I'm really having some problems, well, my wife and I are, with our five year old. There are times when he's just begging for a pop, and we kind of buckle and let him have one or two throughout the week. But there have been more and more reasons lately to give in with some troubling frequency. The feet stomping, the begging, the throwing of toys and magazines - these things that he does, just literally asking for pops.
If you're like me, and mid-thirties, I'm sure your parents gave you one here and there, they probably didn't want to because "they're just not the things that growing kids need from a good parent," some people say. For growing kids, they can be bad for the teeth, make them not want to eat, and give headaches. I went through it until I figured out that I just didn't want pops anymore, didn't want them as part of my life. And unfortunatly for me, it wasn't until I was 15 that I figured out how to avoid them. Maybe my dad just offered them too much to me, or something like that. It was just how he did things - no control, no reservations, no thinking about health effects and such.
So, to you parents out there, is corporal punishment something you incorporate into the discipline cycle for your children? We can't be the only parents out there who, after a long work day, just feel that a quick spanking, or swat on the cheek is the best way to control a problem with a kid right then and there. Like I said, it was done to me - my dad would come home and step barefoot on some train toy I left out, come storming into my room and backhand me or lay into me with a belt.
But if you do it, how do you get your kids to understand that it's for their benefit? Our son has had his share by now, let me tell you. But we feel that it's working, because lately merely mentioning to him "You're gonna get a pop if you don't straighten up Zeke," seems to do the trick. Who was it that gave birth to his theories of conditioning, Darwin, right? That's how we see it.
It sounds like your child is exhibiting a lack of self-control. It also sounds as if he is modeling his behavior after his parents, which is quite normal.
I think pops and swats are good for the last resort and only when you apply them in a controlled (w/ no anger) manner. If they become too frequent, the kid will adapt and they become useless and you have the potential to cross that oh so fine line.
Five years old is definitely old enough to use reason. It takes a hell of a lot of patience and a consistent perseverance on your part, but the ultimate goal is to have an established respect for your authority. Obviously every child is different, but the best and simplest thing I have found works with my girls is threatening (& following through) to take away toys or activities. Timeouts actually can work too if they are totally deprived of any distractions and made uncomfortable. Spankings are reserved for the ultimate crimes;)
I tell you what, trying to be a good parent is a lot harder than I thought it would be. It’s all to easy to come home stressed and lose your patience in a hurry, but stopping and controlling those moments is what sets many types of parents apart. I try to look at parenting as just another new way to challenge and better yourself (along with someone else).
I don’t watch too much t.v., but I saw a clip of a show (I think on Tuesday night) called Nanny something or another that had a nanny that straightens up some really crazy kids with some really good techniques. You should check it out.
The fact that you are even asking about this probably means your already a great dad.
My son is 5 years old. And what I'm about to tell you is very simple but hard to understand because of the way we have been brought up. I'm 32 years old, and let me tell you I got a bit more than pops. Whatever your form, method, version or understanding of corporal punishment is you shouldn't practice it, just don't do it. And this is why; the moment that you 'pop' your child a few reactions occur. First you are telling the child that when you cannot communicate clearly with a person an option maybe to hit them. Second, your actions maybe degrading his/her self esteem by undervalueing his/her sense of empowerment and right to be heard. Third, if your own parent is poping you, (from the childs point of view) what does this say about the rest of the world? Fourth, hiting may build up anger and resentment towards you and it will only worsen communication and his/her relationship with you; which may or maynot become even worse with time since the child at this age is still forming life long foundamental bonds with you. You get the point. So what do you do with your frustrations towards the child? One thing that is very clear to me is that a child's behavior stems from the parents behavior. In other words he/she has learned from you or your wife how to cope with problems/frustrations. So in order to correct the problem unfortunetly you have to start by examining you and your wife's reactions when things go bad. The other point in order to correct his /her behavior is to create something that is of value to her/him. Let me give you an example which really, really has worked for me and I still use. My wife and I set up a jar in which we put in marbles, when we feel his behavior is up to par, i.e. manners, cleaning, listening, finishing his meals, etc. (you get the point), we add a marble. At the end of the week depending on how many marbles he has, he can either keep saving them or he can choose to have a treat. The meaning of treat to him has alot of value, we have also given the word 'privilige' alot of value. So, him and us agree that there is a common platform which we all agree has value to him and to us. When his good behavior is lacking, than we take away a marble or he looses a privilege. I hope Im making my self clear. As you can see, frustration can be paralyzing but don't pop your kid; he/she is counting on you to bring a solution to the table that helps him/her have a better relationship with you.
One more thing, if the situation absolutley calls for physical punishment, don't use your hand (so no head pops), spank with a mildy stinging rod of some sort. You use your hands to hug, pat, and comfort your child. Don't send mixed messages on what your hand will do.
Bula: hitting with a "mildly stinging rod" is enough to get you arrested. In most jurisdictions you can use your hand to spank a child (not that I would encourage that) but using an object is grounds for charges of abuse/assault.
Aluminate....
Your right...and you can't leave your kids in the car whatsoever either. But do you think a cop will arrest you while you get out to enter a gate code or pump gas...no. Parenting is not that black & white. If you spank with a rod and leave a mark that lasts more than a few minutes, you've gone too far, but I'm talking about a a fully controlled (w/ no anger) slight sting that hurts for a minute and is used as a last resort. This is nothing compared to what legal institutions do to overly hyperactive kids. Personally, my kids have never needed this, but I do understand how it could be necessary with some children.
Pop can be a reward and only that. My parents let me have one pop a week and that was only with dinner on Saturday if I had helped around the house that day. Pop was also a treat if there was a birthday or we went out to eat which was rare. I don't drink pop now, only with booze. It is a horrible thing to drink pop.
...went through this a long time ago, kids almost in teens now, and this is just my opinion, so take of it what you can....
i never believed in the pop psych crap too much and projecting adult themed solutions and outlooks on a toddler is pointless.
look, a 5 year olds mission in life is to test how much he/she can get away with and for how long. the biggest problem my wife and i had, and most parents today with the time constraints of life, is that we wouldn't follow through with our 'rules', and boundries weren't well defined all the time. it's easier after working 12 hours to come home and give in to a childs whimsy because of your own feelings of guilt of being away etc.etc.. But children crave boundries, limits, and yes punishment too. be willing to leave the store in the middle of shopping, or the restaurant, etc... just be sure you follow through with what you say you are going to do. if they discover a weakness they will exploit it to the Nth until it doesn't work anymore.
we implemented the 'no means no' policy, wich is harder than it sounds. you tell them no once, if they ask again, they get one warning, anything after that gets a swat on the butt with an open hand. (you cannot do this in public nowadays, that's why you have to be willing to drop whatever you're doing wherever you are to go home and give the swat) and a swat is just that, one small smack to get their attention and make a point, that's what it is about, making a point that you mean what you say and will follow through. and it should never be done in anger, it should be a matter of factly 'this behavior is not acceptable, you know the rules'. it's not about corporal punishmet/undervalueing/blahblahblah.. you can take away marbles and talk all you want, but what a 5 year old needs to learn is that their actions have consequences that are in their control. and as parents we need to learn that following through with what we say and do is one of the most difficult and important tasks for raising children.
just some thoughts,
every kid is completely different though,
so take what you will.
good luck!
No kids here, but I've been around my nephew since he was born (now 4).
I am with Tectonic. There is no excuse for physical punishment, it's simply demonstrating a lack of patience and resovle on the parents part. I was never hit and my parents are two of my best friends - I truly believe things should be taught through respect and trust.
Did anyone else think that the original poster was talking about soft drinks at first? LOL
But on to business. Many people hit their pets, and the pet becomes afraid of a hand coming close to them - they have been conditioned to expect pain from the hand, not a soft scratch behind the ear, or other hard to reach spots.
The same thing can happen to a child.
I have a friend who, along with his wife, came up with an incredible way of straightening out their three boys. All are close in age and the first was a real monster. The other two followed suit.
What they do with their kids instead of spanking is show them photographs of terrible events from history (Hiroshima aftermath, ravaged clothes on a child all alone, or pictures of famined Ethopian children, or, a Deliverance type of photo of filthy backwoods boys using a tire swing for entertainment) and somehow the kids do an about-face immediatly.
I asked what the trick was, and they said that they had many conversations with their kids about how lucky they were to live a modest life, and have two parents who work hard to feed them, give them the things they want. They showed them the trials of other children in the world and simply said, "You're lucky you don't have their life." The showing of photos from the "Bad Book" they carry around renews that sense of value in their children, and I have actually seen them cry on the spot and clutch the photo, apologizing to the children in the photo that they were bad. They feel sorry for the kids in the photos, whether they're alive or not. They realize how lucky they are and that they shouldn't cause their parents and grief, and that they should behave at all times.
I don't know if a Bad Book will work with your child, but it's a double-edged sword in that you educate them about the hardships of the less-fortunate, and you discipline them without physical punishment.
i will disagrre with you trace.. until you have kids you just dont know. my daughter is 4, and we are expecting another one soon.
the only type of physical contact i use is the open hand spank( on the bum) this is not used as punishment, but when my daughter throws the rare tantrum, it is used as means of getting her attention. she is always warned of one before it happens. usually the sound alone will break her concentration of screaming and yelling long enough to be able to talk to her and explain that her actions or reasons for screaming are not existent and undesirable.
punishment usually involves a time-out or not being able to play with certain toys.
i cannot condone scroatatoes "swat on the cheek". the face is a very sensitive area of the body compared to the clothed, pull-upped, bum.
this is a troubling thread - they are your kids, they depend on you for love
and attention to help them grow. it is a very hard job, and job is absolutely
the worst word to describe the situation. but cherish the moments and try to
provide a good environment for them.
physical and psychological abuse is a terrible thing - stay away from any antedotes that lead you to employ these methods.
all this is my opinion - good luck and remember to leave the room and count
to ten slowly if you need to, you'll both appreciate the break and altered path.
you can not teach your kid that hitting is okay. there is enough violence in our society. is that a trait you want your kid to learn? from you and your wife? while a pop on the bum may not seem much to you, it does provide a foundation for bad behavior later. i wish my parents had not popped me. can't say it better than tectonic.
Feb 11, 05 11:01 am ·
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dr.dree
I bet your kids fell out or did worse things as they got older. You probably just let it slide.
It says infinitely more about the assailant than the child. Mostly a lack of or lapse in self-control. Having maintained or regained full control of yourself, with no anger, would you still actually want to hit your kid? I wouldn't.
The setting of immovable boundaries and the consistent application of rules and consequences, as mentioned above, is the way to go, in my opinion, regardless of the form of those consequences. Hitting, even at the lowest intensity of a so-called pat or swat, would have to be unpleasant to the child to be an aversive consequence and change behavior.
Strike back in self-defense, if a five year old kid larger than you is beating you and you're nearly down for the count.
first, scroat is using pop in the mid-west vernacular POP=Soda, and he is also talking about pops in the east coast vernacular POPS=Whack a kid.
i find this an odd thread, but something i am all too familiar with. I got slapped, punched, belted, berated, belittled, embarassed as a child by my father, and as a young adult even had boiling water thrown on me, so i have some insight here - but i don't have a child. It sucked and still sucks to this day to think about my fathers inability to express himself in way that did less harm, and showed that he cared, but hey he was also an alcoholic.
Mild corporeal punishment or psychological condition does not work either. In either sense the child will sooner or later come to the conclusion that she/he were manipulated, and will inevitably regret their parents "conditioning". What are we talking about here? Kids throwing fits? That's what kids sometimes do, throw fits, much of it may stem from their own inability to communicate their feelings hence the fit.
I had a modern thought professor in college that used Freudian principles to raise her son. She did not constantly condition or punish her son for the stupid little things, but did admonish him when he put himself or others in danger and explained in reasoned way why it was wrong. She did not force potty training on him like many parents do, although when he approached kindergarten she almost relented because he needed to be trained to enter the grade. Instead she looked for other alternatives, and none worked until her son told her about his friends musical toilet seat, so she bought the seat and within a couple of days he trained himself.
Just go to a 2 year old kids party and watch the different aged children, watch how the parents try and direct the youngest kids, it's laughable. The youngest kids spend about 5 seconds doing what their parents want, and then its off to do whatever, following the whimsy of their own brain. The wolf child of every child should be embraced and let alone within reason to explore the world in an honest way,
just me, i hope i can be patient as hope to be a parent someday...
Feb 11, 05 2:49 pm ·
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dr.dree
Yes children fall out but when u let them do it, they’re gonna know that it’s alright to do it
i haven't read any of the replies, but wow! i can't believe so many people wrote so much in response to a parenting question. and i thought this was an architecture forum...
i actually read the first post twice before I figured out what he was talking about...the part about teeth really threw me. I thought it was some sort of existential metaphor or something. nope, just a dude wanting to smack his kid.
i had every kitchen utensil used on my young butt, and a lot of foul words, and now I kindof understand why i am the way I am--techtonic is absolutely right about forming relationships based on physical abuse or non-abuse. there are better ways of "getting his attention" than that. Remove privileges, say you understand their anger but tough cookies, take a time out, take away dessert. Offer a choice--be quiet and get dessert/stay at the park/watch TV, etc. or keep having a fit and get none/go home/no tv, etc.. Consequences for actions. Treat a kid like an adult & he's a lot more likely to act like one sooner.
granted, I am not a parent. I'm actually somewhat afraid to be because of my own experience & not wanting to repeat history...
The first post appears to be deliberately written to confuse the various meanings of "pop". I kind of doubt he's trying to get advice about discipline - or about soda. I think he's just looking to see how much of each he'll get.
On to the issue of hitting kids: musechild, it's only illegal to leave your kids alone in the car in certain states. Here in my home state there's no such law. Some states also allow you to leave a 7 year old alone in a car but not a 3 year old. Other states don't care if you leave your kid in the car alone unless the temperatures are such that the child would be in danger....
But it's illegal to hit your child with an object in pretty much all jurisdictions.
Anybody get the feeling "popping" is a UK thing? Scroat - can you clarify whether soft drinks had anything to do with your post? I'm still not convinced about the teeth comment.
I can't believe anyone is even asking whether it's OK to spank or hit. I spanked my son once when he was a toddler. He's almost 20 now. He cried. I cried. I swore never to do it again and I didn't. Every child I knew his age who was spanked grew up with issues. There is never any reason to do that. Buy yourself a copy of Dr. Spock and read it.
Dr. Spock backfired once though! When my son was about 3 he had dozens of those little Fisher Price people all over the place. He wouldn't pick them up and Dr. Spock said to tell your child you were going to put toys they wouldn't pick up in a place where they couldn't play with them for a week if they didn't help clean up. He wouldn't clean up so I said if he didn't, I'd put everything in a bag and put them on a high shelf for a week. His little face lit up, he ran and got a trash bag, and threw everything in the bag. I warned him I was going to put them on the shelf (hoping he would back down) and he said OK and got a chair to climb on to help. For a week he told anyone who came in the house that I had put his toys where he couldn't play with them and did they want to see where they were. Of course everyone thought I was an evil witch for putting his toys out of reach but he thought it was great.
But seriously, please don't hit. You can reason with kids. There is a lot of help out there. You just have to try different things and see what works. It's going to break your heart in 30 years when your son hits your grandchild for misbehaviour and your going to wonder why he would hit such a sweet innocent person.
uhm, i think hitting is ok, if applied in extreme situations and with absolute coldness on your part. there has to be a build up to it, not just the slap, the kid has to know what is coming, the fear of it has psicologically more effect that the hit itself.
it should only be used in extreme situations, to make your point on important issues. any living creature learn what causes pain and then lerns how to avoid it, it's a natural way of learning. my mother is a trained pedagogist (or whatever the term is in english), and i had my share of slapping back in the days, and today i have a very good relationship with her, with a level of mutual respect that i don't see in other people, even much older than me, so that didn't exactly cripple our relationship.
it's a very powerful thing to do, bu ti think it can be used, just not a revenge on the kid who has pissed you off for trowing a tantrum, but as a teaching device...
and on the other possible reading of the post, i think pop is ok with a good shot of vodka, that will send the little bugger to sleep straight away
Mum, I love your post. It made me laugh (that kid showing everyone how evil mommy is!) and the point about not wanting to watch your kid slap your grandchild someday is a really good one.
I have always had an extremely fiery temper. I am prone to taking our my anger on the object that is causing it - leading to lots of holes in walls, broken objects, stuck zippers ripped out of otherwise good clothing, etc. Now that I have a 20 month old I spend a good portion of my energy trying to control my temper, because when I see him throw the toy that he can't open to the ground in frustration, I realize that I don't want my child to deal with the world like I do. I'm slowly getting better.
Hitting in a moment of anger is wrong - it betrays a lack of maturity on the part of the parent, and what will that do to teach a child? How can I teach him "Biting Dougie is bad, it hurts him when you bite him and it's not nice" and then turn around and slap his hand for touching the computer? Bad parenting, plain and simple.
My dad spanked me with a razor strap that he kept hanging on the hearth as a warning! But he never spanked in anger, it was always a deliberate punishment that came after a discussion of what I had done wrong.
All in all, punishment hardens and renders people more insensible; it concentrates; it increases the feeling of estrangement; it strengthens the power of resistance.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Liberty - I was spanked too, that's what parents did in the 60's. I guess I survived but we had lots of family issues. There's a good book that I got a lot out of - "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk".
It's good from toddler age up to adults. I even found that it helps me deal with co-workers, my own parents. etc. It helps you put yourself in the position of whoever your trying to talk to and explains what a child hears when you respond to them in certain ways and how to get them to express their feelings. It helps you to get kids to cooperate with you. It's worth looking at.
To those in favor of hitting, how would you like it if you went to work and your boss punched you as punishment for not getting a project out or breaking the plotter? Is that appropriate? Why is it appropriate to do to a child?
How about this? Can anyone come up with an example of a species of animal that punishes it's children with violence? Animals growl and make warning sounds or nudge their children to get them out of danger or teach them something. But has anyone ever heard of an animal biting or trampling their own children deliberately for punishment? They teach by example. Animals are more instinctive than we are. Protecting and teaching children is a basic animal function. We are animals also. So why are we the only species who physically hurts our children to "teach" them?
i was spanked and swatted. i turned out fine. my family doesn't have serious issues. my parents never went to jail, nor have i... frankly i WISH more parents would spank.
we don't have kids, but my wife and i are appalled at the lack of discipline in children we see out in the world. for fuck's sake parents... smack those little bastards when they deserve it so they don't turn into little monsters! i actually laugh when i see some of the yuppie discipline sessions you'll run across in public or when friends come over with kids...
i was spanked and swatted. i turned out fine...for fuck's sake parents... smack those little bastards when they deserve it so they don't turn into little monsters...
My wife and I (25 & 23) are in an after hours parenting class now at my daughter's Montessori school. We have a 3 year olf girl, 2 year old boy, and one more boy 8 months old. The class has been very insightful for both of us and we've been trying several different approaches to situations of misbehavior, excluding spanking or yelling. Here are some reasons for opposing corporal punishment from the class book titled "Redirecting Children's Behavior":
1. It is unnecessary. There are nonviolent displinary alternatives which are even more effective and pose no risk of harm to children.
2. It confuses discipline with punishment. Discipline is used to teach, while punishment is used for purposes of control and retribution. Young children do not commit crimes that require a punishment reaction. Their mistakes call for a corrective disciplinary response only.
3. It validates fear, pain, intimidation, and violence as acceptable methods of resolving conflicts between adults and children.
4. It preempts more effective means of communication and problem solving. As long as as it is an available option, little effort will be made to learn nonviolent alternatives.
5. It confues the issue of love and violence, teaching that violence can be an expression of love. True love is expressed in much healthier ways.
6. Since all human behavior is symptomatic, it merely controls the symptom while aggravating the cause of the personality distrubance in your child.
7. It is dangerous because it can escalate into battering.
8. It increases aggresiveness in your child (something we noticed in my two year old boy when we started spanking him, we've since stopped and he's less aggressive) and promotes vandalism in the school and on the street. Violence perpetuates violence.
9. It can result in permanent physical, mental, spiritual, or emotional harm to your child.
10. It reduces the ability of your child to concentrate on intellectual tasks, thereby inhibiting learning.
11. THere is a higher rate of juvenile delinquency, depression, and suicide among children who are corporally punished.
12. THe children develop less conscience (i.e., when corporal punishment is used, right and wrong is an external control from the parent rather than an internal decision to control one's behavior; also children will rebel against this form of punishment simply to rebel instead of developing their own consciences).
13. There is a higher incidence of violence among siblings.
14. Initiative and creativity are decreased and a sense of powerlessness, alienation, and being "turned off" is increased.
15. These children tend to achieve a lower level of academic and economic success as an adult.
FYI...I was spanked until I was around 13. THe last day my father spanked me was the day I hit him in the jaw with my fist. It's horrible to even admit that but it was a result of years of being spanked. As a small child I craved atttention and would get into the wrong things. Rather than using the love-discipline-patience approach, my parents would lose it and just spank. I love my parents with all my heart, but I look back at this and think they could have used antoher method, ALTHOUGH I've turned out ok. Remember you only have one go at this parents stuff with your child.
Phew...Thanks so much for the responses. I'm humbled by the advice that so many of you parents have given. I do apologize for the confusion that some of you had with thinking I was describing pops "cokes, sodas, etc.". I had no idea a person could read it that way until you spoke up about it!
Brim, your list was great. Thanks.
I do appreciate the willingness to be honest about your past experiences. Must be strange recalling things like that so many years later, I know it is for me.
these little "monsters" aren't created in a vacuum, it is most defintely an environment of abuse that creates future bullies, road ragers and the like. if all parents in the world taught their children to communicate instead of the fist first policy we have, then maybe will see a decline in the incidence of Columbine and others...this is not a chicken and egg concept, don't beat your kids, if you must take out your rage, burn this, it seems all the "rage" right now...
My childhood's best friend's brother Jeff was taught emphatically "Do not hit first. If someone else hits you first, feel free to defend yourself by whatever means."
Jeff got in a fight in the 7th grade playground one day, after another kid challenged him and he stood his ground, but wouldn't hit. The second kid finally popped him, and Jeff smacked him down hard and fast. His mom had to come pick him up at school, he was suspended for fighting, but I overheard his mom proudly say to my mom "I taught him never to hit first, and he didn't. I'm proud of him for both controlling himself and for defending himself."
But the point is, intellect is the first line of defense, fists are a last measure. Gee, kinda makes me think of Iraq for some reason.
i'm fine with teaching a child to defend himself, but this is different than a child being hit by a person they love and trust.
the last fight i got into was in the 7th grade. the kid hit me in the face at the bus stop due to a disagreement. that was the last puch he threw. i have tried to avoid physical conflicts since then because i could not stop hitting him. it was scary how i could not control myself. the next day his big brother wanted to beat me up. fortunately, he wanted to talk to me first. because he was much older and bigger, he would have beat me to a bloody pulp like i did to his brother. i told him what went down and told him i did not hit his brother until after he hit me. his brother thought i had every right to defend myself.
i hear you patrick. my brother in law and his wife won't put their kid down. seriously, they are holding the kid all of the time. it has something to do with some book they read. i fear they will grow up and their kid will still be sleeping in the same bed with them when the kid is a teenager. yuck.
I'm not in a position to tell anyone how to raise their child, but I did just want to point out that you can never know what message you are sending your child by hitting/swatting/spanking them.
Case in point: in a conversation with my father recently on how ridiculously misbehaved kids seem to be now, I mentioned, "well, you spanked me" and he was absolutely appalled that I implied this was a regular occurance. Apparently, he only spanked me a few times before my mother put a stop to it. 15 years later, those few times joined together in my mind and I assumed they faired a trend, which was not actually the case. So I've been thinking of my father as a more violent person than he actually was, and by the look on his face then, obviously differently than he would want me to think of him.
Even though all these books try to tell you what 'message' spanking or hitting your kids will send, you really never know what those jumbled memories will turn into down the road, what they'll actually end up thinking about it. Now I'm not trying to say that a few spankings damaged me or the way I relate with others, but that I saw how hurt my dad was when he realized that I didn't remember that it was only a few times.
Parents: Okay to give a kid a pop here and there?
I'm really having some problems, well, my wife and I are, with our five year old. There are times when he's just begging for a pop, and we kind of buckle and let him have one or two throughout the week. But there have been more and more reasons lately to give in with some troubling frequency. The feet stomping, the begging, the throwing of toys and magazines - these things that he does, just literally asking for pops.
If you're like me, and mid-thirties, I'm sure your parents gave you one here and there, they probably didn't want to because "they're just not the things that growing kids need from a good parent," some people say. For growing kids, they can be bad for the teeth, make them not want to eat, and give headaches. I went through it until I figured out that I just didn't want pops anymore, didn't want them as part of my life. And unfortunatly for me, it wasn't until I was 15 that I figured out how to avoid them. Maybe my dad just offered them too much to me, or something like that. It was just how he did things - no control, no reservations, no thinking about health effects and such.
So, to you parents out there, is corporal punishment something you incorporate into the discipline cycle for your children? We can't be the only parents out there who, after a long work day, just feel that a quick spanking, or swat on the cheek is the best way to control a problem with a kid right then and there. Like I said, it was done to me - my dad would come home and step barefoot on some train toy I left out, come storming into my room and backhand me or lay into me with a belt.
But if you do it, how do you get your kids to understand that it's for their benefit? Our son has had his share by now, let me tell you. But we feel that it's working, because lately merely mentioning to him "You're gonna get a pop if you don't straighten up Zeke," seems to do the trick. Who was it that gave birth to his theories of conditioning, Darwin, right? That's how we see it.
How do you see it?
It sounds like your child is exhibiting a lack of self-control. It also sounds as if he is modeling his behavior after his parents, which is quite normal.
It sounds like your child is exhibiting a lack of self-control. It also sounds as if he is modeling his behavior after his parents, which is normal.
I think pops and swats are good for the last resort and only when you apply them in a controlled (w/ no anger) manner. If they become too frequent, the kid will adapt and they become useless and you have the potential to cross that oh so fine line.
Five years old is definitely old enough to use reason. It takes a hell of a lot of patience and a consistent perseverance on your part, but the ultimate goal is to have an established respect for your authority. Obviously every child is different, but the best and simplest thing I have found works with my girls is threatening (& following through) to take away toys or activities. Timeouts actually can work too if they are totally deprived of any distractions and made uncomfortable. Spankings are reserved for the ultimate crimes;)
I tell you what, trying to be a good parent is a lot harder than I thought it would be. It’s all to easy to come home stressed and lose your patience in a hurry, but stopping and controlling those moments is what sets many types of parents apart. I try to look at parenting as just another new way to challenge and better yourself (along with someone else).
I don’t watch too much t.v., but I saw a clip of a show (I think on Tuesday night) called Nanny something or another that had a nanny that straightens up some really crazy kids with some really good techniques. You should check it out.
The fact that you are even asking about this probably means your already a great dad.
Take care,
Bula
Scroatatoes,
My son is 5 years old. And what I'm about to tell you is very simple but hard to understand because of the way we have been brought up. I'm 32 years old, and let me tell you I got a bit more than pops. Whatever your form, method, version or understanding of corporal punishment is you shouldn't practice it, just don't do it. And this is why; the moment that you 'pop' your child a few reactions occur. First you are telling the child that when you cannot communicate clearly with a person an option maybe to hit them. Second, your actions maybe degrading his/her self esteem by undervalueing his/her sense of empowerment and right to be heard. Third, if your own parent is poping you, (from the childs point of view) what does this say about the rest of the world? Fourth, hiting may build up anger and resentment towards you and it will only worsen communication and his/her relationship with you; which may or maynot become even worse with time since the child at this age is still forming life long foundamental bonds with you. You get the point. So what do you do with your frustrations towards the child? One thing that is very clear to me is that a child's behavior stems from the parents behavior. In other words he/she has learned from you or your wife how to cope with problems/frustrations. So in order to correct the problem unfortunetly you have to start by examining you and your wife's reactions when things go bad. The other point in order to correct his /her behavior is to create something that is of value to her/him. Let me give you an example which really, really has worked for me and I still use. My wife and I set up a jar in which we put in marbles, when we feel his behavior is up to par, i.e. manners, cleaning, listening, finishing his meals, etc. (you get the point), we add a marble. At the end of the week depending on how many marbles he has, he can either keep saving them or he can choose to have a treat. The meaning of treat to him has alot of value, we have also given the word 'privilige' alot of value. So, him and us agree that there is a common platform which we all agree has value to him and to us. When his good behavior is lacking, than we take away a marble or he looses a privilege. I hope Im making my self clear. As you can see, frustration can be paralyzing but don't pop your kid; he/she is counting on you to bring a solution to the table that helps him/her have a better relationship with you.
I second Tectonic's method's...
One more thing, if the situation absolutley calls for physical punishment, don't use your hand (so no head pops), spank with a mildy stinging rod of some sort. You use your hands to hug, pat, and comfort your child. Don't send mixed messages on what your hand will do.
Bula: hitting with a "mildly stinging rod" is enough to get you arrested. In most jurisdictions you can use your hand to spank a child (not that I would encourage that) but using an object is grounds for charges of abuse/assault.
forget about reasoning and marbles. solitary confinement and some abu ghirab style tacticts should fix those little bastards right up.
Aluminate....
Your right...and you can't leave your kids in the car whatsoever either. But do you think a cop will arrest you while you get out to enter a gate code or pump gas...no. Parenting is not that black & white. If you spank with a rod and leave a mark that lasts more than a few minutes, you've gone too far, but I'm talking about a a fully controlled (w/ no anger) slight sting that hurts for a minute and is used as a last resort. This is nothing compared to what legal institutions do to overly hyperactive kids. Personally, my kids have never needed this, but I do understand how it could be necessary with some children.
Pop can be a reward and only that. My parents let me have one pop a week and that was only with dinner on Saturday if I had helped around the house that day. Pop was also a treat if there was a birthday or we went out to eat which was rare. I don't drink pop now, only with booze. It is a horrible thing to drink pop.
By the way, when I was around 8 or so my dad started using a "smashball" pattle on me...and I tell you what, I hardly ever f'd up from that point on.
...went through this a long time ago, kids almost in teens now, and this is just my opinion, so take of it what you can....
i never believed in the pop psych crap too much and projecting adult themed solutions and outlooks on a toddler is pointless.
look, a 5 year olds mission in life is to test how much he/she can get away with and for how long. the biggest problem my wife and i had, and most parents today with the time constraints of life, is that we wouldn't follow through with our 'rules', and boundries weren't well defined all the time. it's easier after working 12 hours to come home and give in to a childs whimsy because of your own feelings of guilt of being away etc.etc.. But children crave boundries, limits, and yes punishment too. be willing to leave the store in the middle of shopping, or the restaurant, etc... just be sure you follow through with what you say you are going to do. if they discover a weakness they will exploit it to the Nth until it doesn't work anymore.
we implemented the 'no means no' policy, wich is harder than it sounds. you tell them no once, if they ask again, they get one warning, anything after that gets a swat on the butt with an open hand. (you cannot do this in public nowadays, that's why you have to be willing to drop whatever you're doing wherever you are to go home and give the swat) and a swat is just that, one small smack to get their attention and make a point, that's what it is about, making a point that you mean what you say and will follow through. and it should never be done in anger, it should be a matter of factly 'this behavior is not acceptable, you know the rules'. it's not about corporal punishmet/undervalueing/blahblahblah.. you can take away marbles and talk all you want, but what a 5 year old needs to learn is that their actions have consequences that are in their control. and as parents we need to learn that following through with what we say and do is one of the most difficult and important tasks for raising children.
just some thoughts,
every kid is completely different though,
so take what you will.
good luck!
I wholeheartedly agree. I have sat and watched so many kids grow up and this has been the number one tactic that has made a child well behaved.
No kids here, but I've been around my nephew since he was born (now 4).
I am with Tectonic. There is no excuse for physical punishment, it's simply demonstrating a lack of patience and resovle on the parents part. I was never hit and my parents are two of my best friends - I truly believe things should be taught through respect and trust.
Did anyone else think that the original poster was talking about soft drinks at first? LOL
But on to business. Many people hit their pets, and the pet becomes afraid of a hand coming close to them - they have been conditioned to expect pain from the hand, not a soft scratch behind the ear, or other hard to reach spots.
The same thing can happen to a child.
I have a friend who, along with his wife, came up with an incredible way of straightening out their three boys. All are close in age and the first was a real monster. The other two followed suit.
What they do with their kids instead of spanking is show them photographs of terrible events from history (Hiroshima aftermath, ravaged clothes on a child all alone, or pictures of famined Ethopian children, or, a Deliverance type of photo of filthy backwoods boys using a tire swing for entertainment) and somehow the kids do an about-face immediatly.
I asked what the trick was, and they said that they had many conversations with their kids about how lucky they were to live a modest life, and have two parents who work hard to feed them, give them the things they want. They showed them the trials of other children in the world and simply said, "You're lucky you don't have their life." The showing of photos from the "Bad Book" they carry around renews that sense of value in their children, and I have actually seen them cry on the spot and clutch the photo, apologizing to the children in the photo that they were bad. They feel sorry for the kids in the photos, whether they're alive or not. They realize how lucky they are and that they shouldn't cause their parents and grief, and that they should behave at all times.
I don't know if a Bad Book will work with your child, but it's a double-edged sword in that you educate them about the hardships of the less-fortunate, and you discipline them without physical punishment.
Brilliant, to say the least.
i will disagrre with you trace.. until you have kids you just dont know. my daughter is 4, and we are expecting another one soon.
the only type of physical contact i use is the open hand spank( on the bum) this is not used as punishment, but when my daughter throws the rare tantrum, it is used as means of getting her attention. she is always warned of one before it happens. usually the sound alone will break her concentration of screaming and yelling long enough to be able to talk to her and explain that her actions or reasons for screaming are not existent and undesirable.
punishment usually involves a time-out or not being able to play with certain toys.
i cannot condone scroatatoes "swat on the cheek". the face is a very sensitive area of the body compared to the clothed, pull-upped, bum.
No swats on cheek but yes this is how u do it.
not sure what a psychologist would have to say about the 'bad book.'
....that is one serious guilt trip to be imposing on a child.
this is a troubling thread - they are your kids, they depend on you for love
and attention to help them grow. it is a very hard job, and job is absolutely
the worst word to describe the situation. but cherish the moments and try to
provide a good environment for them.
physical and psychological abuse is a terrible thing - stay away from any antedotes that lead you to employ these methods.
all this is my opinion - good luck and remember to leave the room and count
to ten slowly if you need to, you'll both appreciate the break and altered path.
It ain’t help. I’m still upset
you can not teach your kid that hitting is okay. there is enough violence in our society. is that a trait you want your kid to learn? from you and your wife? while a pop on the bum may not seem much to you, it does provide a foundation for bad behavior later. i wish my parents had not popped me. can't say it better than tectonic.
I bet your kids fell out or did worse things as they got older. You probably just let it slide.
It says infinitely more about the assailant than the child. Mostly a lack of or lapse in self-control. Having maintained or regained full control of yourself, with no anger, would you still actually want to hit your kid? I wouldn't.
The setting of immovable boundaries and the consistent application of rules and consequences, as mentioned above, is the way to go, in my opinion, regardless of the form of those consequences. Hitting, even at the lowest intensity of a so-called pat or swat, would have to be unpleasant to the child to be an aversive consequence and change behavior.
Strike back in self-defense, if a five year old kid larger than you is beating you and you're nearly down for the count.
first, scroat is using pop in the mid-west vernacular POP=Soda, and he is also talking about pops in the east coast vernacular POPS=Whack a kid.
i find this an odd thread, but something i am all too familiar with. I got slapped, punched, belted, berated, belittled, embarassed as a child by my father, and as a young adult even had boiling water thrown on me, so i have some insight here - but i don't have a child. It sucked and still sucks to this day to think about my fathers inability to express himself in way that did less harm, and showed that he cared, but hey he was also an alcoholic.
Mild corporeal punishment or psychological condition does not work either. In either sense the child will sooner or later come to the conclusion that she/he were manipulated, and will inevitably regret their parents "conditioning". What are we talking about here? Kids throwing fits? That's what kids sometimes do, throw fits, much of it may stem from their own inability to communicate their feelings hence the fit.
I had a modern thought professor in college that used Freudian principles to raise her son. She did not constantly condition or punish her son for the stupid little things, but did admonish him when he put himself or others in danger and explained in reasoned way why it was wrong. She did not force potty training on him like many parents do, although when he approached kindergarten she almost relented because he needed to be trained to enter the grade. Instead she looked for other alternatives, and none worked until her son told her about his friends musical toilet seat, so she bought the seat and within a couple of days he trained himself.
Just go to a 2 year old kids party and watch the different aged children, watch how the parents try and direct the youngest kids, it's laughable. The youngest kids spend about 5 seconds doing what their parents want, and then its off to do whatever, following the whimsy of their own brain. The wolf child of every child should be embraced and let alone within reason to explore the world in an honest way,
just me, i hope i can be patient as hope to be a parent someday...
Yes children fall out but when u let them do it, they’re gonna know that it’s alright to do it
i haven't read any of the replies, but wow! i can't believe so many people wrote so much in response to a parenting question. and i thought this was an architecture forum...
you know some architects are parents too. not me, but some are.
Sorry, i totaly didn't read the whole first post. i thought it was about soda pop. oops.
it was about soda-pop
it's about both i guess.
time to go home and relax
i actually read the first post twice before I figured out what he was talking about...the part about teeth really threw me. I thought it was some sort of existential metaphor or something. nope, just a dude wanting to smack his kid.
i had every kitchen utensil used on my young butt, and a lot of foul words, and now I kindof understand why i am the way I am--techtonic is absolutely right about forming relationships based on physical abuse or non-abuse. there are better ways of "getting his attention" than that. Remove privileges, say you understand their anger but tough cookies, take a time out, take away dessert. Offer a choice--be quiet and get dessert/stay at the park/watch TV, etc. or keep having a fit and get none/go home/no tv, etc.. Consequences for actions. Treat a kid like an adult & he's a lot more likely to act like one sooner.
granted, I am not a parent. I'm actually somewhat afraid to be because of my own experience & not wanting to repeat history...
No kidding Museschild. Threw me too. I was a little uncomfortable when I drew the connection between teeth hurting and getting punched in the jaw.
No kidding that would be bad for the teeth of a growing child!
Read to your kid at night.<----
The first post appears to be deliberately written to confuse the various meanings of "pop". I kind of doubt he's trying to get advice about discipline - or about soda. I think he's just looking to see how much of each he'll get.
On to the issue of hitting kids: musechild, it's only illegal to leave your kids alone in the car in certain states. Here in my home state there's no such law. Some states also allow you to leave a 7 year old alone in a car but not a 3 year old. Other states don't care if you leave your kid in the car alone unless the temperatures are such that the child would be in danger....
But it's illegal to hit your child with an object in pretty much all jurisdictions.
Anybody get the feeling "popping" is a UK thing? Scroat - can you clarify whether soft drinks had anything to do with your post? I'm still not convinced about the teeth comment.
I can't believe anyone is even asking whether it's OK to spank or hit. I spanked my son once when he was a toddler. He's almost 20 now. He cried. I cried. I swore never to do it again and I didn't. Every child I knew his age who was spanked grew up with issues. There is never any reason to do that. Buy yourself a copy of Dr. Spock and read it.
Dr. Spock backfired once though! When my son was about 3 he had dozens of those little Fisher Price people all over the place. He wouldn't pick them up and Dr. Spock said to tell your child you were going to put toys they wouldn't pick up in a place where they couldn't play with them for a week if they didn't help clean up. He wouldn't clean up so I said if he didn't, I'd put everything in a bag and put them on a high shelf for a week. His little face lit up, he ran and got a trash bag, and threw everything in the bag. I warned him I was going to put them on the shelf (hoping he would back down) and he said OK and got a chair to climb on to help. For a week he told anyone who came in the house that I had put his toys where he couldn't play with them and did they want to see where they were. Of course everyone thought I was an evil witch for putting his toys out of reach but he thought it was great.
But seriously, please don't hit. You can reason with kids. There is a lot of help out there. You just have to try different things and see what works. It's going to break your heart in 30 years when your son hits your grandchild for misbehaviour and your going to wonder why he would hit such a sweet innocent person.
uhm, i think hitting is ok, if applied in extreme situations and with absolute coldness on your part. there has to be a build up to it, not just the slap, the kid has to know what is coming, the fear of it has psicologically more effect that the hit itself.
it should only be used in extreme situations, to make your point on important issues. any living creature learn what causes pain and then lerns how to avoid it, it's a natural way of learning. my mother is a trained pedagogist (or whatever the term is in english), and i had my share of slapping back in the days, and today i have a very good relationship with her, with a level of mutual respect that i don't see in other people, even much older than me, so that didn't exactly cripple our relationship.
it's a very powerful thing to do, bu ti think it can be used, just not a revenge on the kid who has pissed you off for trowing a tantrum, but as a teaching device...
and on the other possible reading of the post, i think pop is ok with a good shot of vodka, that will send the little bugger to sleep straight away
Mum, I love your post. It made me laugh (that kid showing everyone how evil mommy is!) and the point about not wanting to watch your kid slap your grandchild someday is a really good one.
I have always had an extremely fiery temper. I am prone to taking our my anger on the object that is causing it - leading to lots of holes in walls, broken objects, stuck zippers ripped out of otherwise good clothing, etc. Now that I have a 20 month old I spend a good portion of my energy trying to control my temper, because when I see him throw the toy that he can't open to the ground in frustration, I realize that I don't want my child to deal with the world like I do. I'm slowly getting better.
Hitting in a moment of anger is wrong - it betrays a lack of maturity on the part of the parent, and what will that do to teach a child? How can I teach him "Biting Dougie is bad, it hurts him when you bite him and it's not nice" and then turn around and slap his hand for touching the computer? Bad parenting, plain and simple.
My dad spanked me with a razor strap that he kept hanging on the hearth as a warning! But he never spanked in anger, it was always a deliberate punishment that came after a discussion of what I had done wrong.
All in all, punishment hardens and renders people more insensible; it concentrates; it increases the feeling of estrangement; it strengthens the power of resistance.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Liberty - I was spanked too, that's what parents did in the 60's. I guess I survived but we had lots of family issues. There's a good book that I got a lot out of - "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk".
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380811960/qid=1108223713/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-0779408-4085550?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
It's good from toddler age up to adults. I even found that it helps me deal with co-workers, my own parents. etc. It helps you put yourself in the position of whoever your trying to talk to and explains what a child hears when you respond to them in certain ways and how to get them to express their feelings. It helps you to get kids to cooperate with you. It's worth looking at.
To those in favor of hitting, how would you like it if you went to work and your boss punched you as punishment for not getting a project out or breaking the plotter? Is that appropriate? Why is it appropriate to do to a child?
How about this? Can anyone come up with an example of a species of animal that punishes it's children with violence? Animals growl and make warning sounds or nudge their children to get them out of danger or teach them something. But has anyone ever heard of an animal biting or trampling their own children deliberately for punishment? They teach by example. Animals are more instinctive than we are. Protecting and teaching children is a basic animal function. We are animals also. So why are we the only species who physically hurts our children to "teach" them?
And Coke is better than Pepsi
good thought mum. sorry i drink diet coke. diabetes will do that to a kid. can't stand coke or pepsi.
i was spanked and swatted. i turned out fine. my family doesn't have serious issues. my parents never went to jail, nor have i... frankly i WISH more parents would spank.
we don't have kids, but my wife and i are appalled at the lack of discipline in children we see out in the world. for fuck's sake parents... smack those little bastards when they deserve it so they don't turn into little monsters! i actually laugh when i see some of the yuppie discipline sessions you'll run across in public or when friends come over with kids...
and soda pop is bad for you.
i was spanked and swatted. i turned out fine...for fuck's sake parents... smack those little bastards when they deserve it so they don't turn into little monsters...
sounds intelligent to me...
My wife and I (25 & 23) are in an after hours parenting class now at my daughter's Montessori school. We have a 3 year olf girl, 2 year old boy, and one more boy 8 months old. The class has been very insightful for both of us and we've been trying several different approaches to situations of misbehavior, excluding spanking or yelling. Here are some reasons for opposing corporal punishment from the class book titled "Redirecting Children's Behavior":
1. It is unnecessary. There are nonviolent displinary alternatives which are even more effective and pose no risk of harm to children.
2. It confuses discipline with punishment. Discipline is used to teach, while punishment is used for purposes of control and retribution. Young children do not commit crimes that require a punishment reaction. Their mistakes call for a corrective disciplinary response only.
3. It validates fear, pain, intimidation, and violence as acceptable methods of resolving conflicts between adults and children.
4. It preempts more effective means of communication and problem solving. As long as as it is an available option, little effort will be made to learn nonviolent alternatives.
5. It confues the issue of love and violence, teaching that violence can be an expression of love. True love is expressed in much healthier ways.
6. Since all human behavior is symptomatic, it merely controls the symptom while aggravating the cause of the personality distrubance in your child.
7. It is dangerous because it can escalate into battering.
8. It increases aggresiveness in your child (something we noticed in my two year old boy when we started spanking him, we've since stopped and he's less aggressive) and promotes vandalism in the school and on the street. Violence perpetuates violence.
9. It can result in permanent physical, mental, spiritual, or emotional harm to your child.
10. It reduces the ability of your child to concentrate on intellectual tasks, thereby inhibiting learning.
11. THere is a higher rate of juvenile delinquency, depression, and suicide among children who are corporally punished.
12. THe children develop less conscience (i.e., when corporal punishment is used, right and wrong is an external control from the parent rather than an internal decision to control one's behavior; also children will rebel against this form of punishment simply to rebel instead of developing their own consciences).
13. There is a higher incidence of violence among siblings.
14. Initiative and creativity are decreased and a sense of powerlessness, alienation, and being "turned off" is increased.
15. These children tend to achieve a lower level of academic and economic success as an adult.
FYI...I was spanked until I was around 13. THe last day my father spanked me was the day I hit him in the jaw with my fist. It's horrible to even admit that but it was a result of years of being spanked. As a small child I craved atttention and would get into the wrong things. Rather than using the love-discipline-patience approach, my parents would lose it and just spank. I love my parents with all my heart, but I look back at this and think they could have used antoher method, ALTHOUGH I've turned out ok. Remember you only have one go at this parents stuff with your child.
this is great advice
Glad to see a strong support of non violence.
This sums it up for me:
"the fear of it has psicologically more effect that the hit itself." RC above
Teach out of love and respect, not fear.
Trace,
Awesome observation!!!!!!!!!!
crazywilly, it sounds like you didn't turn out okay. glad you don't have kids.
too bad that every kid is different from others. so, best techniques will vary.
but i've used the creative-greater-patience method with good result, as far as i can tell.
sitting in the corner, incarceration, isolation, ostracization, call it what you want. it also works.
if you are stuck with a kid who is suddenly 5 (such as via adoption or oversight!), you don't have the option of guiding the kid from birth.
she said, "son, don't you wish your penis was as large as mine?"
"whoops, wrong method."
yeah. and in general, if you spend a lot of good time with a person (child, in this case), they will respect you when there are disagreements.
Phew...Thanks so much for the responses. I'm humbled by the advice that so many of you parents have given. I do apologize for the confusion that some of you had with thinking I was describing pops "cokes, sodas, etc.". I had no idea a person could read it that way until you spoke up about it!
Brim, your list was great. Thanks.
I do appreciate the willingness to be honest about your past experiences. Must be strange recalling things like that so many years later, I know it is for me.
Thanks again.
these little "monsters" aren't created in a vacuum, it is most defintely an environment of abuse that creates future bullies, road ragers and the like. if all parents in the world taught their children to communicate instead of the fist first policy we have, then maybe will see a decline in the incidence of Columbine and others...this is not a chicken and egg concept, don't beat your kids, if you must take out your rage, burn this, it seems all the "rage" right now...
My childhood's best friend's brother Jeff was taught emphatically "Do not hit first. If someone else hits you first, feel free to defend yourself by whatever means."
Jeff got in a fight in the 7th grade playground one day, after another kid challenged him and he stood his ground, but wouldn't hit. The second kid finally popped him, and Jeff smacked him down hard and fast. His mom had to come pick him up at school, he was suspended for fighting, but I overheard his mom proudly say to my mom "I taught him never to hit first, and he didn't. I'm proud of him for both controlling himself and for defending himself."
But the point is, intellect is the first line of defense, fists are a last measure. Gee, kinda makes me think of Iraq for some reason.
i'm fine with teaching a child to defend himself, but this is different than a child being hit by a person they love and trust.
the last fight i got into was in the 7th grade. the kid hit me in the face at the bus stop due to a disagreement. that was the last puch he threw. i have tried to avoid physical conflicts since then because i could not stop hitting him. it was scary how i could not control myself. the next day his big brother wanted to beat me up. fortunately, he wanted to talk to me first. because he was much older and bigger, he would have beat me to a bloody pulp like i did to his brother. i told him what went down and told him i did not hit his brother until after he hit me. his brother thought i had every right to defend myself.
i hear you patrick. my brother in law and his wife won't put their kid down. seriously, they are holding the kid all of the time. it has something to do with some book they read. i fear they will grow up and their kid will still be sleeping in the same bed with them when the kid is a teenager. yuck.
I'm not in a position to tell anyone how to raise their child, but I did just want to point out that you can never know what message you are sending your child by hitting/swatting/spanking them.
Case in point: in a conversation with my father recently on how ridiculously misbehaved kids seem to be now, I mentioned, "well, you spanked me" and he was absolutely appalled that I implied this was a regular occurance. Apparently, he only spanked me a few times before my mother put a stop to it. 15 years later, those few times joined together in my mind and I assumed they faired a trend, which was not actually the case. So I've been thinking of my father as a more violent person than he actually was, and by the look on his face then, obviously differently than he would want me to think of him.
Even though all these books try to tell you what 'message' spanking or hitting your kids will send, you really never know what those jumbled memories will turn into down the road, what they'll actually end up thinking about it. Now I'm not trying to say that a few spankings damaged me or the way I relate with others, but that I saw how hurt my dad was when he realized that I didn't remember that it was only a few times.
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