Workers have almost completed mounting the copper paneling on the American Copper Buildings (née 626 First Avenue), the new tilting, two-towered development on Manhattan’s East Side, but their most striking feature—a three-story, 100-foot-long skybridge—is still open to the elements. [...]
The skybridge itself, though, is designed to be the showstopper. The architects placed a 75-foot lap pool on the bridge, so residents can swim 300 feet in the air [...].
— bloomberg.com
↑ Interior rendering of the skybridge pool area on the 29th floor.
↑ Exterior rendering of the SHoP-designed towers with the skybridge spanning the 27th to 29th floors. (Image: JDS Development; via bloomberg.com)
↑ JDS Developers hope to have the towers completed in 2017.
Images via the developer's website and bloomberg.com.
Related stories in the Archinect news:
107 Comments
The biggest problem I have with this is that it seems such an extravagant waste of money, time and, effort for something that only a few people would enjoy.
It does not exactly look crowded out there in those pictures.
SneakyPete,
If I was the architect, and someone fell out of the pool, who are they going to sue? The Donald Trumps of the world or me? They won't sue the Trumps of the world but they would sue me.
All they need is a so called 'expert witness' (another architect) who has a higher standard of care.
You're starting to sound like a minimalist drafter/designer who just designs to the minimum of the building codes.
Take a second to take a chill pill. I'll take it that SHoP or whoever the architects of the different buildings presented had develop a solution to mitigate risks of someone just accidentally falling off the building to their death from the sky high pool. Okay.
What about this horizontal cable rails?
Balkins must swim like a dolphin because I've never fallen out of a pool. Seems very difficult to fall out of a pool even if one were to swim full speed into the wall. It actually takes a bit of effort to lift one self out of a pool. Its kinda common sense.
Your imagination must have been running through senarios in loony toon mode.
Go take your Riddilin and then rethink it.
Can you launch yourself into the air like Flipper Rick? Are you a merman?
"You're starting to sound like a minimalist drafter/designer who just designs to the minimum of the building codes."
You mean I sound like someone who starts at the minimum and then builds on that in order to come to a balance between the needs of the public, the needs of the project, and the needs of the client?
I'll take that as a compliment.
Balkins must swim like a dolphin because I've never fallen out of a pool. Seems very difficult to fall out of a pool even if one were to swim full speed into the wall. It actually takes a bit of effort to lift one self out of a pool. Its kinda common sense.
jla-x,
You realize that most pools, the water level is below the walk area around it. The rendering pictures the water level up to the rim.
Lets look at this image:
You see the girl on that white 'float'. It's kind of like being on a air mattress in a pool. Now, if the water level is up to the rim and basically going over into the trough and there is some kind of water circulation, I think it be kind of easy to go over the edge. Better hope there is something to catch you and guard rail of sorts to keep you from rolling right off and falling your death. You'd better hope there is.
If there wasn't, that girl in blue swimsuit would be dead a few hundred feet below.
When looking at that photo, there is nothing to confirm there is some method of protecting someone from falling to their demise. It can be just the angle of the rendering. You don't get that from the rendering itself. The extended wall projection doesn't necessarily mean squat. However, someone provided further information.
While standing with your feet to the floor of the pool, there isn't a problem.
That is what I am getting at.
In the U.S., ordinary people has a license to be stupid. Those of us in roles of responsibility has to think ahead of stupid. If someone does something stupid, we are liable to them. We get sued. They get a bunch of money for their medical because they were stupid. Our insurance goes through the roof. In our legal environment, we have to plan for the most stupidest, irresponsible assholes in the universe. The end user is never responsible. They are legally considered "lawfully permitted to be irresponsible" because they are not in a position or role of responsible charge. We have to plan for just about any nonsense stupid actions imaginable.
We are expected to plan for people like this when we are designing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-w-mWhIWEM
You mean I sound like someone who starts at the minimum and then builds on that in order to come to a balance between the needs of the public, the needs of the project, and the needs of the client?
I'll take that as a compliment.
As the DESIGN PROFESSIONAL. You are legally required by standard of responsible care to plan for people like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-w-mWhIWEM
If you have to watch it a few times. Any one of these morons finds a way relocate their patella into the cranial cavity, we get sued through the nose for it.
Watch it a few times.
Just in case, here's the link AGAIN:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-w-mWhIWEM
Bookmark it if you must.
When looking at that photo, there is nothing to confirm there is some method of protecting someone from falling to their demise.
Yeah I mean it's almost like they had some 24 year old intern slap it together in Photoshop with no intention of ever using it as a life safety submittal.
Ok. tduds
Not to mention that's a section of pool structure poking up through the surface, not a "float".
And your view on codes is possibly why you project your lack of design chops onto others, making up random safety stories for buildings based on stupid fucking people doing stupid fucking things and thus you find yourself unable to design anything not made of soft materials 3 inches off of the fucking ground.
rick, can't you just walk away without demonstrating how much you don't know?
Rick, the water does not have to be below the walk area around it. It's called a zero edge...its done all the time.
jla-x,
What part of hydrodynamics did you fail? How is the zero edge going to stop that floating air mattress or whatever that white wedge is that has maybe...... MAYBE an 1/2" draft. With the person on it, it might be only 1" draft. The person is now on a wedge that is probably 4-6" above the water and the person is on that.
Here's a zero-edge pool:
What would you think happen if the person went over the edge. Fall in the pool below? Okay... might not be a problem. Now, imagine if this was 300-ft. up and instead of a pool below, you have a concrete slab?
You would be pretty well.... dead.
For the one pool that wurdan had photos of:
Here, found more photos:
While that's okay with this detail.
If there is a wall ledge or something like the above image, you have some protection. However, if the detail was like the previous picture with the yellow house but much higher... you have a problem.
That's a section of pool structure poking up through the surface, not a "float".
its amazing how many people at the beginning of this thread thought: 'i can't imagine how you would solve this issue, therefore they must be breaking code!' rather than actually engaging their brain and thinking that perhaps the architects designing these pools may just have more experience than some random expert on the internet.
or perhaps wondering where the water goes, or where the maintenance access is, or that some professional might take all of this into account and still be able to design a pool with the appearance of an infinity edge.
Mouse, concise and to the point. Thank you.
SnaeakyPete,
Okay. All I have to go on is the pictures. If you are calling the architects at SHoP... okay. Sorry but I am not calling their office to find out. Many architects don't appreciate random phone calls. They just want phone calls from their clients and consultants.
If you work for SHoP, then great. If so, you could have said so from the beginning.
Rick the "yellow house" picture you posted above isn't a house - it's part of an office complex in India - here's another view: http://www.rainbowskill.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/image0052.jpg The water in the upper "pool" is actually only an inch or so deep at the edge, and while it is possible to walk there, that part is a reflecting pool surrounding some little fenced "land islands" with seating on them, not a swimming pool. It also has a big gutter around the edge that would likely catch someone who somehow manages to fall over the edge. Still I doubt that particular example would fly in the US, unless the upper pool were a completely inaccessible fountain.
The rest of this thread seems to have become about your discomfort with various conceptual renderings of things that, in their final iterations, are reasonably safe (all pools have some associated risks) and completely code compliant. Surely you understand that SHoP's early renderings were to illustrate general concepts, and not submitted for permits nor intended as construction drawings. There are edgeless pools all over the world. I've never heard of someone being swept out of one on a pool float - have you?
Lmfao. A pool float could not possibly go over a negative edge...there is maybe a 1/4" of water spilling over the edge...
Ricks air filled fucking head must float.
Thanks for correcting me. It kind of resembled some of those mansion houses that I have seen. I was just trying to describe the building without seeing the whole building.
Lets agree to mutually stop the circular argument. Okay.
Edge-less pools basically are pools where the water overruns the edge, right?
Put a slightly taller cup in a cup slightly shorter that is only slightly wider. Find a small piece of styrofoam (it'll work as a floating object). Fill the taller cup with water up to just below the rim, put the foam in and continue filling. What happens?
jla-x,
The 1/4" draft is in static calm / no current. With current, you might not even need that. However, the float can tip over if the person moves. If they move or try to step onto the edge, they can easily slip, tumble and fall over. One may argue that the person is being dumb. But we are liable for their dumb actions as we are suppose to already thought about people being stupid and mitigate those risks.
Now get on the piece of styrofoam and try that experiment again.
Sponty, answer the question.
You know I'd probably crush the cups because of shear mass and scale difference. I was giving you a classic scale down simulation example of my point.
the float on the water would not likely float over the edge on it's own unless there was a lot of water flowing over the edge. now if someone gave it a push, it would probably get pushed over. they don't actually levitate over the water, which you may have noticed during your studies in hydrodynamics.
if there was weight on the float, such as a person, it would be more difficult to push the float over the edge. i would agree that if you measured from the bottom of the person sitting on the float, the guard rail would not be at a reasonable height, compared to measuring from the pool bottom. i would also agree that if a person was pushed over the edge or jumped over the edge it would be problematic for the health and welfare of that person.
This experiment doesn't work scaled down. That was my point. First of all, I just conducted your experiment in my kitchen sink, and the piece of styrofoam just bumped around the edge of the taller cup but didn't go over the edge until I blasted it directly with the sprayer. This would be like blasting a person a pool on a pool float with a fire hose. Secondly, the surface tension in a cup is stronger than in a pool because of the small circumference of the former, and the little piece of styrofoam is small enough to be "grabbed" by that surface tension. A person on a pool float doesn't interact the same way with the surface of the water. On the other hand the person on the pool float displaces enough water that the bottom of the float is not as close to the surface, and so it will be grabbed by the edge.
Rick these pools have been popular for 20+ years now and I have yet to hear of any incidents. I've swam in a few of these and there is no sense of imminent danger. If you can actually find some example of anyone falling or being swept out of one, then post it. Otherwise I think you're going a little overboard yourself with your condemnation of those who design these pools. You seem to have a phobia, so you probably shouldn't swim in any edgeless pools on tops of tall buildings - but that doesn't mean the pool isn't safe for others.
ricki the bot i am dumber for reading this statement by you "Okay. All I have to go on is the pictures. If you are calling the architects at SHoP... okay. Sorry but I am not calling their office to find out. Many architects don't appreciate random phone calls. They just want phone calls from their clients and consultants."........seriously you took time to write that.
Sponty,
It is likely the float would tip over with weight shifting. There is just a chance that the person can find themselves over the edge.
curtkram,
Did you watch the video link I posted earlier?
Just in case, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-w-mWhIWEM
Do you realize that we get sued because people are morons and injure themselves on our buildings? Just to illustrate the point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuNNC4ZXv0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSYIm8nzjp8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPLftOse2c
In that last video - just imagine if there wasn't a deck or something below on the other side? And imagine if this was 300-ft. above the ground?
"I really like that new building that Rem Koolhaas and Michael Stipe designed." "The Rem Koolhaas R.E.M. Coolhouse?"
Rick, none of those videos show someone falling over the edge of the pool in singapore. The last one was a guy climbing over the edge of a pool. If he didn't want to climb over the edge of the pool, he would have chosen to not climb over the edge of the pool. I can't help but think there is something the rest of the world knows that you're just not picking up on
Rick, you're about 3-4 generations too late to be an architect.
your absurd denial that other architects have done something well is so old school architect man....
"Do you realize that we get sued because people are morons and injure themselves on our buildings?"
So don't build anything. Oh, wait.
I think Ricky is on to something here. Look I found this video of a woman falling when she was trying to climb over a guardrail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F9t0Xz_UEs. Guardrails are dangerous. I think we should make guardrails for our guardrails to prevent this kind of stupidity.
If only there was a pool or fountain or something in Oregon that Ricky could visit and see that known risks and people's fear of falling and injuring themselves is enough of a deterrent to prevent them from falling from unprotected edges ... oh wait, there is, but it's in Portland and you know the gangs might kill Ricky if he leaves Astoria.
Rick, none of those videos show someone falling over the edge of the pool in singapore. The last one was a guy climbing over the edge of a pool. If he didn't want to climb over the edge of the pool, he would have chosen to not climb over the edge of the pool. I can't help but think there is something the rest of the world knows that you're just not picking up on
It doesn't take a stretch of imagination since both pools have similar edge design much like the photo at the original post. The main difference is physical elevation above grade. Obviously, there was a trough that successfully caught the person so they wouldn't fall further and possibly more serious injuries as its probably an edgeless pool with a steep slope below. It doesn't take much of a leap of imagination that people will attempt to do stupid shit even up on a skyscraper. We'd end up getting sued for it and paying through the nose in insurance premiums. Seriously, think about it.
just imagine if there wasn't a deck or something below on the other side?
But there is a deck or something below on the other side... why would I imagine such an obvious design failure when I can spend less time designing a successful solution?
I'm not a Certified Building Imaginer.
@LiMX Nailed it with the first comment. Well done sir.
So... you're saying all of these pools are dangerous because it's possible to imagine a pool that doesn't have a recessed pool deck or trough or something to catch somebody. Isn't that the same thing as saying it's irresponsible to design stairs because it's possible to imagine a staircase that ends in mid-air with no landing, made out of graham crackers, over a tank of piranhas, with 13 inch risers, radioactive paint, and no Braille signs?
Imagine if they filled the pool with gasoline. What a fire hazard!
--tduds, Certified PBI. AIBI--
anything you build can be misconstrued by morons, ergo, don't build. Sounds like a RickBalkins excuse for everything!
Whenever I need entertainment, I just visit a thread stalked by one of the more... persistent of the Archinecters.
You lot are funny. Let us be honest, most of us would love to work on this project, let alone experiencing it. Then why this hate?
Oh god Stewart. Or was it Stuart? I miss him. Nice one, citizen.
This thread is comedy gold.
LOL. Only Rick would imagine that people could simply float off the edge of a skyscraper. Just trying to imagine what's going on in his head...people flying to their death on alligator pool floats.
jla-x,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-w-mWhIWEM
It's amazing how people can creatively find new ways to hurt or kill themselves.
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Now to trigger moving to page 3.
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One more time.... (how many posts per page is this forum set at?
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