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Frankly, I do not care if these models are buildable. They are uninteresting and unprovocative as images. As a-f mentioned, the operations Per uses to produce them are far from novel, and while yes, they are not to be found in an out-of-the-box version of AutoCad, they can be easily performed in programs such as Rhino, 3dMax, FormZ, Maya...anything more suited for modeling.
Per, you have found yourself in a crowd that wants to hear your ideas, but does not have the patience to endure a self-promoted fixation, which is more of a banal transformation tool than a visionary architectural polemic, from an individual who has little, to no awareness, of the circumstances and subjects of current architectural discourse. Whether appealing to you or not, Per, architecture is in part, an academic endeavor. You should curb the ego, offer some true incite, and understand the productivity in a non-unilateral conversation.
Could you take a look at the this image (it an artist's rendering of the Houston Astrodome) and tell me how this solution differs from what you're proposing?Astrodome Rendering
Now what's wrong with 16 bit ;))
Anyway replacing 20 different materials with one save the 19.
I mean then you "saved" the different profiles boards fittings and nails knees and bolts beside bricks ,with one material you acturly do things simpler, simpler with fewer materials one only.
With this material you can develob practical any structure where a honeycomb structures strength is an issue. Beside this I made 12 years ago today I develob building methods not boat designs and havn't done so for decades as years ago with computer programs and pen plotters to draw out the outlines full scale.
3D-HoneyComb is way different from the attitude forming boat hulls shaping the design and fit the sails, today the right link will be ;
3D-Honeycomb was the ansver for anyone wanting a digital shaped hull, a building to , many nice structures would profit, if you don't want to make it cheap and easy don't use this.
What material would you envision selecting to build something like the image I posted using your technology?
I would not say if this is a 3D-HoneyComb structure I do not think so as without frames meeting 90 deg, there are not much simpleness about it, way more difficult to acturly produce, compared somthing just cut flat it must be more expnsive to produce without a general assembly idear, but anyway the structure in the graphic is a shell structure, 3D-HoneyComb can produce that but also offer the floors and walls, a mesh structure do not. you can not expand that shell structure as a seperat building block containing spaces 3D-H can and do it easyer than anything working with computers. It is a Direct Link building method, no one can blame me for their bad designs, pick up a tool and decide to make the vorse scrap, why build a stinking hell, when you can make a heaven. ---- Sure there are a bit fanatism progressing my Pony, but realy shuldn't somone who belive architecture shuld be projected right and focus the Design towerds acturly Digital manufactoring have a voice today ,you want nice houses in a nice design and expect a swiss coo ku ,Man the future are not build in wooden logs there are not straw on the roof.
Unless this is the cast well for arguments we did not reach the moon (3D do not work we can't calculate the computer is drunk) just aswell realise, draw it 3D you have a gurantie it work not a gurantie it is beautifull.
Pixelhore I just do the tools, I am a designer not an architect.
Remember I have to tell you that there are different attitudes, the Lego Mind tradisional and replacing it all ,esp. the xpensive parts, with a plain cheap material, done with programs that follow very different leads. When I design it I work ontop the intire academic foundation ,how do you think CAD work good or bad ?
If you say 3D-HoneyComb is ugly it could be your own reflections ,not a material formed by somone with real skills, why shuld I provide the actural model, I am not a bookkeper but a designer, I make building methods I belive in hands-on rather than just paper paper I don't use paper for that.
What's realy wrong with computers Romans.
you know what per...
youre right...we're all just insanely jealous of your incredible time saving, practical, beautiful, innovating, exciting, and motivating system of structure.... you figured us all out...
how'd you do it??
amazing...like..MY work and every other architect and designer in the god given world is nothing in comparison to your outstanding animations and renderings undoubtedly completed on that state of the art monster machine in your picture there. http://home20.inet.tele.dk/h-3d/stv-1.jpg
man....just when i thought that those tablets we used in middle school were totally obselete...i'm throwing my stupid wireless mouse away as we speak...
i mean- even the connection details- although we cant see them whatsoever in any fashion at all anywhere in the renderings- they are so incredibly well thought out- just like- HEY- its JUST LIKE BUILDING A BOAT! note to self: i shall build a building with absolutely no drawings except a spinning gif file with terrible mapping and explain the validity of it's details in extra long and exceptionally bad grammatical html text- only posting images of real live wooden (small, mind you) boats as precedent for my qualifications as a "true artist and designer"
shall i go on in appraisal of your outstanding work per? i mean- the materials on your buildings- i'm sorry- "works of art... http://home20.inet.tele.dk/h-3d/3D-H-Gotic-4.gif ...oh my... just speechless... while others laugh, i have seen your genius light- doubt not my software develobing friend- they will all come to see the truth of your magnificent work shortly.....
and to close, i want to commend your outright slanderous defense of this heavenly system of construction- no matter HOW out of line you become, you never ever open your ear to an ion of criticism. a classic. standing ovation. you- and only you deserve it....
Al Jeff, with such great structure is proberly is right to look into 3D-HoneyComb's ability to let light pass from come directions at the same time covering 90 deg towerds that. Also such structure will be best in combined scale dtructures some making an outher framework others in maby different sheet material forming the combine of several scale and material framework.
Beside first forming the seats ontop usefull spaces must be a gain ,then the sliced Dome is an easy task in simple framework
A puzzlw building compoment framework leaving maneagable pieces would pay the expences ,true 3D-H is great for esp huge structures, even it also make use of cheap eco sheet materials for big or small, depanding if it is interiours or structure , you don't need to build high to be on the edge but a lookalike is easy to reconise, there are an idea to it among the resons in that, just making everything in one material shuld be argument enough ontop that come the new options in design and strength..
Kyll what CAD program do you use what is your oppinion about Revit, have you ever build from a plan I just wonder, as I do not think software designers shuld build buildings ,they are to Faggot.
Glad you found a meaning with your life, but hear must it be so suck, I mean hounting your selfblown image of somone can not be as plesant as making nice things. --- or you maby don't know or care about nice things, sad for you.
Is it just me, or is Per posting the exact same links over and over again, supposedly in support of various points he is making?
"...oh my... just speechless... while others laugh, i have seen your genius light- doubt not my software develobing friend- they will all come to see the truth of your magnificent work shortly....."
Said with slimy irony you can tell your master on that day you done your best makintg the place a stinking hell.
Real art sure, now software enginers shuld not design the houses and faggots shuld stay in the music ,what CAD program do you use what do you think about Revit, the rest you can se yourself, is plain vaste you don't even show anything relevant yourself, you respond to your own projected picture, this is not good for you ,you suffer.
Hi Maby a dull and social well spoken promise of somthing everyone will not admit they don't understand is better than new jobs and a revvolution in arts, but it will not last as long.
Maby when the artist avoid the vision or make dull spetches where the origine of the gains fade away is better than somthing you don't want as it make the digital production make even better sense, then maby you will ask what the clotches are made of, where they reside how they ever shuld be made --- was it in ten years well the world alway's asked tailors how do you wear a bloop ?
but I don't look so hot in a bloop.
irony?me? never that...
and when did we revert to name-calling?
keep it above the belt there. you've already ridiculed yourself with your inadequate work and overzealous explanations of your inadequate work with the same useless text repeatedly- leaving gaping holes of doubt. you dont need me to begin calling out names, because i really could. choose not to because its really not that important.
and yes- i do suffer a little. not from my designs or anyone else's for that matter. i suffer from closed minded people like yourself- sitting there judging and calling all of us close minded because we dont buy into half-thought dim-lit bullshit. i tend to call that objectiveness. freedom of speech, expression -including useful criticism. intelligence. all of which you choose to ignore- - in hopes of gaining some sort of prize at the end.
and i have no master to tell that to. but let's find me one- explain this statement in english please:..D-HoneyComb is ugly it could be your own reflections ,not a material formed by somone with real skills, why shuld I provide the actural model, I am not a bookkeper but a designer, I make building methods I belive in hands-on rather than just paper paper I don't use paper for that.
better yet- this: Pixelhore I just do the tools, I am a designer not an architect.
orAl Jeff, with such great structure is proberly is right to look into 3D-HoneyComb's ability to let light pass from come directions at the same time covering 90 deg towerds that.
i dont understand those statements. you want us to believe in your system? then begin there. then build what you are saying. is that clear enough for you?
Just a suggestion to Paul for future threads as tenuous as this one has become. Can we have some type of poll were we can vote to archive based on on a majority vote from users so the thread is frozen? Because all he is going to do is bump this thread everyday. This has turned into nothing but a flood (from Per in this case). This gem of a thread is not worth deleting because there are some important thoughts and criticisms from everyone.
I think Per is actually Megahal...!
Why would 90 degree connections be better?
Becaurse when you manufctor building frames by strait cutting sheet material with the simplest water or laser cutter, you at the same time make the assembly slots exact fit. Now remember that the building part that is automaticly generated carry a number and is in full size.
It is the N.C. codes for cutting the ready building frame not the non existing spaces around you produce the actural structure the assembly slots proberly can be made smarter or even intiligent please I promised that there are lots of develobment and I never said this is more than the point in a new direction.
I think I've got it now. Your system depends upon CNC manufacturing. This won't work with sheet material because sheet is worthless as a structural member (architecture scale) unless it is somewhow reinforced to prevent bending in the weak direction....which is solved by having the frames criss-cross often. So the real problem to be solved in your system is assembly of the frames, not how to fabricate them.
Pre-assembly of frames in the shop (panelization) would be important for cost reasons - so the question becomes how do you assemble the panels in the field. You would need some nifty connections.
At this point in thinking about it I just don't know what advantages (material cost, ease of assembly, span to depth ratios, elimination of trades, fire-resistance, ease of repair, ease of post-construction modifications) this system provides other than a theortical simplicity - but that's only for academics.
"You just proven that you know nothing about CAD, what you write is nonsense to a CAD profesional."
Well, if that's the best answer you can give to my remarks.... I work on a daily basis with AutoCAD, in a professional firm. I also write modeling tools with my own scripts in MELScript (Maya), based on post-graduate studies in differential geometry, engineering and alternative modernism. But this is only the architecture part, I used to work professionally as a C++ programmer before starting my architecture studies - so I'm also doing some of my own stuff in Processing and PureData (I doubt that you ever heard of these systems though). So if you think that I know nothing about this... actually, you remind me of "K'42 Karei" on the eu-gene maillist a few years ago, which actually was a computer program that gave arrogant and incomprehensible answers to valid critique and questions.
Hey Per, maybe you for once can give a clear answer to the issue I raised in the post, before writing another sad piece on misunderstood Danish artists in the 30's. I give it to you again, here it is:
More irritating though, is that you somehow claim to have invented a structural system that is already in use! 45 degree rotation is not enough of an "innovation" to me, especially if the only thing it adds is to make the structure more weak.
Agree with Pimp Minister Pete Nice last comment.
Paul should just stop this thread but let it available for reading. Ther's nothing more to come out of it anyway.
Per's comments are the Symmerithanian mirror, Tain't it?
El Jeffe and Kyll you both will profit from seing what architecture , -- the digital architecture provide in this contry have of visions for the future .
The link point to a contest a few years ago and this is the first price project. Now please tell me where you se the influence of this first price in today's architecture, remember this is very trendy very bloop like ;http://www.kollision.dk/nwol/
I love the subtle use of the atari logo
a-f you just proved you know nothing about structures , halve notches been used since the pyramides was cast ,any carpenter know where you go wrong, any engineer will protest towerds this "argument" , ------ now what about making the framework in thick styrofoam wrap it with carbon fiber and add epoxy --- don't you think this will make the perfect foundation structure for a helicopter, if you say no you know nothing as this is the way you today produce extreamly strong frameworks in these special applications, just remember to flush out the styrofioam with acetone , can you even emagine just this small application.
Now that _you_ can not emagine, _could_ tell somthing about your emagination, you se out of 1000 who respond that this is exiting and fantastic ,there alway's be one who simply hate when somone show some skills, you seem to do so in a way that make the working life in many offices a hell, for anyone "who think he is somthing".
We have a special name for this harmfull sort of bullying in danish. I know the sort of social harasment you manifest made much harm for many people , don't brag about it you will not be a hero by harassing others you just make any group into a living hell ,for anyone.
du kan godt svare pa dansk, hvis du har problem med engelsk. Well never mind, it will propably only be minutes until this thread is frozen, since you always avoid answering to the questions people have - instead being hyper-aggressive to anyone criticizing 3D-H. One last note: yes, carbon fibre + epoxy has been used to make structures in architecture. See e.g. Wilhelmsons exhibition system in Frankfurt Messe - a highly interesting project because of the geometrical problems they had when manufacturing the panels. What one tends to forget though is that labour costs money, someone has to polish those ultra-smooth polystyren blocks (add to this the fact, that people making these things usually are paid very well). And well, they are often one-off moulds.
P.S. I love the way you say the pyramides were "cast"! Ikeda, Balmond and Conzett haven't taught me anything apparently.
a-f as you know I responded to each question, maby you can't "se" it but the ansver is obvious to 999 out of 1000 , --- the point is that "a picture say more than 1000 words.
Second, you point to the most extreme expensive solution ,in a process where there was a problem acturly solved with cheap sheet material just with a different attitude, you claim that epoxy panels is the solution , solution for what ; to make cheap houses no.
To make these, you need to turn upside down all our tradisionalism and investigate the new true digital options, and people like you shuld realise that fighting those "who think they are somthing" shuld not be done by bullying or with the useal usenet social harasment , realy epoxy floors make no places to live except in space and even there everyone who know, realise the problems with these materials and look for better and simpler solutions.
Now you cry for closing the tread, well check Captain Ok's promises of a bright future and the nonsense formulars ,do you think this make a family house or a flat that cost less than 4 million kroner for 100 sq.meters.
Your bid is to make it in epoxy as this make an interesting solution to very difficult structural problems, well what about making it in the cheapest material avaible ,what about realising that when you talk about real work ,then somone who can build a boat with closed eyes must know better, what about ansvering yourself --- I made many questions you never ansvered I could pick line by line from this tread , but maby you think architecture shuld keep on dreaming, in that case check out what results Captain Ok maneaged, I mean this contest was years ago where are the actural results of that ?http://www.kollision.dk/nwol/
Per definitely show some skills at being a morron. Impressive work dude. Keep on talking, it's always fun to stop by and see you calling everybody else an idiot.
Aw, Per you're hopeless.... *You* proposed carbon fibre + epoxy, I just gave you an example in all generosity for you to study, and you call this bullying. I can't believe this discussion... will stop now since it's not leading anywhere.
I'm gonna go listen to some Danielson Familie instead.
I have now descided that instead of doing CDs all day, I will instead constantly check this thread for new posts do primarily to the constantly increasing humor-value.
And this is why I love archinect .
Frensh ; I know for sure I never used that word, you claim so what do that make you ? ---- please refere the post where I used that word.
That architecture is locked in a situation where highly prized competitions years ago proven to be a bad lead, is proven by the cost of a flat in today's cold glas and steel monsters, in denmark we build family flats at a cost of 4 mill kroner for 100 sq.meters ,more and more jobs is lost progress is talking not acting. Around the world you se how bad buildings respond and still architecture is about theori not about providing the new technology but rather to protect the settled.
Now when you se a picture of a pipe, do you then respond "this is a pipe". Or as with my posts do you se words never used ?
Pixelhore this is the right attitude.
Sorry I just realised that I contribuate just as much to the mud throwing, --- I know I am to blame but all I do is to show how expensive special fittings and 20 different expensive rigid strait profiles can be replaced with one material only and in a brand new technike that acturly work with computers.
Hope some more graphics can make it up ;http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/thumbnails/3162.jpghttp://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2821.jpghttp://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2806.jpghttp://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2252.jpghttp://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2250.jpghttp://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2000.jpghttp://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/1902.jpghttp://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/1878.jpg
Now I never said these are the best graphics, I don't even say they are good designs, these graphics just show a new attitude a cheap building method, one that reach directly from CAD drawing to the mashin that acturly produce the individual building frame.
Han sag bara baten.
Men mannen, som bodde i narheten, ville inte hjalpa honom. Solen har gatt ned, alltsa ar det afton.
now you can go ahead...There's only you two left...
The other day I was told france is a fantasy land a no land, a land that don't exist but is invented by german tour sellers. The language shuld be bla. bla. bla. just meaningless silli words everyone can se is no language, but payed minics ,actors blabbering an non existing language . Hitler is said to get his stakato from when he realised france don't exist.
Except from some huge Dome buildings in Belgium and near Hamburg, Acturly it is just germany on the other side of the frensh german border , all to make the tourists pay. Eifel Tower ; realy wouldn't Nurenburg be a more natural place ?
Bet you are canadian rather than Frensh you proberly don't even know what Frensh is , you count as a frensh anyway still that's far better than a brit.
you will cause a scandal in EU.
Well this didn't ;http://www.kollision.dk/nwol/
Now if I could just pick copy and paste ,make dull words and make use of the social thing arts evolved to be, I guess I would sell some tickets. But I am in it for somthing else ,and it is not the pictures you se in the films or what the settled academic crowd find harmless, guess what is realy wrong is that I find showbuisness and arts being not nessery the same thing ,that I find a house must be more than just attitude and fame for the architect, that it is acturly more important to project a good home. Guess a few in this tread could aswell have said "you don't wear curly hair so how can you be a designer" ,
Anyway untill next time some happy artist shout "Hi all you fancy graphics lovers" please note that this is different, this is new and this acturly make a direct link from CAD drawing to manufsctoring mashin;http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2648.jpg
No No I did not make it as how tou think, there are other way's try follow one section after the other, then tell me again this is not new or buy some new glasses, http://www.designcommunity.com/scrapbook/images/2660.jpg
atleast agrea if you don't even follow the links
Have a nice day
Oh, this one looks just like Foster's tower in London...but not quite as good really.
Per what is the usual tool for architects to project? Drawings. Can there be a good project in a bad drawing? No. The project IS the drawing. But if you just want people to "agrea", then wow, that is just the most amazing project on earth.
"The project IS the drawing"
Not if you're the client shelling out the cash it isn't.
I think architects get into big problems when they think that the drawing is their project - the drawing is a tool to complete the project. Even if the project is conceived as an un-built exercise - the drawing is still just a tool to complete the project - the project in that case is an argument. This is exactly Per's situation - however he insists that the argument is grounded in construction but he won't cross the line to prove it and he won't listen to others with experience in architectural-scaled construction who are trying to help him cross the line.
Just to clarify what I was meaning: if you give your client a crapy drawing it's going to be very hard to convince him that your project is good. I don't mean that one has to consider the drawing or the image as an end, but that the only way to have something to happen is to present convincing drawing (or models). Only through precise and efficient representation the conceptor can clarify his original idea before it can get build, and to me, most architect tend to forget about that, on the contrary. The drawing is not the goal, but it is a snapshot of your idea, and the only presence of a project before it gets build.
If this presence is weak, inefficient and ugly, you have good chances to get nothing better in the end.
Hey...guys...keep your eye on the ball here. we're trying to bash Per, remember?
At times, it seems the most important part of the Architects' day is to convince the client. This, to many, seems to be the architectural act. What is it about the act of making the client say "yes" over ride the design process and even the building process. Could it be, then, that when the AIA hijacked the word "architect", they hijacked the wrong word. How does "convincing" work into the definition of architecture: archi-techne?
You make the ansver, as everyone know, it shuld not be my attitude, to shape any design this is not within resonable claims, is is new or is it new I don\t care beside don\t use it unless you build somthing special. I am a designer not an architect, so I have to focus on side effects such as the digital aproch ,if you want to form hell it will make this full 3D , still what\s realy wrong about a heaven ,now it became so handy.
Listen there are better skilled artists than I , even a few real good I known either was wordblind or totaly arogant some often vasteless drunk, I just want nice highrise buildings architecture to pay, lots of spaces new jobs. You don\t ask a dancer to write or a writer to sing his words, I will be happy if just providing a direct Link building method, the free choice is part of it, but true I want you to know.
I probably have a language problem. I really didn't get this last sentence at all...
Sorry for this interruption jmac.
*I want you to know*
"Oh, this one looks just like Foster's tower in London...but not quite as good really."
Ofcaurse not, when I wisited the place my son said "gosh how 70's like" but I am sure he also find it nice. I find it very nice. Now can anyone ever make somthing just as nice.
"Per what is the usual tool for architects to project? Drawings. Can there be a good project in a bad drawing? No. The project IS the drawing. But if you just want people to "agrea", then wow, that is just the most amazing project on earth."
The people must se, not what they expect as then you don't decide, but it have to be beautifull , othervise it is not nice. Still emagine there was just 8 bit CAD in the 20' or even vorse before emagine what would be there ,and maby forever, but ofcaurse that was when people realy tried , back when they realy made art when there was more crafts to it.
Sorry what I mean is that it is already there in their mind, you just point it out.