A year ago I started a project to remodel my house and do an addition. I'm adding a bedroom and redoing the kitchen. I found this drafter/designer and started to work with him, but as the time went on nothing was done. I signed a contract with him last February, it took him till June of last year to send me the first floor plan of my house. He said that during that time he went to the city to ask about the all the information and the requirements for the project. I looked over his floor plan and did not like because it was very ugly, so I had to make changes. Hes very lazy and I don't know why I kept staying with him I should have left him when I had the chance. The changes that I make is nothing drastic, maybe move a door, window, a bathroom to some place else in the house so I can see the different angles, because he never gives ideas and his ideas suck. Now we are in July, he calls me and he was like he found out from the city that since this is a big project we need an engineer. (In the four months he couldn't figure this out?)So I had to shell out more money to pay the engineer. It took him until September when we first went to the city to get the plans approved. The long wait was because he went on vacation and then there were problems with him engineer. Crazy! Once we went to the city, the planner told us that our plans aren't approved because we need convert our one car garage to a two car garage because we are adding a bedroom. The drafter started covering his lies up by saying oh he asked the city about these requirement and they said they weren't necessary. He also started blaming on the planner and was like that guy is dumb. SERIOUSLY HE WENT TO THE CITY FOR 4 MONTHS AND COULDNT GET EVERYTHING STRAIGHT? So we went back to the drawing board and started on a brand new floor plan. Now he starts complaining about my changes, WHEN SPECIFICALLY THIS WAS HIS FAULT HE DIDNT MAKE SURE OF ALL THE REQUIREMENTS. We got the floor plan finalized in November. Now onto roofing, the roofing had to be redone now and I told him that I want a specifically style of roofing and repeatedly told me it can't be done and he gives me this confusing roofing plan that he says is better than mine(I sent his roof to the planner and they hated it they were like why would someone draw that). By this time I am starting to get mad now because he keeps saying every week he goes to the city to talk to them and ask them about everything. He ended up drawing up the roofing style that I wanted but here's the catch he made the height of the roof too high. In December I went to the city and brought the plans to the planner myself because I can't stand his lies and his cheats anymore. The planner approved everything right away except the roofing because she said this was too high. I called him and was like this is too high and you need to change it. Now he was like yeah I told you this wouldn't work(he told me nothing about this height issue he just said he didn't like the design the design was approved by the city but they didn't like the height all I needed to do was lower it and everything would be good to go). He's now asking me for money when we are almost done with the project. It's been a year and now he's making me pay him more only for the changes that I made(the changes was because of him because as the architect he didn't know anything about the dimensions and the requirements of course I have to make changes I can't keep it like that it won't get approved!!!!) I am now one year deep in this and I don't know what to do.
Im gonna guess that you paid him $1000 or less. At this point I would cut my losses and find a professional. How did you find this guy?
Please use paragraphs in your response...
So often in these first-time-posting jeremiads, the OP vents and never returns. Let's see if s/he is actually interested enough to answer a question or two.
I had someone ask me to design a house for me and pay by the square foot. I tried to negotiate a lump sum instead and when I asked for a retainer, they said the project was suddenly postponed.
"The changes that I make is nothing drastic, maybe move a door, window, a bathroom to some place else"
Everyone knows moving a bathroom is just ctrl C, ctrl V. Don't see why the architect can't do that as a freebie.
I don't know the OP. I don't think the 'Architect' in the complaint is an architect. I may criticize some architects but I doubt any real architect would be that bad. Then again, why would any of us care. It's drama and we don't read both sides of the story so nope... not interested in this drama crap.
Title says Architect. Nothing about the word soup following says Architect.
And something I'm hung up on... There is a requirement for increasing size of garage based on number of bedrooms??? Does this actually exist?
I never seen anything like that before. It isn't in the unmodified I-codes. I don't know where this project is located but it would have to be a local requirement but before commenting there, I would need to know what jurisdiction this is at before saying whether or not it is for real. When it comes to my jurisdiction, the Oregon modified I-codes (the Oregon specialty codes) doesn't require anything like that. If this was in connection with an SFR, it wouldn't be. As far as apartments, I have to check but I can understand a certain number of parking per number of occupants with regards to non-SFRs such as MFRs, other occupancy classification, etc. I just don't get that for an SFR.
Feb 4, 16 12:13 am ·
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b3tadine[sutures],
Man, all the suckers love Craigslist.
That must be what I am doing wrong in getting clients.
I paid him $2800 for the drafter stuff. Another $1200 for structural.
Well I didn't find him, I had a previous project and I found him at the city 5 years ago. He made some promises that when I wanted to do an addition call him. The previous project was just a patio. I did have few problems then but wasn't drastic.
This is a true story. It seems very crazy but yes sadly the story is true.
Sorry about the confusing long paragraph. This was like after I argued with him on the phone. This was like a vent and also a cry for help.
If I did explain this in excruciating detail, it would be even worse.
chris-chitect,
I had someone ask me to design a house for me and pay by the square foot. I tried to negotiate a lump sum instead and when I asked for a retainer, they said the project was suddenly postponed.
"The changes that I make is nothing drastic, maybe move a door, window, a bathroom to some place else"
Everyone knows moving a bathroom is just ctrl C, ctrl V. Don't see why the architect can't do that as a freebie.
When I was arguing with him on the phone the other day, he was complaining about all my changes...I told him this and that it takes like 5 seconds on his computer. HE DID THIS RIGHT IN FRONT ME AT MY HOUSE WHEN WE WERE MEETING. He was like "oh but still I have to calculate the dimensions and that take a lot of time" isn't that also computer done?
senjohnblutarsky,
Title says Architect. Nothing about the word soup following says Architect.
And something I'm hung up on... There is a requirement for increasing size of garage based on number of bedrooms??? Does this actually exist?
Yeah, there actually is. My house is currently a 2 bedroom 1 garage I'm adding a bedroom and I need to convert into a two car garage. Im in California. It seems crazy because in front of my house has tons of space for parking.
also, you sound like the type client that is their own worst enemy but does not like to pay alot, so you got what paid for and you caused just about all of this to happen. its like telling a fat persom they are fucking fat, and since I do not know you nor need your business I just did that. Hire a professional and get out of the way.
A year ago I started a project to remodel my house and do an addition. I'm adding a bedroom, redoing the kitchen and adding a family room. This drafter worked with me on a previous project of building a patio 5 years ago. I didn't keep in contact with him but he told me that last time that if I ever wanted to do an addition call him...now boy was that a mistake
I found his phone number and called him February of last year. He came out and I signed a contract with him last February. It took him till June of last year to send me the first floor plan of my house. The long wait was because he went two vacations and said that he had to go to the city to ask about all the codes and requirements for the addition. Once I looked over his floor plan, I didn't like it. It was very cookie cutter and simple. There was no island in the kitchen either I added one in and he was apprehensive about it. Most of the ideas I propose he never agrees with them. He always says his are better. He says I make to many changes. This is partly because when I tell him what I want he never writes them down and once he goes and put it on the floor plan he forgets.
I work with him to finalize a floor plan. But then he calls me and said that the city requires us to get an structural engineer. This was right in the middle of us finishing the floor plan. This was not in the contract. I agreed and shelled out the money to pay $1200. I asked him why he didn't know of this sooner and he was like he asked a dumb planner and that guy doesn't know anything(throughout this project he blames it on this planner I told him that if he is so dumb and doesn't know anything then see someone else...he goes and sees the same guy....)We finalize the floor plan at the end of July. It wasnt until end of September when we went to the city. The problem was that he had problems with his mechanical and electrical engineers. I waited I can't believe it either. I was weirdly patient. I pushed him to get it done faster but he kept giving me excuses.
We go to the city in September and then the planner looks at our plan is very angry. He was like these plans are inaccurate and drops the bombshell we need to convert the one car garage into a two car garage because of the addition. I was so dumbfounded by this and I tried to talk with the drafter why he didn't this right at that moment. He says he has a meeting and runs off and leaves me with one of the engineers at the city. I called him later on and he said it's because of the planner and that he's dumb and he's getting old and doesn't know anything.
We start again making a brand new floor plan. Everything needs to be redone. Here's another problem, so a few houses down my street had their setback on one side of their house reduced. I told my drafter this. He went to the city and asked they said now. He told me that all the people on my street were doing this illegally(they all had plans approved they had their whole house rebuilt so there is no way they could do it illegally) i repeatedly told him this and he was like no. I told him that this is my house and I know the city will approve it. He puts it on the plan but complains. We finalize the floor plan in November.
We then started to redo the roof. I told him that I wanted a specific roof style. He drew this but here's the catch the city maximum height for the roof is 18' he made it to 20'. I didn't know this so I approved the roof and then I went to the city in December to submit the plans. This time I went by myself because I couldn't trust him anymore. I went to a different planner and left the plans for them. A week later the planner calls me and was like the setback is fine, but the roof is a problem. THE SETBACK WAS FINE! IT WAS APPROVED! I met with the planner and she was like why is the roof like this. I was like I didn't know of this. She was like fix the roof and everything will be good to go.
Now we are into January. I call the drafter and I was like the roof is too high and he was like you wanted it like that...I told him I wanted the style, but not the height. He was like I knew this wasn't going to work so that's why he drew a different roof design(I showed this design to the planner as an alternative she was disgusted by it the design was one side of the house with two side gables) he was like yeah that's why my design was better I told him I showed it to her and she didn't like it. For the roof that I wanted the planner told me to just lower the roof and it would work. How would you lower it? Just lower the angle and the pitch and it would make the height lower. Well he was dumb and didn't know this. He told me I think this won't work and he said he refuses to send this to his structural engineer. I told him that give me the draft of it and I will give it to the planner. She approved it. I sent it back to him.
He emails me a few days ago and complains about all the changes I made and blames me for the roofing and changes. He says that he drew 15 floor plans for me. If anyone looks at these so called 15 floor plans there is nothing different between them. The first one he sent me was so simple like a blank paper. No island. Nothing. On these floor plans maybe a few difference would be the location or the kitchen bathroom or doors or windows. I told all of the changes at once but every time he goes to the computer he forgets and he ends up having to go back over and over again which caused the 15 floor plans. We were up to about floor plan 8 for the first finalize until we had to do it over again because of the garage thing. And all these plans were redone because there were requirements from the city. Each time he hears something we need to change everything.
He asking $1300 more money for the mechanical and electrical engineer because he has to rework the plans. They only need to be reworked because the last time he submitted was about the garage thing. I told him that I'm not gonna pay him. His demands are crazy. I don't know what is gonna happen but he said that he needs to talk to his structural engineer about the roofing because he thinks it's too heavy. In the contract I still have $1000 left and that is when plans are approved by the city everything then that's when I pay him. If he doesn't finish it he's gonna lose $1000...try to get $1300 but gonna lose it all if he refuses to finish the plans.
Even taking on an additional $1300 to the original $2800 is still dirt cheap and like other pointed out above, you got what you paid for.
Don't hire chumps who value their time and abilities at minimum wage rates. Cut your losses and hire an architect to start over. Don't cut corners with cheap unskilled draftsmen.
inhell - my first post on this thread pointed out your mistake but you followed it with a very very long repeat of your initial post, which proves my second point, you are your own worst enemy. how much time are you spending calling and ranting? HIRE AN ARCHITECT and pony up the fee and stay out od the way.
Do it yourself, its a home improvement/addition. I don't exactly understand why people hire others to "design" when all they have up to offer is bottom barrel sums of money, should have used the 2.4k buying a nice window or something.
OP: As noted above, paragraphs and punctuation are good things. You probably heard that in the eighth grade, and it's still true.
Also, if you are old enough to own a house, you are old enough not to make every fifth word "like", particularly when you are writing and not speaking extemporaneously. If you want credibility, it's really like important to like you know like sound like a like valley girl, I mean it's sounds so like imaturrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre.
Regarding the necessity for the structural engineer: that is not your drafter/designer's fault, and not something he could have known definitively from the city before he had a design to present to them. It is at the discretion of the building official to require an engineer's involvement, based on the complexity of the project. The building official generally does not make that determination until after he receives preliminary drawings.
As for the roof issue: planners are not architects or structural engineers. The planner approves of that change merely because it meets the city's height requirement - but that's no guarantee of its constructability. Why does your designer think it "won't work"? You seem to think his concerns are only aesthetic, but have you asked whether he has concerns about the feasibility of construction, the structural integrity, ventilation, the materials, etc.? Examples: some roofing materials cannot be used on slopes below a certain threshold; some low roof configurations are difficult to properly vent or insulate; etc. Just because it can be drawn doesn't mean it should be built.
It's hard to say whether the "small" changes you're asking for at this point are worth what he's charging or not. Your list of doors, windows, kitchen island, zoning-related garage changes, roof changes, etc. is not a small list, and some of the items do need to be coordinated with consultants. Consider that if you had decided to work with a stock plan company instead and buy a plan for your addition, they typically charge $50 to $100 for every single individual change to every sheet, so your list in that scenario would far exceed $1300 (not to mention that the cost to purchase the stock plan would have been more in the first place than your designer's entire bill to date). I understand that you think some of these changes are your designer's fault and should be at his expense - but can you substantiate that? Zoning, for example, is interpreted by individual officials and it may well be true that the person with whom the designer originally spoke told him that the garage requirement would not apply, while someone else later determined the opposite. Why would you expect the designer to foot the bill for changes necessitated by that scenario? And what does your contract say, if anything, about the number of schemes that were to be provided for the original fee?
Unless your contract specifically states otherwise you're well within your rights to terminate this designer's services at any time and for any reason (but check your contract regarding procedures, notice, etc.). You probably should have done that way back when it took him 4 months to get you an initial schematic. But at this point if you terminate him before you get a building permit you're probably going to have to hire someone else to draw new plans. Only you can say if that's worth it.
I get that you are disappointed by the incompetency of the guy you worked with. It seems reasonable to expect some modicum of professionalism, whoever he may be.
But, as a point of reference for the fee involved for me to provide the service you expect (I can't speak for others here), my fee would be 8-10x the numbers you are quoting including the add services he's asking for. And I am not exorbitantly expensive in my market.
I dunno, chalk it up to lesson learned about the value of professional help. Good luck moving forward!
Call the bedroom a den and no garage required. Add the closet later. I think Balkins could provide a good set of documents for the closet plus he will field verify all existing conditions and dimensions to 1/32".
how would you like to spend a year with a client that kept telling you that you suck at drafting and you can't design a roof because you didn't even include an island in the kitchen?
for $2800, my patience would wear thin pretty quick too.
if you want the guy to start caring about you, make it worth his time. either start caring about what he has to say, or pay him enough to start caring about what's probably a pretty shitty project to begin with.
Feb 4, 16 1:54 pm ·
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I don't have anything to do with this project. Personally, I am not interested. Not for this crap which I would have to go through a bit of work of ascertaining the local requirements for what they are.
Feb 4, 16 2:29 pm ·
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I don't like getting involved on a project with clients after they had a bad working relationship with another designer/drafter/architect/etc. especially after an already excessively low pay for the work involved. Why? The client would want me to do it for nothing or less than it cost to make the prints of the building plans at a print shop. No thank you.
^ Reminding us of the niche market for the architect as fixer: the 2nd round, picking up the pieces after a neophyte client and drafter/designer/contractor have reached an impasse (and maybe come to blows).
Architect asking for change order money
A year ago I started a project to remodel my house and do an addition. I'm adding a bedroom and redoing the kitchen. I found this drafter/designer and started to work with him, but as the time went on nothing was done. I signed a contract with him last February, it took him till June of last year to send me the first floor plan of my house. He said that during that time he went to the city to ask about the all the information and the requirements for the project. I looked over his floor plan and did not like because it was very ugly, so I had to make changes. Hes very lazy and I don't know why I kept staying with him I should have left him when I had the chance. The changes that I make is nothing drastic, maybe move a door, window, a bathroom to some place else in the house so I can see the different angles, because he never gives ideas and his ideas suck. Now we are in July, he calls me and he was like he found out from the city that since this is a big project we need an engineer. (In the four months he couldn't figure this out?)So I had to shell out more money to pay the engineer. It took him until September when we first went to the city to get the plans approved. The long wait was because he went on vacation and then there were problems with him engineer. Crazy! Once we went to the city, the planner told us that our plans aren't approved because we need convert our one car garage to a two car garage because we are adding a bedroom. The drafter started covering his lies up by saying oh he asked the city about these requirement and they said they weren't necessary. He also started blaming on the planner and was like that guy is dumb. SERIOUSLY HE WENT TO THE CITY FOR 4 MONTHS AND COULDNT GET EVERYTHING STRAIGHT? So we went back to the drawing board and started on a brand new floor plan. Now he starts complaining about my changes, WHEN SPECIFICALLY THIS WAS HIS FAULT HE DIDNT MAKE SURE OF ALL THE REQUIREMENTS. We got the floor plan finalized in November. Now onto roofing, the roofing had to be redone now and I told him that I want a specifically style of roofing and repeatedly told me it can't be done and he gives me this confusing roofing plan that he says is better than mine(I sent his roof to the planner and they hated it they were like why would someone draw that). By this time I am starting to get mad now because he keeps saying every week he goes to the city to talk to them and ask them about everything. He ended up drawing up the roofing style that I wanted but here's the catch he made the height of the roof too high. In December I went to the city and brought the plans to the planner myself because I can't stand his lies and his cheats anymore. The planner approved everything right away except the roofing because she said this was too high. I called him and was like this is too high and you need to change it. Now he was like yeah I told you this wouldn't work(he told me nothing about this height issue he just said he didn't like the design the design was approved by the city but they didn't like the height all I needed to do was lower it and everything would be good to go). He's now asking me for money when we are almost done with the project. It's been a year and now he's making me pay him more only for the changes that I made(the changes was because of him because as the architect he didn't know anything about the dimensions and the requirements of course I have to make changes I can't keep it like that it won't get approved!!!!) I am now one year deep in this and I don't know what to do.
This should be good...
first of all, how much did you pay him?
This isn't in Astoria, OR by any chance?
Im gonna guess that you paid him $1000 or less. At this point I would cut my losses and find a professional. How did you find this guy? Please use paragraphs in your response...
You should have hired an architect. Lesson here, don't be a cheap douche-bag.
tried to read your garbled rant - use paragraphs - fuck off.
Title says Architect. Nothing about the word soup following says Architect.
And something I'm hung up on... There is a requirement for increasing size of garage based on number of bedrooms??? Does this actually exist?
Popcorn! Popcorn for $5 a bucket!
.
The OP sounds like a d-bag client
Can’t stop laughing, no way this is a real story….think chigurh is onto the source of the real problem.
So often in these first-time-posting jeremiads, the OP vents and never returns. Let's see if s/he is actually interested enough to answer a question or two.
like what do you like want us to like do about it?
"a fool and his money are soon parted"
You got screwed. Somewhere on the forum there was a guy doing plans for $0.08 per sq.ft.
I had someone ask me to design a house for me and pay by the square foot. I tried to negotiate a lump sum instead and when I asked for a retainer, they said the project was suddenly postponed.
"The changes that I make is nothing drastic, maybe move a door, window, a bathroom to some place else"
Everyone knows moving a bathroom is just ctrl C, ctrl V. Don't see why the architect can't do that as a freebie.
This is why I put an hours cap into all my contracts beyond the deliverable.
Oh you approved a DD set and want layout changes? Ding, hourly rate. Enjoy.
^ exactly.
Nope.
I don't know the OP. I don't think the 'Architect' in the complaint is an architect. I may criticize some architects but I doubt any real architect would be that bad. Then again, why would any of us care. It's drama and we don't read both sides of the story so nope... not interested in this drama crap.
Correction to Miles response:
You got FUCKED !!!!
Man, all the suckers love Craigslist.
senjonblutarky,
Title says Architect. Nothing about the word soup following says Architect.
And something I'm hung up on... There is a requirement for increasing size of garage based on number of bedrooms??? Does this actually exist?
I never seen anything like that before. It isn't in the unmodified I-codes. I don't know where this project is located but it would have to be a local requirement but before commenting there, I would need to know what jurisdiction this is at before saying whether or not it is for real. When it comes to my jurisdiction, the Oregon modified I-codes (the Oregon specialty codes) doesn't require anything like that. If this was in connection with an SFR, it wouldn't be. As far as apartments, I have to check but I can understand a certain number of parking per number of occupants with regards to non-SFRs such as MFRs, other occupancy classification, etc. I just don't get that for an SFR.
b3tadine[sutures],
Man, all the suckers love Craigslist.
That must be what I am doing wrong in getting clients.
Wut?
I paid him $2800 for the drafter stuff. Another $1200 for structural.
Well I didn't find him, I had a previous project and I found him at the city 5 years ago. He made some promises that when I wanted to do an addition call him. The previous project was just a patio. I did have few problems then but wasn't drastic.
This is a true story. It seems very crazy but yes sadly the story is true.
Sorry about the confusing long paragraph. This was like after I argued with him on the phone. This was like a vent and also a cry for help.
If I did explain this in excruciating detail, it would be even worse.
chris-chitect,
I had someone ask me to design a house for me and pay by the square foot. I tried to negotiate a lump sum instead and when I asked for a retainer, they said the project was suddenly postponed.
"The changes that I make is nothing drastic, maybe move a door, window, a bathroom to some place else"
Everyone knows moving a bathroom is just ctrl C, ctrl V. Don't see why the architect can't do that as a freebie.
When I was arguing with him on the phone the other day, he was complaining about all my changes...I told him this and that it takes like 5 seconds on his computer. HE DID THIS RIGHT IN FRONT ME AT MY HOUSE WHEN WE WERE MEETING. He was like "oh but still I have to calculate the dimensions and that take a lot of time" isn't that also computer done?
senjohnblutarsky,
Title says Architect. Nothing about the word soup following says Architect.
And something I'm hung up on... There is a requirement for increasing size of garage based on number of bedrooms??? Does this actually exist?
Yeah, there actually is. My house is currently a 2 bedroom 1 garage I'm adding a bedroom and I need to convert into a two car garage. Im in California. It seems crazy because in front of my house has tons of space for parking.
you said you hired a drafter and not a an architect. you do know there is a difference right?
also, you sound like the type client that is their own worst enemy but does not like to pay alot, so you got what paid for and you caused just about all of this to happen. its like telling a fat persom they are fucking fat, and since I do not know you nor need your business I just did that. Hire a professional and get out of the way.
Here is the detailed version.
A year ago I started a project to remodel my house and do an addition. I'm adding a bedroom, redoing the kitchen and adding a family room. This drafter worked with me on a previous project of building a patio 5 years ago. I didn't keep in contact with him but he told me that last time that if I ever wanted to do an addition call him...now boy was that a mistake
I found his phone number and called him February of last year. He came out and I signed a contract with him last February. It took him till June of last year to send me the first floor plan of my house. The long wait was because he went two vacations and said that he had to go to the city to ask about all the codes and requirements for the addition. Once I looked over his floor plan, I didn't like it. It was very cookie cutter and simple. There was no island in the kitchen either I added one in and he was apprehensive about it. Most of the ideas I propose he never agrees with them. He always says his are better. He says I make to many changes. This is partly because when I tell him what I want he never writes them down and once he goes and put it on the floor plan he forgets.
I work with him to finalize a floor plan. But then he calls me and said that the city requires us to get an structural engineer. This was right in the middle of us finishing the floor plan. This was not in the contract. I agreed and shelled out the money to pay $1200. I asked him why he didn't know of this sooner and he was like he asked a dumb planner and that guy doesn't know anything(throughout this project he blames it on this planner I told him that if he is so dumb and doesn't know anything then see someone else...he goes and sees the same guy....)We finalize the floor plan at the end of July. It wasnt until end of September when we went to the city. The problem was that he had problems with his mechanical and electrical engineers. I waited I can't believe it either. I was weirdly patient. I pushed him to get it done faster but he kept giving me excuses.
We go to the city in September and then the planner looks at our plan is very angry. He was like these plans are inaccurate and drops the bombshell we need to convert the one car garage into a two car garage because of the addition. I was so dumbfounded by this and I tried to talk with the drafter why he didn't this right at that moment. He says he has a meeting and runs off and leaves me with one of the engineers at the city. I called him later on and he said it's because of the planner and that he's dumb and he's getting old and doesn't know anything.
We start again making a brand new floor plan. Everything needs to be redone. Here's another problem, so a few houses down my street had their setback on one side of their house reduced. I told my drafter this. He went to the city and asked they said now. He told me that all the people on my street were doing this illegally(they all had plans approved they had their whole house rebuilt so there is no way they could do it illegally) i repeatedly told him this and he was like no. I told him that this is my house and I know the city will approve it. He puts it on the plan but complains. We finalize the floor plan in November.
We then started to redo the roof. I told him that I wanted a specific roof style. He drew this but here's the catch the city maximum height for the roof is 18' he made it to 20'. I didn't know this so I approved the roof and then I went to the city in December to submit the plans. This time I went by myself because I couldn't trust him anymore. I went to a different planner and left the plans for them. A week later the planner calls me and was like the setback is fine, but the roof is a problem. THE SETBACK WAS FINE! IT WAS APPROVED! I met with the planner and she was like why is the roof like this. I was like I didn't know of this. She was like fix the roof and everything will be good to go.
Now we are into January. I call the drafter and I was like the roof is too high and he was like you wanted it like that...I told him I wanted the style, but not the height. He was like I knew this wasn't going to work so that's why he drew a different roof design(I showed this design to the planner as an alternative she was disgusted by it the design was one side of the house with two side gables) he was like yeah that's why my design was better I told him I showed it to her and she didn't like it. For the roof that I wanted the planner told me to just lower the roof and it would work. How would you lower it? Just lower the angle and the pitch and it would make the height lower. Well he was dumb and didn't know this. He told me I think this won't work and he said he refuses to send this to his structural engineer. I told him that give me the draft of it and I will give it to the planner. She approved it. I sent it back to him.
He emails me a few days ago and complains about all the changes I made and blames me for the roofing and changes. He says that he drew 15 floor plans for me. If anyone looks at these so called 15 floor plans there is nothing different between them. The first one he sent me was so simple like a blank paper. No island. Nothing. On these floor plans maybe a few difference would be the location or the kitchen bathroom or doors or windows. I told all of the changes at once but every time he goes to the computer he forgets and he ends up having to go back over and over again which caused the 15 floor plans. We were up to about floor plan 8 for the first finalize until we had to do it over again because of the garage thing. And all these plans were redone because there were requirements from the city. Each time he hears something we need to change everything.
He asking $1300 more money for the mechanical and electrical engineer because he has to rework the plans. They only need to be reworked because the last time he submitted was about the garage thing. I told him that I'm not gonna pay him. His demands are crazy. I don't know what is gonna happen but he said that he needs to talk to his structural engineer about the roofing because he thinks it's too heavy. In the contract I still have $1000 left and that is when plans are approved by the city everything then that's when I pay him. If he doesn't finish it he's gonna lose $1000...try to get $1300 but gonna lose it all if he refuses to finish the plans.
I noticed that this is the worse place to post this kind of thing. It seems more of like a hub for architects then a place about home improvement.
Even taking on an additional $1300 to the original $2800 is still dirt cheap and like other pointed out above, you got what you paid for.
Don't hire chumps who value their time and abilities at minimum wage rates. Cut your losses and hire an architect to start over. Don't cut corners with cheap unskilled draftsmen.
inhell - my first post on this thread pointed out your mistake but you followed it with a very very long repeat of your initial post, which proves my second point, you are your own worst enemy. how much time are you spending calling and ranting? HIRE AN ARCHITECT and pony up the fee and stay out od the way.
Do it yourself, its a home improvement/addition. I don't exactly understand why people hire others to "design" when all they have up to offer is bottom barrel sums of money, should have used the 2.4k buying a nice window or something.
I noticed that this is the worse place to post this kind of thing. It seems more of like a hub for architects then a place about home improvement.
I had exactly the same thought. But maybe if you posted some pictures we'd have a better idea what you're talking about.
"what is this place - some kinda hub for architects?"
archinect new name - archihub.
Go onto here, they'll help you >
http://civilengineersforum.com/questions/
This thread just made my week.
OP: As noted above, paragraphs and punctuation are good things. You probably heard that in the eighth grade, and it's still true.
Also, if you are old enough to own a house, you are old enough not to make every fifth word "like", particularly when you are writing and not speaking extemporaneously. If you want credibility, it's really like important to like you know like sound like a like valley girl, I mean it's sounds so like imaturrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre.
This is why I don't lift my pen for anything smaller than 8k.
He wanted lobster for the price of hotdogs. Typical cheapskate craigslist client meets crappy drafter...a match made in heaven
Regarding the necessity for the structural engineer: that is not your drafter/designer's fault, and not something he could have known definitively from the city before he had a design to present to them. It is at the discretion of the building official to require an engineer's involvement, based on the complexity of the project. The building official generally does not make that determination until after he receives preliminary drawings.
As for the roof issue: planners are not architects or structural engineers. The planner approves of that change merely because it meets the city's height requirement - but that's no guarantee of its constructability. Why does your designer think it "won't work"? You seem to think his concerns are only aesthetic, but have you asked whether he has concerns about the feasibility of construction, the structural integrity, ventilation, the materials, etc.? Examples: some roofing materials cannot be used on slopes below a certain threshold; some low roof configurations are difficult to properly vent or insulate; etc. Just because it can be drawn doesn't mean it should be built.
It's hard to say whether the "small" changes you're asking for at this point are worth what he's charging or not. Your list of doors, windows, kitchen island, zoning-related garage changes, roof changes, etc. is not a small list, and some of the items do need to be coordinated with consultants. Consider that if you had decided to work with a stock plan company instead and buy a plan for your addition, they typically charge $50 to $100 for every single individual change to every sheet, so your list in that scenario would far exceed $1300 (not to mention that the cost to purchase the stock plan would have been more in the first place than your designer's entire bill to date). I understand that you think some of these changes are your designer's fault and should be at his expense - but can you substantiate that? Zoning, for example, is interpreted by individual officials and it may well be true that the person with whom the designer originally spoke told him that the garage requirement would not apply, while someone else later determined the opposite. Why would you expect the designer to foot the bill for changes necessitated by that scenario? And what does your contract say, if anything, about the number of schemes that were to be provided for the original fee?
Unless your contract specifically states otherwise you're well within your rights to terminate this designer's services at any time and for any reason (but check your contract regarding procedures, notice, etc.). You probably should have done that way back when it took him 4 months to get you an initial schematic. But at this point if you terminate him before you get a building permit you're probably going to have to hire someone else to draw new plans. Only you can say if that's worth it.
You really should post some of the 15 floor plans to the thread...
BTW - Rick B would cream his shorts for $2800. That would buy a ton of Doritos!
Inhellwiththisarchitect
I get that you are disappointed by the incompetency of the guy you worked with. It seems reasonable to expect some modicum of professionalism, whoever he may be.
But, as a point of reference for the fee involved for me to provide the service you expect (I can't speak for others here), my fee would be 8-10x the numbers you are quoting including the add services he's asking for. And I am not exorbitantly expensive in my market.
I dunno, chalk it up to lesson learned about the value of professional help. Good luck moving forward!
re: garage expansion. yes, some jurisdictions require off street parking based on bedroom count; this can be sometimes listed as garage space.
Call the bedroom a den and no garage required. Add the closet later. I think Balkins could provide a good set of documents for the closet plus he will field verify all existing conditions and dimensions to 1/32".
^ using drones
Oh yes, that's right! HA!
how would you like to spend a year with a client that kept telling you that you suck at drafting and you can't design a roof because you didn't even include an island in the kitchen?
for $2800, my patience would wear thin pretty quick too.
if you want the guy to start caring about you, make it worth his time. either start caring about what he has to say, or pay him enough to start caring about what's probably a pretty shitty project to begin with.
I don't have anything to do with this project. Personally, I am not interested. Not for this crap which I would have to go through a bit of work of ascertaining the local requirements for what they are.
I don't like getting involved on a project with clients after they had a bad working relationship with another designer/drafter/architect/etc. especially after an already excessively low pay for the work involved. Why? The client would want me to do it for nothing or less than it cost to make the prints of the building plans at a print shop. No thank you.
^ Reminding us of the niche market for the architect as fixer: the 2nd round, picking up the pieces after a neophyte client and drafter/designer/contractor have reached an impasse (and maybe come to blows).
T+M rates apply, no ceiling.
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