"Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshitbullshit! I've been saying for years that once you get the damn license you are then free to do whatever the hell you want with that knowledge and experience. Architecture is so much more than making pretty buildings while scoffing at anyone who disagrees with you because they simply don't understand your craft."
Thanks Donna. You know architecture is not just a straight line path to a license and then starchitecture. There is so much out there to do in the field of architecture, especially if you have a license. Slamming others for their path is really not something I want to get into myself. I do have my license and I do some small side work projects, nothing that will get me any awards. Yes I am not designing million dollar projects, but I am just fine with where I am at.
"If one wanted to do these things like being a plan reviewer or building official or any of these other occupations that doesn't require an architect license then why get the architect license. You don't need to be a licensed architect to be a plan reviewer. "
Yes, it is true that a lot of plans examiners are not licensed architects. In my area though more than 50% of them are. That is really a guesstimate based on our monthly code enforcers meetings that I attend and talking to other plans examiners.
But, if you have a copy of the 2006 IBC and look at Appendix A, if adopted by your state or municipality it reads.
A101.3 Inspector and plans examiner. The building official shall appoint or hire such number of officers, inspectors, assistants and other employees as shall be authorized by the jurisdiction. A person shall not be appointed or hired as inspector of construction or plans examiner who has not had at least 5 years experience as a contractor, engineer, architect........so on and so forth.
So there are many avenues open to the position and licensed architect appears to be one of them.
Again, where I work, they wanted a licensed architect.
You have been on forums that I am a member of for at least ten years now complaining about architects and pretending to try getting your degree in order to obtain a license. All the while you bash architects and push unlicensed designer nonsense. You ramble on about nonsensical things and your name on the interweb is dragged through the mud, by your own postings no less, to the point that a license will do you no good. You are no closer to getting a license today then you were ten years ago and as far as I can tell it will take ten more years for you to actually get through school.
OTF since you are a build dept. person and we are so far into the thread.........i know every township etc... is different but I would like to know, assuming you may do this, how do you decide when to issue memorandums and bulletins that either clarify or modify the acting building code? i feel like more often then not, a few of my projects may accidentally beg the question or may quite literally represent the code in a manner the examiner may not be prepared for, it goes to the higher ups and strange decisions eventually, and i mean eventually, reinforce the decision. How do you adjust for this, the architects creatively and accurately interpret the code contrary to what amounts to your offices opinion?
EKE - 42" rails!? 36" I get. Ever been to the Guggenheim? The spiral rail is only 30" and it's wider at the ramp side, very uncomfortable feeling.
Here in Paradise the powers that be decided to 'protect scenic vistas' by lowering the maximum allowed height from 36' to 32'. The end result? 32' high flat roofed or gambrels with multiple gambrel dormers. There were no gambrels here at all before this restriction changed.
We also have laws limiting square footage. 15k for a superstore, 20k for a house.
Yes, Otf, we're similar - I have a Facilities job now but also do side freelance jobs for fun. It's allowed by my employer, and as of yet I've never had to stamp any of my side jobs. But I'm blatantly proud of the fact that I'm a registered architect. It was a huge personal goal of mine and I crossed that finish line. Yay for me and ya for everyone who has also become registered, no matter what they do with it. Just Wednesday night I was at a bar and a guy came in and his friend announced that the guy had just gotten his Pass notice on his last exam and we all cheered and hooted and raised our glasses to him. It's wonderful!
Miles, 1070mm (42") guards are standard here on any platform with a 1220mm (4') or higher drop. We've had to argue, and loose, on business building entrance staircases where the city claimed that a 914mm (36") standard railing was too easy to climb and that someone could fall to their deaths unless we boosted it to 1070.
I'd like to see any jurisdiction that would allow a railing like the one of the Guggenheim today.
Too easy to climb - by who? Rails are supposed to prevent you from accidently falling, not intentionally falling.
If we're talking 4-yr olds we're back to parental supervision. Maybe potential parents should be trained, tested and licensed before being allowed to reproduce. Then we could get rid of codes intended to protect from stupidity but actually foster it.
Sneaky Pete, a 1070mm guard is required an any edge/platform with a height of 600mm or more and at all stair landings. The 1220 example I refereed was based on a previous project where the inspector was adamant about people falling to their deaths.
I am reciting this from memory, so I might be a little off on my OBC numbers.
geezer, i think if they wanted to prevent stock brokers from jumping the their deaths from a height of 30" to 48", they probably would have made the guard rail regulation 48" instead of 42".
well my buddy whose second language is English who doesnt realize the difference btw building code and the zoning ordinance gets paid better than anyone with same experience and is a city benefit bu tbinking is hard (they are coached that way).....
knock knock what does that have to do with anything? if one can not master the language of the code how can one be an examiner? if you want to make money in this business and do not want to be reallt challnged, become an examiner.......we are discussing code here......leave your baggage at the door.
§[C26-503.4] 27-334 Protective guards. - Buildings that are more than twenty-two feet in height and have roofs that are flatter than twenty degrees to the horizontal shall be provided with a parapet not less than three feet six inches high, or be provided with a three foot six inch high railing or fence, or a combination of a parapet and railing or fence which together are not less than three feet six inches high. Railings or fences may be located inward from the face of the exterior wall a distance not exceeding six feet, and shall be of a type that will prevent children from crawling through or over them.
That's right, children proof, a tried and true method for determining the value of a code statement.
Your sentences are full of signifiers and they lead me to think you posses racist reactions like the GOP contenders. It's not my baggage but yours.
No offense, maybe you are thinking like this subconsciously and actually a nice guy in real world. I am not even an advocate of political correctness. I am just pointing out to some readings into your bitter sounding words connecting your mock "buddy" to ESL, spoken by immigrants, connecting them to dumbness and bitterly lamenting their pay. As a triple registered architect you could talk to examiner's higher ups and try to resolve the insulation confusion. You could point to error and bring it up to the director's attention. These should be part of our efforts as professional architects and partake in this process whenever we can. You could write a short letter to officials (but watch your spelling and English and don't text message them while intoxicated).
Instead, you lament and prefer to connect immigration, dumbness and undeserved earnings that are higher than natural born citizens of your own kind, just like the GOP does.
Sorry, that's how it reads buddy. Have a good night. Forgive me if I am a wrong or dumb examiner of your words. I also speak ESL and argued with the building department Jacks and Jills and Ahmeds and Fernandos and Mings before and also helped them rethink a thing or two.
well my buddy whose second language is English who doesnt realize the difference btw building code and the zoning ordinance gets paid better than anyone with same experience and is a city benefit bu tbinking is hard (they are coached that way).....so a good reason to become a plan examinern, be dumb and paid well. there are a few smart ones but most prefer language "cause its to code" over legalise..........
JeromeS, that's why they came out with 2008, then 2014 code, I haven't found a similar statement yet, looking for.
but these CHILDREN must be Vetted!
knock knock....meh, well...yadayada.... you probably don't do well at reading code, it's kind of obvious, but you won't understand that.
Feb 26, 16 10:45 pm ·
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On the fence:
I have as much college earned course credits as most architects. I have over 300 credits of earned college education. I had already spent over 10 years of my life in college.
If I bothered to go back to UO or any other college for an architecture degree, it is just going to compile a debt that will never get paid off with the shit pay that one gets at an architecture program. Hell, by 2022, intern pay in Portland, Oregon would be only 20 cents above minimum wage. It isn't like they'll raise the pay of employees to adjust. They hadn't been doing so during all the other minimum wage bumps. This is typical when job positions are over the minimum wage so employers tend not to bump it up. Eventually, the pay becomes minimum wage. This is one of the concerns I had with the minimum wage increase in Oregon.
There's this little thing regarding Appendix A:
(Not adopted by the State of Oregon, but may be adopted by local municipalities)
This means that certifications are derived by rule and policy of the State Building Code division and the municipalities ultimately determine qualifications standards.
They are more concern with 5 years of experience relevant but not necessarily strictly adhered to. The building official in charge at the jurisdiction ultimately decides. Even a competent building designer with the plan reviewer certification can pursue such roles as pertinent.
Here's the thing, if I work for the city or county, I would likely not be allowed to operate as a building designer or any business in the private sector sense.
I do consider and ponder it but I am not yet there. Undergoing such ICC certification is an option and not a really difficult thing. However, I would be in a difficult position to continue any private business operation. Aside from the time availability to be able to properly run such a business, especially a business like architecture or building design..... but there is also the concerns of COI issues with regards to public employees operating a private business.
SORRY BUT THIS ABOVE IS KIND OF OFF-TOPIC AND OFF ON A TANGENT SO LETS MOVE ALONG.
I like that the rim of the grand canyon and some european castle ruins have beautiful spaces and constructions where a plunge to your splattering is unencumbered by guardrails of any sort
no final word for you! (sorry, I spent my morning in Flushing,Queens)
the Koreans don't talk to the Chinese - old school.
Feb 27, 16 12:46 am ·
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Um, that fellow is Okinawan if I remember correctly.
Feb 27, 16 1:00 am ·
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I like that the rim of the grand canyon and some european castle ruins have beautiful spaces and constructions where a plunge to your splattering is unencumbered by guardrails of any sort
The City of Seattle Zoning Code has a section of rules about potbellied pigs. Does that count as retarded?
Feb 29, 16 1:53 pm ·
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On the Fence,
I've long time ago given up on pursuing architectural license because the architecture profession is a dying if not dead profession. No body wants an architect. They will side step an architect by hiring a contractor and an engineer. People value an engineer over an architect.
By 2023 (if not somehow before hand), minimum wage in Portland, Oregon. This pay rate of entry level IDP positions is going to be minimum wage. In a couple more years, the rest of the state will reach that point and guess what.... what the f--- is the point of getting in debt for $100K to $200K and have less to live on than a person flipping burgers at a fast food place.
I see the cost of food and everything else going up about 150% in that time frame.
Why in the world would I get in debt so much just to get paid the same amount.
FUCK THAT.
I would be better off not getting licensed as an architect because that is a license of a profession most with the money does NOT respect or value. They don't value architects because architects are seen as expensive and causes the upfront cost of projects to balloon than what they can afford. Architects have champaign taste but doesn't understand how to design for a client on a 'beer' budget. They are dreamers of grandeur while the client wants the feel of grandeur but they don't have the budget for the most authentic and expensive form of it. They don't want Taj Mahal but they want an improvement that is noticeable but at the same time they don't want to draw too much attention. They want something that is better and something they feel excited to have their friends over but they don't want everyone around the country coming over photographing their home and degrading their atmosphere of privacy.
As for getting licensed, I don't want it. It isn't going to happen. I don't care to. I don't want to be spending my hard earned money on an agency of the state that I personally think is a worthless piece of crap.
I don't believe in this architectural licensing. I don't believe in occupational licensing. I personally believe it is just an attempt towards creating an cartel which is illegal and violates the antitrust laws. As these licensing programs are for one thing and one thing only, to control how many people are licensed. The same people running the boards are also part of the same consorted group that runs the architecture schools and runs NAAB and NCARB. It is one consorted collusion. The people who run these programs are primarily interested in limiting how many and who can be licensed.
Face it Balkins, you only take that stance because you've failed at getting licensed the normal way. It's easier to claim there is an evil boogie man out to get you than it is to make the effort.
Need we not remind you how ignorant your are? Seems to be a trend today.
gwharton, your potbellied pig comment reminds me: did you know the ADA allows for the use of a Support Shetland Pony? Yes, really. I could have a Shetland Pony come to work to help me, and my workplace would have to accommodate it.
It also reminds me of the brush-fire-preventative goat herds in California.
I'm proudly as bleeding-heart as they come but some things about our human society truly are ridiculous.
Feb 29, 16 4:32 pm ·
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Non Sequitur,
Intern pay sucks. Anyone who spends 5 years of college should be earning income of $75,000 a year and pay increase $10,000 a year for every year of experience + percentile adjustment for inflation (3% or whatever it is).
Apparently, architects don't make that kind of money.
Any person with 4 year of education should be making $60,000 a year and a person with 2 year degree making at least 45,000 a year. 1 year certificate making 35,000 and no degree or education making minimum wage.
Ricky, I know quite a bit more when it comes to entry salary because, well, I'm actually gainfully employed in the field... which I need not remind you that you are not.
Wages are not as terrible as you paint them to be and there will always be bottom of the barrel people who will work or employ people for 40hrs/week for $10/hour.
However, local market forces, project size and type make your general compensation statements as worthless as your excuses for failure to chase licencing. Decently well-rounded architects with moderate experience make right about what you're listing. You just need to actually talk to real people, not rely on the few disgruntled interns.
Donna, I've heard about the seeing-eye type help piggies. Just adorable.
Feb 29, 16 5:00 pm ·
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I see the salary from job posting. That's the salary.
Actually, NS.... in 2017, $10/hr will be below minimum wage in Oregon.
All the interns here are disgruntle. How can all the interns that comes here is disgruntle. Not just hear but every other architecture forum.
I never hear interns being chippery and happy about the job and the pay.
You would expect a lot more interns be chippery and talking about how great the profession is but why is that never heard here or anywhere?
Remember, you say a well rounded architect makes those money but it takes a decade of a person's life to be licensed and then to get that well rounded in an office so to speak as you would be implying would then be another 10 years. NEARLY HALF THE PERSON'S working career being an average of ~45 years which starts when a person begins their college education or career field work (if they choose an experience based path or start with a job).
Assuming 18 years of age to 63 years of age.
By that time, a person in the video game industry can easily be making $150K to $250K. A well experienced game designer would easily command a salary on the order of $150K a year base salary plus benefits & bonuses plus royalties from the games that can often brings in millions of dollars a year of royalty payments to the game designer.
Think about that for a moment. Living income being on the order of $1-5 Million a year. Some more.
and many hockey players make 5million per year or more. Your comparison of two different fields does not apply.
I make my earlier point based on first hand knowledge I have and that which I receive from my other, gainfully employed colleagues. You need better sources.
Rick have you ever looked at a chart of average career earnings? Usually in the first third of one's career in a professional field the salary curve moves fairly steeply upward after the first couple years. On average one will reach double their original salary somewhere around the 8th to 12th year. After that the curve still rises until about the mid-point of one's career - but more slowly. After the mid point it may rise or fall a bit, but generally plateaus at the top for awhile - and then in the final third of one's career the salary tends to drop, slowly, though not usually to less than about 80% of the highest salary.
For most people in professional fields each career third lasts about 12 to 15 years. The interesting thing though is that for people who start their careers late, or get into a field late, their chart is different in that it's the middle third that is missing. They don't reach the highest peak of those with a longer career in the field, and they don't have the plateau near the high-earning point for several years.
So by avoiding working for so many years, and living in poverty while playing on the internet day in and day out, rather than tolerate those first few low-paying years, you've cheated yourself out of the high-paying years. I don't know any architecture firm employees anywhere making minimum wage - but even if you did make minimum wage for a year or two working full time in a firm, that would be more than you've made in any year yet - and it would be a step up the curve. The longer you do nothing, the more of the middle of the curve you cut out, and the lower the possible high point becomes.
I'm happy with my pay and my job. I love architecture.
Sincerely,
Everyday Intern
Feb 29, 16 7:33 pm ·
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if they're forced to work 168 hours a week, they aren't going to have much time left over to read your long posts, are they?
Curtkram,
None of them will be employees for long, either. They would all quit. It's not that they would have much time left over.... they would have NO time left over.
Most of them getting decent living salary has to work like 80-100 hours a week to get it but when you divide there pay by the hours, it isn't that good.
They'd be better off in just about every other career out there from a financial point of view.
Retarded Codes
archanonymous,
Great, another thread that devolves into this...
I shouldn't expect anything else from the internet, but it surprises me often enough that I keep coming back for more.
LOL!
You're right !
Donna,
"Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit! I've been saying for years that once you get the damn license you are then free to do whatever the hell you want with that knowledge and experience. Architecture is so much more than making pretty buildings while scoffing at anyone who disagrees with you because they simply don't understand your craft."
Thanks Donna. You know architecture is not just a straight line path to a license and then starchitecture. There is so much out there to do in the field of architecture, especially if you have a license. Slamming others for their path is really not something I want to get into myself. I do have my license and I do some small side work projects, nothing that will get me any awards. Yes I am not designing million dollar projects, but I am just fine with where I am at.
RickB-OR,
"If one wanted to do these things like being a plan reviewer or building official or any of these other occupations that doesn't require an architect license then why get the architect license. You don't need to be a licensed architect to be a plan reviewer. "
Yes, it is true that a lot of plans examiners are not licensed architects. In my area though more than 50% of them are. That is really a guesstimate based on our monthly code enforcers meetings that I attend and talking to other plans examiners.
But, if you have a copy of the 2006 IBC and look at Appendix A, if adopted by your state or municipality it reads.
A101.3 Inspector and plans examiner. The building official shall appoint or hire such number of officers, inspectors, assistants and other employees as shall be authorized by the jurisdiction. A person shall not be appointed or hired as inspector of construction or plans examiner who has not had at least 5 years experience as a contractor, engineer, architect........so on and so forth.
So there are many avenues open to the position and licensed architect appears to be one of them.
Again, where I work, they wanted a licensed architect.
RickB-OR
"SHOW ME! Aside from wiping your ass with it. "
You have been on forums that I am a member of for at least ten years now complaining about architects and pretending to try getting your degree in order to obtain a license. All the while you bash architects and push unlicensed designer nonsense. You ramble on about nonsensical things and your name on the interweb is dragged through the mud, by your own postings no less, to the point that a license will do you no good. You are no closer to getting a license today then you were ten years ago and as far as I can tell it will take ten more years for you to actually get through school.
Maybe try your hand at something else.
OTF since you are a build dept. person and we are so far into the thread.........i know every township etc... is different but I would like to know, assuming you may do this, how do you decide when to issue memorandums and bulletins that either clarify or modify the acting building code? i feel like more often then not, a few of my projects may accidentally beg the question or may quite literally represent the code in a manner the examiner may not be prepared for, it goes to the higher ups and strange decisions eventually, and i mean eventually, reinforce the decision. How do you adjust for this, the architects creatively and accurately interpret the code contrary to what amounts to your offices opinion?
^^ In NJ you can send anything you want to the DCA and they will provide an answer. After I receive that, I trump any AHJ misunderstanding...
EKE - 42" rails!? 36" I get. Ever been to the Guggenheim? The spiral rail is only 30" and it's wider at the ramp side, very uncomfortable feeling.
Here in Paradise the powers that be decided to 'protect scenic vistas' by lowering the maximum allowed height from 36' to 32'. The end result? 32' high flat roofed or gambrels with multiple gambrel dormers. There were no gambrels here at all before this restriction changed.
We also have laws limiting square footage. 15k for a superstore, 20k for a house.
Yes, Otf, we're similar - I have a Facilities job now but also do side freelance jobs for fun. It's allowed by my employer, and as of yet I've never had to stamp any of my side jobs. But I'm blatantly proud of the fact that I'm a registered architect. It was a huge personal goal of mine and I crossed that finish line. Yay for me and ya for everyone who has also become registered, no matter what they do with it. Just Wednesday night I was at a bar and a guy came in and his friend announced that the guy had just gotten his Pass notice on his last exam and we all cheered and hooted and raised our glasses to him. It's wonderful!
Miles, 1070mm (42") guards are standard here on any platform with a 1220mm (4') or higher drop. We've had to argue, and loose, on business building entrance staircases where the city claimed that a 914mm (36") standard railing was too easy to climb and that someone could fall to their deaths unless we boosted it to 1070.
I'd like to see any jurisdiction that would allow a railing like the one of the Guggenheim today.
Too easy to climb - by who? Rails are supposed to prevent you from accidently falling, not intentionally falling.
If we're talking 4-yr olds we're back to parental supervision. Maybe potential parents should be trained, tested and licensed before being allowed to reproduce. Then we could get rid of codes intended to protect from stupidity but actually foster it.
Miles, as a future parent to be, I agree.
My city plan reviewers just assume that everybody instantly tries to throw themselves of any ledge not guarded by a tall fence c/w vertical pickets.
When the next Black Tuesday comes on Wall Street, how are all those poor stockbrokers going to kill themselves?
I was under the impression that you need a 42" guard the moment the drop is above 30", not 4'-0".
Sneaky Pete, a 1070mm guard is required an any edge/platform with a height of 600mm or more and at all stair landings. The 1220 example I refereed was based on a previous project where the inspector was adamant about people falling to their deaths.
I am reciting this from memory, so I might be a little off on my OBC numbers.
geezer, i think if they wanted to prevent stock brokers from jumping the their deaths from a height of 30" to 48", they probably would have made the guard rail regulation 48" instead of 42".
How high can a weasel climb?
well my buddy whose second language is English who doesnt realize the difference btw building code and the zoning ordinance gets paid better than anyone with same experience and is a city benefit bu tbinking is hard (they are coached that way).....
Ugh. This is really GOP.
knock knock what does that have to do with anything? if one can not master the language of the code how can one be an examiner? if you want to make money in this business and do not want to be reallt challnged, become an examiner.......we are discussing code here......leave your baggage at the door.
NYC BC 1968 -
§[C26-503.4] 27-334 Protective guards. - Buildings that are more than twenty-two feet in height and have roofs that are flatter than twenty degrees to the horizontal shall be provided with a parapet not less than three feet six inches high, or be provided with a three foot six inch high railing or fence, or a combination of a parapet and railing or fence which together are not less than three feet six inches high. Railings or fences may be located inward from the face of the exterior wall a distance not exceeding six feet, and shall be of a type that will prevent children from crawling through or over them.
That's right, children proof, a tried and true method for determining the value of a code statement.
Your sentences are full of signifiers and they lead me to think you posses racist reactions like the GOP contenders. It's not my baggage but yours.
No offense, maybe you are thinking like this subconsciously and actually a nice guy in real world. I am not even an advocate of political correctness. I am just pointing out to some readings into your bitter sounding words connecting your mock "buddy" to ESL, spoken by immigrants, connecting them to dumbness and bitterly lamenting their pay. As a triple registered architect you could talk to examiner's higher ups and try to resolve the insulation confusion. You could point to error and bring it up to the director's attention. These should be part of our efforts as professional architects and partake in this process whenever we can. You could write a short letter to officials (but watch your spelling and English and don't text message them while intoxicated).
Instead, you lament and prefer to connect immigration, dumbness and undeserved earnings that are higher than natural born citizens of your own kind, just like the GOP does.
Sorry, that's how it reads buddy. Have a good night. Forgive me if I am a wrong or dumb examiner of your words. I also speak ESL and argued with the building department Jacks and Jills and Ahmeds and Fernandos and Mings before and also helped them rethink a thing or two.
well my buddy whose second language is English who doesnt realize the difference btw building code and the zoning ordinance gets paid better than anyone with same experience and is a city benefit bu tbinking is hard (they are coached that way).....so a good reason to become a plan examinern, be dumb and paid well. there are a few smart ones but most prefer language "cause its to code" over legalise..........
What kind of child? How old? How tall? We really need Somme additional legislation here...
JeromeS, that's why they came out with 2008, then 2014 code, I haven't found a similar statement yet, looking for.
but these CHILDREN must be Vetted!
knock knock....meh, well...yadayada.... you probably don't do well at reading code, it's kind of obvious, but you won't understand that.
On the fence:
I have as much college earned course credits as most architects. I have over 300 credits of earned college education. I had already spent over 10 years of my life in college.
If I bothered to go back to UO or any other college for an architecture degree, it is just going to compile a debt that will never get paid off with the shit pay that one gets at an architecture program. Hell, by 2022, intern pay in Portland, Oregon would be only 20 cents above minimum wage. It isn't like they'll raise the pay of employees to adjust. They hadn't been doing so during all the other minimum wage bumps. This is typical when job positions are over the minimum wage so employers tend not to bump it up. Eventually, the pay becomes minimum wage. This is one of the concerns I had with the minimum wage increase in Oregon.
There's this little thing regarding Appendix A:
(Not adopted by the State of Oregon, but may be adopted by local municipalities)
This means that certifications are derived by rule and policy of the State Building Code division and the municipalities ultimately determine qualifications standards.
They are more concern with 5 years of experience relevant but not necessarily strictly adhered to. The building official in charge at the jurisdiction ultimately decides. Even a competent building designer with the plan reviewer certification can pursue such roles as pertinent.
Here's the thing, if I work for the city or county, I would likely not be allowed to operate as a building designer or any business in the private sector sense.
I do consider and ponder it but I am not yet there. Undergoing such ICC certification is an option and not a really difficult thing. However, I would be in a difficult position to continue any private business operation. Aside from the time availability to be able to properly run such a business, especially a business like architecture or building design..... but there is also the concerns of COI issues with regards to public employees operating a private business.
SORRY BUT THIS ABOVE IS KIND OF OFF-TOPIC AND OFF ON A TANGENT SO LETS MOVE ALONG.
SORRY BUT THIS ABOVE IS KIND OF OFF-TOPIC AND OFF ON A TANGENT SO LETS MOVE ALONG.
so why do it brah?!!??!?!?!
To have the final word on this tangent.
I like that the rim of the grand canyon and some european castle ruins have beautiful spaces and constructions where a plunge to your splattering is unencumbered by guardrails of any sort
no final word for you! (sorry, I spent my morning in Flushing,Queens)
the Koreans don't talk to the Chinese - old school.
Um, that fellow is Okinawan if I remember correctly.
I like that the rim of the grand canyon and some european castle ruins have beautiful spaces and constructions where a plunge to your splattering is unencumbered by guardrails of any sort
LOL!
"To have the final word on this tangent."
Your final words are whats killing you RickB-OR
The City of Seattle Zoning Code has a section of rules about potbellied pigs. Does that count as retarded?
On the Fence,
I've long time ago given up on pursuing architectural license because the architecture profession is a dying if not dead profession. No body wants an architect. They will side step an architect by hiring a contractor and an engineer. People value an engineer over an architect.
By 2023 (if not somehow before hand), minimum wage in Portland, Oregon. This pay rate of entry level IDP positions is going to be minimum wage. In a couple more years, the rest of the state will reach that point and guess what.... what the f--- is the point of getting in debt for $100K to $200K and have less to live on than a person flipping burgers at a fast food place.
I see the cost of food and everything else going up about 150% in that time frame.
Why in the world would I get in debt so much just to get paid the same amount.
FUCK THAT.
I would be better off not getting licensed as an architect because that is a license of a profession most with the money does NOT respect or value. They don't value architects because architects are seen as expensive and causes the upfront cost of projects to balloon than what they can afford. Architects have champaign taste but doesn't understand how to design for a client on a 'beer' budget. They are dreamers of grandeur while the client wants the feel of grandeur but they don't have the budget for the most authentic and expensive form of it. They don't want Taj Mahal but they want an improvement that is noticeable but at the same time they don't want to draw too much attention. They want something that is better and something they feel excited to have their friends over but they don't want everyone around the country coming over photographing their home and degrading their atmosphere of privacy.
As for getting licensed, I don't want it. It isn't going to happen. I don't care to. I don't want to be spending my hard earned money on an agency of the state that I personally think is a worthless piece of crap.
I don't believe in this architectural licensing. I don't believe in occupational licensing. I personally believe it is just an attempt towards creating an cartel which is illegal and violates the antitrust laws. As these licensing programs are for one thing and one thing only, to control how many people are licensed. The same people running the boards are also part of the same consorted group that runs the architecture schools and runs NAAB and NCARB. It is one consorted collusion. The people who run these programs are primarily interested in limiting how many and who can be licensed.
Can a mother fucker get a Balkinator, in this mother mucker?
Face it Balkins, you only take that stance because you've failed at getting licensed the normal way. It's easier to claim there is an evil boogie man out to get you than it is to make the effort.
Need we not remind you how ignorant your are? Seems to be a trend today.
gwharton, your potbellied pig comment reminds me: did you know the ADA allows for the use of a Support Shetland Pony? Yes, really. I could have a Shetland Pony come to work to help me, and my workplace would have to accommodate it.
It also reminds me of the brush-fire-preventative goat herds in California.
I'm proudly as bleeding-heart as they come but some things about our human society truly are ridiculous.
Non Sequitur,
Intern pay sucks. Anyone who spends 5 years of college should be earning income of $75,000 a year and pay increase $10,000 a year for every year of experience + percentile adjustment for inflation (3% or whatever it is).
Apparently, architects don't make that kind of money.
Any person with 4 year of education should be making $60,000 a year and a person with 2 year degree making at least 45,000 a year. 1 year certificate making 35,000 and no degree or education making minimum wage.
donna, you should have a shetland pony at work. it's kind of ridiculous that you don't.
Actually, pigs are very intelligent despite the stereotype. Municipal zoning administrators, on the other hand,..............................
*lightbulb* curt you are absolutely right! I'm getting one tomorrow.
Ricky, I know quite a bit more when it comes to entry salary because, well, I'm actually gainfully employed in the field... which I need not remind you that you are not.
Wages are not as terrible as you paint them to be and there will always be bottom of the barrel people who will work or employ people for 40hrs/week for $10/hour.
However, local market forces, project size and type make your general compensation statements as worthless as your excuses for failure to chase licencing. Decently well-rounded architects with moderate experience make right about what you're listing. You just need to actually talk to real people, not rely on the few disgruntled interns.
Donna, I've heard about the seeing-eye type help piggies. Just adorable.
I see the salary from job posting. That's the salary.
Actually, NS.... in 2017, $10/hr will be below minimum wage in Oregon.
All the interns here are disgruntle. How can all the interns that comes here is disgruntle. Not just hear but every other architecture forum.
I never hear interns being chippery and happy about the job and the pay.
You would expect a lot more interns be chippery and talking about how great the profession is but why is that never heard here or anywhere?
Remember, you say a well rounded architect makes those money but it takes a decade of a person's life to be licensed and then to get that well rounded in an office so to speak as you would be implying would then be another 10 years. NEARLY HALF THE PERSON'S working career being an average of ~45 years which starts when a person begins their college education or career field work (if they choose an experience based path or start with a job).
Assuming 18 years of age to 63 years of age.
By that time, a person in the video game industry can easily be making $150K to $250K. A well experienced game designer would easily command a salary on the order of $150K a year base salary plus benefits & bonuses plus royalties from the games that can often brings in millions of dollars a year of royalty payments to the game designer.
Think about that for a moment. Living income being on the order of $1-5 Million a year. Some more.
You never see that in architecture.
You would expect a lot more interns be chippery and talking about how great the profession is but why is that never heard here or anywhere?
dude. they're working instead of screwing around on the internet. duh.
and many hockey players make 5million per year or more. Your comparison of two different fields does not apply.
I make my earlier point based on first hand knowledge I have and that which I receive from my other, gainfully employed colleagues. You need better sources.
Balkins are you sippin the syzurp again?
curtkram,
NOT IF ARCHITECT EMPLOYERS ARE FORCING THEM TO WORK 168 HOURS A WEEK just to get a livable income.
if they're forced to work 168 hours a week, they aren't going to have much time left over to read your long posts, are they?
Rick have you ever looked at a chart of average career earnings? Usually in the first third of one's career in a professional field the salary curve moves fairly steeply upward after the first couple years. On average one will reach double their original salary somewhere around the 8th to 12th year. After that the curve still rises until about the mid-point of one's career - but more slowly. After the mid point it may rise or fall a bit, but generally plateaus at the top for awhile - and then in the final third of one's career the salary tends to drop, slowly, though not usually to less than about 80% of the highest salary.
For most people in professional fields each career third lasts about 12 to 15 years. The interesting thing though is that for people who start their careers late, or get into a field late, their chart is different in that it's the middle third that is missing. They don't reach the highest peak of those with a longer career in the field, and they don't have the plateau near the high-earning point for several years.
So by avoiding working for so many years, and living in poverty while playing on the internet day in and day out, rather than tolerate those first few low-paying years, you've cheated yourself out of the high-paying years. I don't know any architecture firm employees anywhere making minimum wage - but even if you did make minimum wage for a year or two working full time in a firm, that would be more than you've made in any year yet - and it would be a step up the curve. The longer you do nothing, the more of the middle of the curve you cut out, and the lower the possible high point becomes.
I'm happy with my pay and my job. I love architecture.
Sincerely,
Everyday Intern
if they're forced to work 168 hours a week, they aren't going to have much time left over to read your long posts, are they?
Curtkram,
None of them will be employees for long, either. They would all quit. It's not that they would have much time left over.... they would have NO time left over.
Most of them getting decent living salary has to work like 80-100 hours a week to get it but when you divide there pay by the hours, it isn't that good.
They'd be better off in just about every other career out there from a financial point of view.
Do you make a decent living salary?
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