Controversy has erupted over the memorial to President Dwight Eisenhower proposed by Frank Gehry for a site next to the Mall. The memorial’s large size and unconventional emphasis on Eisenhower as a “barefoot boy from Kansas” drew objections from the Eisenhower family, which in December called for it to be redesigned. A mounting public debate has since coalesced around familiar cultural positions. — Washington Post
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Serves them right for picking Gehry to design a memorial. He's all style over substance
Actually, Driehaus is all about style over substance.
Actually not.
Of course he is. He funds an annual prize for architects who design in his preferred style.
The Dreihaus prize is not restricted to a "preferred style" any more than the Pritzker is.
Driehaus = promoter of ignorance and nostalgia
now that is lack of style AND substance
What an open-minded point of view!
:)
Thanks, we all know that studying history and promoting the imitation/conservative interpretation of it are two very different things.
Can someone tell me "Why?" is there going to be a memorial to President Eisenhower? What were his achievements during his presidency?
EKE, don't try to be coy about it. You're not correct.
From the Driehaus award page, for the award called the Richard H. Driehaus Award at the University of Notre Dame, says this:
Classical architecture and traditional urbanism represent a culture’s highest aspirations. Timeless ideals that have endured for centuries have become even more essential as a means of preserving our cultural heritage, protecting not only economic and environmental resources, but the sense of continuity and identity that sustains communities. Classical architecture is sustainable by definition, and traditional urban design facilitates the ways people live, work, and worship together. ...Richard H. Driehaus, the Chicago philanthropist...established the $200,000 Richard H. Driehaus Prize at the University of Notre Dame to honor a living architect whose work embodies those principles in contemporary society. The Driehaus Prize has been presented annually since 2003 to architects representing various classical traditions...
And the criteria for nomination include:
* Should be an architect with a distinguished career
* Should be accomplished in the disciplines of Traditional or Classical Architecture and/or Urban Design
I honestly don't have a problem with someone establishing an award for this area of work. But let's be honest and accept that Morphosis is highly unlikely to ever win a Driehaus, just as it's highly unlikely that Leon Krier will ever win a Pritzker.
I'm not being coy. I absolutely agree with you.
You said, "Morphosis is highly unlikely to ever win a Driehaus, just as it's highly unlikely that Leon Krier will ever win a Pritzker."
That's exactly what I said:
"The Dreihaus prize is not restricted to a "preferred style" any more than the Pritzker is."
Fine, then we agree. I just thought your first statement sounded disingenuous, as the Driehaus page *does* say one must be accomplished in the discipline of traditional or Classical design.
classical has a broad range, does it not? asplund was a classicist, so was saarienen the elder, garnier, loos, behrens, venturi, graves, mies, chipperfield - even kahn and aalto at times.
there's a difference between being a classicist / traditionalist and practicing in a traditional / classicist language (or style). the former (at least for me) is about the organization of space, the latter about the articulation of building elements.
now, would the driehaus ever be awarded to someone who's language isn't rooted in a more classical tradition (chipperfield at times being the really interesting test case)? i seriously doubt it since too many in that camp see the language and spatial articulations as inseparable. could i see krier winning the pritzker (if he had more built work) before mayne wins the driehaus? absolutely.
all of that's secondary to the call for a new memorial, but since we're digressing...
Donna-
But our friend davvid said "preferred style". The past winners of the Dreihaus have designed in many different styles. The same is true of the past winners of the Pritzker.
I think that the Driehaus committee is actually much more honest, because they explicitly say that they are only interested in work from a certain "realm". The same is true of the Pritzker, but they don't admit it.
"now, would the driehaus ever be awarded to someone who's language isn't rooted in a more classical tradition..."
BTW - Michael Graves was the last recipient of the Dreihaus Prize. He's an apostate modernist if there ever was one. :)
i think graves' award (and stern's) were given because they can't find many other potential notable recipients for their award!
for the most part, there are very few people doing things that look 'classical' who have bothered to learn enough about it in order to be honestly credited with continuing the traditions. at least graves and stern have both learned enough to be able to riff with skill.
driehaus is going to have a tougher time moving forward, i'm afraid.
his proposal in this article sounds reasonable - he's good at drafting reasonable-sounding diplomatic language. his (probably feather quill fountain) pen glosses over the fact that he's proposing the reversal of a series of legitimate legal processes that resulted in commitments and significant cost. not that he doesn't mention them: he just intentionally underestimates their importance.
while he's right that the project isn't 'in stone', that things could be changed, an awful lot of consensus will have to be built to overturn years of good faith contracts, *approvals*, and expenditure. expect more lawsuits. [the lawyers always win, don't they?]
What exactly is Pritzker not admitting?
To honor a living architect whose built work demonstrates a combination of those qualities of talent, vision, and commitment, which has produced consistent and significant contributions to humanity and the built environment through the art of architecture.
In my opinion, ANY Classical-appearing work being built today is retro and is no longer capable of contributing anything new to humanity and the built environment. There is simply no need for buildings to look like Greek temples any longer if one is interested in continuing the experiment of the civilization in which we live. Classically-based work that does not look overtly Classical could be interesting, because things like proportion, scale, approach, balance, harmony, etc. are all valid design criteria regardless of style. I think if one applies broad Classical ideas to lots of contemporary work one will find plenty of projects worthy of awards and not a single Ionic column among them.
Steven- I don't agree with you at all that Graves' selection was indicative of a paucity of worthy recipients. There are many, many great architects worldwide doing extraordinary work inspired by great traditions. Hearing your comments, I'm reminded of the story of the Manhattan socialite who was dumbfounded by the election of President Bush in 2000. She simply couldn't believe that the election results could be correct. "The election must have been rigged. I don't know a single person who voted for Bush." :) Donna- I know that's what you believe. The Pritzker committee agrees with you.
Down with Driehaus and conservatism in architecture. Let them keep giving each other awards and sketch about Corb, Even their criticisms are outdated.
:)
I'm certain Driehaus will not honor traditions 'worldwide', if by that you mean the diversity of traditions the Aga Khan recognizes. (I'd love to be proven wrong.) Western European traditions can result in good buildings, sometimes beautiful buildings, but it's less common that one of them is especially noteworthy. There are *some* - and, when done right, they can be sublime. If they can find and reward work which can be said to legitimately continue and build on traditions - more power to 'em. I'm sorry Mr Driehaus is getting into the business of negative advocacy, but .... It's his right.
I remember none other than Graves saying (in a lecture here in town) that architects should never publically condemn the work of another architect before the project was complete and could be judged on its merits *as realized*. For what it's worth.
The day that the award is given to Leon Krier, I will withdraw my assertion that the Pritzker Prize is in the business of negative advocacy. :)
But Krier isn't an architect, he is a reactionist.
if he wasn't so stiff in his thinking then he wouldn't have to rely on Mr. Driehaus to nurture his backward delusions.
Also.... the Pritzker is something of a midpoint in the world of progressive architecture. They play things safe. So unfortunately classicism will always have to take a back seat.
Credible minds know what direction to travel in.
I guess you are one of those credible minds, huh?
yup, I'm not ashamed, no need to dally in the past
Seriously, EKE - there are better architects than Krier to use as proof of Pritzer's positive value. Krier is a total dilettante. As is his brother, whom I have met, and who is truly Roarkian in his ego.
I still think Duany offers compelling ideas, if one isn't bound to only produce those ideas through traditional images.
Krier is far from a dilettante, Donna. He's been responsible more quality urban planning than all of the Pritzker awardees combined. He's written several absolutely fascinating books on urban theory. You may not agree with his point of view, but he is quite accomplished. Spend a few minutes reading "The Architecture of Community" and then tell me that it is the work of a dilettante.
Andres is a brilliant fellow, and a true warrior. I admire him greatly. As you may know, he and Liz Plater-Zyberk were the first recipients of the Dreihaus prize.
yeah go on read it Donna, his books will leave you feeling all gooey inside from the sentimental ignorance spews.
Down with Duany and Driehaus!
That's a pretty nuanced response. I'm done.
EKE don't leave yet - you've been spectacularly patient on this thread, and I am impressed. That said: what do you like about Classical architecture, or think is appropriate about its use in the 21st Century? How is Krier's work *not* empty form-making relying on a nostalgic imagined past? I studied in Vienna at the architecture school where Rob worked (works?) and while Eurpoean historic cities seem more suited for the Krier approach, European architects are also producing the boldest, most interesting new work currently, and it has great urbanistic characteristics. Why do we need to be afraid of new forms?
Look at this guy, the epitome of conservatism all over Its repulsing
These discussions can be so counter-productive, lets just outlaw them.
geesh - it's a monument to a f-ing dead president - monuments are as old as architecture. it doesn't matter what you dress it up as - make it a f-ing obelisk with eisenhower's face on it. who gives a shit.
personally, I think it should look like this:
resemblance to eisenhower is striking.
hah!
agree with steven there are pretty slim pickings for truly progressive architects who can claim to be carrying on classical architecture towards something new (or even new-ish).
isn't the pritzker about having a built history and theoretical influence long and large enough to say that some kind of turning point can be seen in the work? the latest winner maybe doesn't fit that criteria but the rest certainly do.
the kriers are both too isolationist to meet both criteria, although their writings are indeed interesting. it is a pity they do not build more so we could judge better what is gained by looking to the past to build the present. what they have built feels more akin to las vegas or disney than a real contribution to the modern world. i think they both have had a hard time dealing with the demands of the modern world. even poundbury is demonstrably problematic (ie, measurably more car use than other developer driven stock, etc).
it is good they are out there. not sure why there is some urge to dump on gehry though. seems a bit petty to be honest. if they were in a competition i guess neither krier would have won, so what's the problem? when it gets personal it feels like sour grapes more than legitimate concern over the state of the design world...
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