since no one seemed able to find the other thread that was sort of about this topic i'm going to start my own. let me preface this by stating that i am totally against working for free and up to this point, have refused to apply for anything that reeks of taking advantage us inexperienced people fresh out of school, and have, in fact turned down an internship offer that came with a meager stipend because it wouldn't even cover my rent.
ok.
but now i'm starting to think that it's my lack of experience which is a major roadblock to getting an arch job (2 summer internships and one month working for a studio critic pretty much amounts to less than a hill of beans). as much as it disgusts me, i'm starting to think that maybe i do need to suck it up for a few months. ok, so maybe i could swing it. i have almost a month's rent in savings, could probably sell a bike i rarely ride for another, get back on food stamps to cover the eating. if i am able to swing a 3 month leave at my job, i could keep my health insurance. i have very little credit card debt. loans, well i'll worry about that when i come to it. so it could be possible, at least for a few months.
but how do i communicate with people that i'm maybe willing to work for a small stipend for a few months even though i'd rather (and deserve!) a living wage. i'm pretty sure no one really looks at my cover letters, especially when i'm just sending them out to firms with the hope that something might happen. if i tell them i'm willing to "volunteer" or something, i don't want them to automatically devalue my worth/or especially, take advantage of me if they would consider paying me then or some time in the future. i think there was some discussion about this on the similar previous thread that no one could find.
i already feel gross thinking about this, especially since i'm really pissed at others who work for free and who are perpetuating the problem that is screwing the rest of us over. but i sort of think i'm getting left behind, too, and i know i'll hate myself for selling myself short. i know i have a good portfolio, i went to good schools, i'm smart, a hard worker, most people like me (and working with me) but i lack experience in architecture offices (surprisingly, a few years in university research and admin also doesn't count)
thoughts? i know this is sort of long and me thinking out loud, but i'm really seeking advice as to how to hint to others that this might be an option if necessary, but paying me would be better. thanks for listening!
Free... 8/hr... Its all the same and all basically working for free. Our degree curses us to feel lucky to have a 14/hr gig.
Take whatever you can get, because honestly, working for free isnt that much more depressing than working for 8 bucks an hour. And lets be honest, there are 0 jobs on this planet with companies that seem like they actually could give a crap about you and helping you have a good career.
i know i have a good portfolio, i went to good schools, i'm smart, a hard worker, most people like me (and working with me)
I think your bigger issue is the hundreds of unemployed, under-employed, and over-worked architects who are applying to offices, regardless of if they are actually hiring. The applicant pool is so large that offices are in the position to fill the few vacancies that are available with candidates that meet their needs EXACTLY. This comes down to selecting one candidate over another because they have a portfolio of project experience that is nearly identical to what the office is hiring for, or a candidate who has exactly the experience level, skillset, building types, etc. One look through the job boards will demonstrate this fact, as job posts have become increasingly more detailed when it comes down to the requirements for the position.
Sure, advertising to offices that you are willing to work for little to no salary might attract the attention of some, but honestly, this is probably not the environment that will be conductive to learning anything of value you can use later in the profession. Talk to anyone who has spent the summer working for free (generally for a studio instructor) and you will probably find that most had an experience that wasn't worth the name dropping they may (or may not) get on their resume. More often than not, it's going to amount to little more than an extension of academic studio work, which entertaining, provides you little in the way of technical skills that will translate into a real (i.e. paying) position.
Taking into account the financial situation you are describing, that alone should make your decision for you. Knowing every day that you are on the brink of financial peril is not going to make your life any easier. Imagine knowing that you are almost broke, you can't pay the rent AND you have to go a job that isn't even making a dent in the budget. Do you really think you would be able to go to work everyday and be productive, or learn anything?
All you could do to help your chances of getting into an office right now is maybe to spend the next few months working as a serial killer targeting architects, ala Dexter. I joke of course, but the bottom line is that aside from a wish and a miracle, it's going to be hard to cut through the hundreds of resumes that are sitting on every hiring managers desk right now. It's a bad time in the economy and there are plenty of others in the same boat (myself included).
it isn't a wages issue, or at least not much of one. its just that there is no work and a large pool of people to choose from for those who are hiring.
you working for free is probably not an actual saving to a firm since you will need training to be useful. unless that is what they are looking for, the cost to pay your wage is not the actual barrier.
but that is always the hurdle isn't it? nowadays it is just harder to jump because the bar has been set so high by the economic situation.
still, keep trying. the economy will get better....
you can describe the situation as a "trial period" in which you work for a firm without pay under the assumption that if they like your work, and can see you as a benefit to their office that they keep you and pay you a decent wage.
Yup, the world sucks right now. Good luck to us all.
This foreclosure dilemma seems quite disastrous. We have gotten some people starting to liquidate existing inventory, which is not a good thing and will take values farther down.
I don't see how the architecture world will be better for a long time. Perhaps the real estate market will recover, as there is money to be made, but there are so many unnecessary architects out there.
I'd try to leverage what skills you have. Forget what architectural skills you have, there will be plenty with experience willing to work for next to nothing just to have paycheck (and feed the family).
Push what you can learn on your own - 3D, graphics, business (books).
On the brighter side, the stock market seems to be loving earnings (Google is today, that's a big one). Let's all pray that one thing can help give confidence, which gets the economy going.
That DOW 5000 guy is back on...let's hope he continues to be blatantly wrong. And let us all keeping praying, what's better for one is better for all.
Work for a minimal wage or free is not a starter architect's salary. I see that you know that.
Architects spend somewhere between, excuse me, 50K and more than a quarter million dollars to graduate and not even including AIA lifetime fees.
If I was in your shoes, I would propose a 18 bucks an hour for a part time job, half days or 2,5 days per week etc. During this time in the office, I suggest to be very productive.
In an economy like this with scarce work, it's just about the worth of work that they "would" be able to give you to keep you busy.
Besides, that you'll get more respect keeping the profession wages in the right place.
hmm, thanks for the thoughts. books, i like the idea of calling this maybe a trial period without actually putting a number on it. or even an internship, since i'm very entry level still, and a lot of it would be about me learning/getting experience with, say CDs (if anyone's even doing those these days)
purina, med, i have pretty much been avoiding talk of compensation to begin with (unless applying to a position where i have to state "salary requirements").
i'm still interested in reading that other thread that was about a similar topic (working for free with the hopes of it turning into something paid), if anyone can find it...
prairie - i think your approach is wrong for the reasons stated above - too many people, not enough work. however, more fundamentally, i think you're going about this the wrong way:
first and foremost, no matter what your experience level is, don't ever be 'dependent' psychologically on an employer for work (and i'm an employer myself). you're most valuable asset is maintaining an attitude that draws other people to you, not the other way around. all an office offers is a structure to plug into, without having to create the wheel all over again.
so what do i mean? you need experience, for a variety of reasons. but what's your approach? throwing yourself at the mercy (and diminished salary) of an employer who may not really need you? your lower salary isn't what's concerning him, it's that there's no money coming in to maintain keeping you. how do you fix that? get out there, hustle your networks and see if you can find a project, any sized project. don't worry that you can't do it yourself - just be the guy who can deliver the deal. then find a firm you think you can trust and broker a deal with them: you get a 'normal' salary and get to work on the project in exchange for bringing it to them. you're only guaranteed work as long as the project lasts (or the fee), but guess what? you've probably shown more initiative than 99% of your brethren! THAT's what stands out, that's what makes you truly valuable. and that's what will help you keep yourself in the game.
keep your current job, work the network, find a lead, make the deal.
Kudos to outed for a post well done. He seems to understand that in this world, the easiest way to ensure your getting paid by an employer is bring him business, not coffee.
No employer in the world will care how "entry level" you are if you show you are the type to make things happen on your own. Be a doer and you will go far.
I don't want to discredit outed, but is there documented evidence of this happening and working? It sounds like a great plan, providing you have a network of people that have the money and interest in architecture, but it also seems unlikely.
it's both. mostly, it's initiative, but you'd be amazed at what's out there if you just put the feelers out. it's not going to be all 2M homes, but there's people doing home additions, kitchen renos... hell, even if you bring in a solid lead that we have to do a little spec work to help lay the groundwork, i guarantee you're going to get a seat at the table if the employer is living clean.
now, don't waste someone's time with a really vague 'lead' that you know has a 10% chance to pan out. but if it looks legit - and you know you can't do it yourself - make a call. trust me, that call gets returned, rather than a 'hey, do you have a job for me?'....
With all due respect outed, if it was that easy people would be starting successful firms all over the place, not closing up shop.
I have friends/clients that are near broke, that have TONS of connections, established networks, etc., work endlessly trying to secure payment and new work. But in today's world, both are extremely rare.
To ask someone with next to no experience to find a job is really an impossible task.
IF you can find work, then you could get a job at ANY architecture office, it'd be your choice.
"providing you have a network of people that have the money and interest in architecture" as CC points out, you can't just go on Craiglist or talk to some college buddies, you need real connections. Dunno about everyone else, but I didn't even know what that really meant right out of school.
Just being realistic. Finding work and "making it happen" are so much easier said than done. Personally, I think it'd be surmount to winning a small lottery (with similar odds) if anyone could pull that off.
With all due respect outed, if it was that easy people would be starting successful firms all over the place, not closing up shop.
I have friends/clients that are near broke, that have TONS of connections, established networks, etc., work endlessly trying to secure payment and new work. But in today's world, both are extremely rare.
To ask someone with next to no experience to find a job is really an impossible task.
IF you can find work, then you could get a job at ANY architecture office, it'd be your choice.
"providing you have a network of people that have the money and interest in architecture" as CC points out, you can't just go on Craiglist or talk to some college buddies, you need real connections. Dunno about everyone else, but I didn't even know what that really meant right out of school.
Just being realistic. Finding work and "making it happen" are so much easier said than done. Personally, I think it'd be surmount to winning a small lottery (with similar odds) if anyone could pull that off.
trace - no offense taken. never claimed this approach is easy, never claimed there was a ton of work and am fully aware of the reality behind it - we're living through that every day. and, somehow i think you might be transferring a level of size/importance to the work that i'm not. i'm really thinking more along the lines of small home additions, kitchen renos, helping a company pick out some furniture for an office space, etc. not talking about a 5m library or something like that.
that said, it's not impossible - we've gotten two house projects in the last 2 months from just talking to people we knew. both were initially planning to just have a builder do the work (one had already gone far enough along to have designs done).
the common thread between both is that neither thought it would be something we 'would do' or take on, given what our office's primary focus revolves around. they didn't know any other architects, so they went with another alternative. in short, they thought it would be too small and we'd have no interest. that's 2 jobs that weren't there until we dared to ask. we're in discussions with 3 other jobs we found the same way. none of these will have fees more than 10k or so.
all i'm trying to point out is what's a better approach, mentality wise? to wait around and pimp yourself to a firm or make some friends and see where it might lead? i'll take the latter, even knowing the reality involved.
(and i'll dispute the college buddy thing - 3 of our first 5 projects were for former fraternity brothers that were part of our first email announcing the creation of the firm. the other two were friends of friends. completely realize this may be atypical, but it did happen).
Quite frankly, if a firm is not willing to pay you a resonable wage I suggest:
1. Looking for work in a different field
2. Looking for work in a related field (local building dept, construction company, HUD, etc)
3. "Volunteer" at a firm or organization that does work that benefits the underserved (Design Corps, Project H, etc) because if you're going to work for free, it may as well be for a good cause and not to line the pockets of some cheap dipshit looking for free labor. Plus, working for a non-profit will help you get some very marketable skills that could lead to other opportunities.
I suggest moving back in with the 'rents and convincing them to put their retirement savings towards making their home totally off the grid--solar panels, water collection, the whole nine yards. Then, assuming they have nice big front and back yards, buy some seeds and start growing your own food. Time to get back to the days of WWII-style Freedom Farms!
I don't think anybody who isn't a part-time intern should volunteer one's time for a for-profit firm. Maybe for a design research coop or something like that, but not for a firm. It's the principle of it. Fine, work more hours for less pay, discount your services as a subcontractor, accept less salary than you're think you're worth - whatever it takes to make ends meet and advance your career.. but don't volunteer your time.
You can always find somebody to volunteer your services to as an architect, who really needs your help (see Medusa's list above, not to mention many-a-CDC or weatherization not-for-profit or whatever, looking for for design help in inner city or rural areas). If it's mentorship you want, plenty of experienced, sometimes sward-winning architects work directly for such organizations, probably earning next-to-nothing themselves.. you could go work for them and get solid experience. Plus, unlike some for-profit firm these days, they probably have real projects.
Failing that, get to learn Federal ands state grant programs and then approach some CDC or other neighborhood NGO and propose ideas to that, that fit within their visions. Tell them that,working with their name and status for sponsorship, you'll do the legwork, fill out the grant applications, do the followup, etc, and try to get THEM funding to do your own projects on their behalf. Yes, you'll have to convince them that you know what you're doing and won't harm their reputations using their name, but that should be easy enough to do. It beats working for free for a for-profit architecture firm.
In response to Trace and Outed's earlier comments... in my experience, there is a lot of work out there to be had right now, but you have to be willing to take what you can get. I've done everything from kitchen sink repairs to full interior build outs within an existing building. They key is coming across as both knowledgeable and approachable. The whole idea of searching for an architect/contractor/interior designer etc is generally very stressful for people and you;d be amazed at how much work you can get simply through personal connections and word of mouth. And no, you aren't going to land a $2 million house project...
In response to the original question. I am strongly against working for free, regardless of how bad the economy is right now. If you do not assign a value to your skills, you will continue to be taken advantage of and when you do finally land a paying job and have to tell them how much you made at your previous job, the low or non-existent wage will immediately lower your pay prospects. Your best bet might be to pursue a two-job approach. Work part time at something that can pay your bills, ideally something that is not entry level and will give you exposure to meeting people and making connections. In your spare time, who don't you volunteer for an organization such as Habit For Humanity where you will be able to put your skills to use and actually learn something? Alternatively, in some parts of the country there is a thriving business right now in flipping foreclosed homes. You could learn a tremendous amount by working for a real estate company for a period of time. You can also hone your design skills by pursuing freelance projects or entering competitions if you really have a hankering to work for free. Eventually the economy will recover and there will be more opportunities for work.
You have to remember, any "office" that brings on free or low wage help has to be making income somehow. Why should your skills go to support someone who won't support you? Be part of the solution, don't perpetuate this continual problem within our profession.
It all comes down to a lack of work . . .
If a firm has work--and theoretically needs help accomplishing that work--than they can afford to pay you to do that work--after all, they are getting paid for that service. If they don't have any projects, they don't need any help. Bringing you on to do work for free, while they're still getting paid would be serious slap in the face would it not?
Your solution of offering to volunteer is foolish and, as others pointed out, you would be better served looking in other places for other types of work. Just because it's not arch related, doesn't mean it won't benefit you or a future firm someday. A future employer will respect your moxy and clever solutions to an otherwise dreadful situation. Don't worry about gaps in your resume. Just find something that pays the bills and gives you some sort of perspective on something--anything--and then find a clever way of spinning it into a useful experience for your career.
thanks for your responses, though i think i need to make it clear that i do NOT want to work for free. what i do want is someone, i guess, to take a chance on me (so to speak). what i've heard now, several times is "we really like you, but we need someone with a little more real architecture office experience. sorry." i think, at this point, i need to change that, but of course, it's totally a catch 22, because no one will give me the opportunity to get that experience. and so far, my YEARS of "other" experience seems to be worth about zero in the minds of most people working in the field.
i was thinking that it might make me seem a little more competitive (or less of a risk) if i flat out state that i would work for less than maybe my peers with 2-3 years of experience. but at the same time, i don't want to ruin my chances for appropriate compensation, if that's at least a possibility. i only would consider this for real work on cds, or something. and i do know that some people are getting hired. at this point, most of my school's graduating class (may 09) has work, in the field, so there is some work out there...
prairie - the problem for me is that the actions you're contemplating will only (and ultimately) lead to a longer term deflation or at least re-setting of fee expectations on behalf of everyone. if i, as an employer, get used to lower wages, i might keep lowering fees to get work for the office. clients talk and if they get used to 4% being the new 6% which was the new 8%, then it's not going to help anyone.
what i've heard now, several times is "we really like you, but we need someone with a little more real architecture office experience. sorry
The issue is not money. Offering to work for less is not going to make a difference. The problem is that offices need people who can hit the ground running with little to no training. This is largely due to offices holding out until they absolutely need to hire someone, so they already have a backlog of work with too few employees to do it.
It's a Catch-22 situation. When offices have time to train, they don't have work so they won't hire. When they do have work, they don't have time to train.
In your case, what I would suggest is to talk to someone at your university- maybe the alumni department or someone who deals with donations and outreach, perhaps even the academic advisers. What you are looking for is finding out which local offices contribute to the school, via teaching, reviews, donations, etc. Also which local offices are run by alumni. These are the offices that are going to be more willing to work with a student/recent graduate. Instead of approaching them for a job, instead just send a letter of interest. Tell them you are a recent graduate from X-University and you are interested in their office/work etc and would like to tour/talk to them about their work/get advice on professional growth, etc. Play up the alumni card and drop references to people you share a network with. Above all, make it friendly. Architects, without fail, relish the opportunity to talk about themselves and their work.
If you manage to get a meeting with someone, after you let them talk about themselves, just mention you are looking for some career advice and that you know they went to X-university so you were wondering how they got their start in the profession. Allow them to talk more about themselves. Come armed with a resume and portfolio, but don't thrust it at them just yet. Wait until they suggest it or leave it with them at the end.
Essentially, you are trying to network in the hopes of getting a job, rather than just trying to apply for the job you might not be qualifies for. It's not a guarantee it will work, but it's better than just prostituting for the lowest bidder.
Oct 18, 10 7:02 pm ·
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marketing yourself as being willing to work for less, but without shooting yourself in the foot
since no one seemed able to find the other thread that was sort of about this topic i'm going to start my own. let me preface this by stating that i am totally against working for free and up to this point, have refused to apply for anything that reeks of taking advantage us inexperienced people fresh out of school, and have, in fact turned down an internship offer that came with a meager stipend because it wouldn't even cover my rent.
ok.
but now i'm starting to think that it's my lack of experience which is a major roadblock to getting an arch job (2 summer internships and one month working for a studio critic pretty much amounts to less than a hill of beans). as much as it disgusts me, i'm starting to think that maybe i do need to suck it up for a few months. ok, so maybe i could swing it. i have almost a month's rent in savings, could probably sell a bike i rarely ride for another, get back on food stamps to cover the eating. if i am able to swing a 3 month leave at my job, i could keep my health insurance. i have very little credit card debt. loans, well i'll worry about that when i come to it. so it could be possible, at least for a few months.
but how do i communicate with people that i'm maybe willing to work for a small stipend for a few months even though i'd rather (and deserve!) a living wage. i'm pretty sure no one really looks at my cover letters, especially when i'm just sending them out to firms with the hope that something might happen. if i tell them i'm willing to "volunteer" or something, i don't want them to automatically devalue my worth/or especially, take advantage of me if they would consider paying me then or some time in the future. i think there was some discussion about this on the similar previous thread that no one could find.
i already feel gross thinking about this, especially since i'm really pissed at others who work for free and who are perpetuating the problem that is screwing the rest of us over. but i sort of think i'm getting left behind, too, and i know i'll hate myself for selling myself short. i know i have a good portfolio, i went to good schools, i'm smart, a hard worker, most people like me (and working with me) but i lack experience in architecture offices (surprisingly, a few years in university research and admin also doesn't count)
thoughts? i know this is sort of long and me thinking out loud, but i'm really seeking advice as to how to hint to others that this might be an option if necessary, but paying me would be better. thanks for listening!
Free... 8/hr... Its all the same and all basically working for free. Our degree curses us to feel lucky to have a 14/hr gig.
Take whatever you can get, because honestly, working for free isnt that much more depressing than working for 8 bucks an hour. And lets be honest, there are 0 jobs on this planet with companies that seem like they actually could give a crap about you and helping you have a good career.
Im sorry...
-jaded job seeker.
I think your bigger issue is the hundreds of unemployed, under-employed, and over-worked architects who are applying to offices, regardless of if they are actually hiring. The applicant pool is so large that offices are in the position to fill the few vacancies that are available with candidates that meet their needs EXACTLY. This comes down to selecting one candidate over another because they have a portfolio of project experience that is nearly identical to what the office is hiring for, or a candidate who has exactly the experience level, skillset, building types, etc. One look through the job boards will demonstrate this fact, as job posts have become increasingly more detailed when it comes down to the requirements for the position.
Sure, advertising to offices that you are willing to work for little to no salary might attract the attention of some, but honestly, this is probably not the environment that will be conductive to learning anything of value you can use later in the profession. Talk to anyone who has spent the summer working for free (generally for a studio instructor) and you will probably find that most had an experience that wasn't worth the name dropping they may (or may not) get on their resume. More often than not, it's going to amount to little more than an extension of academic studio work, which entertaining, provides you little in the way of technical skills that will translate into a real (i.e. paying) position.
Taking into account the financial situation you are describing, that alone should make your decision for you. Knowing every day that you are on the brink of financial peril is not going to make your life any easier. Imagine knowing that you are almost broke, you can't pay the rent AND you have to go a job that isn't even making a dent in the budget. Do you really think you would be able to go to work everyday and be productive, or learn anything?
All you could do to help your chances of getting into an office right now is maybe to spend the next few months working as a serial killer targeting architects, ala Dexter. I joke of course, but the bottom line is that aside from a wish and a miracle, it's going to be hard to cut through the hundreds of resumes that are sitting on every hiring managers desk right now. It's a bad time in the economy and there are plenty of others in the same boat (myself included).
yup. that sounds about right.
it isn't a wages issue, or at least not much of one. its just that there is no work and a large pool of people to choose from for those who are hiring.
you working for free is probably not an actual saving to a firm since you will need training to be useful. unless that is what they are looking for, the cost to pay your wage is not the actual barrier.
but that is always the hurdle isn't it? nowadays it is just harder to jump because the bar has been set so high by the economic situation.
still, keep trying. the economy will get better....
eventually
you can describe the situation as a "trial period" in which you work for a firm without pay under the assumption that if they like your work, and can see you as a benefit to their office that they keep you and pay you a decent wage.
Yup, the world sucks right now. Good luck to us all.
This foreclosure dilemma seems quite disastrous. We have gotten some people starting to liquidate existing inventory, which is not a good thing and will take values farther down.
I don't see how the architecture world will be better for a long time. Perhaps the real estate market will recover, as there is money to be made, but there are so many unnecessary architects out there.
I'd try to leverage what skills you have. Forget what architectural skills you have, there will be plenty with experience willing to work for next to nothing just to have paycheck (and feed the family).
Push what you can learn on your own - 3D, graphics, business (books).
On the brighter side, the stock market seems to be loving earnings (Google is today, that's a big one). Let's all pray that one thing can help give confidence, which gets the economy going.
That DOW 5000 guy is back on...let's hope he continues to be blatantly wrong. And let us all keeping praying, what's better for one is better for all.
Work for a minimal wage or free is not a starter architect's salary. I see that you know that.
Architects spend somewhere between, excuse me, 50K and more than a quarter million dollars to graduate and not even including AIA lifetime fees.
If I was in your shoes, I would propose a 18 bucks an hour for a part time job, half days or 2,5 days per week etc. During this time in the office, I suggest to be very productive.
In an economy like this with scarce work, it's just about the worth of work that they "would" be able to give you to keep you busy.
Besides, that you'll get more respect keeping the profession wages in the right place.
Good luck...
Just dfon't be inclinded to be low-balled....or to make the first move on pay.... Let them do the talking.
Just dfon't be inclinded to be low-balled....or to make the first move on pay.... Let them do the talking.
hmm, thanks for the thoughts. books, i like the idea of calling this maybe a trial period without actually putting a number on it. or even an internship, since i'm very entry level still, and a lot of it would be about me learning/getting experience with, say CDs (if anyone's even doing those these days)
purina, med, i have pretty much been avoiding talk of compensation to begin with (unless applying to a position where i have to state "salary requirements").
i'm still interested in reading that other thread that was about a similar topic (working for free with the hopes of it turning into something paid), if anyone can find it...
prairie - i think your approach is wrong for the reasons stated above - too many people, not enough work. however, more fundamentally, i think you're going about this the wrong way:
first and foremost, no matter what your experience level is, don't ever be 'dependent' psychologically on an employer for work (and i'm an employer myself). you're most valuable asset is maintaining an attitude that draws other people to you, not the other way around. all an office offers is a structure to plug into, without having to create the wheel all over again.
so what do i mean? you need experience, for a variety of reasons. but what's your approach? throwing yourself at the mercy (and diminished salary) of an employer who may not really need you? your lower salary isn't what's concerning him, it's that there's no money coming in to maintain keeping you. how do you fix that? get out there, hustle your networks and see if you can find a project, any sized project. don't worry that you can't do it yourself - just be the guy who can deliver the deal. then find a firm you think you can trust and broker a deal with them: you get a 'normal' salary and get to work on the project in exchange for bringing it to them. you're only guaranteed work as long as the project lasts (or the fee), but guess what? you've probably shown more initiative than 99% of your brethren! THAT's what stands out, that's what makes you truly valuable. and that's what will help you keep yourself in the game.
keep your current job, work the network, find a lead, make the deal.
get it done.
Kudos to outed for a post well done. He seems to understand that in this world, the easiest way to ensure your getting paid by an employer is bring him business, not coffee.
No employer in the world will care how "entry level" you are if you show you are the type to make things happen on your own. Be a doer and you will go far.
Good luck.
I don't want to discredit outed, but is there documented evidence of this happening and working? It sounds like a great plan, providing you have a network of people that have the money and interest in architecture, but it also seems unlikely.
I think his post more refers to that type of attitude and initiative... I could be wrong...
it's both. mostly, it's initiative, but you'd be amazed at what's out there if you just put the feelers out. it's not going to be all 2M homes, but there's people doing home additions, kitchen renos... hell, even if you bring in a solid lead that we have to do a little spec work to help lay the groundwork, i guarantee you're going to get a seat at the table if the employer is living clean.
now, don't waste someone's time with a really vague 'lead' that you know has a 10% chance to pan out. but if it looks legit - and you know you can't do it yourself - make a call. trust me, that call gets returned, rather than a 'hey, do you have a job for me?'....
With all due respect outed, if it was that easy people would be starting successful firms all over the place, not closing up shop.
I have friends/clients that are near broke, that have TONS of connections, established networks, etc., work endlessly trying to secure payment and new work. But in today's world, both are extremely rare.
To ask someone with next to no experience to find a job is really an impossible task.
IF you can find work, then you could get a job at ANY architecture office, it'd be your choice.
"providing you have a network of people that have the money and interest in architecture" as CC points out, you can't just go on Craiglist or talk to some college buddies, you need real connections. Dunno about everyone else, but I didn't even know what that really meant right out of school.
Just being realistic. Finding work and "making it happen" are so much easier said than done. Personally, I think it'd be surmount to winning a small lottery (with similar odds) if anyone could pull that off.
With all due respect outed, if it was that easy people would be starting successful firms all over the place, not closing up shop.
I have friends/clients that are near broke, that have TONS of connections, established networks, etc., work endlessly trying to secure payment and new work. But in today's world, both are extremely rare.
To ask someone with next to no experience to find a job is really an impossible task.
IF you can find work, then you could get a job at ANY architecture office, it'd be your choice.
"providing you have a network of people that have the money and interest in architecture" as CC points out, you can't just go on Craiglist or talk to some college buddies, you need real connections. Dunno about everyone else, but I didn't even know what that really meant right out of school.
Just being realistic. Finding work and "making it happen" are so much easier said than done. Personally, I think it'd be surmount to winning a small lottery (with similar odds) if anyone could pull that off.
trace - no offense taken. never claimed this approach is easy, never claimed there was a ton of work and am fully aware of the reality behind it - we're living through that every day. and, somehow i think you might be transferring a level of size/importance to the work that i'm not. i'm really thinking more along the lines of small home additions, kitchen renos, helping a company pick out some furniture for an office space, etc. not talking about a 5m library or something like that.
that said, it's not impossible - we've gotten two house projects in the last 2 months from just talking to people we knew. both were initially planning to just have a builder do the work (one had already gone far enough along to have designs done).
the common thread between both is that neither thought it would be something we 'would do' or take on, given what our office's primary focus revolves around. they didn't know any other architects, so they went with another alternative. in short, they thought it would be too small and we'd have no interest. that's 2 jobs that weren't there until we dared to ask. we're in discussions with 3 other jobs we found the same way. none of these will have fees more than 10k or so.
all i'm trying to point out is what's a better approach, mentality wise? to wait around and pimp yourself to a firm or make some friends and see where it might lead? i'll take the latter, even knowing the reality involved.
(and i'll dispute the college buddy thing - 3 of our first 5 projects were for former fraternity brothers that were part of our first email announcing the creation of the firm. the other two were friends of friends. completely realize this may be atypical, but it did happen).
Quite frankly, if a firm is not willing to pay you a resonable wage I suggest:
1. Looking for work in a different field
2. Looking for work in a related field (local building dept, construction company, HUD, etc)
3. "Volunteer" at a firm or organization that does work that benefits the underserved (Design Corps, Project H, etc) because if you're going to work for free, it may as well be for a good cause and not to line the pockets of some cheap dipshit looking for free labor. Plus, working for a non-profit will help you get some very marketable skills that could lead to other opportunities.
Good luck and never sell yourself short!
I suggest moving back in with the 'rents and convincing them to put their retirement savings towards making their home totally off the grid--solar panels, water collection, the whole nine yards. Then, assuming they have nice big front and back yards, buy some seeds and start growing your own food. Time to get back to the days of WWII-style Freedom Farms!
I don't think anybody who isn't a part-time intern should volunteer one's time for a for-profit firm. Maybe for a design research coop or something like that, but not for a firm. It's the principle of it. Fine, work more hours for less pay, discount your services as a subcontractor, accept less salary than you're think you're worth - whatever it takes to make ends meet and advance your career.. but don't volunteer your time.
You can always find somebody to volunteer your services to as an architect, who really needs your help (see Medusa's list above, not to mention many-a-CDC or weatherization not-for-profit or whatever, looking for for design help in inner city or rural areas). If it's mentorship you want, plenty of experienced, sometimes sward-winning architects work directly for such organizations, probably earning next-to-nothing themselves.. you could go work for them and get solid experience. Plus, unlike some for-profit firm these days, they probably have real projects.
Failing that, get to learn Federal ands state grant programs and then approach some CDC or other neighborhood NGO and propose ideas to that, that fit within their visions. Tell them that,working with their name and status for sponsorship, you'll do the legwork, fill out the grant applications, do the followup, etc, and try to get THEM funding to do your own projects on their behalf. Yes, you'll have to convince them that you know what you're doing and won't harm their reputations using their name, but that should be easy enough to do. It beats working for free for a for-profit architecture firm.
In response to Trace and Outed's earlier comments... in my experience, there is a lot of work out there to be had right now, but you have to be willing to take what you can get. I've done everything from kitchen sink repairs to full interior build outs within an existing building. They key is coming across as both knowledgeable and approachable. The whole idea of searching for an architect/contractor/interior designer etc is generally very stressful for people and you;d be amazed at how much work you can get simply through personal connections and word of mouth. And no, you aren't going to land a $2 million house project...
In response to the original question. I am strongly against working for free, regardless of how bad the economy is right now. If you do not assign a value to your skills, you will continue to be taken advantage of and when you do finally land a paying job and have to tell them how much you made at your previous job, the low or non-existent wage will immediately lower your pay prospects. Your best bet might be to pursue a two-job approach. Work part time at something that can pay your bills, ideally something that is not entry level and will give you exposure to meeting people and making connections. In your spare time, who don't you volunteer for an organization such as Habit For Humanity where you will be able to put your skills to use and actually learn something? Alternatively, in some parts of the country there is a thriving business right now in flipping foreclosed homes. You could learn a tremendous amount by working for a real estate company for a period of time. You can also hone your design skills by pursuing freelance projects or entering competitions if you really have a hankering to work for free. Eventually the economy will recover and there will be more opportunities for work.
You have to remember, any "office" that brings on free or low wage help has to be making income somehow. Why should your skills go to support someone who won't support you? Be part of the solution, don't perpetuate this continual problem within our profession.
It all comes down to a lack of work . . .
If a firm has work--and theoretically needs help accomplishing that work--than they can afford to pay you to do that work--after all, they are getting paid for that service. If they don't have any projects, they don't need any help. Bringing you on to do work for free, while they're still getting paid would be serious slap in the face would it not?
Your solution of offering to volunteer is foolish and, as others pointed out, you would be better served looking in other places for other types of work. Just because it's not arch related, doesn't mean it won't benefit you or a future firm someday. A future employer will respect your moxy and clever solutions to an otherwise dreadful situation. Don't worry about gaps in your resume. Just find something that pays the bills and gives you some sort of perspective on something--anything--and then find a clever way of spinning it into a useful experience for your career.
"It all comes down to a lack of work . . ."
More like a lack of marketing and a lack of inflexibility.
AECOM itself has a project backlog totaling almost $9.7 billion dollars. That comprises roughly 25% of the entire AEC industry as a whole.
There's work out there. A lot of it.
thanks for your responses, though i think i need to make it clear that i do NOT want to work for free. what i do want is someone, i guess, to take a chance on me (so to speak). what i've heard now, several times is "we really like you, but we need someone with a little more real architecture office experience. sorry." i think, at this point, i need to change that, but of course, it's totally a catch 22, because no one will give me the opportunity to get that experience. and so far, my YEARS of "other" experience seems to be worth about zero in the minds of most people working in the field.
i was thinking that it might make me seem a little more competitive (or less of a risk) if i flat out state that i would work for less than maybe my peers with 2-3 years of experience. but at the same time, i don't want to ruin my chances for appropriate compensation, if that's at least a possibility. i only would consider this for real work on cds, or something. and i do know that some people are getting hired. at this point, most of my school's graduating class (may 09) has work, in the field, so there is some work out there...
prairie - the problem for me is that the actions you're contemplating will only (and ultimately) lead to a longer term deflation or at least re-setting of fee expectations on behalf of everyone. if i, as an employer, get used to lower wages, i might keep lowering fees to get work for the office. clients talk and if they get used to 4% being the new 6% which was the new 8%, then it's not going to help anyone.
just my thoughts.
The issue is not money. Offering to work for less is not going to make a difference. The problem is that offices need people who can hit the ground running with little to no training. This is largely due to offices holding out until they absolutely need to hire someone, so they already have a backlog of work with too few employees to do it.
It's a Catch-22 situation. When offices have time to train, they don't have work so they won't hire. When they do have work, they don't have time to train.
In your case, what I would suggest is to talk to someone at your university- maybe the alumni department or someone who deals with donations and outreach, perhaps even the academic advisers. What you are looking for is finding out which local offices contribute to the school, via teaching, reviews, donations, etc. Also which local offices are run by alumni. These are the offices that are going to be more willing to work with a student/recent graduate. Instead of approaching them for a job, instead just send a letter of interest. Tell them you are a recent graduate from X-University and you are interested in their office/work etc and would like to tour/talk to them about their work/get advice on professional growth, etc. Play up the alumni card and drop references to people you share a network with. Above all, make it friendly. Architects, without fail, relish the opportunity to talk about themselves and their work.
If you manage to get a meeting with someone, after you let them talk about themselves, just mention you are looking for some career advice and that you know they went to X-university so you were wondering how they got their start in the profession. Allow them to talk more about themselves. Come armed with a resume and portfolio, but don't thrust it at them just yet. Wait until they suggest it or leave it with them at the end.
Essentially, you are trying to network in the hopes of getting a job, rather than just trying to apply for the job you might not be qualifies for. It's not a guarantee it will work, but it's better than just prostituting for the lowest bidder.
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