I live in a place where most clients won't pay more than $20 for a building design project. If I request $4,000 (very low fee for designing a house), they would balk at paying. This is because there are a flood of people who does this work for free or just the cost of the prints to be made and a case of beer. That is how they value people designing their dream home because I am not the BUILDER, they don't value me for anything. They don't value architects either. If they did, I probably wouldn't have them coming to me. Usually, I get them on the last hour so to speak before their stupid fucking deadline for when they want to get their permits.
These are the most common prospective clients I would see. Those who had an architect and it didn't work out, don't want to pay me and would want me to design this for nothing as if I should be the one to suffer not getting paid because they had to pay the architect they terminated the contract with.
I get all the shitty clients because I am not the builder. The only ones they respect are the builders and the engineers. Architects/Building Designers (all the same to them) - they don't care.
Most of the prospective clients wants a ridiculously low amount that I can't conceivably imagine myself doing for that little. I have to turn them down because it isn't worth it to me.
I highly doubt a license will garner any more damn respect from the only people that fucking matters for a professional.... the ones that pay. Serving architects aren't my business but in some cases I rather do such a B2B arrangement than serving these cheap f--- clients. If they were more respectful in how much to pay, I'd be happy and energetic to serve them as their design professional.
Why are these prospective clients such cheap f---ers to expect me to go through weeks of my life to make a competent design and prepare a professional quality construction documents for permits?
All of that is exactly why you should stop doing what you're doing and get a job. Even a minimum wage job would be better than what you're making now. There's no future for you in "building design". You're not a good entrepreneur - you don't have the temperament, personality, or discipline for it. You're not getting anywhere, either in building design or in game development. You've already squandered away a third of your earning years and what do you have to show for it?
Balkins what should any potential client value you for? When they hire you what are they getting that they can't do themselves after a few online cad tutorials? It's got nothing to do with where you live - your situation would be the same wherever you go. The problem isn't your competition, it's that you haven't got any qualifications to design buildings. You've got no portfolio to show them, no built projects that demonstrate any special talent or skills, no resume of experience, no references, and an internet trail that would scare away anyone who knows how to google.
RickB- It doesn't sound like you are going to pursue a architecture license, but if you are planning on staying in the industry, why don't you get a contractor's license? It would put you at an advantage to the builders who have to hire design/drafting services and you could coordinate/ sub the project out to other builders/ trades so you wouldn't have to swing a hammer.
I do think your pissing and moaning about the architectural profession falls on deaf ears here because most of us understand and work on projects substantial enough to be required by owners, the banks lending owners money for construction, the insurance companies insuring the work/ bank's money, and the jurisdictions permitting the work to have a point of responsibility and liability that a licensed architect, and their e&o policy provides.
Also keep in mind the AHJ has a dual interest in the project, ensuring life safety and specifying the quality of construction/ improvement that will be added to the local tax base. Even after construction, the banks and insurance companies will have an interest in the project for the duration of the mortgage and physical property, respectively. Why do you hate America?
Rick b. This is the same old nonsense you always say. Why are you still here? You are still spreading misinformation. You are still repeating and bringing up your personal life. Now I've had to crawl out of my cave to deliver this message to you.
Regarding building code. Apply your creativity as a design thinker to the parameters established by adjudicating authorities.
Are ethics subjective? Do an extra 6 inches really save lives? (Heh heh) Why bother with buzzers on doors?
We could have a CCTV wired to a smart phone and just receive alerts when someone puts a toe in the water. If they stay submerged for more than 30 seconds an ambulance can be dispatched.
Feb 29, 16 11:26 pm ·
·
.
Mar 1, 16 12:33 am ·
·
arch76,
RickB- It doesn't sound like you are going to pursue a architecture license, but if you are planning on staying in the industry, why don't you get a contractor's license? It would put you at an advantage to the builders who have to hire design/drafting services and you could coordinate/ sub the project out to other builders/ trades so you wouldn't have to swing a hammer.
I do think your pissing and moaning about the architectural profession falls on deaf ears here because most of us understand and work on projects substantial enough to be required by owners, the banks lending owners money for construction, the insurance companies insuring the work/ bank's money, and the jurisdictions permitting the work to have a point of responsibility and liability that a licensed architect, and their e&o policy provides.
Also keep in mind the AHJ has a dual interest in the project, ensuring life safety and specifying the quality of construction/ improvement that will be added to the local tax base. Even after construction, the banks and insurance companies will have an interest in the project for the duration of the mortgage and physical property, respectively. Why do you hate America?
Alright. You know it sounds like a good point you have. It isn't much of an effort aside from a little boost financially at the least. The license to get a contractor license isn't much and also getting NCBDC certified which isn't a great deal of expense but can be useful in marketing the value of certification and do something positive for the certification and be building design profession including architecture. It is ONE tangible way to stand out but no amount of certification OR licensure replaces the importance of competence and good work.
The certification may help me there but it doesn't get me there on its own.
The contractor license will help me get in a position and I can more or less operate kind of like a CM/PM. I may or may not do all the physical trades but it does put the responsibility of coordinating and bringing the trades together.
I can in some ways also get around architectural registration of the business and not have to necessarily have an architect as a business partner but then the architect would be my consultant as an engineer would. There is an opportunity there.
Being NCBDC certified would help in getting liability and E&O coverage for design side. While, it is possible to do so without it, it would open up more possibility there. The contractor license brings coverage for construction services and options that coupled together is perhaps good enough for that end of things.
However, I will have to do something about having something to present clients which means I may simply have to sort of dabble to stock house plans sector a little bit to develop work that can be used to give prospective clients an idea of what I am capable of doing. Give them more to excite them.
There are kids in 3rd world countries that manage to make something of their lives. You live in Oregon not Guatemala. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little pansy.
RickB- if you learn nothing else today, learn that now is the time to follow your dreams. Even if you don't go through with a contractor's license, start working with the trades. Go on craigslist, find a mechanical contractor looking for drafting help, or a truss company, or a builder or something similar. You will find that once you are in the loop, and prove yourself, you may be referred projects.
Marketing is expensive and/or time consuming. Make what you do your calling card.
Mar 1, 16 1:13 am ·
·
jla-x,
I don't think I was whining in the previous response from me. It is more commentary.
arch76,
It's just a process and I just have to find a way to get from here to there.
Balkins, get a job then. I mean, crap, the last ten years of your life has revolved around circumnavigating the cheapest and easiest route to work in architecture. Well, that didn't work out, so I am sorry. You make about two good points in the last twenty posts. In no less than 10,000 words. Here is a condensed version.
1. It CAN be very expensive to get a degree in architecture. But it doesn't have to be.
2. Intern salaries will never pay off massive student loans for 8 years worth of a masters degree. So to all I say, do your homework first. 4+2, 5 and 5+1 degrees. Check tuition first.
Outside of that, you just complain about every obstacle in your path. You take it personal and instead of accepting it, you fight it tooth and nail. You tell people you have 300 credit hours of college credit. Well, its time to tell the college that you are ready for a degree. There must be something you can apply all that credit too and get one. Or you have taken every 100 level course out there in which case you have ten more years of college in front of you.
the 96" corridor width required in abortion clinics in Texas, Alabama, etc.
Mar 1, 16 10:28 am ·
·
On the Fence,
1. It CAN be very expensive to get a degree in architecture. But it doesn't have to be.
A degree in Architecture ALWAYS is expensive when you are paying tuition.
Universities are already excessively expensive. That has been the issue for a long time when the cost of attendance goes up at a rate doubling that of the rate of inflation and the rate in which minimum wage increases.
I'm not sure how it doesn't have to be expensive? Can we cut the tuition and cost of attendance in half?
^ Subsidizing tuition won't help the students; it will only throw more money at the colleges who will then be able to jack up tuition even more.
If the student loan program had been less generous, the whole loan/tuition/fancy facilities arms race wouldn't have happened. It's too easy for a twenty year old to just borrow the money and kid themselves into thinking they will get a great job and will be able to afford it. They don't have the judgement to weigh the true cost/benefits of various options until it's too late and they're in too deep.
" Can we cut the tuition and cost of attendance in half?"
Another half measure, shortcut, bright idea to help get you through?
Sure, for you, why not.
Let them know I gave you half off. Ok?
Mar 1, 16 3:59 pm ·
·
geezertect,
If we stop paying million dollar salaries and outrageous amount of money towards the retirement funds of administration, staff and professors.... most of which never received by the professors and other staff lower on the totem pole.... a bit of the cost will actually be less and actually able to be covered by the grants alone including the housing in a dorm that costs as much as an apartment and still only 1/4 of the space which has to be shared by 2 other students.
If the mis-spending actually stops, it would be a lot more affordable.
Sir, El-Balkaraniore, start by looking north of your border, then move on over across the Atlantic. Plenty of examples were tuition is either free or reasonably affordable. Graduates don't leave school with a Master's which costs the same as a single-family house.
Mar 1, 16 4:11 pm ·
·
N.S.,
I wish it was that simple as it is said but it is an option.
I will probably have to finish my bachelor's degree completely so as to be in a better position with regards to Master's degree. A little Snafu but it is solvable with money ! Not a complaint just a comment and a reality check that reminds myself what I need to do on that.
if you would have spent the last 10 years or so as a plumber or electrician or other tradesman, you would have money. surely at some point you'll realize you have to start looking for a solution to your problem, instead of creating more problems?
However, I will have to do something about having something to present clients which means I may simply have to sort of dabble to stock house plans sector a little bit to develop work that can be used to give prospective clients an idea of what I am capable of doing. Give them more to excite them.
Rick you've been saying this for years now. So when are you going to start "dabbling" in these stock plans?
Every time someone says you have no portfolio you say you're going to work on stock plans. Then when someone points out that you've been saying that for years you loop back into why you're not interested in being a building designer anymore and how you're going to focus on game development and launch a crowd funding campaign. Then when someone asks how that's going you say you can't focus on that right now because you're busy with building design... and around and around in circles we go.
Mar 1, 16 11:15 pm ·
·
Stock HOUSE PLANS not stock plans. Very different statements if you turn brain on to think about what you are saying.
We may catch the intended meaning but they are different statements.
Mar 1, 16 11:55 pm ·
·
^--------------------------- Post by bestdocumentproducers is spam
Mar 2, 16 12:28 am ·
·
Admins, you may delete the above post referring to the spammer and this post as it is irrelevant completely with the thread.
"Stock plans": pre-drawn building plans that can be ordered from a catalog, magazine, or website. Also known as: pattern book plans, stock building plans, catalog plans, mail order plans, off the shelf plans.
Whatever you want to call them: where are they?
It's not us you need to answer to. Turn off the internet and take stock of yourself. Ask yourself honestly: are you living your life in a way that you won't regret?
It did pick up slightly on page 3... but then I decided to entertain Ricky's rant, and the embers sparked back up. I wonder how many comments are lost to admin nuking.
it’s been roughly five more years since this thread was active and I am now wondering if Rick-b has his degree in Architecture or just 300 more college credits under his belt.
Retarded Codes
Sponty,
I live in a place where most clients won't pay more than $20 for a building design project. If I request $4,000 (very low fee for designing a house), they would balk at paying. This is because there are a flood of people who does this work for free or just the cost of the prints to be made and a case of beer. That is how they value people designing their dream home because I am not the BUILDER, they don't value me for anything. They don't value architects either. If they did, I probably wouldn't have them coming to me. Usually, I get them on the last hour so to speak before their stupid fucking deadline for when they want to get their permits.
These are the most common prospective clients I would see. Those who had an architect and it didn't work out, don't want to pay me and would want me to design this for nothing as if I should be the one to suffer not getting paid because they had to pay the architect they terminated the contract with.
I get all the shitty clients because I am not the builder. The only ones they respect are the builders and the engineers. Architects/Building Designers (all the same to them) - they don't care.
Most of the prospective clients wants a ridiculously low amount that I can't conceivably imagine myself doing for that little. I have to turn them down because it isn't worth it to me.
I highly doubt a license will garner any more damn respect from the only people that fucking matters for a professional.... the ones that pay. Serving architects aren't my business but in some cases I rather do such a B2B arrangement than serving these cheap f--- clients. If they were more respectful in how much to pay, I'd be happy and energetic to serve them as their design professional.
Why are these prospective clients such cheap f---ers to expect me to go through weeks of my life to make a competent design and prepare a professional quality construction documents for permits?
All of that is exactly why you should stop doing what you're doing and get a job. Even a minimum wage job would be better than what you're making now. There's no future for you in "building design". You're not a good entrepreneur - you don't have the temperament, personality, or discipline for it. You're not getting anywhere, either in building design or in game development. You've already squandered away a third of your earning years and what do you have to show for it?
Balkins what should any potential client value you for? When they hire you what are they getting that they can't do themselves after a few online cad tutorials? It's got nothing to do with where you live - your situation would be the same wherever you go. The problem isn't your competition, it's that you haven't got any qualifications to design buildings. You've got no portfolio to show them, no built projects that demonstrate any special talent or skills, no resume of experience, no references, and an internet trail that would scare away anyone who knows how to google.
RickB- It doesn't sound like you are going to pursue a architecture license, but if you are planning on staying in the industry, why don't you get a contractor's license? It would put you at an advantage to the builders who have to hire design/drafting services and you could coordinate/ sub the project out to other builders/ trades so you wouldn't have to swing a hammer.
I do think your pissing and moaning about the architectural profession falls on deaf ears here because most of us understand and work on projects substantial enough to be required by owners, the banks lending owners money for construction, the insurance companies insuring the work/ bank's money, and the jurisdictions permitting the work to have a point of responsibility and liability that a licensed architect, and their e&o policy provides.
Also keep in mind the AHJ has a dual interest in the project, ensuring life safety and specifying the quality of construction/ improvement that will be added to the local tax base. Even after construction, the banks and insurance companies will have an interest in the project for the duration of the mortgage and physical property, respectively. Why do you hate America?
(trumpet noise announcement) "get a job."
Are ethics subjective? Do an extra 6 inches really save lives? (Heh heh) Why bother with buzzers on doors?
We could have a CCTV wired to a smart phone and just receive alerts when someone puts a toe in the water. If they stay submerged for more than 30 seconds an ambulance can be dispatched.
.
arch76,
RickB- It doesn't sound like you are going to pursue a architecture license, but if you are planning on staying in the industry, why don't you get a contractor's license? It would put you at an advantage to the builders who have to hire design/drafting services and you could coordinate/ sub the project out to other builders/ trades so you wouldn't have to swing a hammer.
I do think your pissing and moaning about the architectural profession falls on deaf ears here because most of us understand and work on projects substantial enough to be required by owners, the banks lending owners money for construction, the insurance companies insuring the work/ bank's money, and the jurisdictions permitting the work to have a point of responsibility and liability that a licensed architect, and their e&o policy provides.
Also keep in mind the AHJ has a dual interest in the project, ensuring life safety and specifying the quality of construction/ improvement that will be added to the local tax base. Even after construction, the banks and insurance companies will have an interest in the project for the duration of the mortgage and physical property, respectively. Why do you hate America?
Alright. You know it sounds like a good point you have. It isn't much of an effort aside from a little boost financially at the least. The license to get a contractor license isn't much and also getting NCBDC certified which isn't a great deal of expense but can be useful in marketing the value of certification and do something positive for the certification and be building design profession including architecture. It is ONE tangible way to stand out but no amount of certification OR licensure replaces the importance of competence and good work.
The certification may help me there but it doesn't get me there on its own.
The contractor license will help me get in a position and I can more or less operate kind of like a CM/PM. I may or may not do all the physical trades but it does put the responsibility of coordinating and bringing the trades together.
I can in some ways also get around architectural registration of the business and not have to necessarily have an architect as a business partner but then the architect would be my consultant as an engineer would. There is an opportunity there.
Being NCBDC certified would help in getting liability and E&O coverage for design side. While, it is possible to do so without it, it would open up more possibility there. The contractor license brings coverage for construction services and options that coupled together is perhaps good enough for that end of things.
However, I will have to do something about having something to present clients which means I may simply have to sort of dabble to stock house plans sector a little bit to develop work that can be used to give prospective clients an idea of what I am capable of doing. Give them more to excite them.
There are kids in 3rd world countries that manage to make something of their lives. You live in Oregon not Guatemala. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little pansy.
RickB- if you learn nothing else today, learn that now is the time to follow your dreams. Even if you don't go through with a contractor's license, start working with the trades. Go on craigslist, find a mechanical contractor looking for drafting help, or a truss company, or a builder or something similar. You will find that once you are in the loop, and prove yourself, you may be referred projects.
Marketing is expensive and/or time consuming. Make what you do your calling card.
jla-x,
I don't think I was whining in the previous response from me. It is more commentary.
arch76,
It's just a process and I just have to find a way to get from here to there.
Holy Jeezaloo.
Balkins, get a job then. I mean, crap, the last ten years of your life has revolved around circumnavigating the cheapest and easiest route to work in architecture. Well, that didn't work out, so I am sorry. You make about two good points in the last twenty posts. In no less than 10,000 words. Here is a condensed version.
1. It CAN be very expensive to get a degree in architecture. But it doesn't have to be.
2. Intern salaries will never pay off massive student loans for 8 years worth of a masters degree. So to all I say, do your homework first. 4+2, 5 and 5+1 degrees. Check tuition first.
Outside of that, you just complain about every obstacle in your path. You take it personal and instead of accepting it, you fight it tooth and nail. You tell people you have 300 credit hours of college credit. Well, its time to tell the college that you are ready for a degree. There must be something you can apply all that credit too and get one. Or you have taken every 100 level course out there in which case you have ten more years of college in front of you.
the 96" corridor width required in abortion clinics in Texas, Alabama, etc.
On the Fence,
1. It CAN be very expensive to get a degree in architecture. But it doesn't have to be.
A degree in Architecture ALWAYS is expensive when you are paying tuition.
Universities are already excessively expensive. That has been the issue for a long time when the cost of attendance goes up at a rate doubling that of the rate of inflation and the rate in which minimum wage increases.
I'm not sure how it doesn't have to be expensive? Can we cut the tuition and cost of attendance in half?
Subsidize tuition... like almost every other developed countries?
That's evil communist talk there Balkins.
^ Subsidizing tuition won't help the students; it will only throw more money at the colleges who will then be able to jack up tuition even more.
If the student loan program had been less generous, the whole loan/tuition/fancy facilities arms race wouldn't have happened. It's too easy for a twenty year old to just borrow the money and kid themselves into thinking they will get a great job and will be able to afford it. They don't have the judgement to weigh the true cost/benefits of various options until it's too late and they're in too deep.
Then cap and control tuition costs, subsidize up to a point where tuition is $5k to $10K a year depending on the institution.
Everywhere else does it, why are americans so special?
RickB-OR,
" Can we cut the tuition and cost of attendance in half?"
Another half measure, shortcut, bright idea to help get you through?
Sure, for you, why not.
Let them know I gave you half off. Ok?
geezertect,
If we stop paying million dollar salaries and outrageous amount of money towards the retirement funds of administration, staff and professors.... most of which never received by the professors and other staff lower on the totem pole.... a bit of the cost will actually be less and actually able to be covered by the grants alone including the housing in a dorm that costs as much as an apartment and still only 1/4 of the space which has to be shared by 2 other students.
If the mis-spending actually stops, it would be a lot more affordable.
Non Sequitur,
What subsidized tuition?
Sir, El-Balkaraniore, start by looking north of your border, then move on over across the Atlantic. Plenty of examples were tuition is either free or reasonably affordable. Graduates don't leave school with a Master's which costs the same as a single-family house.
N.S.,
I wish it was that simple as it is said but it is an option.
I will probably have to finish my bachelor's degree completely so as to be in a better position with regards to Master's degree. A little Snafu but it is solvable with money ! Not a complaint just a comment and a reality check that reminds myself what I need to do on that.
if you would have spent the last 10 years or so as a plumber or electrician or other tradesman, you would have money. surely at some point you'll realize you have to start looking for a solution to your problem, instead of creating more problems?
However, I will have to do something about having something to present clients which means I may simply have to sort of dabble to stock house plans sector a little bit to develop work that can be used to give prospective clients an idea of what I am capable of doing. Give them more to excite them.
Rick you've been saying this for years now. So when are you going to start "dabbling" in these stock plans?
Every time someone says you have no portfolio you say you're going to work on stock plans. Then when someone points out that you've been saying that for years you loop back into why you're not interested in being a building designer anymore and how you're going to focus on game development and launch a crowd funding campaign. Then when someone asks how that's going you say you can't focus on that right now because you're busy with building design... and around and around in circles we go.
Stock HOUSE PLANS not stock plans. Very different statements if you turn brain on to think about what you are saying.
We may catch the intended meaning but they are different statements.
^--------------------------- Post by bestdocumentproducers is spam
Admins, you may delete the above post referring to the spammer and this post as it is irrelevant completely with the thread.
"Stock plans": pre-drawn building plans that can be ordered from a catalog, magazine, or website. Also known as: pattern book plans, stock building plans, catalog plans, mail order plans, off the shelf plans.
Whatever you want to call them: where are they?
It's not us you need to answer to. Turn off the internet and take stock of yourself. Ask yourself honestly: are you living your life in a way that you won't regret?
Phew. What a garbage thread. I'm not proud at the moment.
It did pick up slightly on page 3... but then I decided to entertain Ricky's rant, and the embers sparked back up. I wonder how many comments are lost to admin nuking.
it’s been roughly five more years since this thread was active and I am now wondering if Rick-b has his degree in Architecture or just 300 more college credits under his belt.
anybody?
option C: neither.
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