As a parent of a 7 year old girl and 3 year old boy, I can comment on this. I was just looking at another thread where the OP asked everyone to name their 30 favorite Architecture books. For me and I am sure most of the parents here, my kids are even more important tome then architecture, I wonder how many people have over 30 parenting books.
I know booksmarts only go so far in this realm but they can be a good place to start. I can't think of one book that has a single possitive thing to say about hitting a kid, besides maybe that a__hole from "Focus on the Family"
We have never hit or spanked either of ours, but I agree with a lot of what "o+ " says, besides his/her final action of spanking(no matter how mildly). Parents must be consistent and must mean what they say, and follow it up with action. A child must have a consequence for acting out and not listening when told to stop. We have found that the consequence can be just about anything, not having a bedtime story, not having a sweet treat, whatever but you can't cave on it a half hour later when they are not acting out, and both parents have to be on the same page.
On the rare occasion when we do raise our voices our kids know it is time to listen up and fast.
Our kids have gone to Waldorf School and one thing that sold me on it was watching the kindergarten teacher deal with a roomful of unruley kids. When they had an open house for perspective familiies, we went and our daughter joined a roomful of 2 and 3 year olds that were in a classroom for the firsttime. The teacher was sitting there quitly at first but when she decided she wanted the childrens attention she sang int the quitest voice "children gather round, children gather round" and they did. They were all silent waiting to hear what she would say next.
One more thing, with my 3 year old especially distraction is the first tool I reach for, if he is fixated on something and getting frustrated with it, "if I think" I can come up with something that will distract him. Something like, "Did I tell you that I heard a new story about a Knight that got cornered by a Dragon. You may finish getting dressed and then I will tell you."
My father spanked me a few times up until I was about 8 yrs old. I think it was ok. I never fought in school or was disrespectful to my parents or anyone else. In fact it made me very aware of my parents authority. Sure, later in life I did act out or had a bad temper sometimes. It was part of growing up. I can't say it had anything to do with my getting spanked. Today, I have two boys who sometimes can be a handful. They usually get one swat on the butt to get their attention. It works. They mainly get the other types of punishments like "time out" They work too. I sense that I should try harder to not spank. After reading this it makes me think that I'll think twice. By the way those Nanny shows do offer good advice/ methods.
Did anyone else get spanked with a fly-swatter as a child? I did. I asked my Mom about it a few days ago while reading her some of the finer posts from this thread. She really lost it when I suggested a memory of my bare bottom being spanked with the fly-swatter, while it was still covered in the dried guts of flies that met the fate throughout the year.
but yes- i agree with spanking here and there. not overdone b/c like roaches in the ghetto- they adapt and it no longer affects them.
fortunately for me i have a menacing looking face (although still goodlooking if ah might say so maself!) and the kid stops in her tracks with that stare. yknow- like a christopher walken pissed off kind of stare. then if the action ensues comes my swift open hand drafting strengthened hand to the heiney.
Well this is why I love talking with other architects - when architects chat the lighthearted topics produce funny comments and the serious topics produce considered comments that are thoughtful and intelligent.
I try to talk about parenting with nurses or lawyers or schoolteachers and we just never quite connect as well as I do with my architect friends.
Must be that well-rounded cultural and technical education we all have.
One of the most valuable things my father taught me growing up is that one can communicate with others using either their intellect OR their fists.
AND
-OR.
absolutely. Although fists may not be enough. A frag may be necessary. But either way, parents smacking their kid about are more likely to create the bully, than to create the self-defensive good guy.
my brother in law and his wife won't put their kid down. seriously, they are holding the kid all of the time. it has something to do with some book they read. i fear they will grow up and their kid will still be sleeping in the same bed with them when the kid is a teenager. yuck.
if an "attractive nuisance" :-) exists just out of reach of their kid, the kid should soon be struggling to escape parents grasp. (this is "the carrot" method of being sure the toddler ventures out on his-her own.)
my wife and i do not spank our girls - period. i figure i'm really modelling some pretty slippery slope behavior if i show them what it looks like when i lose my temper in a position of authority.
my wife and i both really appreciate the wisdom in this book...
can't comment as i am nowhere near having kids. but my sister and i were spanked as children and feel like we came out ok. we're well adjusted and neither of us ever had even a hint of behavioral problems in school. we have a great relationship with our parents.
but i'm on the fence on the issue. very interesting disucssion. in my high school years, i got the "we're not angry at you, we're just really dissapointed" speech a lot... that one always got me.
MAN... I thought I was only one who thought he was talking about smacking kids at first.....
personally: my father is a dentist so there were never any pops in my house.
OK seriously now:
I remember goofing off with my bro after bedtime and hearing "the wooden spoon drawer" open... interestingly enough I don't remember it ever being implimented on me.....
my dad's most creative technique was akin to "time out."
I had to stand in the corner on my tip-toes. Not only was this an effective means of taking me away from play-time, but it also added some a tinge of physical dis-comfort. and, I have some ridiculously large calves :)
God this thread - inlcuding my old responses - is depressing. Being a parent is so unbelievably difficult. Incredibly joyful, and so f*cking difficult.
After reading all of this, I'm curious about the "talking to the kids" methods and I guess what their foundational principles would be...like the "do unto others.." philosophy or something like that? (That's just a guess though.) What would be said? The talks I mean, I guess are good, but stating the fact of it alone is not necessarily... it. It's the content, the message dilivered--at this point that I'm trying to grasp a hold of. I mean what works?
I trust that all of the people who advocate the non-violence approach have it worked out on how and what to say. 'Cause I sure don't.(?)
BAsed on the children I've encountered, I'd have to agree with e wholeheartedly. Parenting's got to be easier than architecture, otherwise I would have met at least ONE child I don't want to smack. I constantly find myself thinking, "God, who allows these kids out in public?!"
there are kids all over the place where i live, but NONE downtown. It is funny taking my daughter to see a building and getting stared at by the businessmen and women for daring to bring a child into their world...
sad that people can start to think that lack of children in their life is a positive thing...
anyway, far as spanking goes, well, i was hit by my mum a lot, almost NEVER by my da. and i respected my da a lot more. more to the point I STILL remember the few times he got pissed off with me and i learned to think twice afore doing certain bad things. i learned to tune my mum out...and yet i still spank my kids, now and again, and always would slap their hands when they got too close to the heater. how else to teach a 1 year old in 1 second or less that the flame can burn their hands?
mixed feelings on that, but i am still cowboy enough to believe corporal punishment is valuable, if only to let kids know that not EVERYTHING is open to debate...
"sad that people can start to think that lack of children in their life is a positive thing..."
come on jump. to each his/her own. children are not for everyone. a lot of ppl who have children should not have them because they truly do not understand the gift they possess.
ah but e, wait til you have kids and then someone tells you you ain't welcome with kids at the party/restaurant, etc...has happened to me too often in this big city that i don't wonder at all why the population is falling drastically here. almost as bad as russia...;-)
kids are life. denying them is denying life....
pop for me means a drink (anyone else have pic a pop growing up?)... either that or punching someone. funny ol language, english.
After reading all of this, I'm curious about the "talking to the kids" methods and I guess what their foundational principles would be...like the "do unto others.." philosophy or something like that? (That's just a guess though.) What would be said? The talks I mean, I guess are good, but stating the fact of it alone is not necessarily... it. It's the content, the message dilivered--at this point that I'm trying to grasp a hold of. I mean what works?
I trust that all of the people who advocate the non-violence approach have it worked out on how and what to say. 'Cause I sure don't.(?)
Until then I'm all spanks :P
powers of persuasion?
you can sometimes use, or include, physical methods without need for impacts. time-out can be enforced physically. a parent's patience should be much larger than a toddler's.
and , jump, on how to convince a very young child of "innocent looking" danger. yeah, need a mix of reducing exposure and persistent warning, etc.
in japan heating is usually not central, so we have what amounts to an open flame running in the daytime when it is cold...both my girls know not to touch it, and a lot of that is from telling them not to, but it is also from flicking their hands lightly when they reached for the flame, mostly in the early days...maybe there is a better way to do this, but it worked...and i didn't have to worry about them going for the fire when my back was turned...
will see if they are traumatised when they grow up, but am not so worried.
really, I wouldn't advocate smacking a kid anyway, especially when they are having a tantrum as it don work. but i don't do the time out thing either. usually my wife and i redirect our youngest's attention when she gets crazy, and our oldest pretty much respnds to a stern voice...but we are lucky to have girls...boys i think would be much harder to manage...
look jump, i agree that kids are great, but i don't agree that they are for everyone. some people wish not to have them and a lot of people really should not have them. honestly, a lot of people don't care for them well enough.
i don't plan on having kids, and i doubt at this point in my life, there is much that will change that. you may see kids in your life as a positive thing, and that is great. i'm happy that your kids have had such a positive impact in your life. as i've said before, i have the utmost respect for all parents doing good things for their kids, but do not assume what is good for you is good for me and give me a little respect for my decision.
I just honestly can't see how others can stand kids. I know I'm at an extreme, but I've never met one that's been tolerable. Maybe that's just because I'm in LA? Anyway, the kids I've met either have absolutely no sense that there is anyone else in the world but them, or if they recognize that, they think that we exist to terrorize or to steal from. Given the children I've been exposed to, I just don't get it. So if you can raise one that doesn't scream the whole way through a movie or airplane flight, who doesn't try to snatch my wallet, who doesn't run smack into people because they aren't paying any damned attention where they are going, and who doesn't think that hitting people is entertainment, then I tip my hat to you. But I haven't met one yet.
good age to have kids is between 28 -33 for the first child and 28-37 for the second and third. when i was at that age, none of my girl friends, x wife would want to commit it w/ me to a child or children, due to my messed up life style. i was fun but not a father material for people who wanted to see guarantees that i was gonna be on for the rest of my life and committed to the family. there were few accidents that got taken care of. no i don't regret not having kids. actually i am now glad it didn't happen. people like me looked at not having the full experience of life because lack of kids but thats baloney. i am no stranger to kids and we were all a kid once. but being a parent is a choice these days combined with certain incidents and choices.
i think kids should know how to behave and learn/thought to respect elder people specially to the parents.
i see kids these days, 4-5 years olds, argueing with their parents and stupid ass parents argueing back... i was popped a very few times in most critical moments in my childhood. thank mom, thank you dad...
I don't have kids either. But I can definately agree with a swat to the butt if a kid does something really dangerous and you kind of need to get their immediate attention. I was talking to my mom about that this weekend before I even know about this thread. I know I got a few smacks on the butt when I was little, but no lasting memories of SPANKINGS or BEATINGS. But I also never got in trouble when I was little. It's weird. I just didn't do stupid stuff. I just played and hung out and ate my veggies and cleaned my room and that was it. No one ever had to tell me to do that stuff, I just did it. I think how a kid acts is a combination of a kid's own predisposed personality that you have no real control over, and then just ingraining responsibility from a young age. Just making sure they understand what they need to do in the family, cleaning up toys etc. I agree with the statement, "you are the parent, not their friend." That's doesn't imply beating and screaming, but the way some parents just let their kids trounce all over them is messed up.
I don't agree with when you see these parents dragging their screaming kid around by the arm at the mall and smacking their asses and stuff. That's not solving the problem. I see a huge concentration of terrible parenting in Philly. It's unreal. These women dragging their screaming kids around, smacking their asses, yelling "If you don't shut your f!@$ing mouth I'm gonna beat your ass!" I've seen it other places, sure, but I see it with uncomfortable frequencey here. It's really bad.
Hmm, just read all of this, and there are some excellent ideas and points of view on here on BOTH sides of the fence. I personally know which side I would probably come down on, depending on about 8 million variables. I also agree with Hasselhoff in thinking that a big chunk of parenting probably depends on the pre-disposition of the kid--I've met too many kids to think that nurture is 100% cause of a kid's behaviour.
Anyhow, just one thing I wanted to point out, to the person who asked that we think of any animals that spank their children:
It's not a good analogy, as few in the animal world have babies that need as much care and teaching as human babies do. I think only primate babies have a long infancy period and you do in fact see monkey moms swatting at their kids periodically--AND their children are not as helpless as ours are for as long a period.
I think jump points out something smart in reference to this: we are not born with the instincts that other animals are, which is why we NEED parents to TEACH us the things we don't know from birth. One example is to teach about danger, such as from fire. Very young children simply do not yet have the capacity for reason and in the absence of reason it is nearly impossible to get a kid to understand something he/she cannot comprehend through his own senses. Swatting a kid away from fire is an absolutely necessary part of raising him/her.
I just think it is very misleading to look to the animal kingdom for "natural" parenting advice!
Last night during my sleep cycle I had a dream about this thread - bizarre, I know - and I awoke at dawn remembering that I had spoken of the "Bad Book" some friends of ours employed with their three boys at the time. In 2005 at the time of my response the boys were three, six, and ten. Their names are irrelevant.
A portion of my response is excerpted below for the sake of context:
What they do with their kids instead of spanking is show them photographs of terrible events from history (Hiroshima aftermath, ravaged clothes on a child all alone, or pictures of famined Ethopian children, or, a Deliverance type of photo of filthy backwoods boys using a tire swing for entertainment) and somehow the kids do an about-face immediatly.
I felt it both appropriate and enlightening to inform those who participated in this conversation and perhaps even feigned shock or disappointment at the very idea of the "Bad Book" that the three boys have lived truly exemplary lives ever since. They are now 17, 20, and 24. The youngest developed an affinity for robotics and collected dozens of Nintendo R.O.B. (Robotic Operating Buddy) robots, along with game platforms, and donated the majority of them to impoverished children throughout the United States. The middle son is in his second year of university and only experienced one setback along his path of adolescence. In his mid-teens, he was caught attempting to break into a small petting zoo to free animals living in cramped cages. Police authorities arrived and discovered him, his girlfriend, and two other boys using an acetylene cutting torch to cut through the facility's exterior fencing. His heart was in the right place but the judge's was not: he served 1,600 hours of community service throughout the following two years to avoid jail time. In college, he is interested in studying the brain. The eldest son finished college in 2017 and is a successful, proud homosexual in the early phase of a career in pharmaceutical science.
I still find it odd that I dreamt of this post but I felt it would be a kind action on my part to update you about any negative or positive repercussions of the Bad Book. Looking back it does indeed seem like it was a heavy-handed tactic to keep young children in line, and I am pleased I can report that as odd as it was, these boys have turned out quite well.
the fact that your lead-in is some twisted metaphor between a soft drink and hitting your children suggests that you have you should probably work through your own issues of being hit as a child prior to repeating the behavior as an acceptable solution.
Odd post resurrection here... and I have significant reservations about that "bad book" (not to mention an abhorrent reaction to any corporal punishment), but I read through most of the first page while I wait for the coffee machine to do its thing... and this post byb3tadine[sutures]14 years ago is very good:
"Just go to a 2 year old kids party and watch the different aged children, watch how the parents try and direct the youngest kids, it's laughable. The youngest kids spend about 5 seconds doing what their parents want, and then its off to do whatever, following the whimsy of their own brain. The wolf child of every child should be embraced and let alone within reason to explore the world in an honest way."
We're knee deep in hospital and therapy sessions for our own toddler due to an array of speech and other cognitive delays ranging from severe to mild. b3ta's post made me smile.
Mar 7, 19 9:01 am ·
·
JonathanLivingston
Non, I have young children now too. I feel for you and the work you are doing with your toddler. I have been dealing with some intense emotions around realizing that my oldest is dyslexic and probably has ADD. Just look me. I passed it along and I know the pain it caused me in school and socially as a child.
Mar 7, 19 4:39 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
Thanks, we had an assessment earlier today and things are looking positive for now. More are scheduled tho.
I have three children, and I have never struck any of them. I personally don’t think it’s ever appropriate or necessary to hit a child. There are plenty of ways to handle disagreements with children that don’t include striking them.
Not necessary trolling but definitely a creative writer, his thread about a 30 year old forced to get a haircut really made me laugh. Archinect is now so serious and sterile compared to the early years.
Parents: Okay to give a kid a pop here and there?
fascinating story about childhood memory USCErin - thanks for sharing.
As a parent of a 7 year old girl and 3 year old boy, I can comment on this. I was just looking at another thread where the OP asked everyone to name their 30 favorite Architecture books. For me and I am sure most of the parents here, my kids are even more important tome then architecture, I wonder how many people have over 30 parenting books.
I know booksmarts only go so far in this realm but they can be a good place to start. I can't think of one book that has a single possitive thing to say about hitting a kid, besides maybe that a__hole from "Focus on the Family"
We have never hit or spanked either of ours, but I agree with a lot of what "o+ " says, besides his/her final action of spanking(no matter how mildly). Parents must be consistent and must mean what they say, and follow it up with action. A child must have a consequence for acting out and not listening when told to stop. We have found that the consequence can be just about anything, not having a bedtime story, not having a sweet treat, whatever but you can't cave on it a half hour later when they are not acting out, and both parents have to be on the same page.
On the rare occasion when we do raise our voices our kids know it is time to listen up and fast.
Our kids have gone to Waldorf School and one thing that sold me on it was watching the kindergarten teacher deal with a roomful of unruley kids. When they had an open house for perspective familiies, we went and our daughter joined a roomful of 2 and 3 year olds that were in a classroom for the firsttime. The teacher was sitting there quitly at first but when she decided she wanted the childrens attention she sang int the quitest voice "children gather round, children gather round" and they did. They were all silent waiting to hear what she would say next.
One more thing, with my 3 year old especially distraction is the first tool I reach for, if he is fixated on something and getting frustrated with it, "if I think" I can come up with something that will distract him. Something like, "Did I tell you that I heard a new story about a Knight that got cornered by a Dragon. You may finish getting dressed and then I will tell you."
My father spanked me a few times up until I was about 8 yrs old. I think it was ok. I never fought in school or was disrespectful to my parents or anyone else. In fact it made me very aware of my parents authority. Sure, later in life I did act out or had a bad temper sometimes. It was part of growing up. I can't say it had anything to do with my getting spanked. Today, I have two boys who sometimes can be a handful. They usually get one swat on the butt to get their attention. It works. They mainly get the other types of punishments like "time out" They work too. I sense that I should try harder to not spank. After reading this it makes me think that I'll think twice. By the way those Nanny shows do offer good advice/ methods.
We should really start a new thread... "How were you beaten as a child?"
Did anyone else get spanked with a fly-swatter as a child? I did. I asked my Mom about it a few days ago while reading her some of the finer posts from this thread. She really lost it when I suggested a memory of my bare bottom being spanked with the fly-swatter, while it was still covered in the dried guts of flies that met the fate throughout the year.
monte....thats disgusting...
and cool at the same time
but yes- i agree with spanking here and there. not overdone b/c like roaches in the ghetto- they adapt and it no longer affects them.
fortunately for me i have a menacing looking face (although still goodlooking if ah might say so maself!) and the kid stops in her tracks with that stare. yknow- like a christopher walken pissed off kind of stare. then if the action ensues comes my swift open hand drafting strengthened hand to the heiney.
more crying, but she'll never do it again
Good Lord this has become one of the longest threads ever on the Archinect!
Well this is why I love talking with other architects - when architects chat the lighthearted topics produce funny comments and the serious topics produce considered comments that are thoughtful and intelligent.
I try to talk about parenting with nurses or lawyers or schoolteachers and we just never quite connect as well as I do with my architect friends.
Must be that well-rounded cultural and technical education we all have.
AND
-OR.
absolutely. Although fists may not be enough. A frag may be necessary. But either way, parents smacking their kid about are more likely to create the bully, than to create the self-defensive good guy.
if an "attractive nuisance" :-) exists just out of reach of their kid, the kid should soon be struggling to escape parents grasp. (this is "the carrot" method of being sure the toddler ventures out on his-her own.)
BLAST FROM THE PAST!!
i seemed to have missed it first time around...
my wife and i do not spank our girls - period. i figure i'm really modelling some pretty slippery slope behavior if i show them what it looks like when i lose my temper in a position of authority.
my wife and i both really appreciate the wisdom in this book...
dude, I STILL read that first entry and think the guy's talking about soda!
can't comment as i am nowhere near having kids. but my sister and i were spanked as children and feel like we came out ok. we're well adjusted and neither of us ever had even a hint of behavioral problems in school. we have a great relationship with our parents.
but i'm on the fence on the issue. very interesting disucssion. in my high school years, i got the "we're not angry at you, we're just really dissapointed" speech a lot... that one always got me.
and hold off the soda. it's bad for the teeth.
MAN... I thought I was only one who thought he was talking about smacking kids at first.....
personally: my father is a dentist so there were never any pops in my house.
OK seriously now:
I remember goofing off with my bro after bedtime and hearing "the wooden spoon drawer" open... interestingly enough I don't remember it ever being implimented on me.....
implelemented (my appologees SBChamp)
shit...just... nevermind...
"Good Lord this has become one of the longest threads ever on the Archinect!"....?
Pops?
wow. what a thread...
my dad's most creative technique was akin to "time out."
I had to stand in the corner on my tip-toes. Not only was this an effective means of taking me away from play-time, but it also added some a tinge of physical dis-comfort. and, I have some ridiculously large calves :)
pops for the whole family!!
I agree with ACFA. The "we're dissapointed" speech worked well in middle and high school.
God this thread - inlcuding my old responses - is depressing. Being a parent is so unbelievably difficult. Incredibly joyful, and so f*cking difficult.
Oh, so it's like architecture?
i think architecture is way easier than being a parent, and i'm no parent. i have the utmost respect for parents doing good things for their kids.
After reading all of this, I'm curious about the "talking to the kids" methods and I guess what their foundational principles would be...like the "do unto others.." philosophy or something like that? (That's just a guess though.) What would be said? The talks I mean, I guess are good, but stating the fact of it alone is not necessarily... it. It's the content, the message dilivered--at this point that I'm trying to grasp a hold of. I mean what works?
I trust that all of the people who advocate the non-violence approach have it worked out on how and what to say. 'Cause I sure don't.(?)
Until then I'm all spanks :P
BAsed on the children I've encountered, I'd have to agree with e wholeheartedly. Parenting's got to be easier than architecture, otherwise I would have met at least ONE child I don't want to smack. I constantly find myself thinking, "God, who allows these kids out in public?!"
durr, I meant that Architecture's got to be easier than Parenting, not the other way around...
hah...
there are kids all over the place where i live, but NONE downtown. It is funny taking my daughter to see a building and getting stared at by the businessmen and women for daring to bring a child into their world...
sad that people can start to think that lack of children in their life is a positive thing...
anyway, far as spanking goes, well, i was hit by my mum a lot, almost NEVER by my da. and i respected my da a lot more. more to the point I STILL remember the few times he got pissed off with me and i learned to think twice afore doing certain bad things. i learned to tune my mum out...and yet i still spank my kids, now and again, and always would slap their hands when they got too close to the heater. how else to teach a 1 year old in 1 second or less that the flame can burn their hands?
mixed feelings on that, but i am still cowboy enough to believe corporal punishment is valuable, if only to let kids know that not EVERYTHING is open to debate...
"sad that people can start to think that lack of children in their life is a positive thing..."
come on jump. to each his/her own. children are not for everyone. a lot of ppl who have children should not have them because they truly do not understand the gift they possess.
I love it! "Pop". I feel like I am home again. Woooo!
Oh wait. Not pop? Not soda? Oh.
ah but e, wait til you have kids and then someone tells you you ain't welcome with kids at the party/restaurant, etc...has happened to me too often in this big city that i don't wonder at all why the population is falling drastically here. almost as bad as russia...;-)
kids are life. denying them is denying life....
pop for me means a drink (anyone else have pic a pop growing up?)... either that or punching someone. funny ol language, english.
Scroatatoes !..worry not !!
If he's doing that your kid could grow up to be a great starchitect someday !!!
After reading all of this, I'm curious about the "talking to the kids" methods and I guess what their foundational principles would be...like the "do unto others.." philosophy or something like that? (That's just a guess though.) What would be said? The talks I mean, I guess are good, but stating the fact of it alone is not necessarily... it. It's the content, the message dilivered--at this point that I'm trying to grasp a hold of. I mean what works?
I trust that all of the people who advocate the non-violence approach have it worked out on how and what to say. 'Cause I sure don't.(?)
Until then I'm all spanks :P
powers of persuasion?
you can sometimes use, or include, physical methods without need for impacts. time-out can be enforced physically. a parent's patience should be much larger than a toddler's.
and , jump, on how to convince a very young child of "innocent looking" danger. yeah, need a mix of reducing exposure and persistent warning, etc.
yeh, that is a tough one.
in japan heating is usually not central, so we have what amounts to an open flame running in the daytime when it is cold...both my girls know not to touch it, and a lot of that is from telling them not to, but it is also from flicking their hands lightly when they reached for the flame, mostly in the early days...maybe there is a better way to do this, but it worked...and i didn't have to worry about them going for the fire when my back was turned...
will see if they are traumatised when they grow up, but am not so worried.
really, I wouldn't advocate smacking a kid anyway, especially when they are having a tantrum as it don work. but i don't do the time out thing either. usually my wife and i redirect our youngest's attention when she gets crazy, and our oldest pretty much respnds to a stern voice...but we are lucky to have girls...boys i think would be much harder to manage...
Pop the kid once, show him/her whose boss, otherwise they'll grow up and talk back to you, slam the door in your face, and show no respect.
Start while they're young.
look jump, i agree that kids are great, but i don't agree that they are for everyone. some people wish not to have them and a lot of people really should not have them. honestly, a lot of people don't care for them well enough.
i don't plan on having kids, and i doubt at this point in my life, there is much that will change that. you may see kids in your life as a positive thing, and that is great. i'm happy that your kids have had such a positive impact in your life. as i've said before, i have the utmost respect for all parents doing good things for their kids, but do not assume what is good for you is good for me and give me a little respect for my decision.
I just honestly can't see how others can stand kids. I know I'm at an extreme, but I've never met one that's been tolerable. Maybe that's just because I'm in LA? Anyway, the kids I've met either have absolutely no sense that there is anyone else in the world but them, or if they recognize that, they think that we exist to terrorize or to steal from. Given the children I've been exposed to, I just don't get it. So if you can raise one that doesn't scream the whole way through a movie or airplane flight, who doesn't try to snatch my wallet, who doesn't run smack into people because they aren't paying any damned attention where they are going, and who doesn't think that hitting people is entertainment, then I tip my hat to you. But I haven't met one yet.
good age to have kids is between 28 -33 for the first child and 28-37 for the second and third. when i was at that age, none of my girl friends, x wife would want to commit it w/ me to a child or children, due to my messed up life style. i was fun but not a father material for people who wanted to see guarantees that i was gonna be on for the rest of my life and committed to the family. there were few accidents that got taken care of. no i don't regret not having kids. actually i am now glad it didn't happen. people like me looked at not having the full experience of life because lack of kids but thats baloney. i am no stranger to kids and we were all a kid once. but being a parent is a choice these days combined with certain incidents and choices.
i think kids should know how to behave and learn/thought to respect elder people specially to the parents.
i see kids these days, 4-5 years olds, argueing with their parents and stupid ass parents argueing back... i was popped a very few times in most critical moments in my childhood. thank mom, thank you dad...
I don't have kids either. But I can definately agree with a swat to the butt if a kid does something really dangerous and you kind of need to get their immediate attention. I was talking to my mom about that this weekend before I even know about this thread. I know I got a few smacks on the butt when I was little, but no lasting memories of SPANKINGS or BEATINGS. But I also never got in trouble when I was little. It's weird. I just didn't do stupid stuff. I just played and hung out and ate my veggies and cleaned my room and that was it. No one ever had to tell me to do that stuff, I just did it. I think how a kid acts is a combination of a kid's own predisposed personality that you have no real control over, and then just ingraining responsibility from a young age. Just making sure they understand what they need to do in the family, cleaning up toys etc. I agree with the statement, "you are the parent, not their friend." That's doesn't imply beating and screaming, but the way some parents just let their kids trounce all over them is messed up.
I don't agree with when you see these parents dragging their screaming kid around by the arm at the mall and smacking their asses and stuff. That's not solving the problem. I see a huge concentration of terrible parenting in Philly. It's unreal. These women dragging their screaming kids around, smacking their asses, yelling "If you don't shut your f!@$ing mouth I'm gonna beat your ass!" I've seen it other places, sure, but I see it with uncomfortable frequencey here. It's really bad.
Dude, I just looked at Scroatoes threads - only three EVER and they are all hilarious. Where did this guy go?
Talk About F'd Up!
http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=26960_0_42_0_C
Help Needed From Car Enthusiasts (or how to make a car backfire to scare cyclists and children)
http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=22361_0_42_0_C
Hmm, just read all of this, and there are some excellent ideas and points of view on here on BOTH sides of the fence. I personally know which side I would probably come down on, depending on about 8 million variables. I also agree with Hasselhoff in thinking that a big chunk of parenting probably depends on the pre-disposition of the kid--I've met too many kids to think that nurture is 100% cause of a kid's behaviour.
Anyhow, just one thing I wanted to point out, to the person who asked that we think of any animals that spank their children:
It's not a good analogy, as few in the animal world have babies that need as much care and teaching as human babies do. I think only primate babies have a long infancy period and you do in fact see monkey moms swatting at their kids periodically--AND their children are not as helpless as ours are for as long a period.
I think jump points out something smart in reference to this: we are not born with the instincts that other animals are, which is why we NEED parents to TEACH us the things we don't know from birth. One example is to teach about danger, such as from fire. Very young children simply do not yet have the capacity for reason and in the absence of reason it is nearly impossible to get a kid to understand something he/she cannot comprehend through his own senses. Swatting a kid away from fire is an absolutely necessary part of raising him/her.
I just think it is very misleading to look to the animal kingdom for "natural" parenting advice!
Last night during my sleep cycle I had a dream about this thread - bizarre, I know - and I awoke at dawn remembering that I had spoken of the "Bad Book" some friends of ours employed with their three boys at the time. In 2005 at the time of my response the boys were three, six, and ten. Their names are irrelevant.
A portion of my response is excerpted below for the sake of context:
What they do with their kids instead of spanking is show them photographs of terrible events from history (Hiroshima aftermath, ravaged clothes on a child all alone, or pictures of famined Ethopian children, or, a Deliverance type of photo of filthy backwoods boys using a tire swing for entertainment) and somehow the kids do an about-face immediatly.
I felt it both appropriate and enlightening to inform those who participated in this conversation and perhaps even feigned shock or disappointment at the very idea of the "Bad Book" that the three boys have lived truly exemplary lives ever since. They are now 17, 20, and 24. The youngest developed an affinity for robotics and collected dozens of Nintendo R.O.B. (Robotic Operating Buddy) robots, along with game platforms, and donated the majority of them to impoverished children throughout the United States. The middle son is in his second year of university and only experienced one setback along his path of adolescence. In his mid-teens, he was caught attempting to break into a small petting zoo to free animals living in cramped cages. Police authorities arrived and discovered him, his girlfriend, and two other boys using an acetylene cutting torch to cut through the facility's exterior fencing. His heart was in the right place but the judge's was not: he served 1,600 hours of community service throughout the following two years to avoid jail time. In college, he is interested in studying the brain. The eldest son finished college in 2017 and is a successful, proud homosexual in the early phase of a career in pharmaceutical science.
I still find it odd that I dreamt of this post but I felt it would be a kind action on my part to update you about any negative or positive repercussions of the Bad Book. Looking back it does indeed seem like it was a heavy-handed tactic to keep young children in line, and I am pleased I can report that as odd as it was, these boys have turned out quite well.
Wow, Manteno. I don’t know if this is real or not but I love it if it is!
Okay, so this thread is a teenager now...(and not about giving kids fizzy drinks)
...or perhaps also about giving fizzy drinks
fizzy drinks require Rye or top-shelf Gin.
So can you smack the thread if its misbehaving at that age ?
The thread will most likely run away from home if you try.
the fact that your lead-in is some twisted metaphor between a soft drink and hitting your children suggests that you have you should probably work through your own issues of being hit as a child prior to repeating the behavior as an acceptable solution.
Odd post resurrection here... and I have significant reservations about that "bad book" (not to mention an abhorrent reaction to any corporal punishment), but I read through most of the first page while I wait for the coffee machine to do its thing... and this post by b3tadine[sutures] 14 years ago is very good:
"Just go to a 2 year old kids party and watch the different aged children, watch how the parents try and direct the youngest kids, it's laughable. The youngest kids spend about 5 seconds doing what their parents want, and then its off to do whatever, following the whimsy of their own brain. The wolf child of every child should be embraced and let alone within reason to explore the world in an honest way."
We're knee deep in hospital and therapy sessions for our own toddler due to an array of speech and other cognitive delays ranging from severe to mild. b3ta's post made me smile.
Non, I have young children now too. I feel for you and the work you are doing with your toddler. I have been dealing with some intense emotions around realizing that my oldest is dyslexic and probably has ADD. Just look me. I passed it along and I know the pain it caused me in school and socially as a child.
Thanks, we had an assessment earlier today and things are looking positive for now. More are scheduled tho.
Didn't realize this was a childcare forum...
Since some on here act like children it makes total sense.
I have three children, and I have never struck any of them. I personally don’t think it’s ever appropriate or necessary to hit a child. There are plenty of ways to handle disagreements with children that don’t include striking them.
Doesn't anyone else read the OP as a long-winded but obvious trolling?
Not necessary trolling but definitely a creative writer, his thread about a 30 year old forced to get a haircut really made me laugh. Archinect is now so serious and sterile compared to the early years.
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