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CPBD exam specifications under review by NCBDC.

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x-jla

LOL.  Too bad he doesn't have kangaroo legs...he could've just jumped up there with the protractor...

May 3, 16 6:11 pm  · 
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x-jla

That's not a protractor Olaf, it's a boomerang.  

May 3, 16 6:12 pm  · 
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x-jla

98% of Kangaroos support Banning Balkins from Archinect.  

May 3, 16 6:19 pm  · 
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awaiting_deletion

real Kangaroos use Boomerangs to determine roof slopes!

 

#k4l

May 3, 16 6:47 pm  · 
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SpontaneousCombustion

Richard in a sincere effort to understand how you arrived at such a different height than the engineer did even though you and the engineer seem to agree on the basic construction of the building, I went back several pages and checked out all the places where you discuss dimensions and your math.  I found yet another big reason why what you're saying doesn't add up (literally):  you repeatedly mix up tenths of a foot with twelfths of a foot.  Example:  you said that a 20 foot long roof truss with a 5:12 pitch is 8'-3" inches high - which is wrong -  so I worked backwards through what you posted to figure out how you got there.  What happened is that you divided 5 by 12 (the correct first step), and got .416667 (the correct result), and then multiplied that by 20 feet (the correct 2nd step), and got 8.333 feet (the correct result), and then you rounded that to 8'-3" (WRONG).  8.333 feet is 8'-4", not 8'-3".  You did this exact same thing in at least three other places in arriving at your  conclusion that this building is less than 20' high conclusion (WRONG again.)

May 3, 16 7:39 pm  · 
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you don't submit DD drawings to a owner? how does the owner review a design with their various stakeholders if they don't have drawings. I've never heard of any other way to be honest.

You just said what I said. I handed the client the DD drawing for the client to review (yes, stakeholders, too.).

May 3, 16 8:15 pm  · 
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Dangermouse

Lets see those drawings, Balkans.  Take a picture with your phone and upload it to imgur 

May 3, 16 8:33 pm  · 
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x-jla

I don't believe Rick really designed it.  I bet it's a big lie.  

May 3, 16 8:43 pm  · 
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SpontaneousCombustion, 

I just drew up in CAD a simple section for you. Look at EVERY photo and count the CMU blocks and where necessary, the bricks on the pilasters. You'll realize my numbers will be pretty much on the mark. It's a simplified CAD drawing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9hgstov3a8gb53/ASOC%20elevation%20Simple.dwg?dl=0

This is not the DD drawings.

May 3, 16 8:46 pm  · 
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Fivescore

I think that too, except...  I can't wrap my head around why he wouldn't have pretended to design a better building.  if you were an insecure, inexperienced person with a chip on your shoulder and delusions of grandeur, why would you pretend to design THAT?  

May 3, 16 8:49 pm  · 
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You should note the floor is not perfectly flat but across and east-west, it's not much as all. Even along the north/south axis, it isn't much. Shim as needed not entire 2x members underneath. On top of that, its not even uniformed across consistently. When I began the project, there was parts of the building with linoleum tiles, carpet in another section and unexposed slab.

May 3, 16 8:55 pm  · 
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SpontaneousCombustion

You've got the roof pitch wrong again.  Your lines are at 22.33 degrees.  As I've already carefully explained to you, a 5:12 pitch is a 22.64 degree angle.  Over the span of the building width that error alone resulted in your drawing being nearly 1.5" too short.  See you just don't seem to be understanding that these little things do matter and that the cumulative error of all of your mistakes is several inches.

Thank you for the drawing - when I get a chance I will identify all of your other errors in math, observation, drawing, and dimensions, flag them, overlay the correct lines on top of your own CAD drawing in red, and send that along to the state board as additional evidence that the building exceeds the height limitation. 

May 3, 16 9:08 pm  · 
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x-jla

Threesleeve, I'm not a psychologist, and it seems that's what he really needs, but I would guess that he was around the discussion of this remodel at some point and made some verbal recommendations about paint color or some other minor bullshit.  He probably then twisted it into a fantasy of being the designer.  He most likely felt that he deserved major credit for his minor contribution.  He then obsessed over it and became so deluded that he began to believe it.  It's actually really sad if I'm correct.  

May 3, 16 9:12 pm  · 
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poop876

How do you guys have time to read this bull shit or time to respond to all this nonsense?

May 3, 16 10:01 pm  · 
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Ok, I see it was something with angular accuracy of the CAD program screwing it up. Corrected it. Just wait for the link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9hgstov3a8gb53/ASOC%20elevation%20Simple.dwg?dl=0

Download it again and replace the file. It should have an angle as well.

May 3, 16 10:06 pm  · 
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Sponty, 

5:12 is actually 22.62 degrees.

Or more accurately 22.61986495 degrees.

May 3, 16 10:07 pm  · 
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19'-81/2" to 19'-10 1/2"

May 3, 16 10:08 pm  · 
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no_form

balkans you're about 22.7 degrees short of being perpendicular to reality.  you remind of that knight in monty python.  he's all chopped up and bloody but thinks he's going to win no matter what.  

May 3, 16 10:13 pm  · 
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awaiting_deletion

poop - skim balkins text, look for Kangaroos, funny thread

May 3, 16 10:43 pm  · 
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Bloopox

Rick it is possible from your own photos that you posted earlier in this thread to count the bricks in the pilasters.  There is one that shows you exactly how many bricks equal the height of the top of one of the chair backs, and then there's another where you can zoom in and count from the top of a chair back up to the bottom of a truss.  A few of the bricks are a little blurry, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and counting the fewest courses I can definitively identify without question.  By that method I come up with you being off by more than an entire 8" high CMU block, even by my very most conservative benefit-of-the-doubt count. That alone puts you well over 20 feet, and then when you add to that the math errors spontaneous mentions there's not question at all - this is not an exempt building. 

I don't know how you managed to be off by so much.  My best guess would be that you've got the height of the old garage door opening wrong, though it could be various other measurements, or a collection of them, that you got wrong.  

May 3, 16 11:06 pm  · 
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x-jla

LOL

"it's something with the angular accuracy of the CAD program screwing up"

Yeah sure.  Keep trying to fudge those numbers to keep the building that you didn't design under the 20' limit. 

May 3, 16 11:15 pm  · 
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Bloopox

Rick draw a 12" horizontal line, with a 5" vertical line at its end, and connect the dots with a diagonal line.  Now copy and extend that diagonal line as many times as required to make your roof and truss.  Voila - no tough 8th grade arithmetic required.

May 3, 16 11:22 pm  · 
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Bloopox,

Ha..ha..ha.......    *rolleyes*

May 3, 16 11:29 pm  · 
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Rick draw a 12" horizontal line, with a 5" vertical line at its end, and connect the dots with a diagonal line.  Now copy and extend that diagonal line as many times as required to make your roof and truss.  Voila - no tough 8th grade arithmetic required.

I already corrected that. Move on. Not worth arguing over.

May 3, 16 11:38 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

I remember Kangaroos, I had them as a kid; that zipper on the side of the shoe - Da' B0iMb!

May 3, 16 11:54 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

Can we pin this thread to the top? This is the funniest I've seen architects, since, since that time Gary Cooper dynomited that building, that book suppository building!

May 3, 16 11:58 pm  · 
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Alright, lets move on. We been fighting over this for how many days. Lets keep OBAE out of this for now. They have more better or more pressing things to go after.

There are some issues that concerns me that I will be talking to the B.O. to discuss all these issues. 

May 4, 16 12:29 am  · 
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x-jla

Hahahaha.  Like that guys who you reported for his letting his license lapse.  

May 4, 16 12:33 am  · 
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Maybe I'll take a drive up to Astoria this weekend and check out the local theater scene.

tduds, if you are in town, can we meet up? 

I hope to have a meet up on this with the B.O. by the end of the week over some matters.

May 4, 16 12:39 am  · 
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jla-x,

After all the grilling from all you guys? 

May 4, 16 12:50 am  · 
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no_form
Rick any architect worth their salt knows you have to factor in floor finishes. You should haves added at least 1/2" on. And also you should have added at least a 1/2" on top of that for listing of the cmu blocks. You also made the assumption that there were no irregularities in the blocks and that each course had machine accuracy for grout widths. Also, your MEPF should have verified ceiling heights during their site visit. I think you should go again to measure. But take it from each corner of the space and also from the center. You can also use 123d catch to 3D scan the ceiling and then analyze the truss angles more thoroughly on your commodore. Get to it.

#K4L
May 4, 16 1:48 am  · 
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jla-x,

Instead of causing heartache and unnecessary frustration for all parties, lets confirm the height before dealing with the issue. 

Lets not panic the public at large when the risks (while there) is extremely low. We already have the building department alerted and lets start with working through that. 

They shouldn't be so afraid that they are guarantee to die. 

May 4, 16 2:01 am  · 
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Rick any architect worth their salt knows you have to factor in floor finishes. You should haves added at least 1/2" on. And also you should have added at least a 1/2" on top of that for listing of the cmu blocks. You also made the assumption that there were no irregularities in the blocks and that each course had machine accuracy for grout widths. Also, your MEPF should have verified ceiling heights during their site visit. I think you should go again to measure. But take it from each corner of the space and also from the center. You can also use 123d catch to 3D scan the ceiling and then analyze the truss angles more thoroughly on your commodore. Get to it. 

Hold on there. The stage covers the SW and SE corners. From a calculation from the SE corner, it is still on mark. When we did measurements from the middle of the building. There is something you are not accounting. The first trusses on either in of the 40'-4" x 74'-10" CMU portion of the building is about 12' plus minus a few inches. from either end. The roof is basically a "Dutch Gable Roof" (as in this image below calls it):

Except there is no overhang... just enclosed in parapets. 

I could make measurements from 4 of the points along the center axis. As that would provide measurements to the ridge. However, even with laser, you don't want to be off at an angle as that will add inches to the readings. The finish floor IS the concrete slab. The finish floor covering such as Linoleum tile was maybe an ~1/8" (1/16" thick roughly and a thin layer of adhesive. The carpet was maybe 1/8th in thick and then there is the adhesive layer which maybe around a 1/16th inch thick. 

I agree, the MEPF should have verified height. I don't know why. They weren't directly in any contract to me so I had no direct contact with any of them so the client / general contractor mucked up the coordination between me and them. This could have solved some of the issues. 

If you think the word 'mucked' is too gentle and think a stronger word is appropriate, I would be in agreement with you there. 

The reason the MEPF was not contracted directly by me was that I was not being paid for the project and that would put excessive financial burden directly on me to pay them regardless of when the client compensates me (if they do). 

May 4, 16 2:47 am  · 
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archiwutm8

683 comments holy moly, where should I start reading this dissertation?

May 4, 16 4:44 am  · 
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archiwutm8,

Save yourself the trouble. Don't.

May 4, 16 4:55 am  · 
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SpontaneousCombustion

Rick the public certainly is not "guaranteed to die" - and yet at the same time if something does happen the results could very well be devastating.  It's quite easy to see how a fire can start (costumes in contact with dryer, caterers using warming equipment, stage lights too close to flammable materials) and quite easy to see how injury and death could result from cluttered egress routes (props stored in hallways, catering equipment in aisles, shelving built in egress paths).  It's not something to be taken lightly.

When you say "let's not bring OBAE into this" you seem to think it's a choice.  "You do realize" that anybody licensed in Oregon is bound by law to report this.

The building is more than 20 feet high - that is undeniable from photographic evidence, and it's backed up by a licensed structural engineer's stamped drawings.  We don't have a choice about reporting that.

May 4, 16 5:46 am  · 
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SpontaneousCombustion

As for measuring:  you're way overcomplicating this.  You don't need to make measurements from four points, and overhangs don't need to have anything to do with it.  You need somebody with basic competency with a tape measure or a laser measure to go stand in the center of the floor and measure (if you can't snake a tape 20'-0" and change you're no building design professional).  This is in excess of 20'-0" by at least a few inches - so the measurements don't need to be precise to the extent that the floor must be absolutely level or the point must be the exact center as determined by triangulation - we're not talking about being over or under 20'-0" by a millimeter.  Ideally the person doing the measuring should not be you, for three reasons: 1. you're not a disinterested bystander - you have a stake in the result. 2. you don't know how to operate a tape measure - we have another 20-page thread to document that.  3. you can't do math, particularly math involving empirical measurements.

May 4, 16 6:02 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

archiwut this is a legal document and an exhibit of what Stupid looks like. Ricki is not only stupid but also a criminal.

May 4, 16 7:04 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

^I think we have a decent script for a clever action film here.

May 4, 16 7:24 am  · 
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Sponty,

There is a choice. Unless you can verify for yourself on-site it would be premature.

May 4, 16 7:27 am  · 
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As for measuring:  you're way overcomplicating this.  You don't need to make measurements from four points, and overhangs don't need to have anything to do with it.  You need somebody with basic competency with a tape measure or a laser measure to go stand in the center of the floor and measure (if you can't snake a tape 20'-0" and change you're no building design professional).  This is in excess of 20'-0" by at least a few inches - so the measurements don't need to be precise to the extent that the floor must be absolutely level or the point must be the exact center as determined by triangulation - we're not talking about being over or under 20'-0" by a millimeter.  Ideally the person doing the measuring should not be you, for three reasons: 1. you're not a disinterested bystander - you have a stake in the result. 2. you don't know how to operate a tape measure - we have another 20-page thread to document that.  3. you can't do math, particularly math involving empirical measurements.

Get your ass there and measure. I'm not saying overhands have anything to do with it. Never have. 

May 4, 16 7:38 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

so con artist, not a very good one , ricki B gets his ass whooped by Kangaroos because he can't measure right. fight scene in theater. theater catches fire. ricki B does not get out alive, or we are not sure at end of film. they leave us hanging, there will be a sequel?

May 4, 16 7:39 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

Balkarino, so you woke up at 4:30am to keep the nonsense flowing?

May 4, 16 7:44 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

he can't sleep at night. fellin' guilty?

May 4, 16 7:48 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

Olaf, there is so much material we can inter-weave a dozen stories into a trilogy without breaking a sweat. I have a feeling Balkins would want to play himself naturally, but I would not be surprised he considers pulling a Eddie Murphy and plays every other character as well.

Scene one: The Balkanator armed with only a plastic protractor must fend of kangaroos in the dark and smoky theatre pausing only to address the audience (but without the sexiness of Kevin Spacey) to lecture on hydrostatique calculations or gas station queuing zoning regulations.

May 4, 16 7:59 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

do we get sub titles for Code sections? when balkins speaks

May 4, 16 8:05 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

Or... and try not to spit your coffee out., we scrap the solo Balkins trilogy until enough international fame builds up (probably 2-3 weeks once this thread gets picked up by the media), and focus on Balkinator translation of documentaries, online course videos, TED lectures, etc. 

We'll get a little buttom next to the volume on the videos that once clicked, a tiny video at the bottom of the screen plays and it's everyone's favorite expert-savant extraordinaire giving colourful commentary, expert clarifications, or well thought-out constructive criticism dubbed over the normal audio track.

I'd watch classic Cosmo with Balkins correcting Sagan or even a "How things are made" episode. The possibilities are as endless as Balkin's knowledge.

May 4, 16 8:17 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

balkins explains science?

May 4, 16 8:19 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

Why not?

It's comedy gold!

May 4, 16 8:34 am  · 
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Lets say the truss is 8'-8 1/4" from bottom edge to peak of truss top chord (top edge). 

The bricks are laid in a controlled manner with consistency in pattern to keep a 3-bricks to 8" nominal CMU height. Even the CMU is laid along that precision by a skilled mason.

So at 19'-6 13/16" for exact height. Even when measured with exact dimensions of nominal block thickness and the determined height of the truss.

The height would still be 16'-4 1/4" to top of truss. So even then, the height to interior finish would be 19'-6 7/8" at the pilaster base with 48 brick tall pilaster. There is still 5-1/8" wiggle room. Say 5". That's two WHOLE bricks height difference with one 3/8" mortar joint exposed. To hit 20' dead on, that would be 50 bricks tall pilaster.

May 4, 16 8:35 am  · 
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