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Who/how to cold call?

e909

I know that my background makes me an attractive employee in an alt sense (Although Playgirl will never call me for a shoot.).

However, first predicament: Posted jobs never fit me.

Second (related) predicament: Most of their job ads are "antagonistic" in tone: "NO CALLS (please)." These ads make the employers unattractive, but worse, the ads block out any employee who doesn't fit the PRESUMED qualifications.

Similarly... Third predicament: I don't consider myself a wild hedonist, but in-person so many LA's seem stressed. Sour. Obviously, solid interviews will help me filter out those employers. :-)

Fourth predicament: Finding adequate detail info about firms is difficult, so I'm pretty much left to target all who design the categories of projects in which I'm interested. These firms vary a lot in size. (See specific question below)

Conclusion: I'll have to cold call employers who HAVEN'T posted ads. And when I cold call a company, the recep. or whoever employee will answer.

So, a specific question: Who do I ask to speak to? I think I should ask to speak to the "Lead Designer". "Lead Designer" seems the title easiest for a firm of any size to translate to their appropriate 'personnelese'.



(I hope this post isn't a duplicate, because I thought I'd posted this already, but can't find indications the post succeeded.)

 
Feb 17, 05 2:20 pm

I generally ask for the "Director of Human Resources". Even if they don't HAVE a director of Human Resources, they will know that you're looking for the person responsible for hiring and direct your call accordingly.

Feb 17, 05 3:01 pm  · 
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larslarson

whenever i've cold-called i've basically just said my name,
asked if they're hiring...regardless of their answer i ask
them whom i should send my resume/work examples to.

personally i ignore website info..because it's rarely current
and if you feel you're qualified you may get an interview
anyway cause most firms are always looking for good people.
i just make a list of the firms i like...call to see if there's any
kind of urgency to sending info...then send info to the firms
i want to be at...

Feb 17, 05 3:36 pm  · 
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Aluminate

Please don't feel antagonized by ads that say "no calls please."
We always use this in our ads. This is mainly because when we don't we get a lot of phone calls from people who want us to outsource to them - often in China, India, etc. And we also get a lot of calls from recruiters/headhunters that want us to contract with them. I don't weed people out based on not exactly fitting our preconceived idea of the ideal candidate. But, if I'm advertising a position for an intern or designer or whatever then I want someone in-house and don't have time to deal with all this outsourcing stuff. Basically placing ads with phone numbers is risky because you get a lot of junk responses that amount to telemarketing.

Also, I'd rather NOT sound stressed on the phone. So if you email or fax, or whatever we've asked you to do, then we can contact you when we've had a chance to read over your materials and we have some time.
Personally I wouldn't weed out firms that sound stressed. It doesn't automaticlaly mean "bad firm", and it usually does mean "busy firm" - which is a good thing.
Remember that 75% of all US firms have fewer than 6 people and no receptionist or human resources person - so the person answering the phone is usually going to be someone who is in the middle of a project.

If you're cold calling, what I'd advise is stating to whomever answers that you'd like to mail (or fax, or email) your resume and would like the name of the person to whom to direct it, and the address (or fax number, or whatever.) Don't push to speak to someone immediately. If they're desperately hiring then you'll probably be transferred to someone in charge of hiring. Otherwise they'll give you the info to send your materials.

I wouldn't ask for the "lead designer." This isn't a term used much. It may give the person answering the phone the idea that you're a product rep trying to sneak past them. Also, in a firm that has enough of a hierarchy to have a "lead designer" this person probably is NOT the front line in the hiring process.

Good luck.

Feb 17, 05 4:06 pm  · 
 · 
truth

perfectly put aluminate...

Feb 17, 05 4:27 pm  · 
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Suture

i find that the cardboard signage works wonders:

WILL CADD FOR FOOD

Feb 17, 05 6:20 pm  · 
 · 
e

mine would say "will cadd for alcohol."

Feb 17, 05 6:26 pm  · 
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vado retro

what is it with firms never putting any information about themselves in a newspaper ad. often there is not even a name of a firm just a fax number. makes it a little difficult to do any research on the firm and, god forbid, perhaps learn something about their work. alcohol turns me into a cad.

Feb 17, 05 6:39 pm  · 
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chupacabra

Tell people who work in the field where your interested in working...they may hav a connection with someone who works there...networking is one of the best ways to get feet in the door and you never know who knows who.

Feb 17, 05 9:12 pm  · 
 · 
e909

larslarson
i ignore website info..because it's rarely current
Yeah, so many sites are somehow messed, and firms must realize deficient websites are common. So, I'd better be assertive about requesting lists of their accomplishments from interviewers (I'll need the list before the interview to give me time to prepare for a useful interview). The interviewers will almost certainly have a list the firm uses for "qualifications", and can quickly jot down recent projects and other details that might be appropriate for me.

i just make a list of the firms i like...

There's a bit of a problem there for me. I don't see much design that's hot. And regarding those firms who've done some things I "like" ("like" includes multiple provisos) ... my own designs would look quite different from theirs, so possibly incompatible within the firm. OTOH, for the first few years, design differences are mostly irrelevant since I'd be assisting. And later, if the firm decided they objected to my design tendencies, I'd move on.

I probably should
1 target resumes toward firms by type of work or clients I prefer. (commercial or residential or etc).
2 use interviews to check whether their designs seem incompetent (technically botched, or don't serve the users)
or whether work environment is abusive (not so easy to detect during an interview),
or not enough workspace to scatter drawings :-)
or... what other pitfalls, and positives/bonuses?

call to see if there's any kind of urgency to sending info...then send info to the firms i want to be at...
Yeah, try to sense if they 'emote' a sense of urgency. Although they might camouflage this to avoid seeming desperate, a disadvantage to them during pay negotiation phase.

Feb 21, 05 4:59 am  · 
 · 
e909

correction, i omitted italics formatting in last paragraph.
call to see if there's any kind of urgency to sending info...then send info to the firms i want to be at...

Feb 21, 05 5:02 am  · 
 · 
e909
jasoncross
Tell people who work in the field where your interested in working


In my case, these people are former coworkers. I got two 'leads', but one was way off my intended career path, and the other seemed not the best.

I haven't noticed much opportunity for this type of marketing when talking to people unassociated with LA, but have tried this a few times in the last few years . I get a blank response. The person deosn't seem uncomfortable, but the topic i've tried to introduce doesn't 'stick'.

Feb 21, 05 5:10 am  · 
 · 
e909
Aluminate
placing ads with phone numbers is risky because you get a lot of junk responses that amount to telemarketing.


Yeah, employers on craigslist use prefab tele-harassment warnings in their ads:
"Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
Reposting this message elsewhere is NOT OK."

Personally I wouldn't weed out firms that sound stressed. It doesn't automaticlaly mean "bad firm", and it usually does mean "busy firm" - which is a good thing.

And over-worked firms might be very willing to hire... but these terribly stressed people seem permanently in an unhappy state. I can describe to you with only words how they seem. I doubt they're expecting to ever be 'rescued'.

If I had to choose between two accomplished types,
the stressed bitter type or
the happily egotistical gadfly type,
I'd probably try the latter. I'm pretty tolerant of egotists when they have good reason for their egotism. (and aren't abusive @88holes)

75% of all US firms have fewer than 6 people and no receptionist or human resources person - so the person answering the phone is usually going to be someone who is in the middle of a project.

Yeah, I thoroughly expect that. Looking at LA firm listings, I get the sense that many are one-man/woman offices.

to whomever answers that you'd like to mail (or fax, or email) your resume and would like the name of the person to whom to direct it, and the address (or fax number, or whatever.) And the name of your guardian saint, so I'll know who to pray to!

Ok, it looks like I'll rely on quantity of targets as do tele-harassers. But tele-harassing is not my career. :-)

And thanks for a couple of good semi-subtle reasons to avoid asking to "speak to the lead designer". (I should have realized the tele-harasser reason. I foretell that some people who answer my cold-calls will suspect that I may be a harasser.)

Feb 22, 05 4:08 am  · 
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e909
vado retro,
firms never putting any information about themselves in a newspaper ad. often there is not even a name of a firm just a fax number.


Aren't those ads usually posted by agencies? Some of the agencies confess who they are, but many of the "anonymous" ads still resemble agency ads.

--
Thanks to all for response. I would have got back to the thread sooner, but I received a really 'emoteful' call from Playgirl that 'emoted' a highly 'emoted' sense of urgency (No, actually I was sick awhile.)

Feb 22, 05 4:10 am  · 
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Bloopox

Some vague newspaper ads are probably posted by agencies. Some though are just small firms trying to afford to post an ad in a large paper where it will get the most response. The nearest major metropolitan newspaper to us charges $58 and up per line per day, with a minimum of 7 days straight or 6 continuous Sundays. We haven't figured out yet how to word a 1-line ad, but 2 is usually the best we can afford to run for weeks at a time. Especially when advertising for someone entry level it is hard to justify paying almost a week of that person's salary just for a week's worth of advertising.

Feb 22, 05 2:49 pm  · 
 · 
e909

how much to advertise a position on the arch-oriented listing sites?

for example :-)
http://archinect.com/jobs/post.php
There is currently no charge for employers seeking new employees. Job postings will be live for 90 days, and may be removed or edited by request via email

$100 fee, we will offer premium exposure of your job posting ...


We require a $20 fee for each posting by recruiters or third party agencies.


------------
asla, in the case of LA job listings:
JOB LISTING RATES:
ASLA members - $280 for a one month listing
Non-members - $560 for a one month listing

Feb 24, 05 6:50 am  · 
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Bloopox

Yep, I'm aware of the archinect job board. My firm has posted jobs there in the past. But we still find ourselves having to advertise in newspapers. One problem with archinect postings (and other internet forums) is that most of the responses we get are not local - in fact more than half are international. When trying to fill an immediate opening we would much rather attract candidates who have the ability and intention of interviewing with us quickly. Thus the newspaper ads. As far as I can tell most firms advertise simultaneously in print and online. But print ads by necessity must be brief - and therefore often vague.

One thing I'd suggest to anyone who is job hunting nationwide or internationally: make sure you mention early in your cover letter whether you're available to travel for interviews, whether you're available to work immediately (and if not then when), whether you have some tie to the geographic area to which you're applying, etc. Otherwise your resume is likely to be de-prioritized just based on the idea that it's probably going to take too long to interview and hire you. It also may appear that you're applying sort of scatter-shot everywhere.

Another thing: make sure you've checked a map and know where the firm's city is. We have gotten cover letters mentioning that the applicant has "always dreamed of working in the New York City area" when we're hundreds of miles from NYC. We've phoned people who tell us that they're not planning to relocate - that they're going to commute to work - and seem to have not clue that we're 3 1/2 hours away from them...

Feb 24, 05 11:36 am  · 
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