Archinect
anchor

How to be a young architect

curtkram

Did you design a $100 trillion house?  Are you sure you can speak directly to the experience of the complexity of designing a $100 trillion house?

Feb 2, 16 8:09 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Maybe if he did a regular house with diamonds for aggregate.  

Feb 2, 16 8:29 pm  · 
 · 

Rick perhaps you can, but you won't.  You absolutely never do one single thing you say you "can" or "could" or "will" do.  Which reminds me:  January is up - where is that game you said you were going to write by the 31st?  

I sure won't be going deliberately out of my way to violate the licensing laws.

I was going to do that if the person I was challenging was going to compete in the same challenge. Sorry but I'm not racing to get it done by that date if I am the only one doing the challenge. Since no one else is going to take on the challenge, there's no motivation... no competition or race.

However, I am nonetheless working on such a project with a more expanded scope for a particular platform. I already have the working code for cartridge based autostart cartridge. I am working through supporting multiple devices and platforms. 

Racing for January 31 without any competitors to release something without a price tag or even a monetary reward is no incentive. However, take the time to actually produce a commercial grade program that people are willing to pay money for is more desirable and racing for January 31 won't produce anything that I can really get any money for.

Since the content needed to produce the work takes more time. There is more to the work involved. I have already have work going on multiple fronts. Online store platform. VAT MOSS registration. VAT regulations research. That's just some of the business side of things being prepped. 

Then there is the software project which requires significant graphics work, music & sound effects works, the coding work, etc. 

Feb 2, 16 8:37 pm  · 
 · 

curtkram,

What client would pay me to design one. Sure, use a lot of diamonds, gold, silver, platinum, etc. Make it large and be very wasteful in using lots and lots of concrete (yes, with diamond in the aggregates and LOTS of it) and other building materials. 

Sure, could be designed but why on earth would I design such an irrational waste of money and overly complicate it like a labyrinth. You have to end up asking, why? No direct experience actually doing it because none of us are deliberately going to design such for a client because none of them have that kind of money. I'm sure we both have the skills to design such but it would be flat out ridonculous. (when ridiculous isn't enough that we have to use a made up word).

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ridonculous

I'm sure you haven't done so but the law doesn't prohibit such but it would not be something either of us in our right minds would ever do such a project.

Feb 2, 16 8:44 pm  · 
 · 
JBeaumont

So once again:  you never do one single thing you say you're going to do.  This game you're supposedly currently working on will be no exception.  And you're trying to establish credibility with the premise that you "can" design a trillion dollar house, when in fact you have not designed any house of any size or dollar amount ever.

Do you do this on other professions' websites?  Are you on some neurosurgery site right now dispensing technical advice and defending its credibility with "I could do a brain transplant if I wanted to"?

Feb 2, 16 8:45 pm  · 
 · 

JBeaumont,

Do you do this on other professions' websites?  Are you on some neurosurgery site right now dispensing technical advice and defending its credibility with "I could do a brain transplant if I wanted to"?

No. No.

Feb 2, 16 8:48 pm  · 
 · 
null pointer

Rick once designed a 100 trillion house. It had a cellar to the center of the earth.

BItch can't build that.

 

 

Also, Shuellmi, the discipline list you just posted up is totally wrong. That's all I have to say on that without outing myself.

 

Laterssssss.

Feb 2, 16 8:49 pm  · 
 · 

This game you're supposedly currently working on will be no exception. 

We'll see. Don't hold your breath until then because you can only do that for maybe 3-5 minutes if your good but even a day and you be dead.

Feb 2, 16 8:49 pm  · 
 · 

consultants - just because you have them doesn't mean that you don't need to know anything.

The point that you have consultants is to fill the gaps where you are weak on otherwise, you'd be doing it yourself. I do agree you should know the basics of it enough.

Feb 2, 16 8:53 pm  · 
 · 
3tk

geo - a bit of everything.  they're getting better and better, but rarely are they run appropriately to maintain efficiency.  In most cases it's smart to have supplemental feed.

Feb 2, 16 9:05 pm  · 
 · 
shellarchitect

thanks 3tk - will relay the info

null - my list is totally wrong? didn't put much thought into it so that doesn't hurt my feelings but can you out yourself a little?

Feb 3, 16 9:06 am  · 
 · 
JLC-1

shuellmi, so far I've attended 2 explanatory meetings so I can be slightly wrong; geothermal works best with radiant floors, and it's not your typical 9" - 12" OC, but 6" OC. Depending on the flooring, the transmittance varies a lot and It doesn't heat fast enough if you play with the thermostat, so it's better to leave your tsat alone. And it does need a supplemental air blow heating, but this is also using the heat from the wells. It also has a backup tank with electric strip heating in case the thermal heat pump fails. It's a complicated installation, but according to the engineer, once it's working you just forget it.

Has your friend called anybody with knowledge of the system? 

Feb 3, 16 9:52 am  · 
 · 
JeromeS

I use "geothermal" in my home.  As we have no steam or super-heated water coming out of the ground in the Mid-Atlantic, its really its an open-loop, ground source heat pump, and its air distributed.  It awesome!

I eliminated 550-600 gallons of fuel oil and reduced my electric consumption by 50 KwH, in the first year.

Feb 3, 16 10:20 am  · 
 · 
null pointer

shuellmi, nvm you're right. I misread your response to DICKFUCkINGBALKINS

Feb 3, 16 2:48 pm  · 
 · 

differences:

construction methods - big steel/concrete vs. wood sticks

professional contractors are generally bright guys vs idiots running a business out of their truck.

materials - expensive and complicated wall sections both on the exterior and interior.  Generally when the budgets get big owners don't want a giant EIFS box, the facades are pretty interesting and materials correlate to that investment.

consultants - just because you have them doesn't mean that you don't need to know anything.

building codes - residential is comparatively simple, there is a reason code consultant exist.

zoning - same thing

life safety - same thing again, requirements for all of these get more stringent as buildings get taller, have more occupants, and if they have "helpless" occupants.  Again, for most small buildings none of these are issues to even worry about.

 

That's a generalization. Then again, I don't recall who this was directed at in the first place.  

Construction  methods: Where I live, there isn't a legal restriction on materials I can use to design a house. I can use any building material INCLUDING BIG HUGE STEEL BOX GIRDERS and Trusses and massive reinforced concrete that can survive a direct hit by an atomic bomb or nuclear bomb. When designing for other people, the cost of the material is excessive for a small footprint building. Glulams becomes cost effective with you have long spans. Then in that situation its kind of boils down to pound per sq. ft. and tributary load capacity.  At some point in span, that glulam is would have about the same load per sq.ft. as a smaller beam at shorter spans, drywall, etc.. The saving  would come in removal of load bearing stud walls and posts/columns. Yeah, an open interior is pretty inexpensive interior space.

Contractors (range of professionalism): There are good ones. There are shady ones. They are all over the place.

materials - Light metal stud walls... okay. Detail complexity of wall sections can be all over the place for any building. So can the building materials used can be all over the place when it comes to cost. You made me laugh on that EIFS crap. I don't use EIFS and even then, EIFS in my area requires proper detailing like rainscreen detailing. There's reasons for that.

consultants... I already commented on this.

building codes - yeah. I can go prescriptive IRC (ORSC), prescriptive IBC (OSSC) and non-prescriptive. What's your point?  Yeah, you can have building code consultants but that's hard cash going out to someone else at a profit to them. They are in business.. too!

zoning..... okay. What's your point?

life safety: No real criticism there. While that is true and those risks are there. But you have a prescriptive code requirement that most architects follows, anyway. Design by the prescriptive code... and you solve a lot of that. When you go beyond that, you aren't doing the heavy work. That's the engineering consultants solving a lot of that. Anyone can say, make sure the egress are wide enough to mitigate congestion of movement, use thick reinforced concrete walls and non-combustible stair systems and make specifications for elevators with redundant power supply. The elevator system is designed by elevator consultants/engineers/manufacturer. It doesn't take much intelligence to specify. Then it is all these other people figuring out how to actually make it work. When was the last time you designed the electric motors and braking systems of an elevator or the hoist cable or the user input panel and the electronics within it? I bet you probably haven't done that in your entire life. It doesn't matter and unnecessary. If the code says, an elevator is required and so many of them, I have to design with that in mind. It isn't something that hard to figure out. The architectural plan and design is the easy shit. The hard shit is the engineering which most architects are woefully unqualified to do. It isn't like you design the floor truss or i-joists. You just specify from a manufacturers tables much like a load/span table. The manufacturers produces that information. I've worked with assembly use and had experience associated with academic buildings and familiarity with building code requirements, ADA, etc.  associated with academic buildings. There is healthcare which have there own multiple layers of regulations, policies, etc. 

So do child care facilities. You have all these basic stuff that serves in defining the architectural program.

Feb 3, 16 4:05 pm  · 
 · 

^______ Bottom line: Don't act like you're a special snow flake. Yes, I understand there is additional minimum requirements for a highrise hospital (for example). Behind all the fancy medical equipment, the building (which is what you are designing not the medical equipment) is still basically a building not all that much different.

Yes, the structural systems has to be adjusted to support the load. Basically, a 10-30 story building will use bigger steel columns and/or beams, the walls are probably a moment frame reinforced concrete or steel frame, etc. You may or will have shear wall detailing to resist wind and seismic. This is something you would work with a structural engineer and they do the heavy lifting there. Since, all that is meaningless if you specify substandard bolts or other fastening because the structural system is only as good as the weakest part.

We have the building codes that flat out guides you on the requirements for the such a project. You have additional requirements from outside the building codes and zoning regulations that you may need to comply with that further comes into play... some of it that may further raise the minimum standard.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the requirements. If I had to do such a project, that is exactly what I would be looking at in part of the design planning. There would be consulting with the consultants as needed.

Feb 3, 16 4:23 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Balkins, how many 10-30 storey buildings have you worked on?

Feb 3, 16 4:26 pm  · 
 · 

If you know the engineering science, you can design any building. BTW: Who gives a shit about how many if any. Clients are clients and they are necessarily different than clients are for a low-rise project.  Before getting too deep in designing.... I would expect a geotech report to have been prepared to indicate the soil condition, soil bearing, etc. It will effect foundation system design.

At 30 stories, you'll likely be using a steel frame building and then it would come down to sizing the steel members, use of cross bracing and so forth. The same way you engineer structural load on a house.... you start at the top of the building and calculate the load down to the footing/piles. Then you have the wind and seismic lateral loads to calculate as well.

I don't design these structures for clients because I am not going out of my way to violate architectural licensing laws because I would be caught up with the court system for too much time for it. Even if I were to allowed to design such a structure in some countries, I am not based there so it is hard to grab such a project as there are so few of them. Those projects are likely not going to commission a sole-proprietor. They will seek firms with huge staff to produce floor plans and elevations, etc. QUICKLY.

I'm willing to do this in a hypothetical scenario where it is clear that it won't actually be used and built from the plans if there was a good financial incentive or do it in connection with a licensed architect on a real project. I'm not in business to outright violate the licensing laws in the U.S.

The types of structural systems, the materials used are probably pretty straight forward. I'm not talking EIFS while I won't rule out it from any possible material use options as it is just a material/facade system. 

Feb 3, 16 5:05 pm  · 
 · 
null pointer

a 10-30 story structure with steel columns rather than reinforced concrete?

Bitch you just lost the game. Instantly.

Feb 3, 16 5:45 pm  · 
 · 
JBeaumont

Richard I see that you're a member of the 2030 commitment.  Making that commitment is voluntary, but once you put your firm on the list you're agreeing to share information about your projects with other architects and the general public, including their size, type, general location (not street address or client name), construction type, envelope materials, energy consumption, etc.   You're supposed to be filling out forms for ALL of your projects every year - so where are they?  You need to stop all of this beating around the bush when others ask you about your work, and provide the information requested.

Feb 3, 16 7:59 pm  · 
 · 
shellarchitect

Rick, my original comment was directed towards the original topic of discussion, learning architecture and the general diff. between large and small firms. Fact is there is generally very little overlap. I agree with jlc that very large homes rival the complexity of large projects, but in general, SFH's are simple structures, that is a fact that is hard to argue. If you were to spend half a career designing houses and then decide to look for a job at a major firm (Smith Group or rossetti types) you just won't get anywhere because you don't know anything about larger projects. My comments were directed towards young architectural professionals who may benefit from my advice since in my roughly 10 prof years I've worked on a lot of very large projects and just recently switched to generally small stuff. I think it's very easy to be unaware of what you don't know. Since as far as I know you've never worked in a firm at all this may be one of those threads where your input is of comedic value only. I really don't feel like refuting ask your comments on my phone, so I'll cherry pick a couple easy ones..... Structures- maybe you know more than me on this, I wouldn't design much of any structure. Aground me even if you are legally allowed to design a home under 3500 sq ft the code officials can require a stamp if the design is complex enough. Basically anything other than traditional stick framing. Maybe you can design done fancy glulsm beams out giant steel but not around here. Building codes- this is an area where you are really out of your element. A couple weeks ago I was looking at average salaries for code consultants, around 90k.... Why do you think they command that salary? It's not because the codes are always super simple and easy... I'm no specisl as snowflake, it's about exposure to project types, not something you can pick up in a book over lunch. In a large firm people become specialized so it can take much longer to be exposed to all facets of a job

Feb 3, 16 9:02 pm  · 
 · 
shellarchitect

Thanks for the country's regarding geo thermal, my buddy had only had the house a couple months, will have to ask him more about his system. Also, I hope my post above looks better than I does on my screen. Not sure what happened to the paragraphs

Feb 3, 16 9:08 pm  · 
 · 
SpontaneousCombustion

Rick will never believe that there is any scenario in which he is "out of his element".  He has been playing structural engineer for many years now on the internet - isn't that enough to qualify him to give advice on the challenges of designing a 30-story building?

He's quite prolific and inventive in his imaginary engineering career.  Want more free knowledge (worth every penny)?  Here's a thread where he instructs real engineers on the subject of field fabricated glue-lams:  http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/forum/residential-structural-code/residential-structural-codes/1726-built-up-vs-dimensioned-headers-~-irc

Feb 3, 16 9:34 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Gotta agree with shellumi.  Not even considering architecting...Large projects are completely different in the way you do business...

Feb 3, 16 10:01 pm  · 
 · 
shellarchitect

got out an actual computer to read the link and almost spilled whiskey on the keyboard - that was some funny stuff.  

I like the header as well "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance"

Feb 3, 16 10:26 pm  · 
 · 

Shuellmi,

I agree with you then from a general difference from a typical large projects and small projects. When it comes to pre-manufactured building components, they are pre-engineered and have load tables made by the manufacturers according to various industry standards. 

For example, I would need to design glulams themselves. I just select the size glulam that meets the requirements. For example: I can determine what size solid hewn beam (at #2 grade) dimensions is required and often can just select the size Glulam that is equal to or greater than the solid hewn (at #2 grade) cross section dimensions. Almost every case, the Glulam would be better than that. It just means the beam is more than sufficient since glulams are usually made from wood components that are #1 or better grade. Then if I need to tweak the sizing down (value engineering approach), I can look at available load-span tables to find the suitable size. I may use the minimum size or use the next size up on both cross-section or whatever. 

Steel beams can be calculated by determining required size using a few calcs to determine cross-section requirements and the span. It can be basic load/span. There is usually plenty of room to decide precise spans, dimension of components, etc.

Whether we are dealing with an elaborate small building or a large building. There is many variables in projects which we both agree can make a difference in the project difficulty.

 If you were to spend half a career designing houses and then decide to look for a job at a major firm (Smith Group or rossetti types) you just won't get anywhere because you don't know anything about larger projects.

That's a generality statement that may or may not be true. While, I may work with projects that are typically small, it doesn't necessarily mean I don't know anything about large projects. The engineering science is the same. The same code books that covers residential also large projects, too! You don't think I have read the IBC?

In my state, the required, SFRs of any size is exempt under both architecture and engineer's law. As for the building official requiring a stamp. I'll tell you this much, the B.O.s we had in recent years would even require an Architect to have certain drawings prepared or stamped by an engineer. In other words, expect to see an engineer's stamp if it is that complicated. There's a point where you would have engineers whether or not you are licensed as an architect.

Yeah, you mention a $90,000 salary. Do the math, that's your hard cash. You can't make that much money out of residential clients. Proves another point, large projects are better paid for the time you spend. You make more money per hour of labor designing a large project than a small project. On a large project, having a building code professional hired or as a consultant is probably justifiable in the cost scheme in a already large division of labor you find in those 20+ member project teams. (Yeah, they can be a lot more than 20 member project teams). On a typical house even those highly complex ones that are very non-prescriptive, I would have a very difficult time making even close to that amount on a billed hourly rate. I would estimate that you are talking $45/hour direct labor not to mention the benefits package. I'd be lucky to get $50/hr Billed hourly rate due to supply & demand in the residential projects so there is a very low price ceiling that the competition environment makes very difficult to do design projects that are elaborate. It is more profitable to stick with prescriptive code because clients are not likely to pay more for non-prescriptive code. I understand the forces behind the general assumptions. It isn't necessarily because we want to design bland, EIFS / etc. houses. 

Building codes are amended in each locality so its just part of each project that it would be part of the duties of the job to research the building codes as they are amended and adopted and enforced in the locality. I won't go into that. We both agree of the variability of the code but it doesn't matter. If you do a project in a locale, you look at the codes that is adopted as it is adopted in a locale. The only building code person I really care to talk to on projects on the smaller level IS the building official of the locale. While I do look at the codes as adopted and only challenge the B.O. or their inspectors if they are off on their own building codes. Even then, it is an art of picking the right battles. Sometimes, it isn't worth it. Just keep in mind that most of what is out there can be figured out over time. Sure not over a single lunch period but this isn't the pre-internet days. Look, you talk about your experiences in projects all the time. Internet has been publicly available for over 20 years. This means the way architectural practices are like are well documented on the internet by none other than.............. (drumroll please)........ yourselves.

As for books over lunch... well, there are books but there are also other mediums for this information.

PS: Regarding smart phones use - Why do you think they invented keyboards and real desktop or laptop computers?

Feb 3, 16 10:55 pm  · 
 · 
threadkilla

RickB-OR is always casually demonstrating how NOT to be a young architect

Feb 3, 16 11:01 pm  · 
 · 

Shuellmi,

Yeah, if I recall, it was all just a good debate. Of course, specifying a glu-laminated built-up vs. a pre-engineered glulam would probably make no sense in practice. All the work might in fact make that built-up beam more expensive than the regular glu-lam. Most of the manufacturers have their own engineers and stamped drawings like the trusses. It becomes my problem from the point that the pre-engineered component is connected to my building's walls (in the drawings & specifications of course).

Feb 3, 16 11:11 pm  · 
 · 

Actually, it is more than that. It is my problem and responsibility as the building designer at the point of integrated pre-engineered components into my design. It becomes my problem to integrate the truss, glulam, etc. into the whole building design solution. 

Feb 3, 16 11:20 pm  · 
 · 

threadkilla,

At least I design the projects not some insurance company.

Feb 3, 16 11:32 pm  · 
 · 
3tk

shuellmi: two common issues i've seen based on system type.  in open loop the equipment can get corroded from the metals in the source water; in closed loop the system needs to run all year long not overheat the ground (which sounds ridiculous, but is a problem that accrues over time).  my current projects have both solar and geo (and gas for that matter).

Feb 4, 16 12:12 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

This was great.

Ricky, you write like you've never designed a god-damn thing. Which makes a great deal of sense because, well, as we all know here, that's probably true.

3tk, I've heard the opposite is also true where you can permanently freeze the ground. I've yet to see an example of this.

Feb 4, 16 2:59 pm  · 
 · 

Non Sequitur,

I was being sarcastic. Some architects do seem to design as if their insurance companies are the ones making the decisions.

Feb 4, 16 3:43 pm  · 
 · 
JeromeS

I've run my open-loop system continuously, for 10-years.  Its performed like a champ, but I also think my water is pretty good...

Feb 4, 16 4:34 pm  · 
 · 

Block this user


Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?

Archinect


This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.

  • ×Search in: