Well this is my first time posting, and I'm in quite the conundrum, currently for the past two and a half years have been employed by a firm that specializes in k-12. I've worked on two other projects that have been private hospitality projects however it was more to obtain a permit type of work. Its quite mundane at times and i really would love to get more into designing. Now, i've recieved a job offer from a firm that is about 20 minutes further from where i am currently, my current job is 5 minutes from my house - this allows me to have a wonderful work/live balance. come and go as i please, work late but manage to come home and take a break and spend quality time with my dog ( i am a huge dog person). I absolutely condone having that balance in life. Now, the job offer i recieved is more money, more interesting projects, but longer hours. however im concerned with my area of growth potential if i take the new job. as where i am currently im on track to project manager within the year and also completing my IDP hours within a year and a half. i've really worked very hard to get to where i am and do not want to lose that. the new position i've recieved, is as an 'architectural intern' however certainly not architectural intern pay. its currently a few thousand more than what im currently getting, the 401k is 3% unmatched. im currently getting 4% matched. healthcare is obviously always a huge potential pay cut - which is unknown with the new firm. and within three months if i prove myself the pay will be a substaintial increase at the new firm. ive done alot of research on linkedin and saw that many people at the new position have left the job all within maybe a year of working there, and im not sure as to why... now should i stay at my current position and allow myself to grow into project management quickly -i also manage all the new hires where i am currently. or do i pack up and go to the firm with better projects and more money?
Ashley, in therapy the object is to talk and the therapist reflects back to you what you're saying/thinking and when you hear that you hear the answer to your own question. Read back your post to yourself, you answered your own question - you need to stay.
Thanks for the advice so far. I'm still very up in the air for what to do. I've contacted a few people and they've had nothing but great things to say. The only negative was about scale of projects much smaller. But high end residential and commercial. I'm currently used to multi million dollar projects upwards of 12+ mil. I believe at the new place they're max 2 mil. Not a huge issue I don't believe because the higher cost is usually more stressful
carrera. My friend did tell me that the lights at the new potential job are on very late some nights. Why is this a red flag? I sometimes work late but not every night
It's a sign that they are not managing things well.... when a kid I worked at a place that ran 2 shifts (I worked 2nd shift) because they were loaded with work and locked into a lease and couldn't move.... that may be the case here, but I doubt it.... better find out, then talk to your dog.
Do either of the offices allow employees to take their dogs to work? The last office I worked at before opening my own office allowed dogs and it completely solved the whole worry about leaving the dog alone on late nights since he was with me when I did have to stay late. Currently my dog spends a fair amount of his day on my lap or going to job sites with me.
is there a big difference between a 12 mill project and a 2 mill? Not trying to be a dick but i doubt the complexity is that much different.
Are you eligible to take the ARE's before finishing IDP? If so it sounds like your current position and work life balance is prefect for taking the exams.
also, health insurance can be a huge deal and can vary widely, no reason not to know what a potential firm provides. I accepted a job offer last week in which my health insurance costs will more than double, from $120 a month to $300, if i didn't know that going in I'd be pretty mad at myself on the first day
Love dogs... but. Had a partner decide it was okay to bring in his cat... thought my head was going to explode... didn't say anything... until it ended up on my desk. After I retired I did little things on my own and took my dog with me everywhere until she took a crap in a clients new house.
I've decided to wait until next year to start my exams due to my current financial standing . I'm just very unsure if I want to walk into another k-12 school again, they make me miserable. If my current job did more types of projects I don't think I ever would have taken an interview with the other company
For what it is worth, I have worked on almost every building type and also for a starchitect.. I found that schools were the most rewarding. It was a different kind of satisfaction.
The idea was to do as clean a set of documents as possible so that the project came in as far under budget as possible while still doing something of value so that the school district could take that money and purchase more books for the library, upgrade computers, hire a special programs teacher etc.
Schools are not for everybody, if they make you that miserable, maybe you should move on. Just remember the greenest grass is always over the septic tank.
keep in mind that if you wait another year the format of the exams will be changing, meaning study guides will not be as good and pass rates in general will decline drastically.
If you can at least take CDS, PPP, and SPD under 4.0 you'll only need to take 2 tests under ARE v5.0
travel time is important to consider as well... if you assume a mile costs you $0.50 in gas, ins, and maintenance that 20 minute drive costs you an extra $1,000 per year combined with an extra $1000 in insurance (using my case) and you might be breaking even. You can defer maint. for awhile but eventually it'll catch up
If you like everything about your current situation, minus the projects, I would talk to your supervisor (owner?) About diversifying your project types when possible.. An even better approach would be to go and find the project you want top work on and bring it into the firm.
Well my decision has been made, VERY DIFFICULT - im still running it over in my head to whether it was the right one or not. However i've decided to stay where i am and this has landed me a promotion and a pay increase as of this morning which is fantastic, the work will still be the same. but i think at the end of the day my quality of life is most important to me, to be able to take days off as i please and spend some quality time with my dog (im a crazy dog lady). I dont know if this was the right decision but i had a discussion with my manager this morning and my main priority is to be on the fast track to licensure and i absolutely know for a fact that where i am now is not going to present any speed bumps in that process. in which case i hope to start my own business. Also working here allows me the opportunity to mentor and teach all the new hires which is extremely important to me. Thank you all for the input its been extremely helpful!
Now im curious to whether i made a mistake or not. Has anyone ever been in a similar situation? did i sell out?! did i screw my future opportunities with sticking with a company that works primarily in one particular field (k-12) vs going with a company that works on multiple types of projects (residential & hospitality)
Can't second guess yourself now. Your specialty is K-12 at this point, its not that you can't do other types of work in the future but you would have to learn a different type of project type and would likely be paid less as you wouldn't be as productive for a few years. I do K-12 its a rewarding project type (in my opinion) maybe not as flashy as some of the other types but I can tell you from my short stint into hospitality and to an extent restaurants they are not nearly as engaging as they look. Most hotels and restaurants are designed off a prototype if they are for a major brand and its just site adaptation and addressing local code and regulations.....mind and soul crushing in my opinion, its like ground hog day you do one here then one in Florida then one in Arizona. My experience with residential was one of constant deadlines, you finish one job and another is critical, lots of late nights and redesigns as the owners change their minds.
Like it was said above grass only seems greener on the other side all project types have their down side. K-12 has a pretty decent mix of spaces that keep things interesting, you could be doing strip malls and walmarts.
Ashley, X is right and it's too soon to be star gazing, too many fundamentals left to learn, this is a good place to finish laying the foundation….in a new place you’d spend a year trying to find a saddle that fits…..if you’re bored start laying the foundation for that practice you want to start, that doesn’t happen overnight……take the dog for a long walk, you’ll be fine.
So i recieved a phone call yesterday, the other firm still wants me despite my declination. My hands are sweaty my mind is racing - i cant really find solace right now in anything. all my concerns about idp and ability to grow with the company were addressed. all positive - they want me to start with the company and learn the basics and within 6 months they want me to move up. they said they want me on the fast track at their company to become a project designer ASAP. all the projects they work on are my favorite buildings/activities locally. not sure if any of you are familiar with NYRA horse racing but i've always been a huge fan and they have the commisions for all the future jobs. WHAT do i do - i want it, i just dont want to sacrifice work/life balance - is this an appropriate question to ask the owner of the firm?
Absolutely -- if this is a major concern for you, you must bring it up for discussion with the new firm. Be completely honest with them about your concerns and listen carefully to how they respond -- being perhaps more attentive to their tone and what they might not be saying than to the actual words.
They are likely to approach this line of inquiry with a "no problem" attitude, but you'll need to carry the discussion deeper -- explore in detail their expectations with respect to work hours, etc. If you decide to go forward, do your best to obtain in writing their assurances about your concerns. That will flush out their true expectations on the matter.
everyone is being groomed for an expanded role during the interview process
can't answer the typography question - I've always had to switch firms for project variety
I'd still wait an extra year until you are licensed - then you will be far more attractive to firms and able to demand a higher salary. the bump for newly hired "architect" is sure to be larger than the bump for "current employee who just got licensed:
There are different types of rewards. Basically it is the same shit on a different day. If I am understanding you correctly, you are asking if there is something in the work world that is congruent to the thrill that you got designing in school?
No.
That is why you need to get your license and chart your own course.
i dont have a thrill by any means in designing schools, because its mostly roof replacements. But im asking whether being a part of hospitality, commercial projects will be more exciting?
not sure what you mean by hospitality / commercial...
I currently work on giant mixed use retail ($300 mill shopping malls with condos and parking) and am leaving for a firm that does much less glamorous municipal work.
So far as i can tell the main difference is the wall sections/ systems are much more complicated for larger high end projects than what you are prob used to. That said in the sub-$2 mill. range I doubt there is a big difference, they just cant afford to spend on complicated systems unless the project is very small.
In the work world the term designer is defined very loosely to try and convince you that is what you are doing.
It is different, but basically the same no matter what your role, type or complexity of project. No matter what your job tile says, unless you are the design principle, you are a cad monkey.
I would echo the other statements and say that you need a stable and reasonable workload to get your license. After that, move on but not before.
You might not know this, but architecture moves in cycles. The opportunity that you have now to study will not always be there. Take advantage of it while you can. There will be another downturn.
This new company is growing rapidly. A lot of new and exciting projects. The opportunity to become principal is there. Would I rather be a design principal of a company that has diversity in projects or not
Ashley, nothings for nothing, all those opportunities have time/hours attached to them. If you’re ready to move into the passing lane and push down on the gas…and expend the gas…then maybe this is it. But I keep hearing about quality of life and that comes from balance and you need time to for each to balance.
Wonder about working the overtime from home with Fido.
Shu, did I read that the new place talked "principle"? At 2.5 years? I think I see some major smoke coming off that fire. Reminds me of an old Realtor dictum "Buyers are liars ".
Similar situation to OP. I am in the nice, but odd situation of an offer from a former employer and a different firm. Weighing several different factors, former employer is offering 5k more and has decent benefits but I left there due to former boss. They have offered me to work under someone else but there's always the possibility of having to go back and work for the former boss as work ebbs and flows. Take the new refreshing job and start anew or return to former employer with better salary/benefits but face potentially same situation why I left......? Anyone ever in this boat?
Mar 19, 15 6:42 pm ·
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Job Offer Dilemma
Well this is my first time posting, and I'm in quite the conundrum, currently for the past two and a half years have been employed by a firm that specializes in k-12. I've worked on two other projects that have been private hospitality projects however it was more to obtain a permit type of work. Its quite mundane at times and i really would love to get more into designing. Now, i've recieved a job offer from a firm that is about 20 minutes further from where i am currently, my current job is 5 minutes from my house - this allows me to have a wonderful work/live balance. come and go as i please, work late but manage to come home and take a break and spend quality time with my dog ( i am a huge dog person). I absolutely condone having that balance in life. Now, the job offer i recieved is more money, more interesting projects, but longer hours. however im concerned with my area of growth potential if i take the new job. as where i am currently im on track to project manager within the year and also completing my IDP hours within a year and a half. i've really worked very hard to get to where i am and do not want to lose that. the new position i've recieved, is as an 'architectural intern' however certainly not architectural intern pay. its currently a few thousand more than what im currently getting, the 401k is 3% unmatched. im currently getting 4% matched. healthcare is obviously always a huge potential pay cut - which is unknown with the new firm. and within three months if i prove myself the pay will be a substaintial increase at the new firm. ive done alot of research on linkedin and saw that many people at the new position have left the job all within maybe a year of working there, and im not sure as to why... now should i stay at my current position and allow myself to grow into project management quickly -i also manage all the new hires where i am currently. or do i pack up and go to the firm with better projects and more money?
thanks!
ashley
Ashley, in therapy the object is to talk and the therapist reflects back to you what you're saying/thinking and when you hear that you hear the answer to your own question. Read back your post to yourself, you answered your own question - you need to stay.
Also dive by late at night, if the lights are on - red flag #2.
Thanks for the advice so far. I'm still very up in the air for what to do. I've contacted a few people and they've had nothing but great things to say. The only negative was about scale of projects much smaller. But high end residential and commercial. I'm currently used to multi million dollar projects upwards of 12+ mil. I believe at the new place they're max 2 mil. Not a huge issue I don't believe because the higher cost is usually more stressful
carrera. My friend did tell me that the lights at the new potential job are on very late some nights. Why is this a red flag? I sometimes work late but not every night
thanks
ashley
Ashley, are your ready for "every night?"
It's a sign that they are not managing things well.... when a kid I worked at a place that ran 2 shifts (I worked 2nd shift) because they were loaded with work and locked into a lease and couldn't move.... that may be the case here, but I doubt it.... better find out, then talk to your dog.
Do either of the offices allow employees to take their dogs to work? The last office I worked at before opening my own office allowed dogs and it completely solved the whole worry about leaving the dog alone on late nights since he was with me when I did have to stay late. Currently my dog spends a fair amount of his day on my lap or going to job sites with me.
For being a new employee I would never bring my dog in or ask. My current job I can but I don't because I live so close to the office
is there a big difference between a 12 mill project and a 2 mill? Not trying to be a dick but i doubt the complexity is that much different.
Are you eligible to take the ARE's before finishing IDP? If so it sounds like your current position and work life balance is prefect for taking the exams.
also, health insurance can be a huge deal and can vary widely, no reason not to know what a potential firm provides. I accepted a job offer last week in which my health insurance costs will more than double, from $120 a month to $300, if i didn't know that going in I'd be pretty mad at myself on the first day
Love dogs... but. Had a partner decide it was okay to bring in his cat... thought my head was going to explode... didn't say anything... until it ended up on my desk. After I retired I did little things on my own and took my dog with me everywhere until she took a crap in a clients new house.
I've decided to wait until next year to start my exams due to my current financial standing . I'm just very unsure if I want to walk into another k-12 school again, they make me miserable. If my current job did more types of projects I don't think I ever would have taken an interview with the other company
For what it is worth, I have worked on almost every building type and also for a starchitect.. I found that schools were the most rewarding. It was a different kind of satisfaction.
The idea was to do as clean a set of documents as possible so that the project came in as far under budget as possible while still doing something of value so that the school district could take that money and purchase more books for the library, upgrade computers, hire a special programs teacher etc.
Schools are not for everybody, if they make you that miserable, maybe you should move on. Just remember the greenest grass is always over the septic tank.
keep in mind that if you wait another year the format of the exams will be changing, meaning study guides will not be as good and pass rates in general will decline drastically.
If you can at least take CDS, PPP, and SPD under 4.0 you'll only need to take 2 tests under ARE v5.0
travel time is important to consider as well... if you assume a mile costs you $0.50 in gas, ins, and maintenance that 20 minute drive costs you an extra $1,000 per year combined with an extra $1000 in insurance (using my case) and you might be breaking even. You can defer maint. for awhile but eventually it'll catch up
If you like everything about your current situation, minus the projects, I would talk to your supervisor (owner?) About diversifying your project types when possible.. An even better approach would be to go and find the project you want top work on and bring it into the firm.
Well my decision has been made, VERY DIFFICULT - im still running it over in my head to whether it was the right one or not. However i've decided to stay where i am and this has landed me a promotion and a pay increase as of this morning which is fantastic, the work will still be the same. but i think at the end of the day my quality of life is most important to me, to be able to take days off as i please and spend some quality time with my dog (im a crazy dog lady). I dont know if this was the right decision but i had a discussion with my manager this morning and my main priority is to be on the fast track to licensure and i absolutely know for a fact that where i am now is not going to present any speed bumps in that process. in which case i hope to start my own business. Also working here allows me the opportunity to mentor and teach all the new hires which is extremely important to me. Thank you all for the input its been extremely helpful!
Now im curious to whether i made a mistake or not. Has anyone ever been in a similar situation? did i sell out?! did i screw my future opportunities with sticking with a company that works primarily in one particular field (k-12) vs going with a company that works on multiple types of projects (residential & hospitality)
Can't second guess yourself now. Your specialty is K-12 at this point, its not that you can't do other types of work in the future but you would have to learn a different type of project type and would likely be paid less as you wouldn't be as productive for a few years. I do K-12 its a rewarding project type (in my opinion) maybe not as flashy as some of the other types but I can tell you from my short stint into hospitality and to an extent restaurants they are not nearly as engaging as they look. Most hotels and restaurants are designed off a prototype if they are for a major brand and its just site adaptation and addressing local code and regulations.....mind and soul crushing in my opinion, its like ground hog day you do one here then one in Florida then one in Arizona. My experience with residential was one of constant deadlines, you finish one job and another is critical, lots of late nights and redesigns as the owners change their minds.
Like it was said above grass only seems greener on the other side all project types have their down side. K-12 has a pretty decent mix of spaces that keep things interesting, you could be doing strip malls and walmarts.
Ashley, X is right and it's too soon to be star gazing, too many fundamentals left to learn, this is a good place to finish laying the foundation….in a new place you’d spend a year trying to find a saddle that fits…..if you’re bored start laying the foundation for that practice you want to start, that doesn’t happen overnight……take the dog for a long walk, you’ll be fine.
So i recieved a phone call yesterday, the other firm still wants me despite my declination. My hands are sweaty my mind is racing - i cant really find solace right now in anything. all my concerns about idp and ability to grow with the company were addressed. all positive - they want me to start with the company and learn the basics and within 6 months they want me to move up. they said they want me on the fast track at their company to become a project designer ASAP. all the projects they work on are my favorite buildings/activities locally. not sure if any of you are familiar with NYRA horse racing but i've always been a huge fan and they have the commisions for all the future jobs. WHAT do i do - i want it, i just dont want to sacrifice work/life balance - is this an appropriate question to ask the owner of the firm?
Absolutely -- if this is a major concern for you, you must bring it up for discussion with the new firm. Be completely honest with them about your concerns and listen carefully to how they respond -- being perhaps more attentive to their tone and what they might not be saying than to the actual words.
They are likely to approach this line of inquiry with a "no problem" attitude, but you'll need to carry the discussion deeper -- explore in detail their expectations with respect to work hours, etc. If you decide to go forward, do your best to obtain in writing their assurances about your concerns. That will flush out their true expectations on the matter.
Good luck.
I have been promised the moon on more than one occasion, and the last time I looked, I still do not have it.
Can you put in 3 hours a night after you have worked 12-14 hours already to study for the ARE?
are expansive typography's of projects really more worth it, are they more rewarding to work on?
hold your horses.....
everyone is being groomed for an expanded role during the interview process
can't answer the typography question - I've always had to switch firms for project variety
I'd still wait an extra year until you are licensed - then you will be far more attractive to firms and able to demand a higher salary. the bump for newly hired "architect" is sure to be larger than the bump for "current employee who just got licensed:
There are different types of rewards. Basically it is the same shit on a different day. If I am understanding you correctly, you are asking if there is something in the work world that is congruent to the thrill that you got designing in school?
No.
That is why you need to get your license and chart your own course.
i dont have a thrill by any means in designing schools, because its mostly roof replacements. But im asking whether being a part of hospitality, commercial projects will be more exciting?
not sure what you mean by hospitality / commercial...
I currently work on giant mixed use retail ($300 mill shopping malls with condos and parking) and am leaving for a firm that does much less glamorous municipal work.
So far as i can tell the main difference is the wall sections/ systems are much more complicated for larger high end projects than what you are prob used to. That said in the sub-$2 mill. range I doubt there is a big difference, they just cant afford to spend on complicated systems unless the project is very small.
In school, not schools.
In the work world the term designer is defined very loosely to try and convince you that is what you are doing.
It is different, but basically the same no matter what your role, type or complexity of project. No matter what your job tile says, unless you are the design principle, you are a cad monkey.
I would echo the other statements and say that you need a stable and reasonable workload to get your license. After that, move on but not before.
You might not know this, but architecture moves in cycles. The opportunity that you have now to study will not always be there. Take advantage of it while you can. There will be another downturn.
This new company is growing rapidly. A lot of new and exciting projects. The opportunity to become principal is there. Would I rather be a design principal of a company that has diversity in projects or not
This is your decision.
ashleyelizabeth: I thought the main unresolved issue was "work/life balance".
I think you already know the answers to the other questions.
Ashley, nothings for nothing, all those opportunities have time/hours attached to them. If you’re ready to move into the passing lane and push down on the gas…and expend the gas…then maybe this is it. But I keep hearing about quality of life and that comes from balance and you need time to for each to balance.
Wonder about working the overtime from home with Fido.
Ha, no one has ever associated work life balance with being a principal! Besides, you have been working 2.5 years, you got at least 4 job changes left
Shu, did I read that the new place talked "principle"? At 2.5 years? I think I see some major smoke coming off that fire. Reminds me of an old Realtor dictum "Buyers are liars ".
Yup, think the job market is really tightening
Similar situation to OP. I am in the nice, but odd situation of an offer from a former employer and a different firm. Weighing several different factors, former employer is offering 5k more and has decent benefits but I left there due to former boss. They have offered me to work under someone else but there's always the possibility of having to go back and work for the former boss as work ebbs and flows. Take the new refreshing job and start anew or return to former employer with better salary/benefits but face potentially same situation why I left......? Anyone ever in this boat?
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