I wonder what it will take for Europeans to realize that they are dealing with a hijrah of an even greater scale than the 8th century and start acting accordingly.
^b b b buuuut that would mean a rejection of the religion of peace and the primitives who spread it. Wouldn't want that. And certainly not borders. Borders are far too logical.
have a couple architectural solutions here: the ratio of pubs and adult establishments must be triple the crazies religious venue's square footage in any neighborhood. gender free bathrooms must be installed in these religious venues. a airport like security check out at these crazies religious venue. security camera on every block of declared crazies. ...
Please.. the ISIS is a terrorist organization the uses religion as a cover for it or probably to attract victimized Syrian or Iraqi poor people and getting them to carry out such terrorist operations in the pretext of religion, we all know that what behind this is way way bigger than Mohammed's mocked drawing or whatever..there're certainly people benefiting from all of this crap..
i am torn between what atrracts the disenfranchised who often resort to such actions (Columbine, Virginia Tech, and "terrorism",etc....) and a religion that allows and spawns groups like this. There obviosly is a set of ideals and values within this religion that attracts, breeds, and encourages such behavior.....Are guns the problem or the people that use them? Guns are at least real.....Architecturally designing shared religious venues, banning noise polution (prayer) and rewriting the symbolism could help. in my research into the history of the Synogoue, in predominantly Christian countries the Synogoues built would never be taller than the Church at exterior, so they would lower the assembly area at interior to actually be higher than the Church. you could redesign the mineret to fly the coutries flag, or some other sign of respect to the host. otherwise its just blatant inperial colonial behavior to plant your culture so brazingly in a host county.
Stop deluding yourself, America. This is not a political movement using Islam as a ruse to hide its true agenda. It is Islam itself when interpreted literally. "Slay the infidel" and all the rest is in the Koran. You can read it yourself. The Islamists will happily tell that to anyone who will listen. They aren't ashamed or secretive. It is Westerners who refuse to see what is in front of them, because they are terrified of the implications, namely that not all cultures and peoples can live in peace and harmony under a benevolent and tolerant democratic government. Sometimes there are irreconcilable differences that can't changed.
you can blame Islam as long as you wish, but again you're missing the big picture..
lose the religion, and you'll create a chaos in the host countries.. as you said .." not all cultures and peoples can live in peace and harmony under a benevolent and tolerant democratic government. Sometimes there are irreconcilable differences that can't changed "!
" It is Islam itself"- If it is Islam itself then we would be witnessing world war III by now, I don't know if it rally say "Slay the infidel" or if it say it within a historical context- better you quote the complete sentence.. anyway, i'm not religious and this not a place to discuss religion, but I assure you religion was the pretext not the motivation..
Olfa- I assume you're referring to me when you say " blatant inperial colonial behavior to plant your culture so brazingly in a host county ".. then only if you insist calling it my culture, how do explain that I personally had to leave my "host country" because neither me nor any citizen in my country could stand the chaotic situation created there when they opened the door for huge numbers of the population adversely affected every aspect of our lives! how do you explain the ISIS capturing that Jordanian pilot and burning him alive a year ago? is that also Islamic? cultural? i'm pretty sure they belong to the same religion and culture
when text like "thou shalt make no covenant with them nor shew mercy unto them. Neither shalt thou make marriages with them," is embraced as the basis for acceptable behaviors of terror and hate, we need to be mindful of the acts of terrors associated with it.
zaina i was not. and this religion is the problem and any culture that acknowledges it legitimate existence on a moderate level as you so clearly point out. it is naive western liberalism that tolerates such hate as an acceptable culture. it is your obligation as a human to not tolerate such ignorance and if that means reforming or rewriting an entire religion and culture, to cut the head off the beast, then so be it. delete parts of the texts, delete books, disown the name and become free. find a new propjet or messiah. to thoroughly distance the unfortunate moderates who remain connected to such extremism, your only option is to disconnect.l completely. this is no different than moderate racism or sexism. fraternity of men that might turn a blind eye to charges of sexism or white members of country clubs that just kind of ignore KKK members carrying on. by claiming a moderate position in this religion and culture you continue to support the extremism. start with architecture. the redesign of religious venues, symoblism. write ordinances that ban 5 times a day prayer because its offensive to thise who di not practice or pulled an all nighter in studio.
zaina, i have been trying to squeeze architecture in and in the oast as you wondered about war and architecture i have suggested articles by people such as Paul Virillio.
design a gender neutral assembly of prayer with seating pointing in any direction. no prostrating on a rug required.........design a confession booth?.....a while ago someone i met for a second was recreating damaged ancient architecture in 3d for virtual experience after these assholes had blown them up - to paraphrase his intent - doing this to stick it to these barbarians, you can't kill civilazation. simple act if 3d restoration of world treasures damaged by angry hater mongers is a simple architectural solution. ......invent design competions that rewrite the religions nature.
Olaf- I though you would be a kind of person who would have Little more awareness than this.. I can't believe what you just said.. listen, I'm not the right person to discuss religious matters with.. i'm not a prophet, and it's not my obligation to change the people's beliefs, i don't belong to any extremist gang, a religion, or even a country in particular. the world is my place, and i'm nothing but an architect! still, what you just said insulted me and stroke deep in my heart which was your intent anyway because as you have deep respect for America despite of what we all see and know starting from racial discrimination of "white and black" to terrorism and the list goes on , I have respect for this religion ... the same amount of respect I have for "Denmark" the country where I was born when at the same time I'm very proud I'm Jordanian..
and btw thanks for suggesting articles by people such as Paul Virillio which I already found and read.. I hope you did not think I was stuck with my research at the points we discussed because I now have a lot of interesting information in the light, and I'll share my research paper with you guys at the end of this semester.
geezertect: the Christian bible says to stone your daughter to death if she is raped. No contemporary practicing Christians in the US follow this rule, and no one judges them based on an outdated barbaric instruction from their holy book. Muslims deserve the same consideration.
In Turkey a few months ago a family buried their daughter alive because she was getting too "western" in her thinking. Some bullshit about a family "honor" killing.
Volunteer- is similar to the crap in U.S when some families become disjointed and kids involve in drug dealing when the father die or run away and the mother spend her time drinking.. :p this is common among specific class of people.. it's about the individuals themselves and how they interact with their environment!
Sometime we go for whole weeks around here without killing our children. Then there are the assholes in Saudi Arabia that chopped the head off their own "princess" because she was messing around with someone else. They made him watch and then chopped off his head as well. To hell with these people.
What Donna said. Religious or ideological fundamentalism of any flavor is a cancer on society. How many people here in the US have been murdered in cold blood by terrorists acting in the name of Christianity? Oklahoma City, lynchings, bombings of black churches, murders of abortion providers and LBGT people all come to mind. George Bush spawned ISIS in 2003 by invading Iraq because he thinks God told him to do it. Today, the front-runner for a major political party, with massive backing by Christian extremists, wants to forcibly round up and deport 11 million people from US soil, which would be the largest ethnic cleansing operation in human history.
Atrocities have been committed all over the world in the name of Christianity, Zionism, Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, tribalism, you name it. Once ideology becomes more important than empathy, any number of sacred texts can be cherry-picked to justify the bloodshed that follows. If you seriously think Muslims have a monopoly on violent extremism, then you're part of the problem.
The Muslims seem to have the corner on the extremist market in Paris, don't they? Meanwhile we have a sack of shit in the White House who can't even use the words "Islamic extremists". Fuck him, too. So, yes, go ahead and list me as part of the problem.
hindu and Buddhist atrocities? there are bad things that happen in Buddhist countries, but that would be more a case of a military junta trying to hold power, or hindu countries facing serious problems with overcrowding, poverty, lack of resources, or something like that. i don't think you're going to see someone claim to kill another based on devout faith in either of those religions though, are you? self-immolation maybe. still though, to compare the polytheists to the monotheists doesn't make sense to me.
volunteer, in a country built on religious tolerance and freedom, the leader shouldn't be inciting internal violence against a specific religion. that would breech the separation between church and state, wouldn't it? there are many good muslims and other non-christian people in america. we would be better off getting rid of the nuts like you that want to foment prejudice rather than getting rid of decent people that want to practice their religion in peace.
Zaina I have lots of awareness and that is why I said what I said. by the way I haven't been specific, check my text. I never named any religion actually. the big 3 are all related anyway.
by prolonging these religions we only prolong the ignorance.
by naively defending a religion that is clearly the source of the most successful extremists on the planet currently you only prolong the atrocities. nothing wrong with condemning a religion, specifically portions of the religion that are blatantly wrong.
religion is a choice. so is culture.
again, if you're culture, wherever it may be allows a religion of this kind to subsist, you have to ask how do you change that?
as noted we are architects so what are the solutions as architects?
Religion has little to do with why some people join these extremist groups. Religion is used as a tool of recruitment and control, but I would bet that the real reasons are very similar to why people join gangs...
Capitalism can be described as a fundamentalist religion.
ISIS is a terrorist organization the uses religion as a cover
The US is a terrorist organization the uses religion(s) as a cover.
Democracy is a code word for capitalism delivered at the point of a gun. Economic interests are running the show via strategic control of energy resources (both for profit and for control of who gets to use them) and a for-profit military (the corporate-industrial-military complex). These are simply the two most blatantly transparent and obvious aspects of US foreign policy.
If they wanted to put a stop to this shit they would stop doing the things that drive it. We've been mucking around in the Middle East - for our own benefit - since WWII. With the advent of drone technology we've been indiscriminately raining death and destruction on civilians and should not be surprised that this exacerbates rather then resolves ongoing wars. But the goal is not to put out the fire - it is to fan the flames in order to justify further military spending, invasions, destabilization of sovereign countries, revocation of constitutional rights, etc.
I give the human race 20 years before we set off a full blown ww3...a minority of Fucking deranged and greedy assholes on all sides ruining this beautiful world for the rest....
I think the solution is to continue the practice of engineering civil wars and knocking out secular governments that challenge our hegemony in the region. Of course maintaining open alliances with nations that house the ideological framework for fanaticism is a necessary evil in keeping certain resources connected to our currency while also acting as a bulwark against the real bad guys (the Ruskies!). We will of course flirt with challenging the fanatics on the ground, but take care not to hurt them too much so that certain governments do not become emboldened. Our strategies will result in blow-back, but hey, that's what it takes to run an empire in the modern era.
Oh wow, see what a saturday can do. The problem is not Islam, but the radicals who interpret it for their own benefits.
I wish the Parisian government had doubled down on the "disenfranchised minorities" much like happened in the US after 9/11. Sure, a lot of my friends with muslim origins had to go to "report" to the FBI every other week, but so far we havent had an attack. The french were just too soft on these fuckers.
Olaf- it seems that it never happened that you followed the news.. if you follow the news you'll see that Muslim civilians is Syria and Iraq are targeted by ISIS.. you'll also find that governments like the Jordanian and Turkish government are fighting against this organization, and if it happen and you visit those countries you'd experience the tough security measures there out of fearing a coming terrorist attack... so stop telling it's religious, it is only religious for the terrorists who executed the operation! and there are many ways to induce those uneducated mentally disordered terrorists to carry out such operations other than religion .. the solution starts with a decision from your government to stop funding this kind of organizations! you want to fight terrorism with architecture? LOL ok give them decent homes after they lost everything in the civil war and maybe this'll preserve their mental health..!!
I'm for rounding up two groups; people that supported the war in Iraq, and everyone that thinks rounding up, and injecting Muslims with tracking chips is a good idea.
Zaina, I think you're oversimplifying what's happening in the region. It's interesting that you use Turkey and Jordan as your examples since those two countries (Turkey especially) played an implicit role in bringing about the collapse of Syrian state cohesion through their blind and enthusiastic support for any group that would help them bring down Assad. Don't forget that ISIS was lumped in to the greater "Syrian opposition" by most governments and media until they formally declared themselves a caliphate in 2014 and launched their offensives in Iraq & Syria. The Syrian "opposition" received enormous amounts of financial aid (of course approved by the USA) from Gulf States, where the majority of the capital went to the groups with demonstrated results on the ground (aka the fanatics actually capturing territory against Assad). Even top officials in the United States admitted in declassified documents that as early as 2012, the most effective groups on the ground challenging Assad were the Muslim fundamentalist groups like Al Nusra Front or ISIS, and not the so-called phantom 'moderates.' Most of the money and weapons went to those groups early in the conflict. No one expected however for the Frankenstein monster to attack not just Assad, but any group that dares challenge its authority (this includes France, US, Russia, Iran, Shias, Kurds, etc.)
Additionally, the assertion that this group is not religious does a disservice to moderate Muslims everywhere. They are very religious, very organized, and they know exactly what they are doing. No amount of social media campaigning can deny the similarities between the way they operate, and the overall structure of the religion today lead by countries like Saudi Arabia and upcoming despots like Erdogan. The only difference is that they are more direct in how they do things and put their money where their mouth is.
Anyway, what happened in Paris is horrible of course, but the attempts by multiple people (from all sides) to oversimplify these developments based on their own world view is naive at best.
This article from The Atlantic does a pretty good job in analyzing the ISIS phenomenon:
Zaina I see you got my humor now, and you've come around to rational understanding of what architecture can and can't do. Architecture without politics is not political.
here is a blog though you may want to check out with this new perspective on reality http://thefunambulist.net/
one of the countries you mentioned had a super-hero man bring his country into the 20th century, but recently due to this ideological virus, direct strories from sources who have been within the country - the devolution has begun and reversed much of this super-hero's work.
further to the east is a nation who once worshipped the sun and enjoyed centuries of intellectual prosperity adopted this ideology as a government - theocracy, also known as idiocracy. without civil war or invasion, they manage to loose between 100k-200k of their brightest to the west. why? is the virus infiltrated with satanic verses?
moderates are people who tolerate the extremism within their own ideology. thank god most religious people are not fundamentalist.
Donald Trump has proposed the only architectural solution to all of this - a Wall. Leopold Lambert talks about walls a lot.
France and Europe have a difficult problem integrating immigrants and in the case of France non Catholics into society. Architecturally they house Muslims and other immigrants from the former French empire in suburban ghettos that bear a striking resemblance to the American housing projects of the 50s. Segregated warehoused and marginalized. Then to add insult to injury the French pass laws that forbid the ha jab in public spaces, they also have laws against Jewish customs too. They have a state sponsored hegemony where there is an official list of names you can name your child among other things. The French need to abandon their legislated nationalism if they expect the millions of immigrants to become a part of French society.
Whether those regulations are wise or not, the French citizenry has a right to set the rules for their society. If the immigrants don't like it, they should leave. When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Nohemi Gonzales, a 23-year old design student at California State University, Long Beach, was killed Friday in the Islamic terrorist attacks in Paris while out with friends at a restaurant.
The French have a right to set rules to suppress minorities and ban religious customs, and they also have to reasonably expect some push back and a few truly evil people will take advantage of these anti Muslim laws to radicalize and incite terrorist. To see this in a compact history lesson I would suggest the film battle of Algiers to begin to understand why this insane tragedy happened in France in particular. Also understand that showing this film in France or owning a copy will land you in prison.
France is not like the US where we allow different religions and customs and enshrine those rights in our constitution. Let's hope the xenophobic nonsense we hear mostly from the republicans stops.
as noted above relgion and culture are a choice. if you choose a religion that incites hate for those not like you maybe you should find a better one or a version thereof. why should any nation tolerate a religion and culture that does not respect the rights of others? anyone notice none of the moderates on TV can qoute any verses, I would expect verse qouting by this time to suggest the religion and culture in fact is not being interpreted correctly.........Sweden is considering building a wall. the architectural solution for all political problems that people want to have nothing to do with. The Wall.
I don't agree that religion and especially culture are a choice unless you stumble out of the wilderness not having any human contact ever. But the systematic marginalization and direct actions to curb religious expressions are choices. Architecturally I think in America the development of ethnic enclaves or neighborhoods that support cultural expression think of China towns in major cities or Jewish enclaves in Brooklyn reflect our live and let live attitude, but when you pass a law like in Switzerland banning any further mosque construction or in France where women cannot wear their traditional head dress in public buildings it is no wonder a particular minority within a minority decide to take to violence.
Paris Attacks
60 dead, 100 hostage WTF
Couldn't see that one coming...or 9/11...or...how terribly shocking.
Yes, who could possibly have foreseen this...
I wonder what it will take for Europeans to realize that they are dealing with a hijrah of an even greater scale than the 8th century and start acting accordingly.
^b b b buuuut that would mean a rejection of the religion of peace and the primitives who spread it. Wouldn't want that. And certainly not borders. Borders are far too logical.
have a couple architectural solutions here: the ratio of pubs and adult establishments must be triple the crazies religious venue's square footage in any neighborhood. gender free bathrooms must be installed in these religious venues. a airport like security check out at these crazies religious venue. security camera on every block of declared crazies. ...
^ I like the sound of that. In addition, all toilet rooms should be on the wall most closely facing Mecca.
lol - wish there was an easy solution, would love to just build a giant f'ing wall around the middle east
^ A good start would be getting the fuck out of there.
^ what, Paris?
Please.. the ISIS is a terrorist organization the uses religion as a cover for it or probably to attract victimized Syrian or Iraqi poor people and getting them to carry out such terrorist operations in the pretext of religion, we all know that what behind this is way way bigger than Mohammed's mocked drawing or whatever..there're certainly people benefiting from all of this crap..
i am torn between what atrracts the disenfranchised who often resort to such actions (Columbine, Virginia Tech, and "terrorism",etc....) and a religion that allows and spawns groups like this. There obviosly is a set of ideals and values within this religion that attracts, breeds, and encourages such behavior.....Are guns the problem or the people that use them? Guns are at least real.....Architecturally designing shared religious venues, banning noise polution (prayer) and rewriting the symbolism could help. in my research into the history of the Synogoue, in predominantly Christian countries the Synogoues built would never be taller than the Church at exterior, so they would lower the assembly area at interior to actually be higher than the Church. you could redesign the mineret to fly the coutries flag, or some other sign of respect to the host. otherwise its just blatant inperial colonial behavior to plant your culture so brazingly in a host county.
Stop deluding yourself, America. This is not a political movement using Islam as a ruse to hide its true agenda. It is Islam itself when interpreted literally. "Slay the infidel" and all the rest is in the Koran. You can read it yourself. The Islamists will happily tell that to anyone who will listen. They aren't ashamed or secretive. It is Westerners who refuse to see what is in front of them, because they are terrified of the implications, namely that not all cultures and peoples can live in peace and harmony under a benevolent and tolerant democratic government. Sometimes there are irreconcilable differences that can't changed.
you can blame Islam as long as you wish, but again you're missing the big picture..
lose the religion, and you'll create a chaos in the host countries.. as you said .." not all cultures and peoples can live in peace and harmony under a benevolent and tolerant democratic government. Sometimes there are irreconcilable differences that can't changed "!
" It is Islam itself"- If it is Islam itself then we would be witnessing world war III by now, I don't know if it rally say "Slay the infidel" or if it say it within a historical context- better you quote the complete sentence.. anyway, i'm not religious and this not a place to discuss religion, but I assure you religion was the pretext not the motivation..
Olfa- I assume you're referring to me when you say " blatant inperial colonial behavior to plant your culture so brazingly in a host county ".. then only if you insist calling it my culture, how do explain that I personally had to leave my "host country" because neither me nor any citizen in my country could stand the chaotic situation created there when they opened the door for huge numbers of the population adversely affected every aspect of our lives! how do you explain the ISIS capturing that Jordanian pilot and burning him alive a year ago? is that also Islamic? cultural? i'm pretty sure they belong to the same religion and culture
Agreed-
when text like "thou shalt make no covenant with them nor shew mercy unto them. Neither shalt thou make marriages with them," is embraced as the basis for acceptable behaviors of terror and hate, we need to be mindful of the acts of terrors associated with it.
I noticed that the only thing that is never being discussed in this forum is Architecture!
zaina i was not. and this religion is the problem and any culture that acknowledges it legitimate existence on a moderate level as you so clearly point out. it is naive western liberalism that tolerates such hate as an acceptable culture. it is your obligation as a human to not tolerate such ignorance and if that means reforming or rewriting an entire religion and culture, to cut the head off the beast, then so be it. delete parts of the texts, delete books, disown the name and become free. find a new propjet or messiah. to thoroughly distance the unfortunate moderates who remain connected to such extremism, your only option is to disconnect.l completely. this is no different than moderate racism or sexism. fraternity of men that might turn a blind eye to charges of sexism or white members of country clubs that just kind of ignore KKK members carrying on. by claiming a moderate position in this religion and culture you continue to support the extremism. start with architecture. the redesign of religious venues, symoblism. write ordinances that ban 5 times a day prayer because its offensive to thise who di not practice or pulled an all nighter in studio.
zaina, i have been trying to squeeze architecture in and in the oast as you wondered about war and architecture i have suggested articles by people such as Paul Virillio.
design a gender neutral assembly of prayer with seating pointing in any direction. no prostrating on a rug required.........design a confession booth?.....a while ago someone i met for a second was recreating damaged ancient architecture in 3d for virtual experience after these assholes had blown them up - to paraphrase his intent - doing this to stick it to these barbarians, you can't kill civilazation. simple act if 3d restoration of world treasures damaged by angry hater mongers is a simple architectural solution. ......invent design competions that rewrite the religions nature.
Olaf- I though you would be a kind of person who would have Little more awareness than this.. I can't believe what you just said.. listen, I'm not the right person to discuss religious matters with.. i'm not a prophet, and it's not my obligation to change the people's beliefs, i don't belong to any extremist gang, a religion, or even a country in particular. the world is my place, and i'm nothing but an architect! still, what you just said insulted me and stroke deep in my heart which was your intent anyway because as you have deep respect for America despite of what we all see and know starting from racial discrimination of "white and black" to terrorism and the list goes on , I have respect for this religion ... the same amount of respect I have for "Denmark" the country where I was born when at the same time I'm very proud I'm Jordanian..
and btw thanks for suggesting articles by people such as Paul Virillio which I already found and read.. I hope you did not think I was stuck with my research at the points we discussed because I now have a lot of interesting information in the light, and I'll share my research paper with you guys at the end of this semester.
In Turkey a few months ago a family buried their daughter alive because she was getting too "western" in her thinking. Some bullshit about a family "honor" killing.
Volunteer- is similar to the crap in U.S when some families become disjointed and kids involve in drug dealing when the father die or run away and the mother spend her time drinking.. :p this is common among specific class of people.. it's about the individuals themselves and how they interact with their environment!
Sometime we go for whole weeks around here without killing our children. Then there are the assholes in Saudi Arabia that chopped the head off their own "princess" because she was messing around with someone else. They made him watch and then chopped off his head as well. To hell with these people.
Thank you Donna, that's one of the points I was trying to make with that excerpt from the Bible.
And to continue complicate things, weeks ago two teenage brothers were brutally beaten in Syracuse, one died.
By a congregation,
-including their parents,
-because they were not confessing their sins and asking for forgiveness
-inside the church.
Its not the text, it's how you use it.
What Donna said. Religious or ideological fundamentalism of any flavor is a cancer on society. How many people here in the US have been murdered in cold blood by terrorists acting in the name of Christianity? Oklahoma City, lynchings, bombings of black churches, murders of abortion providers and LBGT people all come to mind. George Bush spawned ISIS in 2003 by invading Iraq because he thinks God told him to do it. Today, the front-runner for a major political party, with massive backing by Christian extremists, wants to forcibly round up and deport 11 million people from US soil, which would be the largest ethnic cleansing operation in human history.
Atrocities have been committed all over the world in the name of Christianity, Zionism, Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, tribalism, you name it. Once ideology becomes more important than empathy, any number of sacred texts can be cherry-picked to justify the bloodshed that follows. If you seriously think Muslims have a monopoly on violent extremism, then you're part of the problem.
The Muslims seem to have the corner on the extremist market in Paris, don't they? Meanwhile we have a sack of shit in the White House who can't even use the words "Islamic extremists". Fuck him, too. So, yes, go ahead and list me as part of the problem.
hindu and Buddhist atrocities? there are bad things that happen in Buddhist countries, but that would be more a case of a military junta trying to hold power, or hindu countries facing serious problems with overcrowding, poverty, lack of resources, or something like that. i don't think you're going to see someone claim to kill another based on devout faith in either of those religions though, are you? self-immolation maybe. still though, to compare the polytheists to the monotheists doesn't make sense to me.
volunteer, in a country built on religious tolerance and freedom, the leader shouldn't be inciting internal violence against a specific religion. that would breech the separation between church and state, wouldn't it? there are many good muslims and other non-christian people in america. we would be better off getting rid of the nuts like you that want to foment prejudice rather than getting rid of decent people that want to practice their religion in peace.
Zaina I have lots of awareness and that is why I said what I said. by the way I haven't been specific, check my text. I never named any religion actually. the big 3 are all related anyway.
by prolonging these religions we only prolong the ignorance.
by naively defending a religion that is clearly the source of the most successful extremists on the planet currently you only prolong the atrocities. nothing wrong with condemning a religion, specifically portions of the religion that are blatantly wrong.
religion is a choice. so is culture.
again, if you're culture, wherever it may be allows a religion of this kind to subsist, you have to ask how do you change that?
as noted we are architects so what are the solutions as architects?
here is the math formula in case no one can figure it out
1. disenfranchised + religion = extremism
2. culture + religion = identity
3. disenfranchised /= identity of majority locally
Is #2 actually true?
architecture can solve none of these alone. architecture is not political without politics.
Religion has little to do with why some people join these extremist groups. Religion is used as a tool of recruitment and control, but I would bet that the real reasons are very similar to why people join gangs...
religion is a choice
Capitalism can be described as a fundamentalist religion.
ISIS is a terrorist organization the uses religion as a cover
The US is a terrorist organization the uses religion(s) as a cover.
Democracy is a code word for capitalism delivered at the point of a gun. Economic interests are running the show via strategic control of energy resources (both for profit and for control of who gets to use them) and a for-profit military (the corporate-industrial-military complex). These are simply the two most blatantly transparent and obvious aspects of US foreign policy.
If they wanted to put a stop to this shit they would stop doing the things that drive it. We've been mucking around in the Middle East - for our own benefit - since WWII. With the advent of drone technology we've been indiscriminately raining death and destruction on civilians and should not be surprised that this exacerbates rather then resolves ongoing wars. But the goal is not to put out the fire - it is to fan the flames in order to justify further military spending, invasions, destabilization of sovereign countries, revocation of constitutional rights, etc.
Drone strikes killing more civilians than U.S. admits, human rights groups say
Civilian casualties and strategic failures in America’s longest war
The Toll Of 5 Years Of Drone Strikes: 2,400 Dead
What will happen when the other terrorists start delivering bombs with drones?
when holy wars mix with financial wars....anyway just heard John Kerry say it - prophecy fullfilled, end of the world is near
or wait, is the holy war being financed?
architects go do something about this.
d[- -]b - what balls you have to link an image found via duck duck go.
jla-x the gang scenario was my point, except when they find Jesus gang members become decent human being.
Why aren't the the moderates doing anything about this? maybe they like it?
I give the human race 20 years before we set off a full blown ww3...a minority of Fucking deranged and greedy assholes on all sides ruining this beautiful world for the rest....
I think the solution is to continue the practice of engineering civil wars and knocking out secular governments that challenge our hegemony in the region. Of course maintaining open alliances with nations that house the ideological framework for fanaticism is a necessary evil in keeping certain resources connected to our currency while also acting as a bulwark against the real bad guys (the Ruskies!). We will of course flirt with challenging the fanatics on the ground, but take care not to hurt them too much so that certain governments do not become emboldened. Our strategies will result in blow-back, but hey, that's what it takes to run an empire in the modern era.
Oh wow, see what a saturday can do. The problem is not Islam, but the radicals who interpret it for their own benefits.
I wish the Parisian government had doubled down on the "disenfranchised minorities" much like happened in the US after 9/11. Sure, a lot of my friends with muslim origins had to go to "report" to the FBI every other week, but so far we havent had an attack. The french were just too soft on these fuckers.
This cartoonist sums it up properly
http://qz.com/550349/one-french-artists-defiant-life-affirming-response-to-the-paris-attacks/
The Islamist douchebags are just mad they cannot enjoy their life, music, kisses and champagne.
Olaf- it seems that it never happened that you followed the news.. if you follow the news you'll see that Muslim civilians is Syria and Iraq are targeted by ISIS.. you'll also find that governments like the Jordanian and Turkish government are fighting against this organization, and if it happen and you visit those countries you'd experience the tough security measures there out of fearing a coming terrorist attack... so stop telling it's religious, it is only religious for the terrorists who executed the operation! and there are many ways to induce those uneducated mentally disordered terrorists to carry out such operations other than religion .. the solution starts with a decision from your government to stop funding this kind of organizations! you want to fight terrorism with architecture? LOL ok give them decent homes after they lost everything in the civil war and maybe this'll preserve their mental health..!!
I'm for rounding up two groups; people that supported the war in Iraq, and everyone that thinks rounding up, and injecting Muslims with tracking chips is a good idea.
Zaina, I think you're oversimplifying what's happening in the region. It's interesting that you use Turkey and Jordan as your examples since those two countries (Turkey especially) played an implicit role in bringing about the collapse of Syrian state cohesion through their blind and enthusiastic support for any group that would help them bring down Assad. Don't forget that ISIS was lumped in to the greater "Syrian opposition" by most governments and media until they formally declared themselves a caliphate in 2014 and launched their offensives in Iraq & Syria. The Syrian "opposition" received enormous amounts of financial aid (of course approved by the USA) from Gulf States, where the majority of the capital went to the groups with demonstrated results on the ground (aka the fanatics actually capturing territory against Assad). Even top officials in the United States admitted in declassified documents that as early as 2012, the most effective groups on the ground challenging Assad were the Muslim fundamentalist groups like Al Nusra Front or ISIS, and not the so-called phantom 'moderates.' Most of the money and weapons went to those groups early in the conflict. No one expected however for the Frankenstein monster to attack not just Assad, but any group that dares challenge its authority (this includes France, US, Russia, Iran, Shias, Kurds, etc.)
Additionally, the assertion that this group is not religious does a disservice to moderate Muslims everywhere. They are very religious, very organized, and they know exactly what they are doing. No amount of social media campaigning can deny the similarities between the way they operate, and the overall structure of the religion today lead by countries like Saudi Arabia and upcoming despots like Erdogan. The only difference is that they are more direct in how they do things and put their money where their mouth is.
Anyway, what happened in Paris is horrible of course, but the attempts by multiple people (from all sides) to oversimplify these developments based on their own world view is naive at best.
This article from The Atlantic does a pretty good job in analyzing the ISIS phenomenon:
Long read, but well worth it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
Zaina I see you got my humor now, and you've come around to rational understanding of what architecture can and can't do. Architecture without politics is not political.
here is a blog though you may want to check out with this new perspective on reality http://thefunambulist.net/
one of the countries you mentioned had a super-hero man bring his country into the 20th century, but recently due to this ideological virus, direct strories from sources who have been within the country - the devolution has begun and reversed much of this super-hero's work.
further to the east is a nation who once worshipped the sun and enjoyed centuries of intellectual prosperity adopted this ideology as a government - theocracy, also known as idiocracy. without civil war or invasion, they manage to loose between 100k-200k of their brightest to the west. why? is the virus infiltrated with satanic verses?
moderates are people who tolerate the extremism within their own ideology. thank god most religious people are not fundamentalist.
Donald Trump has proposed the only architectural solution to all of this - a Wall. Leopold Lambert talks about walls a lot.
d[-_-]b said qoute & said
religion is a choice -Capitalism can be described as a fundamentalist religion.
plenty off the grid choices that are neither Capitalist nor Violent
France and Europe have a difficult problem integrating immigrants and in the case of France non Catholics into society. Architecturally they house Muslims and other immigrants from the former French empire in suburban ghettos that bear a striking resemblance to the American housing projects of the 50s. Segregated warehoused and marginalized. Then to add insult to injury the French pass laws that forbid the ha jab in public spaces, they also have laws against Jewish customs too. They have a state sponsored hegemony where there is an official list of names you can name your child among other things. The French need to abandon their legislated nationalism if they expect the millions of immigrants to become a part of French society.
Whether those regulations are wise or not, the French citizenry has a right to set the rules for their society. If the immigrants don't like it, they should leave. When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Nohemi Gonzales, a 23-year old design student at California State University, Long Beach, was killed Friday in the Islamic terrorist attacks in Paris while out with friends at a restaurant.
The French have a right to set rules to suppress minorities and ban religious customs, and they also have to reasonably expect some push back and a few truly evil people will take advantage of these anti Muslim laws to radicalize and incite terrorist. To see this in a compact history lesson I would suggest the film battle of Algiers to begin to understand why this insane tragedy happened in France in particular. Also understand that showing this film in France or owning a copy will land you in prison.
France is not like the US where we allow different religions and customs and enshrine those rights in our constitution. Let's hope the xenophobic nonsense we hear mostly from the republicans stops.
as noted above relgion and culture are a choice. if you choose a religion that incites hate for those not like you maybe you should find a better one or a version thereof. why should any nation tolerate a religion and culture that does not respect the rights of others? anyone notice none of the moderates on TV can qoute any verses, I would expect verse qouting by this time to suggest the religion and culture in fact is not being interpreted correctly.........Sweden is considering building a wall. the architectural solution for all political problems that people want to have nothing to do with. The Wall.
I don't agree that religion and especially culture are a choice unless you stumble out of the wilderness not having any human contact ever. But the systematic marginalization and direct actions to curb religious expressions are choices. Architecturally I think in America the development of ethnic enclaves or neighborhoods that support cultural expression think of China towns in major cities or Jewish enclaves in Brooklyn reflect our live and let live attitude, but when you pass a law like in Switzerland banning any further mosque construction or in France where women cannot wear their traditional head dress in public buildings it is no wonder a particular minority within a minority decide to take to violence.
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