Just wondering... is it possible to maintain the interior and exterior concrete finish by placing the insulation on the inside of a concrete wall assembly?
random factoid:in England a common wall type consists of two courses of CMU and some insulation in between. No waterproofing to speak of. The British need no stinkin' waterproofing. After all, they invented misery.
The issue I am having is the wall-to-floor connection.
Most of the manufactures websites claim you can use the sandwich panels almost exactly like standard slabs.
But I've found little documentation on how exactly they are connected to the floors since the structural load-bearing side (100mm concrete) is suppose to be on the interior.
To complicate matters further: I've added a cantilevered ledge and I've put it up on a pier-- no insulating the foundation, no 'wall curtains.'
No idea what's going on there. Can you link to one of these manufacturers? I have a feeling you are talking about precast structural concrete. Standard in parking garages and (get this) ceilings above jail cells. (There are other uses of course).
The 'cantilever' detail is no different than a typical balcony detail. All balconies are ultimately thermal bridges. Unless you completely wrap them. Which is rarely financially feasible.
OP-DECK or INSUL-DECK (why does everything deck related have to be in ALL CAPS) was a consideration for the floors. I don't like how it's not a concrete finish on both sides though.
There's another product called K-PANEL... but the website looked a little cheesey.
Floors or walls, the system is the same. A metal mesh frame and rebar cage with perpendicular ties sandwiched around a foam layer (that may or may not be wrapped in sheet metal or reinforced with C-beams or T-beams.)
For "jutting applications," one wouldn't have to result to using insulated brackets for balconies or wrapping them... if I could figure out a way to make the insulation space in the doublewall system continuous from floor to wall.
You stop the thermal bridge by interrupting it with a non-conductive material - for example insulation. Why don you come up with a solution that relates to the needs of your climate?
there was a long discussion on this topic a couple years ago...i think holz box had quite of info on the systems used in europe.
try searching the archives.
but yeah, double wall.
I'm not so sure if sandwich panels are good to use as floor slabs, especially as continuous elements in combination with cantilevers - why not cast the floors and try to break the thermal bridge? A common solution for this here in NL would be to use something like Isokorb:
Basically it's an insulating element to which the rebars are connected, but which breaks the thermal bridge. I think you can get a cantilever of maximum 2,2 m this way. Also, it's easier to include drainage and anti-slip texture in your cantilevering part, compared with sandwich panels.
Check out Quad-Lock. I have used their system and it is
by far the best ICF system out there. The make products for
new construction and retro-fit systems. The retro-fit system
would allow you to apply insulation to an already existing concrete
wall, if that were the case.
Haha. Hey now, layout-wise trailers... err, manufactured homes, are pretty spectacular. It's a shame they're made out of burning, poison and wind-attracting metals.
Also, my only rebar reference material is in Español. So, I am 99% sure that 98% of this is all wrong.
Outside layer is often thinner concrete (4"+) while inside layer is structural and thicker (6-8".) Or vice versa. Try to find some wall sections through an Olgiati project to see how walls connect to floors.
Apr 3, 11 8:40 am ·
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Is it possible to insulate a concrete wall on the interior?
Just wondering... is it possible to maintain the interior and exterior concrete finish by placing the insulation on the inside of a concrete wall assembly?
Or would this require a double-wall?
Okay, sandwich panels it is.
Question, how do you stop thermal bridges when connecting sandwich panels to floors?
Or is the few inches of overlapping concrete acceptable?
Did someone say sammich?
I think you need to give us a quick sketch here.
random factoid:in England a common wall type consists of two courses of CMU and some insulation in between. No waterproofing to speak of. The British need no stinkin' waterproofing. After all, they invented misery.
The issue I am having is the wall-to-floor connection.
Most of the manufactures websites claim you can use the sandwich panels almost exactly like standard slabs.
But I've found little documentation on how exactly they are connected to the floors since the structural load-bearing side (100mm concrete) is suppose to be on the interior.
To complicate matters further: I've added a cantilevered ledge and I've put it up on a pier-- no insulating the foundation, no 'wall curtains.'
No idea what's going on there. Can you link to one of these manufacturers? I have a feeling you are talking about precast structural concrete. Standard in parking garages and (get this) ceilings above jail cells. (There are other uses of course).
The 'cantilever' detail is no different than a typical balcony detail. All balconies are ultimately thermal bridges. Unless you completely wrap them. Which is rarely financially feasible.
I've been looking at http://www.hkties.com/ since they have the most flexibility.
OP-DECK or INSUL-DECK (why does everything deck related have to be in ALL CAPS) was a consideration for the floors. I don't like how it's not a concrete finish on both sides though.
There's another product called K-PANEL... but the website looked a little cheesey.
Floors or walls, the system is the same. A metal mesh frame and rebar cage with perpendicular ties sandwiched around a foam layer (that may or may not be wrapped in sheet metal or reinforced with C-beams or T-beams.)
For "jutting applications," one wouldn't have to result to using insulated brackets for balconies or wrapping them... if I could figure out a way to make the insulation space in the doublewall system continuous from floor to wall.
You stop the thermal bridge by interrupting it with a non-conductive material - for example insulation. Why don you come up with a solution that relates to the needs of your climate?
Ask Wiel Arets, he used to do some good old prefab concrete back in the days... el croquis 85
there was a long discussion on this topic a couple years ago...i think holz box had quite of info on the systems used in europe.
try searching the archives.
but yeah, double wall.
I'm not so sure if sandwich panels are good to use as floor slabs, especially as continuous elements in combination with cantilevers - why not cast the floors and try to break the thermal bridge? A common solution for this here in NL would be to use something like Isokorb:
Schöck Isokorb
Basically it's an insulating element to which the rebars are connected, but which breaks the thermal bridge. I think you can get a cantilever of maximum 2,2 m this way. Also, it's easier to include drainage and anti-slip texture in your cantilevering part, compared with sandwich panels.
ICF_ Insulated Concrete Form
Check out Quad-Lock. I have used their system and it is
by far the best ICF system out there. The make products for
new construction and retro-fit systems. The retro-fit system
would allow you to apply insulation to an already existing concrete
wall, if that were the case.
http://www.quadlock.com/
But ICF is on the exterior in wall applications and exposed on the underside of the floor.
I want monolithic, fancy concrete.
You are looking for Italian granite while flipping through an EIFS brochure.
a-f, I'm digging the Schlock Isokorb. I will try to suggest that one next time the condition arises.
hahaha. I figured a-f's suggestion was about as close as I was going to get.
http://construction-manager.co.uk/features/sculpture-garden/
This project apparently uses sandwich concrete throughout the project. My main concern though is still about the wall-to-floor connections.
You would think the people selling these systems would uhh... probably mention how this part works.
larger
I think I accomplished it.
You just drew a section of this:
Haha. Hey now, layout-wise trailers... err, manufactured homes, are pretty spectacular. It's a shame they're made out of burning, poison and wind-attracting metals.
Also, my only rebar reference material is in Español. So, I am 99% sure that 98% of this is all wrong.
Yes, it's possible to do this. It's sometimes called a double-wythe wall, and the Swiss are masters of it.
Look at some Valerio Olgiati projects if you want examples.
Olgiati
Outside layer is often thinner concrete (4"+) while inside layer is structural and thicker (6-8".) Or vice versa. Try to find some wall sections through an Olgiati project to see how walls connect to floors.
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