as possible! They take up a lot of time and if you wait a few years after you start working you will have lots of responsibilities to worry about and it is easy to put licensure off.
IF you are a minority, brace yourself. This is a white-male dominated profession, and they like to keep it that way. It's not impossible to deal with, but it can be frustrating and demoralizing - but there are plenty of firms out there that positive about diversity. It is all about a good fit.
"IF you are a minority, brace yourself. This is a white-male dominated profession, and they like to keep it that way. It's not impossible to deal with, but it can be frustrating and demoralizing - but there are plenty of firms out there that positive about diversity. It is all about a good fit."
Agreed, but i guess we should have figured this out in school
Since other professions were mentioned... I worked for a few years in special ed. I had kids with severe emotional, intellectual, and behavioral problems...I've been attacked with pencils, been punched in the gut while pregnant, witnessed masterbation (it's a medical issue, nothing you can do but ask them to wash up before continuing with the lesson), dealt with piss poop and vomit, listened to kids tell me about their awful home life, watched kids roll around on the floor in a fit... yet it was pretty good... only 1 bad day out about 10. In full time architecture, it was the good days that were similarly numbered at 1 out iof 10. What makes it worse is that in architecture, the crap could be avoided but it is actually part of your compensation.
I am working on getting a temp position with an architect who is going thru the same as the ^ comment, I mean to a "T", with the only exemption, to add me to the mix (independent draftsman). I am to complete a set of drawings for a complex design, but I have no worries I will detail the hell out of the thing , but she is having problems getting the client to answer the phone more or less pay the bill. I get fake emails from clients that seem real....lol my life sucks. Three opportunities, great pay, all seem to be falling thru the roof luckily these are all projects that fell on my lap and I am not working to find them. When I actually start marketing I know I will find a real client.
MyDream real clients come from word of mouth, not marketing. there is a great deal of trust involved in letting you advise clients on how to spend money. work begets work. good work begets better work. first jobs are usually tests.....the Dilbert strip applies because many people in the AEC industry know they can ask an architect to work for free or very hard at getting the opportunity. sometimes its worth it, sometimes there is known risk of wasting your time, and sometimes you realize often too late - you were duped.
^ It all gets back to supply and demand. There are too many architects for the amount of architectural work. And, when the next recession comes along, it will be just that much worse.
I am not going to say what I want to say because I don't want a bunch of people throwing round their negative opinions, I am going to try to avoid that, they feel that they know everything because they work in the field. If they knew how I learned what I know and what I am capable of with this information and how I have planned everything together they would not believe it, you probably wouldn't believe it, but say it is impossible and probably call me a liar and not to mention all of my plans to become a very wealthy architect developer I'll save most of it. I know that my marketing techniques will produce clients, real clients that are going to not only be willing to work with me, but need my services on a daily bases. The architect who I am working on this job with not only was impressed with my portfolio, but said that I am better at Revit than she is, hired me immediately and I expect when I start marketing to have clients acting the same just in a different context. Lastly, I haven't been duped it is going to take a long time to accomplish what I am trying to do but when I get going I know I am going to be very successful these are just bumps in the road.
One more thing if you don't believe that I am going to be a very wealthy architect developer one day, stay on the forum and give me a chance to prove it. Another thing my high horse is knocked down a bit because of another person who figured out how to beat the odds.....Tadao Ando.
^Exceptions don't make the rules. Just because Mr. Ando is successful does not mean any other chump with a dream will be able to replicate such success. It's far more complicated than that. Max's points are not made to belittle. They are very-much a true representation of how work is acquired.
How's professional liability insurance in florida these days?
I don't want to emulate Tadao I have my own plans on how to succeed and I seriously do not like you one bit at all. It did not take long for one of those negative opinions to come strolling along huh? I am sure your Calvary is not far behind so I am going to go back to ignoring you now.
Architecture, like many other professions, is an over saturated field. There are positions available. All one can do is apply and take measures to be more attractive as a designer. It's very easy to be bitter but my message to unemployed designers is to continually try to make yourself more attractive by improving work and/or software development. And if you can't attract a company, seek ANY design related work elsewhere or maybe consider another route for making a decent dollar. This is the struggle but there is no use in complaining. I know from experience. I'm finding out that it's better to miss an opportunity than to whine about not finding work. That mentality kills. I actually have been able to find more success as a graphic designer than architectural designer. Just enjoy the day and whatever is in front of you. That's all one can do.
But at least I am an architect... with clients, and real buildings in my portfolio. Don't messily discount constructive criticism when it comes form experience.
So what, I have real buildings in my portfolio working with firms, I have had real clients and I am going to see if one is going to fall though tomorrow, and saying " any other chump with a dream" is not good constructive criticism.
Any happy stories?
I'm about to start Architecture at uni. Seriously, it depresses me how 80% of people in this field complain about it. Can you share a happy story? Such as how you found fulfilment in architecture, succesful self-employment, your love for architecture or not-that-bad pay? Looking forward!
11 Featured Comments
Like every single profession out there, architecture absolutely has its drawbacks, but I personally believe that with each one of those comes something valuable and worthwhile.
-Extremely rigorous college curriculum. You'll have non-arch friends who go out and party on a Thursday night, while you pull an all-nighter building foam models that are gonna get shit on by your professor the next day. BUT through all those late nights comes a sense of camaraderie with your peers unlike any other. You'll bond over the pain and strain and come away with lifelong friendships.
-Unreasonably long hours. You'll work 70 hour weeks while your accountant friends work 40 and get paid 50% more. You'll spend weeks at a time doing the same mundane task like laying out toilet rooms and drawing ceiling details. BUT I can honestly say that in my 6 years of practice, I've learned something new, albeit small, every single day. As an architect, you never stop learning and there's something very fulfilling about that.
-Less than ideal pay. Compared to engineers, doctors, lawyers, and other 'prestigious' professions that require post-grad degrees, a professional license, tons of insurance, and years of interning, our pay is at the bottom of this list. It's unfortunate, but it's our reality. There are certainly opportunities to make great money and have a lucrative career, but the typical career path doesn't always end up there. BUT despite all of this, you can find a sense of fulfillment that you can't with any other work. After the long hours and ridiculous client expectations, you'll have a project that you can reference the rest of your life. A project that will have a lasting impact on thousands of people-- something that you made.
TL;DR the people that come on here to bitch are bitter individuals who are unwilling to change their situation. Being an architect does not mean you're an indentured servant. If you don't like your job, then leave it or put in the work to get where you want to be. Don't let the whiners deter you. Every profession has it's share of complainers, architecture just has a lot of them.
Ignore architechie, to start. Lots of people bitch about our profession but their personalities are such that *whatever* profession they were in, they would bitch about it.
I LOVE being an architect, there is nothing I'd rather do. I've done traditional practice in small boutique firms doing theme restaurants, historic preservation, educational and cultural institutional clients, renovation, master planning. I've been self-employed doing residential remodel and tiny arts projects and exhibit design. I've shifted into the facilities management side of things for the last four years and learned a ton about being on the client side.
Now I'm headed back into traditional practice for a firm doing a variety of project types. I couldn't be happier.
This profession is SO broad-ranging. We are able to interact with people of ALL kinds, with all kinds of goals, but all with the single lack of not being able to bring their functional requirements and cultural goals into three dimensional representation. That's what WE get to do, and it is truly the best job ever.
As in ANY job, there is crap work that has to be done, and some days you don't feel like dragging into the office, and there are shitty clients and co-workers (like architechie LOL).
But being an architect means seeing the world as full of possibility. It's the best.
Look, as much as people complain, they stick with it, so there must be something to stick around for.
As often as not, by the time someone has enough experience doing the job (this applies to ANY occupation) they are in their thirties, maybe with a spouse, mortgage and maybe a kid or two. A career change becomes very difficult, and they end up stuck.
Which is why my recommendation to any high school kid is to do as much research as possible before picking your profession. Jobs that sound "fun" when you're young can turn into drudgery by middle age.
If you love being an architect, Great!! More power to you. You are one of the lucky few who love their work. But, the things you cite in your second paragraph (significant other, travel, entertainment) can be had without being in the profession.
Which is why my recommendation to any high school kid is to do as much research as possible before picking your profession.
geezer this is *truly* spoken like an old man, true to your name!
A high school kid today is facing more rapid and radical technological and societal change in the next five years than we have faced in the entirety of our careers (I'm 50, I started doing drafting classes aiming towards architecture when I was 15.)
I'm not saying HS kids shouldn't do some research, but you can't research "a profession" choice when the profession might not exist by the time you're done with college. The person who graduates with a degree this May, in any discipline, and ends up doing only that narrowly-defined practice for a 50-year career span is not the majority, these days.
So you look for the things that interest you then figure out how to play around within them. I know many under-30 architecture graduates who are sing their degree to do filmmaking, web design, non-profit work, running restaurants, RE development...
I'm inclined to support what geezertect writes above.
In my experience, it takes most people some time to actually gain meaningful personal experience with this profession. All too often by the time one actually understands what the profession is all about it has become almost impossible (and tremendously expensive) to return to school for another degree. And, contrary to what many here like to believe, an architecture degree (by itself) isn't exactly a door-opener to other careers.
I know too many graduate architects who possessed substantial starry-eyed misconceptions about the profession when they entered college -- and those misconceptions rarely, if ever, were disabused by their professors.
We definitely are a "look before you leap" profession. Were the realities of our profession more self-evident to outsiders I don't think we would have nearly as many disillusioned people knocking around in our firms.
you can't research "a profession" choice when the profession might not exist by the time you're done with college
If the hypothetical profession will be extinct by the time of graduation, that must mean it does exist during college, so why can't it be researched? Maybe I don't understand your statement.
I agree that you can't know everything when you embark on a career choice, but you certainly can know a few things. Low pay, long hours, and a general lack of respect have characterized this profession for generations. There really isn't much excuse, particularly now in the age of the internet, for a newly minted architecture graduate to be shocked at what they find. A little,yes, research would have forewarned them. BTW, my definition of research would also include simple introspection as to your true goals, values, etc.
Mike Rowe, host of "Dirty Jobs", said in an interview that he thought it was a mistake for young people to be told to find something fun. He said that they should instead look for satisfaction, which is different. Most of the people he features do jobs that no sane person would consider "fun", but that many of them nevertheless found satisfaction in them, because they had mastered difficult tasks that needed doing and provided a living. I thought he made a very profound point.
Do I complain about the hours, pay and work, sure. Is it terrible? no. most of the time it's self-imposed now, and come to think of it, was mostly the case in the past.
Best moments: seeing clients excited to see their projects occupied, seeing people take engagement photos in front of your work, the tangible results are quite satisfying - it's hard to remember that every day, but if you can find your niche (talent fitting into right type of office culture), it's not bad.
Architecture (as a profession) is not unique. There are nightmare stories, bosses, work environments in every profession. There are people that will complain about these things everywhere you look. Take them with a grain of salt.
Happy (Personal) Story: I started a side practice and saved up enough to buy a fixer-upper in an amazing neighborhood in Boston. The house has appreciated in value a ton in the past two years. It's been a dream scenario. The profession is as good or as bad as you make it. For me, it's a great fit.
I think someone said it earlier, don't judge the profession on just this forum. People here tend to be very pessimistic. It's not representative of the entire profession.
I'm happy at a small firm! I left a big soul sucking corporate hell-hole for a small firm with a great portfolio and reputation. The pay is similar, but the environment is much better.
IF you find out in school that you love architecture, you may have to try a few different firms before you get a good fit for you. Also, tackle that IDP or AXP and ARE's as soon as possible! They take up a lot of time and if you wait a few years after you start working you will have lots of responsibilities to worry about and it is easy to put licensure off.
IF you are a minority, brace yourself. This is a white-male dominated profession, and they like to keep it that way. It's not impossible to deal with, but it can be frustrating and demoralizing - but there are plenty of firms out there that positive about diversity. It is all about a good fit.
Architecture, like many other professions, is an over saturated field. There are positions available. All one can do is apply and take measures to be more attractive as a designer. It's very easy to be bitter but my message to unemployed designers is to continually try to make yourself more attractive by improving work and/or software development. And if you can't attract a company, seek ANY design related work elsewhere or maybe consider another route for making a decent dollar. This is the struggle but there is no use in complaining. I know from experience. I'm finding out that it's better to miss an opportunity than to whine about not finding work. That mentality kills. I actually have been able to find more success as a graphic designer than architectural designer. Just enjoy the day and whatever is in front of you. That's all one can do.
Its best to see Architecture as something philosophical.. a way of life. You eat, sleep, grow and live with it. Everything else should be easier after that.
In short, your values should suit the profession, not the other way around. What Some fail to realize is that, they align fulfillment with $$$. The best stuff are the intangibles that goes with being one.
But having said these things, I still struggle to come into terms everyday on how the hell our consultants drives better cars on meetings :D
All 58 Comments
Am sure there are tonnes out there but the main takeaway from your post should be this: If you're deterred by these stories, you're not passionate enough and shouldn't pursue the discipline.
Like every single profession out there, architecture absolutely has its drawbacks, but I personally believe that with each one of those comes something valuable and worthwhile.
-Extremely rigorous college curriculum. You'll have non-arch friends who go out and party on a Thursday night, while you pull an all-nighter building foam models that are gonna get shit on by your professor the next day. BUT through all those late nights comes a sense of camaraderie with your peers unlike any other. You'll bond over the pain and strain and come away with lifelong friendships.
-Unreasonably long hours. You'll work 70 hour weeks while your accountant friends work 40 and get paid 50% more. You'll spend weeks at a time doing the same mundane task like laying out toilet rooms and drawing ceiling details. BUT I can honestly say that in my 6 years of practice, I've learned something new, albeit small, every single day. As an architect, you never stop learning and there's something very fulfilling about that.
-Less than ideal pay. Compared to engineers, doctors, lawyers, and other 'prestigious' professions that require post-grad degrees, a professional license, tons of insurance, and years of interning, our pay is at the bottom of this list. It's unfortunate, but it's our reality. There are certainly opportunities to make great money and have a lucrative career, but the typical career path doesn't always end up there. BUT despite all of this, you can find a sense of fulfillment that you can't with any other work. After the long hours and ridiculous client expectations, you'll have a project that you can reference the rest of your life. A project that will have a lasting impact on thousands of people-- something that you made.
TL;DR the people that come on here to bitch are bitter individuals who are unwilling to change their situation. Being an architect does not mean you're an indentured servant. If you don't like your job, then leave it or put in the work to get where you want to be. Don't let the whiners deter you. Every profession has it's share of complainers, architecture just has a lot of them.
Ignore architechie, to start. Lots of people bitch about our profession but their personalities are such that *whatever* profession they were in, they would bitch about it.
I LOVE being an architect, there is nothing I'd rather do. I've done traditional practice in small boutique firms doing theme restaurants, historic preservation, educational and cultural institutional clients, renovation, master planning. I've been self-employed doing residential remodel and tiny arts projects and exhibit design. I've shifted into the facilities management side of things for the last four years and learned a ton about being on the client side.
Now I'm headed back into traditional practice for a firm doing a variety of project types. I couldn't be happier.
This profession is SO broad-ranging. We are able to interact with people of ALL kinds, with all kinds of goals, but all with the single lack of not being able to bring their functional requirements and cultural goals into three dimensional representation. That's what WE get to do, and it is truly the best job ever.
As in ANY job, there is crap work that has to be done, and some days you don't feel like dragging into the office, and there are shitty clients and co-workers (like architechie LOL).
But being an architect means seeing the world as full of possibility. It's the best.
Donna: I seem to remember a couple of years ago that you said you could not longer recommend architecture as a profession. Sounds like you've changed your mind. What caused the change?
^ Hypocrisy at it's finest
do you want to struggle all the time, just to get rid of a joint in a ceiling panel or make an exit sign look prettier? sit in a chair for 15 hours a day? if so step right up
This site is entertaining...hehehe
Look, as much as people complain, they stick with it, so there must be something to stick around for.
I met my significant other through architecture, a friend of a classmate. I'm happy about that. I travel and get exposed to more places and ideas than most people I know, that's a perk. In a world where most people seem to be on anti-depressants, I am not in part because I can entertain myself just by walking down the street and looking at buildings and watching people. Many of my best friends are architects and I think we bond like no other group can.
357951 +1
Look, as much as people complain, they stick with it, so there must be something to stick around for.
As often as not, by the time someone has enough experience doing the job (this applies to ANY occupation) they are in their thirties, maybe with a spouse, mortgage and maybe a kid or two. A career change becomes very difficult, and they end up stuck.
Which is why my recommendation to any high school kid is to do as much research as possible before picking your profession. Jobs that sound "fun" when you're young can turn into drudgery by middle age.
If you love being an architect, Great!! More power to you. You are one of the lucky few who love their work. But, the things you cite in your second paragraph (significant other, travel, entertainment) can be had without being in the profession.
geezertect - at least you aren't swinging a hammer in 5 degree weather...everything you mention are first world white people problems. If you hate it so much, you can always figure out a way to get out, being stuck is a choice.
Cheer up, geezer. I failed to mention that I attribute my good times to my ability to see things and use my imagination, which is a muscle I excercise at least in part because of architecture. Note that I only participate as a part-timer, but that's also what makes me happy.
Which is why my recommendation to any high school kid is to do as much research as possible before picking your profession.
geezer this is *truly* spoken like an old man, true to your name!
A high school kid today is facing more rapid and radical technological and societal change in the next five years than we have faced in the entirety of our careers (I'm 50, I started doing drafting classes aiming towards architecture when I was 15.)
I'm not saying HS kids shouldn't do some research, but you can't research "a profession" choice when the profession might not exist by the time you're done with college. The person who graduates with a degree this May, in any discipline, and ends up doing only that narrowly-defined practice for a 50-year career span is not the majority, these days.
So you look for the things that interest you then figure out how to play around within them. I know many under-30 architecture graduates who are sing their degree to do filmmaking, web design, non-profit work, running restaurants, RE development...
I'm inclined to support what geezertect writes above.
In my experience, it takes most people some time to actually gain meaningful personal experience with this profession. All too often by the time one actually understands what the profession is all about it has become almost impossible (and tremendously expensive) to return to school for another degree. And, contrary to what many here like to believe, an architecture degree (by itself) isn't exactly a door-opener to other careers.
I know too many graduate architects who possessed substantial starry-eyed misconceptions about the profession when they entered college -- and those misconceptions rarely, if ever, were disabused by their professors.
We definitely are a "look before you leap" profession. Were the realities of our profession more self-evident to outsiders I don't think we would have nearly as many disillusioned people knocking around in our firms.
you can't research "a profession" choice when the profession might not exist by the time you're done with college
If the hypothetical profession will be extinct by the time of graduation, that must mean it does exist during college, so why can't it be researched? Maybe I don't understand your statement.
I agree that you can't know everything when you embark on a career choice, but you certainly can know a few things. Low pay, long hours, and a general lack of respect have characterized this profession for generations. There really isn't much excuse, particularly now in the age of the internet, for a newly minted architecture graduate to be shocked at what they find. A little,yes, research would have forewarned them. BTW, my definition of research would also include simple introspection as to your true goals, values, etc.
Mike Rowe, host of "Dirty Jobs", said in an interview that he thought it was a mistake for young people to be told to find something fun. He said that they should instead look for satisfaction, which is different. Most of the people he features do jobs that no sane person would consider "fun", but that many of them nevertheless found satisfaction in them, because they had mastered difficult tasks that needed doing and provided a living. I thought he made a very profound point.
Some days at work suck, some days are fantastic. Having an architecture degree and way of thinking is, I find, invaluable. Your life is what you make of it.
Be an insurance agent, they all seem super happy.
I'm Happy!
geezer makes a very good point. Satisfaction is different for everyone, as do the tasks that lead to satisfaction (or not). Some are happy doing the same thing every day, and others need constant stimulation. Some like paperwork while others don't. Etc etc etc. And you may not find out what that is until you've been working professionally for several years - and then it may change!
Unfortunately people choose a career path when they are 18 and don't know shit about professional work or themselves. There a happy and unhappy people in all professions. if architecture isn't for you do something else, geezer especially - dude is toxic.
Everyone has their opinion, and each one is smelly. Including yours chigurh....u mad?
chigurh: I am doing something else. I'm joyfully retired, so I don't have a dog in this fight any more. If encouraging people to look before they leap is your definition of "toxic", then so be it.
You'll see mostly complainers on this forum, happy ones are busy working. The forum is a great place to vent their frustration, it could be a good career or bad career for you. It all just depends on you.
Fuck everyone here though.
As I have come to learn, its a position were are architects are basically a merge between factory laborer and desk clerk thats glorified
archiwutm8
LMAO....... :D
Any profession where you have to log out to go to the bathroom or allow yourself to be browbeat into not going off premises for lunch is not a profession in any sense of the word.
^ profession is relative.
It's called modern slave labor. How do you think the pyramids where constructed( Aliens, buh). You give your laborers the bare necessities, and exclaim them as the next best thing to sliced bread. Everyone's looking to be part of something. It's a trait of a super organisms.
Do I complain about the hours, pay and work, sure. Is it terrible? no. most of the time it's self-imposed now, and come to think of it, was mostly the case in the past.
Best moments: seeing clients excited to see their projects occupied, seeing people take engagement photos in front of your work, the tangible results are quite satisfying - it's hard to remember that every day, but if you can find your niche (talent fitting into right type of office culture), it's not bad.
Architecture (as a profession) is not unique. There are nightmare stories, bosses, work environments in every profession. There are people that will complain about these things everywhere you look. Take them with a grain of salt.
Happy (Personal) Story: I started a side practice and saved up enough to buy a fixer-upper in an amazing neighborhood in Boston. The house has appreciated in value a ton in the past two years. It's been a dream scenario. The profession is as good or as bad as you make it. For me, it's a great fit.
I think someone said it earlier, don't judge the profession on just this forum. People here tend to be very pessimistic. It's not representative of the entire profession.
I'm happy at a small firm! I left a big soul sucking corporate hell-hole for a small firm with a great portfolio and reputation. The pay is similar, but the environment is much better.
IF you find out in school that you love architecture, you may have to try a few different firms before you get a good fit for you. Also, tackle that IDP or AXP and ARE's as soon as possible! They take up a lot of time and if you wait a few years after you start working you will have lots of responsibilities to worry about and it is easy to put licensure off.
IF you are a minority, brace yourself. This is a white-male dominated profession, and they like to keep it that way. It's not impossible to deal with, but it can be frustrating and demoralizing - but there are plenty of firms out there that positive about diversity. It is all about a good fit.
^
"IF you are a minority, brace yourself. This is a white-male dominated profession, and they like to keep it that way. It's not impossible to deal with, but it can be frustrating and demoralizing - but there are plenty of firms out there that positive about diversity. It is all about a good fit."
Agreed, but i guess we should have figured this out in school
No. Not today.
Not today for me either.
Since other professions were mentioned... I worked for a few years in special ed. I had kids with severe emotional, intellectual, and behavioral problems...I've been attacked with pencils, been punched in the gut while pregnant, witnessed masterbation (it's a medical issue, nothing you can do but ask them to wash up before continuing with the lesson), dealt with piss poop and vomit, listened to kids tell me about their awful home life, watched kids roll around on the floor in a fit... yet it was pretty good... only 1 bad day out about 10. In full time architecture, it was the good days that were similarly numbered at 1 out iof 10. What makes it worse is that in architecture, the crap could be avoided but it is actually part of your compensation.
It's true, architecture sucks.
I am working on getting a temp position with an architect who is going thru the same as the ^ comment, I mean to a "T", with the only exemption, to add me to the mix (independent draftsman). I am to complete a set of drawings for a complex design, but I have no worries I will detail the hell out of the thing , but she is having problems getting the client to answer the phone more or less pay the bill. I get fake emails from clients that seem real....lol my life sucks. Three opportunities, great pay, all seem to be falling thru the roof luckily these are all projects that fell on my lap and I am not working to find them. When I actually start marketing I know I will find a real client.
MyDream real clients come from word of mouth, not marketing. there is a great deal of trust involved in letting you advise clients on how to spend money. work begets work. good work begets better work. first jobs are usually tests.....the Dilbert strip applies because many people in the AEC industry know they can ask an architect to work for free or very hard at getting the opportunity. sometimes its worth it, sometimes there is known risk of wasting your time, and sometimes you realize often too late - you were duped.
^ It all gets back to supply and demand. There are too many architects for the amount of architectural work. And, when the next recession comes along, it will be just that much worse.
You folk really know how to be positive. How do you live with all this positivity on a day to day basis?
Max
I am not going to say what I want to say because I don't want a bunch of people throwing round their negative opinions, I am going to try to avoid that, they feel that they know everything because they work in the field. If they knew how I learned what I know and what I am capable of with this information and how I have planned everything together they would not believe it, you probably wouldn't believe it, but say it is impossible and probably call me a liar and not to mention all of my plans to become a very wealthy architect developer I'll save most of it. I know that my marketing techniques will produce clients, real clients that are going to not only be willing to work with me, but need my services on a daily bases. The architect who I am working on this job with not only was impressed with my portfolio, but said that I am better at Revit than she is, hired me immediately and I expect when I start marketing to have clients acting the same just in a different context. Lastly, I haven't been duped it is going to take a long time to accomplish what I am trying to do but when I get going I know I am going to be very successful these are just bumps in the road.
One more thing if you don't believe that I am going to be a very wealthy architect developer one day, stay on the forum and give me a chance to prove it. Another thing my high horse is knocked down a bit because of another person who figured out how to beat the odds.....Tadao Ando.
^Exceptions don't make the rules. Just because Mr. Ando is successful does not mean any other chump with a dream will be able to replicate such success. It's far more complicated than that. Max's points are not made to belittle. They are very-much a true representation of how work is acquired.
How's professional liability insurance in florida these days?
I don't want to emulate Tadao I have my own plans on how to succeed and I seriously do not like you one bit at all. It did not take long for one of those negative opinions to come strolling along huh? I am sure your Calvary is not far behind so I am going to go back to ignoring you now.
and another thing your a chump, a everyday boring run of the mill architect
Architecture, like many other professions, is an over saturated field. There are positions available. All one can do is apply and take measures to be more attractive as a designer. It's very easy to be bitter but my message to unemployed designers is to continually try to make yourself more attractive by improving work and/or software development. And if you can't attract a company, seek ANY design related work elsewhere or maybe consider another route for making a decent dollar. This is the struggle but there is no use in complaining. I know from experience. I'm finding out that it's better to miss an opportunity than to whine about not finding work. That mentality kills. I actually have been able to find more success as a graphic designer than architectural designer. Just enjoy the day and whatever is in front of you. That's all one can do.
^ I agree
But at least I am an architect... with clients, and real buildings in my portfolio. Don't messily discount constructive criticism when it comes form experience.
^from
So what, I have real buildings in my portfolio working with firms, I have had real clients and I am going to see if one is going to fall though tomorrow, and saying " any other chump with a dream" is not good constructive criticism.
I am suppose to be ignoring you...I can't stand you.
That's too bad... I'm rather well informed.
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