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Our hearts are with the families at Sandy Hook Elementary School
Young children wait outside Sandy Hook Elementary School after a shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, December 14, 2012. A shooter opened fire at the elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, on Friday, killing dozens including children, the Hartford Courant newspaper reported. REUTERS/Michelle McLoughlin
I'm sorry for using this platform for a personal, off-topic, message. It's been a while since I have. But, today's tragedy in Connecticut is about as sad as it gets. This isn't an issue of politics or civil rights. This is an issue about humanity, and good vs. evil. I hope that if anything positive comes out of today's event, it's that the gun control debate will end in this country.
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18 Comments
Kind of ironic that all these guns incidents are popping up at the same time that the Federal government in America is ramping up surveillance of private citizens and curtailing individual rights. It would be a massive, massive mistake for Americans to give up the right to bear arms at the same time that their freedom is most at risk.
Guns are freedom, yo!
I'm sick to my stomach. And furious, gritting my teeth with rage. I'll go pick up my son now, and try not to weep when I see him.
The "gun control debate" needs to be reframed as the "end crazy massacres" debate. Everyone wants an end tro crazy massacres. Gun control doesn't have to mean an end to owning guns (the conclusion to which you've immediately leaped, Handsum). Guns make it easier for crazy people to do crazy things. We clearly - CLEARLY - need better mental health care in this country. But we can parallel that with a rational view towards what types of guns are allowed to be privately owned and how they are distributed. I mean, privately owned nuclear and biological weapons are totally banned and know one thinks that's unconstitutional, right?
Of course, the first gun was recently made, then fired, on a privately owned 3D printer, so while that horse runs around outside the barn I think we need to discuss mental health and access.
Good lord.
what a waste - can't believe Huckabee is blaming the separation of church and state for this. insanity enough to go around...
Sane people do not go around shooting innocents. These people are sick, they are not criminals...they are mentally disturbed and need treatment.
Watch during the holiday season now and try to count all of the ads for "click it or ticket" or "over the limit, under arrest". How much money do we waste on these campaigns when we should be reaching out and educating the public on the mental health resources available to people who need it. That's how you stop tragedies, not taking away people's ability to defend themselves or politicizing tragedies to further your own agenda.
Handsum is right, think about the freedom you had 12 years ago and look where we are and where we're headed. I've lived in a communist country before and we're getting closer with every election cycle.
Sorry if my initial post here was bit too cold. Even I recognize this was a tragic event & that many of you feel bad.
Aside from the gun control debate, there's another aspect about this incident that is bothersome. Much of the reaction is along the lines of "how could somebody do this to children?" and although it's certainly awful there are, as unbelievable as this sounds, worse crimes perpetuated against children nearly everyday and possibly in your own community and by your own community leaders.
The Frnklin scandal/cover-up is an excellent case study. Here's a link to a basic intro & overview. It might sound like nutty talk but it is worth dealing with the very uncomfortable truths behind these suppressed news stories. Even just a few year ago, if someone had tried to convince me that the world is run by pedophile satanists who get off on torturing (& killing) children while fucking them (because, like, an orgasm is always better when you com just as someone is dying???), I would've thought that to be totally crazy but if you start looking at the evidence objectively...
It is unfortunate that people died in Connecticut yesterday but guns themselves are not the problem. As some have suggested, better mental health care might prevent these crazy people from losing control. But as long as elites are squeezing the lower & middle classes, even sane people will lose their minds and commit tragic acts. In a deleveraging, contracting economy, everybody will be pushed to their limits. The saddest (sadist?) part is that these loose cannons & broken souls direct their rage at innocent targets. The whole country mourns the loss of school kids but would there be similar outrage if someone opened fire on Go£dman $achs, the CIA or even Congress? People are upset but they need to start clearing their heads, look past the propaganda and understand where the oppression & sickness is coming from and, only then, after identifying the enemies, can progress be made in improving life for all.
To be the dragon, you've got to beat the dragon. And even if you don't want to be the dragon, you've still got to beat the dragon.
Yo.
"I mean, privately owned nuclear and biological weapons are totally banned and know one thinks that's unconstitutional, right?"
That is probably an issue of scale, at least to some extent. It's not really practical for an individual to have nuclear or biological weapons. But along the same lines, the elite are perfectly comfortable having their own nukes but they are relentless in denying them to outsiders such as Iran. In the same way that one could argue that everybody should have a gun (or all households such as Swizerland), one could also argue that all states should have some nukes. It would help to ensure national sovereignty. Of course, being anarchistic, I'd probably argue that there shouldn't even be a state beyond the regional level but that's another discussion.
Yo.
Its is interesting to see the country hold candlelight vigils and "reflect" on what has happened, but nothing is going to change. Why can there not be a simple mandate, like exists in most countries against gun ownership? Why do we need to hold on to a vestige of our constitution that was formed when we were occupied by the British? If so, lets bring back slavery as well.
There will also be a whole discussion on what kinds of guns should be allowed and where they should be allowed - this will again lead nowhere. Even the smallest Saturday Night Special has the ability to inflict extreme violence with a power that should not be in the hands of civilians.
It is hard for me to comprehend how more guns can secure us form tragedies like this.
So, everyone should be able to defend themselves? Are we back in Wild West? I often hear that they feel safer by having guns. This theory is an absolute myth and I know many disagree with me, but most of them have ever experienced how it is when someone is pointing gun at you.
With exception of professional soldiers or policemen who are trained to defend themselves, chances of average citizen being able to use their gun and come out alive from conflict is close to zero. Many who has experienced being in such situation confirm that they did not had a chance to use their gun or knife, because you are not really mentally prepared for it in peaceful times. Many times you are alive because you did not really have any weapon on you.
Fact that insane person had access to weapon like this is a crime itself.
Tragedies will happen with guns or without, but society is responsible in preventing them as much as they can
This is a sad day and will be ingrained in American psyche. However guns are not the problem. Americans had guns since the beginning of their history, while school shootings have become a pretty recent phenomena. Something is totally wrong with people these days. If you start banning guns, might as well ban kitchen knifes, forks, etc. Crazies are the problem.
this guy killed 27 ppl in minutes....without a gun he would have killed a lot less.
This is how we defend ourselves in Canada http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah2tjnbOaEk
here we don't need guns to defend ourselves! Its more fair game without one!
This was the other news in Connecticut this week: "The Department of Mental Health has received a 7.7 million dollar cut affecting many mental health organizations." This along with the Department of Social Services took a really big hit this past week. So those who are at the mercy of society are getting a raw deal, cause some people doesn't want to raise taxes. Or figure out a way to make the administrative aspect of government work a more productive level, and not create hardships for the people they serve.
Guns now that is a whole other issue. If people want to have guns then they should be damn well aware that there guns can kill people and their guns should be secured along with ammunition. It keeps going thru my mind about the mother of the young man who took the lives of so many. If he was known to have mental issues, how could she not know that it was in the best interest of society to secure her weapons. It may come out that her weapons were secure....but I beg to differ.. they should have been more secure. This is what the NRA should be preaching as in ,"The Scream."
Mother Earth Jones did an article about mass murders and it does reveal data that set me down in my seat.
I grew up with guns, they were in mounted above the seat of most every pick up in town. People didn't even think to lock their trucks when they went into the bank or to the grocery store. Yet today it is different, I can't put my finger on it but it is and it isn't good.
I'm not far from Newtown. I wondered if I would know any of the families with losses. I turns out I do. Not a close friend or really a friend but a Jazz Musician I have heard play. My heart goes out to him and his family and to all the other families.
On another hand. I saw the brave stand tall last night. I went to a ballet, here in Connecticut where the performers were children between the ages of 6 and 18. They put on a performance which I will always hold close to my heart. No Fear just beauty!
apparently the police received a call about this incident at 9:36 from the school, and again at 9:38 that it was over
this incident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah2tjnbOaEk happened in 1min 30 sec. nobody died, nor did the robber get away with it because the owner had a fair chance at self defence. All that happened was that the robber got severely embarrassed. And will most likely get a harder time from his colleagues in prison about getting spanked.
Yeah mental health is central to the Sandy Hook story and definitely needs to be seriously looked into- but so is the fact that this guy had easy access to guns. The guns issue cannot be ignored
Its our self important culture and the sensational media thats to blame. Guns have been around for a long time crazies have been around even longer. The only thing that has changed is our culture. There is no simple solution to this problem. Criminals don't obey the law. Making guns illegal will be as effective as making drugs illegal. It is far too easy for these crazy pieces of shit to go unnoticed . In the old days when everyone knew their neighbors someone would have likely noticed this sociopath peice of garbage and they would be locked up in the nut house where they belong. Best solution is to fund more mental health programs to make sure these animals are medicated or locked away before they can do any harm. This shit makes me sick....I feel so bad for these families...I can't watch the news it's just too sad... Our society needs to do some serious thinking and stop looking for easy answers.
You want a hunting rifle? Sure, go register it. You really need a hand gun becasue your neighborhood is "changing"? All right, go register it. By the way, if you want either one, we're going to make sure you're not a criminal or a nut. We don't give drunks drivers liscences so it's the least we can do when you get to wield that kind of power.
You want a military assault rifle or a military semi-automatic pistol with 20 bullet clips? No.
When they gave us the right to bear arms, it was plausible to arm the citizenry with one shot muskets and give the authorities a run for their money. Nowadays, no amount of weaponry will stop the American army, so who are you kidding? These weapons where designed for carnage, not for self defense. Is there a corollary between places with strict gun control and homocides? What's the data on who dies when guns are around, criminals or family members? Is it self defense or taking a fight to another level?
This isn't looking for an easy answer, this is looking at the data and doing what's best for our society, while still being true to our culture. This is something many of us have long thought when looking at the facts before the Gun Lobby starts painting a picture of your tyrannical government wanting to take your gun away. How much business does a good 2nd ammendment scare gin up for gun manufacturers?
Let's do a better job of helping those suffering from mental illness, but let's not kid ourselves that we can't do something to bring a little more safety to our people. Didn't all the smart sheriffs of those western movies tell cowboys give up thier guns when they came to town?
The NRA just called for Congress to fund armed security guards in all public schools. Then he - Wayne LaPierre - went on to blame violent movies for our culture of violence. His examples of violent media? American Psycho and Natural Born Killers.
Do we need any more evidence that the NRA is totally out of touch? Quoting 18 year old movies as the cause, when the gun that was used at Sandy Hook was advertised a week ago with the catchphrase "Consider Your Man Card Reissued?" Fuck you.
As a parent I am sickened that this happened. I feel that the media and gov't are looking for something simple to blame rather than addressing the real deeper problem. That problem is the degradation of moralality, the violent culture, the lack of community, the lack of mental healthcare, our self important culture, and yes the media. The US has problems that cannot be solved or even curbed with a law ...We need to change the way we think as a society. This starts at the top. The gov't promotes wars, kills, tourtures.....What kind of example is that. And then these maniacs step in and try to offer solutions to stop other maniacs. Our entire society is rotting from the top down.
What about the fact that millions of kids are completely unsupervised because both parents are working 40+ hours a week to survive. What about the fact that our materialistic culture is being absorbed by the young who isolate students that don't fit the mold? What about the fact that psychopaths and sociopaths are sitting home playing games like black ops for 8 hours a day? What about the fact the parents are affraid to spank their kids, but then go and pump them full of perscription drugs? Guns should requrie a background check, mental health check, and even a training course, but to ban guns when there are already 300 million out there will just create another criminal enteprise as alcohol prohibition and the war on drugs did.
Also, this is moslty a white suburban problem. I think it has to do with the isolation it allows for and the selfish culture of midlle-upper middle class suburbia.
jla-x I agree with pretty much everything you posted, in general. But if 300 million guns are already out there, do we need to not bother trying to let that number get to 301? Or 400 or 500 million?
It's a complex problem, and will take complex solutions. Nothing can be off the table.
Obviously that should read: "do we need to not bother trying NOT to let that number get to 301? Or 400 or 500 million?"
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