Dressed in reflective yellow construction gear while working under the cover of darkness early Monday, a small group of artists installed a tribute to NSA-leaker Edward Snowden in a Brooklyn park.
But it was gone by midday.
The Snowden bust stood atop a column at the Prison Ship Martyrs Monument in Fort Greene Park, a site built to honor more than 11,000 American prisoners of war who died aboard British ships during the American Revolutionary War.
— mashable.com
26 Comments
Would prefer a full statue with a laptop under the arm, while looking over shoulder.
Really enjoyed the John Oliver interview with Snowden, really put things in terms that the layperson can understand, and layed clear just how clueless the average American is...
Clueless? I'm not so sure about that, if our journalists actually did their job, the real work of journalism, perhaps they could keep the story in the news longer than it takes for a Kardashian to release a sex tape. No one had ever really explained why this is important, how we got to here, and whether or not this is the kind of country we want to live in, and our own collective responsibility for getting here.
Of course our media does it's best to obfuscate the truth when they are told to, there was a great example in that John Oliver segment in which he plainly demonstrates that. It was a clip of an interview on one of the NBC news programs in which they are speaking to a member of congress regarding necessary revisions to the patriot act. Just when the congresswoman is getting to explaining why it's imperative we make changes to teh Patriot act before it gets renewed, yet again, they interrupt her with Breaking News about Justin Bieber... Seriously, it's become the citizen's duty to inform themselves, because our news media are no longer doing it for us. The problem then becomes who do you believe? ...If you have 30 minutes or so you should watch the Patriot Act/Snowden segment from last weekend - LINKY
Yeah, I watched the John Oliver piece, and what it did do, for me at least, was demonstrate the complexity of this "hero" narrative around Snowden; one I've never ascribed to. He's neither hero nor villain, he's just as irresponsible as anyone else, myself included. I still believe Chelsea Manning is more worthy of praise than Snowden.
i think part of the snowden thing is that he believed in spreading his message so much that he was exiled from his country. which also means he was exiled from his family and the people and places he cared about. he's not really 'just as irresponsible' as the rest of us, he's the guy that sacrificed a lot to try to get people talking about what role they want this security to play in their lives. what makes him a hero isn't just what he said, it's what he sacrificed.
So, up until he decided to take off to that land of "freedom", he was doing what for the NSA?
perhaps he was searching for his conscience?
a hero is just an ordinary person in an extraordinary situation, right? i don't think anyone is saying he was a hero before he took off.
that land of "freedom"
think about it. 'that' land of "freedom" doesn't spy on their citizens to the extent snowden's previous land does. the inappropriateness of the suggestion that 'freedom' is lacking in russia but available in america (assuming that's why you put it in quotes) might start to make sense if you were listening. if you want america to be more free than russia, then maybe you'll start to understand why people would see snowden as a hero.
Really? That land of the free just murdered the opposition. Give me a break.
My idea of hero is not someone that gets paid to spy, big back I might add, than finally grasps the questionable morality about what he's doing, and our government is doing because of Bush, then decides to boot, without suffering the consequences. Ellsberg paid the piper. Chelsea Manning paid the piper, they're hero's in my book.
i don't think snowden is getting paid to spy anymore.
is jail over expatriation a requirement of being a hero? fine if it is, just seems like an odd requirement. i don't think it's fair to say snowden has not suffered any consequence for his decisions.
Qualities
Spies are the most pathetic version of humanity. I know what you are thinking because I talk to you. Whether you respond or not I know what you are thinking and I am a descent enough to let you know I am trying learn something about you. Snowden under no circumstance is a hero, at best a confused kid.
Update: Hologram replaces Edward Snowden statue in Brooklyn park
Moving beyond the physical.
I agree with curtkram. He stepped up and blew the whistle...that takes balls...
may not be a "hero" but he did what many others did not. He went against his own best interest to inform us of what he believed (and what was imo) a violation of our liberty.
/\ as every human being should.
national security is contracting out national security, did I get that right? no duty, no honor, just business....I understand that works great in war, you have some black-ops accidently kill some innocent people and then the government writes-off the incident and prosecutes the people they hired to do the job anyway while working some magic in the courts with some severance pay, etc.......
"He went against his own best interest to inform us of what he believed (and what was imo) a violation of our liberty" - jla-x
And still IS a violation of our liberty. That is the saddest thing about Snowden's actions that John Oliver exposed in the interview. Snowden trusted the "media" to do something productive with the vast amount of information he leaked to them. The "media" really hasn't done jack with it, as Mr_Wiggin pointed out above. Probably because the media holds water for Republican (Bush started this) and Democrat (Obama continued / strengthened it) alike. Then what little Americans did hear about NSA spying is ignored in favor of simpler, dumber Bieberian concepts. So Snowden's actions really amounted to nothing being changed. I don't know how effective you have to be to be considered a hero, or maybe it doesn't matter. Effective or not, I wouldn't call Snowden irresponsible. He was one of the only ones at the NSA to say anything in the face of massive unconstitutional acts, and he is paying the price. Yes, he worked for and took money from the NSA, but he saw something was wrong and tried acting on it. That's way better than being just a confused kid to me.
we're having the discussion. that's what snowden did. he said, 'hey, let's talk about this. is this what we want?' he didn't fix the problem, rather he sacrificed his liberty to bring to light the extent of the problem, so the rest of us could decide if it's the government we want. in the end, it's our government, we elect the leadership.
what john oliver did, was reframe the conversation in terms most americans can understand (ie., penises)
It is good that we are having the discussion, but I have a sinking feeling that nothing will change. The issue won't be discussed in any substantial way by the media or in a presidential debate, and even if it is touched on it won't matter because nothing would change. Or the names would change but the surveillance state would not. And opaqueness and obfuscation will remain standard. I am grateful to Snowden for exposing the issue so at least we have a chance to discuss it though.
All the cynicism about the process aside, I thought the bit about dick pics was pretty brilliant.
It's a bit naive to imagine that Snowden didn't know what he was getting into. He really just pointed out what most of kind of knew and then bailed to save his skin. Had he stayed and been arrested and stood trial maybe some hero qualities would have evolved and maybe we would still be talking about it.....
rand paul made it a preeminent part of his platform didn't he? not that it means much. that guy is a real nut job.
i think you're right that things won't change much. it's possible that 'we,' as a nation, really just don't give a shit. there are a lot of people who really believe ted cruz is a reasonable person to have leading our country. there are a lot of people who think that guy in florida who shot trayvon martin did the right thing. there are a lot of people who don't think evolution should be taught in schools. there are a lot of people who sincerely believe president obama is a closet muslim born in kenya.
wish i had more solutions instead of just frustration, but i don't, so there you go.
The Ethical Snowden
"When I started at the State Department, I took an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States. I don’t believe that there is any valid interpretation of the Fourth Amendment that could permit the government to collect and store a large portion of U.S. citizens’ online communications, without any court or congressional oversight, and without any suspicion of wrongdoing. Such a legal regime risks abuse in the long run, regardless of whether one trusts the individuals in office at a particular moment."
Here's another excerpt from the article b3ta posted:
These steps—which many say Snowden should've taken—produced no changes to the objectionable NSA spying and wouldn't be garnering attention at all if not for Snowden's leaks.
Steps taken by John Tye (who I wasn't aware of until the link, thanks b3ta) produced no change to spy practices. Tye made his complaints through "proper" channels, and those channels ignored the issue. I think Snowden did go into it knowing what he was getting into, maybe even that he would be called treasonous and threatened with murder by government officials. The most transparent administration in history and all of that...
Olaf, to say that "he pointed out something most of us kind of knew" seems incorrect, when one, the majority of people in this country probably still don't know about the NSA to this day, and two, that the people who were aware of the NSA could previously be called 'conspiracy theorists' and then ignored by the majority.
Just because Snowden bailed out and went to Honk Kong / Russia doesn't change what he brought to light. He might still be in the news if he had turned himself in and stood trial for treason or whatever BS charge the DOJ would drum up. But I'm still not sure if it would be effective enough to elicit any real change. The media, backed by the gov't, would smear him a traitor, or worse, a (cue scary music) TERRORIST, so effectively that any information he brought to light would still be tarnished.
john oliver would not have been able to interview him if he stayed and faced a military court. the trial would not be public, and the courts/government would do whatever they could to effectively silence him.
sorry Andrew.Cirlce if I assume too much... I grew up around the military and unless I'm mistaken (and I am if it's true, covering my ass)....
the first memory I have of Mountain Dew was a vending machine at now a 'former debunked NSA listening' station...I was a kid (6 years old), mid 80's....Mountain Dew seemed so alien to the country I was in.
I have also had the unfortunate experience of being interrogated for mis-identificaiton as a witness to a larger case and the intorragation by the local police took place in a closed restaurant next to the police station with no lawyer present....apparently name dropping helped in this situation - small town USA! woohooo
As much as those in charge CAN'T be trusted, National Security in this country is a very serious ordeal and sometimes your rights and liberties will be abused to protect the greater good....the question is what limit of abuse is allowed?
i can tell you this, 99.9% of you, and especially those on this website are of no interest to the NSA and unless you are doing something ridiculously illegal - NO ONE CARES....so tap my phones all day. I'm just an architect, who cares.
You have to remember prior to 9/11 the terrorist were of the likes like mainly Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber, etc....
and the fact that John Oliver interviewed Snowden only tells you how much this kid was confused and only did what a kid of this generation would do - raised on movies and video games...consequences? consequences?
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