Twelve nobel laureates are among thousands of signatories to a petition calling on Trump to renounce the ban on refugees and to reconsider the executive order.
The petition says the executive order is discriminatory, detrimental to the national interests of the US and will tear families apart.
It has been backed by academics from the US’s most prestigious universities including several Nobel Laureates, fields medalists, National Academy members, and John Bates Clark medalists.
Serious question: Is it possible that there are students studying in U.S. architecture schools right now who are traveling abroad for school programs who will be denied entry back into the U.S. based on this ban?
Dear Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen student applicants for US University entry 2017-18. (lets also assume applicants from India, Saudi and other countries from Muslim countries - the programme will expand)
Although UK has Brexit, please do apply for UK or EU Universities - applications to graduate programmes generally do not have a deadline - so pursue applications at the same time.
Generally apps in the UK do not have a fee to apply (a few do). Pursue programmes at one of 24 Russell group Universities, 10 of which offers Professional Architectural Programmes - lots of great programmes across the UK. Great programmes outside London will save you money in housing - Newcastle, Sheffield, Queens University have more affordable fees and about have the housing cost. Great cities to live in.
The academics against immigration executive order Petition form doesn't currently work. It says they're not receiving any additional signatories currently. Annoying because I'd like to sign.
Some folks I know say that there were so many signing up that they can't currently keep up with confirmation and that it will be up again by tomorrow.
Pence himself called it unconstitutional. While the rights may not extend to immigrants entering, the order itself violates the seperation of church and state.
What is the rationale behind "Academics Against Immigration Executive Order"? Are academics any more competent with the issue at hand than any other group? How about "Brain Surgeons For Immigration Executive Order"? or "Gynecologists Not Really Sure About Immigration Order"?
So, Trump's order royally pissed me off as I watched many people I personally know have their lives effectively ruined by it for the time being.
Being the type of person I am though, I bit the bullet and read through the whole thing just to see what the heck was going on. Pretty boring read to be honest, but something did stick out like a sore thumb that actually confused the crap out of me. None of the countries that fell under the ban are mentioned anywhere in the order with the exception of Syria. What gives? I did a few Ctrl+F's and reviewed it again to make sure I wasn't crazy. Nope, no Iran, Sudan, Yemen, etc... Nothing.
I reread it again and this clause stuck out as the only one actually performing any action:
(c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).
Ok, cool. It references the INA (Immigration Nationality Act) and its updates in the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. Ok great, let's go there and take a look.
SEC. 3. RESTRICTION ON USE OF VISA WAIVER PROGRAM FOR ALIENS WHO TRAVEL TO CERTAIN COUNTRIES.
Ok, nice now we've got Syria and Iraq explicitly somewhere connecting back to the executive order. What about the rest? Let's click on the US code section the Act references:
Here's the text of section 12 a from the government link:
(12) Not present in Iraq, Syria, or any other country or area of concern
(A) In general
Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) and (C)-
(i) the alien has not been present, at any time on or after March 1, 2011-
(I) in Iraq or Syria;
(II) in a country that is designated by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) in any other country or area of concern designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D); and
(ii) regardless of whether the alien is a national of a program country, the alien is not a national of-
(I) Iraq or Syria;
(II) a country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) any other country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D).
Still no mention of the other 5 countries; Sudan, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Somalia; neither in the Act nor the US Code. The only other thing that stuck out was ii - III (bolded). Ok, now we're getting somewhere.
So Homeland Security can designate any other country in addition to Syria and Iraq to be singled out. When were these countries designated?
These 7 countries were under extreme scrutiny by Homeland Security in addition to stringent vetting procedure upgrades culminating in the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. Effectively, they were singled out from the visa-waiver program and immigration process by Acts of Congress signed in to law by the Obama administration including additions by the Secretary of Homeland Security in early 2016, also under the same Obama administration.
So the Executive Order only references an existing framework from the previous administration, since it never actually mentions any of those countries by name (except for Syria), and references existing US Code and Law to determine which countries are affected? Weird, I thought Trump was just throwing darts at a map of the Middle East. (Kidding).
Anyway, none of this really is to justify the order; it really was an act of stupidity, waste of money and time through poor execution and coordination. If you were from one of those countries, getting a visa to begin with was akin to winning the lottery. The "vetting" system was already there, already very strict, updated in 2015, and twice again in 2016 and was more or less moving smoothly and efficiently. Why then the redundancy from the Trump administration? What point are they trying to prove? Vetting people that were already vetted? And in the process confusing the fuck out of immigration authorities, having the State Department have to clarify that green-card holders are excluded? Amateurs.
The whole thing, the more I look at it, seems more like a redundant PR stunt to stir shit up by Bannon-Trump Inc. The discriminatory framework for the Executive Order was inherited from the Obama administration, and it's important to note that so we stay on point in terms of what's important. The United States, irrelevant of political party or administration, has spent a good portion of the past decade breaking those countries through military and covert operations; and when they collapsed in to failure, citizens from those countries were placed under extreme and unfair scrutiny by Homeland Security and Congress. What did Trump really do then? Well, seems to me like he acted like an amateur clown trying to flex his newly acquired muscles to appease his idiotic base by ignorantly doubling-down on something that was already there. But, please, let's not be naive and pretend that everything was a bed of roses before. The reason these people are refugees to begin with is a direct result of US foreign policy, under Bush AND Obama.
Serious question: Is it possible that there are students studying in U.S. architecture schools right now who are traveling abroad for school programs who will be denied entry back into the U.S. based on this ban?
Dear Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen student applicants for US University entry 2017-18. (lets also assume applicants from India, Saudi and other countries from Muslim countries - the programme will expand)
Although UK has Brexit, please do apply for UK or EU Universities - applications to graduate programmes generally do not have a deadline - so pursue applications at the same time.
Generally apps in the UK do not have a fee to apply (a few do). Pursue programmes at one of 24 Russell group Universities, 10 of which offers Professional Architectural Programmes - lots of great programmes across the UK. Great programmes outside London will save you money in housing - Newcastle, Sheffield, Queens University have more affordable fees and about have the housing cost. Great cities to live in.
I went to architecture school with a fairly high percentage of students from Middle Eastern countries. I'm still in touch with many of them on FB etc.
*Without a doubt* my architecture school experience was better by being in the studio with people from varying backgrounds. WITHOUT A DOUBT. I'm a better person today because of that open environment as I learned architecture.
SO completely appalled at our country right now. Sick and sad.
@knock knock
Seems to me it's an isolated incident. You know, those same isolated incidents individuals with muslim extremist backgrounds that went on killing sprees. No cause for panic imo ;)
On that note, they should've removed the nobel laureate for Peace since it's fast becoming a farce.
I mean ffs barack obama? The dalai lama? Aung san suu kyi? Whatttttttt?
^ that's what I always say too, then people freak out for some reason. Most people don't get that, it isn't even on their radar, j. Supposedly conservatives are for a weaker federal gov but Trump isn't conservative. Again, mind blown.
those were not isolated incidents but planned terrorist attacks, so are the attacks on mosques. we're not playing word games here. Don't be so nonchalant when it comes to anti-Muslim terror, it really erodes your point if there's one and reduces you to a bumbling bloke.
In case you didn't grasp the sarcasm earlier, I was taking a jab at the joke of an "unbiased" mainstream media you libtards so love. Those were precisely planned attacks downplayed by said media for whatever reasons. As for anti-muslim terror, sure it breaks my heart but it does feel like recoil against the establishment pushing for open borders. Can't say I don't empathize with them.
The academics against immigration executive order Petition form doesn't currently work. It says they're not receiving any additional signatories currently. Annoying because I'd like to sign.
Some folks I know say that there were so many signing up that they can't currently keep up with confirmation and that it will be up again by tomorrow.
Yup tinnt. Its Sickening. People take liberty for granted. Liberty that generations of Americans have fought and died for. Liberty should take more than the swipe of a pen to undo.
jla-lax: It is NOT unconstitutional. Non citizens of the US don't have constitutional right to enter our country any more than we have a right to enter theirs. We can argue whether the ban is wise or not, but the constitution doesn't prohibit stupidity. If it did, most of us would be doing hard time at Leavenworth.
Jan 28, 17 6:32 pm ·
·
awaiting_deletion's comment has been hidden
View comment
Pence himself called it unconstitutional. While the rights may not extend to immigrants entering, the order itself violates the seperation of church and state.
What is the rationale behind "Academics Against Immigration Executive Order"? Are academics any more competent with the issue at hand than any other group? How about "Brain Surgeons For Immigration Executive Order"? or "Gynecologists Not Really Sure About Immigration Order"?
Just a tip, lay off the mainstream media kool-aid and put on ye old thinking hat for a moment. Realize that a ban at this scale isn't new, and countries on the list were identified by the reps' beloved obama.
Wasn't news then, not sure why it should be now other than the...you know, trump hate bandwagon thing kids these days love to rave about.
Below are some very selfish reasons I will argue that anti immigration and any such supporting actions based on religion or other prejudges are bad for me as an aspiring American Architect.
1. We need immigration to grow the population or else the average birth rate will fall and our population and their need for housing schools hospitals and other public buildings that I have had opportunities to work on in the past will diminish. More people mean more buildings.
2. Anecdotally, and based on some reading, it seems that immigrants are more likely to start new businesses than people already living in the US. I don't know if there is any blanket reason or factor but I imagine people who take the enormous risk and gamble to leave their country, often never to return, and start someplace new are probably less turned off by the comparably less risky endeavor to open a business. I want new businesses to start up so I can work on those projects, they can be restaurants hotels and all manner of office and manufacturing buildings, so many design opportunities will be squandered if we turn back more immigrants.
3. I like to eat all kinds of food, there is a dire shortage of good Somali restaurants near me in Chicago, I also would not mind if there were more ethnic food options so that I can enjoy a wider culinary experience, something that ranges much farther than Pizza and cheeseburgers.
4. In my particular neighborhood in Chicago, Rogers Park, recent immigrants are the only force keeping institutions and their architecturally significant buildings up and running. Churches, Temples and Fraternal Societies are populated by more immigrants than native born Americans. I, we need to keep these places full of people so I can continue to enjoy the architecture and visit during the Chicago Architecture Foundation Open House.
Many of these places would be closed if not for recent immigrants
5. My Dad is in his 80s and will soon need someone to help in his care, a not so glamorous job that I, as an architect, could not afford to pay a lot for someone to help with house keeping and other task that may become difficult and or dangerous for my Dad. We need workers who are willing to do this hard work, I can pay fair wages but if we lose people in our workforce through population decline elder care cost will skyrocket.
6. the disposition of my downstairs neighbors. The Haitian, eastern European and Hispanic neighbors who have been the best neighbors to have have been upset and on edge, I don't want to lose the neighbors who are quiet at night and who deterred a break in by questioning the stranger who was trying to break into my back door and who say hello in a cheerful way most times we see each other.
Those are my selfish reason I don't support the stupid anti immigration policies that tend to come from the Republicans. I hope others can tell me their selfish reasons for one side or the other for such silly and counter productive hate inspired Shit coming from our own Nasty Man in the White House.
The ban is a complete disrespect of this nations founding principles and traditions. To come so soon after he took office highlights how arrogant and foolish this wannabe fascist is. Fortunately, the light of liberty shines through our citizens to resist this action. Its very powerful and comforting to know that such a diverse and large groups of AMERICANS Stand up for each other.
A few thoughts that came to mind while witnessing the protests....
If fascism comes bearing the cloak of patriotism then we the people must redefine patriotism and OWN IT along with its symbols. We need to strip the veil of patriotism from this treasonous administration. To me, Patriotism is a love and kinship with the people, the land, and the guiding principles of the nation. The protesters have demonstrated this patriotism. We need to brand them CORRECTLY as PATRIOTS and brand the administration correcly as TRAITORS.
So, Trump's order royally pissed me off as I watched many people I personally know have their lives effectively ruined by it for the time being.
Being the type of person I am though, I bit the bullet and read through the whole thing just to see what the heck was going on. Pretty boring read to be honest, but something did stick out like a sore thumb that actually confused the crap out of me. None of the countries that fell under the ban are mentioned anywhere in the order with the exception of Syria. What gives? I did a few Ctrl+F's and reviewed it again to make sure I wasn't crazy. Nope, no Iran, Sudan, Yemen, etc... Nothing.
I reread it again and this clause stuck out as the only one actually performing any action:
(c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).
Ok, cool. It references the INA (Immigration Nationality Act) and its updates in the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. Ok great, let's go there and take a look.
SEC. 3. RESTRICTION ON USE OF VISA WAIVER PROGRAM FOR ALIENS WHO TRAVEL TO CERTAIN COUNTRIES.
Ok, nice now we've got Syria and Iraq explicitly somewhere connecting back to the executive order. What about the rest? Let's click on the US code section the Act references:
Here's the text of section 12 a from the government link:
(12) Not present in Iraq, Syria, or any other country or area of concern
(A) In general
Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) and (C)-
(i) the alien has not been present, at any time on or after March 1, 2011-
(I) in Iraq or Syria;
(II) in a country that is designated by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) in any other country or area of concern designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D); and
(ii) regardless of whether the alien is a national of a program country, the alien is not a national of-
(I) Iraq or Syria;
(II) a country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) any other country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D).
Still no mention of the other 5 countries; Sudan, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Somalia; neither in the Act nor the US Code. The only other thing that stuck out was ii - III (bolded). Ok, now we're getting somewhere.
So Homeland Security can designate any other country in addition to Syria and Iraq to be singled out. When were these countries designated?
These 7 countries were under extreme scrutiny by Homeland Security in addition to stringent vetting procedure upgrades culminating in the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. Effectively, they were singled out from the visa-waiver program and immigration process by Acts of Congress signed in to law by the Obama administration including additions by the Secretary of Homeland Security in early 2016, also under the same Obama administration.
So the Executive Order only references an existing framework from the previous administration, since it never actually mentions any of those countries by name (except for Syria), and references existing US Code and Law to determine which countries are affected? Weird, I thought Trump was just throwing darts at a map of the Middle East. (Kidding).
Anyway, none of this really is to justify the order; it really was an act of stupidity, waste of money and time through poor execution and coordination. If you were from one of those countries, getting a visa to begin with was akin to winning the lottery. The "vetting" system was already there, already very strict, updated in 2015, and twice again in 2016 and was more or less moving smoothly and efficiently. Why then the redundancy from the Trump administration? What point are they trying to prove? Vetting people that were already vetted? And in the process confusing the fuck out of immigration authorities, having the State Department have to clarify that green-card holders are excluded? Amateurs.
The whole thing, the more I look at it, seems more like a redundant PR stunt to stir shit up by Bannon-Trump Inc. The discriminatory framework for the Executive Order was inherited from the Obama administration, and it's important to note that so we stay on point in terms of what's important. The United States, irrelevant of political party or administration, has spent a good portion of the past decade breaking those countries through military and covert operations; and when they collapsed in to failure, citizens from those countries were placed under extreme and unfair scrutiny by Homeland Security and Congress. What did Trump really do then? Well, seems to me like he acted like an amateur clown trying to flex his newly acquired muscles to appease his idiotic base by ignorantly doubling-down on something that was already there. But, please, let's not be naive and pretend that everything was a bed of roses before. The reason these people are refugees to begin with is a direct result of US foreign policy, under Bush AND Obama.
"The discriminatory framework for the executive order..."
disagree. It may be a fact that those 7 nations are known terrorist training cells. That's beside the point though. The order was obviously rationalized and "justified" in the past admins conclusions, but its rooted in Trumps promose of a "Muslim ban". He simply used the obama admins list to provide a non-religous guise for a "muslim ban".
AI if everyone could only read like you, or you know like an architect that deals with code occasionally write legally binding documentation. I think you are forgetting one step or aspect though when we get to your conclusions. its a PR stunt both sides of the Trump reality show and "liberal media". oddly enough Fox news has been covering more real news than CNN and MSNBC lately. is that because their opinion is in the white house now? is that because Fox's accusation that the liberal media is and had been in collusion with the government for 2 terms of recent presidency? AI's research would perhaps prove such. who is calling this a "muslim ban"? or who is propogating this? is it possible, Trump was a building developer and knows exactly how to spin something for the local community boards while his architects advise him on the zoning and law. maybe 1984 should of been of interest since, well 1984! or at least when Cable News Networks became profitable. - Max Headroom, F.AIA
Jan 30, 17 7:52 am ·
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Academics Against Immigration Executive Order
Twelve nobel laureates are among thousands of signatories to a petition calling on Trump to renounce the ban on refugees and to reconsider the executive order.
The petition says the executive order is discriminatory, detrimental to the national interests of the US and will tear families apart.
It has been backed by academics from the US’s most prestigious universities including several Nobel Laureates, fields medalists, National Academy members, and John Bates Clark medalists.
The petition is found here: https://notoimmigrationban.com/
8 Featured Comments
Serious question: Is it possible that there are students studying in U.S. architecture schools right now who are traveling abroad for school programs who will be denied entry back into the U.S. based on this ban?
Yes, Donna. Very possible. Green card and visa holders were being blocked from boarding US-bound flights within hours of Donald Trump issuing an executive order limiting immigration from several Muslim countries, according to reports.
_________________________
Dear Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen student applicants for US University entry 2017-18. (lets also assume applicants from India, Saudi and other countries from Muslim countries - the programme will expand)
Although UK has Brexit, please do apply for UK or EU Universities - applications to graduate programmes generally do not have a deadline - so pursue applications at the same time.
Generally apps in the UK do not have a fee to apply (a few do). Pursue programmes at one of 24 Russell group Universities, 10 of which offers Professional Architectural Programmes - lots of great programmes across the UK. Great programmes outside London will save you money in housing - Newcastle, Sheffield, Queens University have more affordable fees and about have the housing cost. Great cities to live in.
See you all soon!
Would be good to hear if any Universities have emailed students on this issue ------Please post email text.
Outrageous.
The academics against immigration executive order Petition form doesn't currently work. It says they're not receiving any additional signatories currently. Annoying because I'd like to sign.
Some folks I know say that there were so many signing up that they can't currently keep up with confirmation and that it will be up again by tomorrow.
Pence himself called it unconstitutional. While the rights may not extend to immigrants entering, the order itself violates the seperation of church and state.
What is the rationale behind "Academics Against Immigration Executive Order"? Are academics any more competent with the issue at hand than any other group? How about "Brain Surgeons For Immigration Executive Order"? or "Gynecologists Not Really Sure About Immigration Order"?
The Recent Executive Order on Immigration From: NYU President Andrew Hamilton
Duke Univesity
Toledo
Temple
Florida State
Penn State
So, Trump's order royally pissed me off as I watched many people I personally know have their lives effectively ruined by it for the time being.
Being the type of person I am though, I bit the bullet and read through the whole thing just to see what the heck was going on. Pretty boring read to be honest, but something did stick out like a sore thumb that actually confused the crap out of me. None of the countries that fell under the ban are mentioned anywhere in the order with the exception of Syria. What gives? I did a few Ctrl+F's and reviewed it again to make sure I wasn't crazy. Nope, no Iran, Sudan, Yemen, etc... Nothing.
Here's the full text of the order:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-muslim-executive-order-trump.html?_r=0
I reread it again and this clause stuck out as the only one actually performing any action:
(c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).
Ok, cool. It references the INA (Immigration Nationality Act) and its updates in the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. Ok great, let's go there and take a look.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158/text
SEC. 3. RESTRICTION ON USE OF VISA WAIVER PROGRAM FOR ALIENS WHO TRAVEL TO CERTAIN COUNTRIES.
Ok, nice now we've got Syria and Iraq explicitly somewhere connecting back to the executive order. What about the rest? Let's click on the US code section the Act references:
http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8%20section:1187%20edition:prelim)
8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12)
Here's the text of section 12 a from the government link:
(12) Not present in Iraq, Syria, or any other country or area of concern
(A) In general
Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) and (C)-
(i) the alien has not been present, at any time on or after March 1, 2011-
(I) in Iraq or Syria;
(II) in a country that is designated by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) in any other country or area of concern designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D); and
(ii) regardless of whether the alien is a national of a program country, the alien is not a national of-
(I) Iraq or Syria;
(II) a country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) any other country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D).
Still no mention of the other 5 countries; Sudan, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Somalia; neither in the Act nor the US Code. The only other thing that stuck out was ii - III (bolded). Ok, now we're getting somewhere.
So Homeland Security can designate any other country in addition to Syria and Iraq to be singled out. When were these countries designated?
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/united-states-begins-implementation-changes-visa-waiver-program
Secretary of Homeland Security mentions Iraq, Iran, Sudan, and Syria on January 21st 2016 and then 1 month later:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program
Mentions Libya, Somalia, and Yemen.
These 7 countries were under extreme scrutiny by Homeland Security in addition to stringent vetting procedure upgrades culminating in the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. Effectively, they were singled out from the visa-waiver program and immigration process by Acts of Congress signed in to law by the Obama administration including additions by the Secretary of Homeland Security in early 2016, also under the same Obama administration.
So the Executive Order only references an existing framework from the previous administration, since it never actually mentions any of those countries by name (except for Syria), and references existing US Code and Law to determine which countries are affected? Weird, I thought Trump was just throwing darts at a map of the Middle East. (Kidding).
Anyway, none of this really is to justify the order; it really was an act of stupidity, waste of money and time through poor execution and coordination. If you were from one of those countries, getting a visa to begin with was akin to winning the lottery. The "vetting" system was already there, already very strict, updated in 2015, and twice again in 2016 and was more or less moving smoothly and efficiently. Why then the redundancy from the Trump administration? What point are they trying to prove? Vetting people that were already vetted? And in the process confusing the fuck out of immigration authorities, having the State Department have to clarify that green-card holders are excluded? Amateurs.
The whole thing, the more I look at it, seems more like a redundant PR stunt to stir shit up by Bannon-Trump Inc. The discriminatory framework for the Executive Order was inherited from the Obama administration, and it's important to note that so we stay on point in terms of what's important. The United States, irrelevant of political party or administration, has spent a good portion of the past decade breaking those countries through military and covert operations; and when they collapsed in to failure, citizens from those countries were placed under extreme and unfair scrutiny by Homeland Security and Congress. What did Trump really do then? Well, seems to me like he acted like an amateur clown trying to flex his newly acquired muscles to appease his idiotic base by ignorantly doubling-down on something that was already there. But, please, let's not be naive and pretend that everything was a bed of roses before. The reason these people are refugees to begin with is a direct result of US foreign policy, under Bush AND Obama.
All 40 Comments
Should've thought about how the chickens would one day come home to roost and entered via proper channels
On that note, I for one surely am not looking forward to terror attacks in the homeland should there be laxed migration checks.
^ What about "laxed" Nazi checks?
https://thinkprogress.org/islamic-center-of-victoria-fire-8a683f632a7a#.eyns72jx1
Serious question: Is it possible that there are students studying in U.S. architecture schools right now who are traveling abroad for school programs who will be denied entry back into the U.S. based on this ban?
Donna - most likely.
What?
Yes, Donna. Very possible. Green card and visa holders were being blocked from boarding US-bound flights within hours of Donald Trump issuing an executive order limiting immigration from several Muslim countries, according to reports.
_________________________
Dear Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen student applicants for US University entry 2017-18. (lets also assume applicants from India, Saudi and other countries from Muslim countries - the programme will expand)
Although UK has Brexit, please do apply for UK or EU Universities - applications to graduate programmes generally do not have a deadline - so pursue applications at the same time.
Generally apps in the UK do not have a fee to apply (a few do). Pursue programmes at one of 24 Russell group Universities, 10 of which offers Professional Architectural Programmes - lots of great programmes across the UK. Great programmes outside London will save you money in housing - Newcastle, Sheffield, Queens University have more affordable fees and about have the housing cost. Great cities to live in.
See you all soon!
I went to architecture school with a fairly high percentage of students from Middle Eastern countries. I'm still in touch with many of them on FB etc.
*Without a doubt* my architecture school experience was better by being in the studio with people from varying backgrounds. WITHOUT A DOUBT. I'm a better person today because of that open environment as I learned architecture.
SO completely appalled at our country right now. Sick and sad.
@knock knock Seems to me it's an isolated incident. You know, those same isolated incidents individuals with muslim extremist backgrounds that went on killing sprees. No cause for panic imo ;)
On that note, they should've removed the nobel laureate for Peace since it's fast becoming a farce. I mean ffs barack obama? The dalai lama? Aung san suu kyi? Whatttttttt?
This is Unconstitutional and trump should be impeached immediately. He is Dystopian.
This is why the Federal govt must be kept small and weak! Understand now?
^ that's what I always say too, then people freak out for some reason. Most people don't get that, it isn't even on their radar, j. Supposedly conservatives are for a weaker federal gov but Trump isn't conservative. Again, mind blown.
Would be good to hear if any Universities have emailed students on this issue ------Please post email text.
Outrageous.
“More than 17,000 international students in the U.S. hail from the 7 Muslim-majority countries affected by the immediate 90-day entry ban.”
archietechie,
those were not isolated incidents but planned terrorist attacks, so are the attacks on mosques. we're not playing word games here. Don't be so nonchalant when it comes to anti-Muslim terror, it really erodes your point if there's one and reduces you to a bumbling bloke.
In case you didn't grasp the sarcasm earlier, I was taking a jab at the joke of an "unbiased" mainstream media you libtards so love. Those were precisely planned attacks downplayed by said media for whatever reasons. As for anti-muslim terror, sure it breaks my heart but it does feel like recoil against the establishment pushing for open borders. Can't say I don't empathize with them.
The academics against immigration executive order Petition form doesn't currently work. It says they're not receiving any additional signatories currently. Annoying because I'd like to sign.
Some folks I know say that there were so many signing up that they can't currently keep up with confirmation and that it will be up again by tomorrow.
libtards? how original. you are what I thought you would be, a decay.
Yup tinnt. Its Sickening. People take liberty for granted. Liberty that generations of Americans have fought and died for. Liberty should take more than the swipe of a pen to undo.
jla-lax: It is NOT unconstitutional. Non citizens of the US don't have constitutional right to enter our country any more than we have a right to enter theirs. We can argue whether the ban is wise or not, but the constitution doesn't prohibit stupidity. If it did, most of us would be doing hard time at Leavenworth.
.
Pence himself called it unconstitutional. While the rights may not extend to immigrants entering, the order itself violates the seperation of church and state.
How is Trump's order establishing a religion?
Conflicts with the Equal protection clause and due process as well.
What is the rationale behind "Academics Against Immigration Executive Order"? Are academics any more competent with the issue at hand than any other group? How about "Brain Surgeons For Immigration Executive Order"? or "Gynecologists Not Really Sure About Immigration Order"?
@knock knock. Just calling a spade a spade.
Excellent. And, as a spade, I am calling you "bigoted coward" from here on.
Have fun! Be careful around the wall, you know, the whole enchilada thing!
^ Hah! Ran out of arguments eh?
Just a tip, lay off the mainstream media kool-aid and put on ye old thinking hat for a moment. Realize that a ban at this scale isn't new, and countries on the list were identified by the reps' beloved obama.
Wasn't news then, not sure why it should be now other than the...you know, trump hate bandwagon thing kids these days love to rave about.
Arguments?
I have nothing to argue with a bigoted coward.
The Recent Executive Order on Immigration From: NYU President Andrew Hamilton
Duke Univesity
Toledo
Temple
Florida State
Penn State
Below are some very selfish reasons I will argue that anti immigration and any such supporting actions based on religion or other prejudges are bad for me as an aspiring American Architect.
1. We need immigration to grow the population or else the average birth rate will fall and our population and their need for housing schools hospitals and other public buildings that I have had opportunities to work on in the past will diminish. More people mean more buildings.
2. Anecdotally, and based on some reading, it seems that immigrants are more likely to start new businesses than people already living in the US. I don't know if there is any blanket reason or factor but I imagine people who take the enormous risk and gamble to leave their country, often never to return, and start someplace new are probably less turned off by the comparably less risky endeavor to open a business. I want new businesses to start up so I can work on those projects, they can be restaurants hotels and all manner of office and manufacturing buildings, so many design opportunities will be squandered if we turn back more immigrants.
http://www.renewoureconomy.org/research/open-for-business-how-immigrants-are-driving-small-business-creation-in-the-united-states-2/
https://fee.org/articles/immigrants-are-twice-as-likely-to-start-a-business-lets-let-them/
https://www.fastcompany.com/3015616/the-shocking-stats-about-whos-really-starting-companies-in-america
3. I like to eat all kinds of food, there is a dire shortage of good Somali restaurants near me in Chicago, I also would not mind if there were more ethnic food options so that I can enjoy a wider culinary experience, something that ranges much farther than Pizza and cheeseburgers.
4. In my particular neighborhood in Chicago, Rogers Park, recent immigrants are the only force keeping institutions and their architecturally significant buildings up and running. Churches, Temples and Fraternal Societies are populated by more immigrants than native born Americans. I, we need to keep these places full of people so I can continue to enjoy the architecture and visit during the Chicago Architecture Foundation Open House.
http://openhousechicago.org/sites/site/st-jerome-roman-catholic-church/
http://openhousechicago.org/sites/site/international-society-for-krishna-consciousness-iskcon/
Also,but not in my neighborhood major architectural sites supported by recent immigrants
http://openhousechicago.org/sites/site/st-ita-roman-catholic-church/
http://openhousechicago.org/sites/site/st-alphonsus-roman-catholic-church/
http://openhousechicago.org/sites/site/st-nicholas-ukrainian-catholic-cathedral/
http://openhousechicago.org/sites/site/sts-volodymyr-olha-ukrainian-catholic-church/
http://openhousechicago.org/sites/site/second-presbyterian-church/
Many of these places would be closed if not for recent immigrants
5. My Dad is in his 80s and will soon need someone to help in his care, a not so glamorous job that I, as an architect, could not afford to pay a lot for someone to help with house keeping and other task that may become difficult and or dangerous for my Dad. We need workers who are willing to do this hard work, I can pay fair wages but if we lose people in our workforce through population decline elder care cost will skyrocket.
6. the disposition of my downstairs neighbors. The Haitian, eastern European and Hispanic neighbors who have been the best neighbors to have have been upset and on edge, I don't want to lose the neighbors who are quiet at night and who deterred a break in by questioning the stranger who was trying to break into my back door and who say hello in a cheerful way most times we see each other.
Those are my selfish reason I don't support the stupid anti immigration policies that tend to come from the Republicans. I hope others can tell me their selfish reasons for one side or the other for such silly and counter productive hate inspired Shit coming from our own Nasty Man in the White House.
Over and OUT
Peter N
@Volunteer-
You are correct, that academics are no more qualified to comment than others. But-
1- They do have an invested interest in immigration given recruiting (and financing) trends.
2- Those fields you reference in the medical "arts" (profession) start with Higher ed,
Shameful to see so many archinectors siding with Trump's executive order. Guess ignorance and bigotry exists in our profession too.
sameolddoctor, no, not as many as you think, but online trolls feel free to be even more deplorable when they post with unanimity.
Over and OUT
Peter N
The ban is a complete disrespect of this nations founding principles and traditions. To come so soon after he took office highlights how arrogant and foolish this wannabe fascist is. Fortunately, the light of liberty shines through our citizens to resist this action. Its very powerful and comforting to know that such a diverse and large groups of AMERICANS Stand up for each other.
A few thoughts that came to mind while witnessing the protests....
If fascism comes bearing the cloak of patriotism then we the people must redefine patriotism and OWN IT along with its symbols. We need to strip the veil of patriotism from this treasonous administration. To me, Patriotism is a love and kinship with the people, the land, and the guiding principles of the nation. The protesters have demonstrated this patriotism. We need to brand them CORRECTLY as PATRIOTS and brand the administration correcly as TRAITORS.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria
So, Trump's order royally pissed me off as I watched many people I personally know have their lives effectively ruined by it for the time being.
Being the type of person I am though, I bit the bullet and read through the whole thing just to see what the heck was going on. Pretty boring read to be honest, but something did stick out like a sore thumb that actually confused the crap out of me. None of the countries that fell under the ban are mentioned anywhere in the order with the exception of Syria. What gives? I did a few Ctrl+F's and reviewed it again to make sure I wasn't crazy. Nope, no Iran, Sudan, Yemen, etc... Nothing.
Here's the full text of the order:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-muslim-executive-order-trump.html?_r=0
I reread it again and this clause stuck out as the only one actually performing any action:
(c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).
Ok, cool. It references the INA (Immigration Nationality Act) and its updates in the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. Ok great, let's go there and take a look.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158/text
SEC. 3. RESTRICTION ON USE OF VISA WAIVER PROGRAM FOR ALIENS WHO TRAVEL TO CERTAIN COUNTRIES.
Ok, nice now we've got Syria and Iraq explicitly somewhere connecting back to the executive order. What about the rest? Let's click on the US code section the Act references:
http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8%20section:1187%20edition:prelim)
8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12)
Here's the text of section 12 a from the government link:
(12) Not present in Iraq, Syria, or any other country or area of concern
(A) In general
Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) and (C)-
(i) the alien has not been present, at any time on or after March 1, 2011-
(I) in Iraq or Syria;
(II) in a country that is designated by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) in any other country or area of concern designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D); and
(ii) regardless of whether the alien is a national of a program country, the alien is not a national of-
(I) Iraq or Syria;
(II) a country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of State under section 4605(j) of title 50 (as continued in effect under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)), section 2780 of title 22, section 2371 of title 22, or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or
(III) any other country that is designated, at the time the alien applies for admission, by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D).
Still no mention of the other 5 countries; Sudan, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Somalia; neither in the Act nor the US Code. The only other thing that stuck out was ii - III (bolded). Ok, now we're getting somewhere.
So Homeland Security can designate any other country in addition to Syria and Iraq to be singled out. When were these countries designated?
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/united-states-begins-implementation-changes-visa-waiver-program
Secretary of Homeland Security mentions Iraq, Iran, Sudan, and Syria on January 21st 2016 and then 1 month later:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program
Mentions Libya, Somalia, and Yemen.
These 7 countries were under extreme scrutiny by Homeland Security in addition to stringent vetting procedure upgrades culminating in the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015. Effectively, they were singled out from the visa-waiver program and immigration process by Acts of Congress signed in to law by the Obama administration including additions by the Secretary of Homeland Security in early 2016, also under the same Obama administration.
So the Executive Order only references an existing framework from the previous administration, since it never actually mentions any of those countries by name (except for Syria), and references existing US Code and Law to determine which countries are affected? Weird, I thought Trump was just throwing darts at a map of the Middle East. (Kidding).
Anyway, none of this really is to justify the order; it really was an act of stupidity, waste of money and time through poor execution and coordination. If you were from one of those countries, getting a visa to begin with was akin to winning the lottery. The "vetting" system was already there, already very strict, updated in 2015, and twice again in 2016 and was more or less moving smoothly and efficiently. Why then the redundancy from the Trump administration? What point are they trying to prove? Vetting people that were already vetted? And in the process confusing the fuck out of immigration authorities, having the State Department have to clarify that green-card holders are excluded? Amateurs.
The whole thing, the more I look at it, seems more like a redundant PR stunt to stir shit up by Bannon-Trump Inc. The discriminatory framework for the Executive Order was inherited from the Obama administration, and it's important to note that so we stay on point in terms of what's important. The United States, irrelevant of political party or administration, has spent a good portion of the past decade breaking those countries through military and covert operations; and when they collapsed in to failure, citizens from those countries were placed under extreme and unfair scrutiny by Homeland Security and Congress. What did Trump really do then? Well, seems to me like he acted like an amateur clown trying to flex his newly acquired muscles to appease his idiotic base by ignorantly doubling-down on something that was already there. But, please, let's not be naive and pretend that everything was a bed of roses before. The reason these people are refugees to begin with is a direct result of US foreign policy, under Bush AND Obama.
"The discriminatory framework for the executive order..."
disagree. It may be a fact that those 7 nations are known terrorist training cells. That's beside the point though. The order was obviously rationalized and "justified" in the past admins conclusions, but its rooted in Trumps promose of a "Muslim ban". He simply used the obama admins list to provide a non-religous guise for a "muslim ban".
AI if everyone could only read like you, or you know like an architect that deals with code occasionally write legally binding documentation. I think you are forgetting one step or aspect though when we get to your conclusions. its a PR stunt both sides of the Trump reality show and "liberal media". oddly enough Fox news has been covering more real news than CNN and MSNBC lately. is that because their opinion is in the white house now? is that because Fox's accusation that the liberal media is and had been in collusion with the government for 2 terms of recent presidency? AI's research would perhaps prove such. who is calling this a "muslim ban"? or who is propogating this? is it possible, Trump was a building developer and knows exactly how to spin something for the local community boards while his architects advise him on the zoning and law. maybe 1984 should of been of interest since, well 1984! or at least when Cable News Networks became profitable. - Max Headroom, F.AIA
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