I am designing a finish wall system. The construction is 8" CMU, 6" steel studs for furring, 5/8" plywood and 3/4" finish plywood. I'd like to be able to attach the finish plywood w/o screwing into the finish face and filling the holes. At first blush, some kind of hidden deck fastener might be the easy choice. Although the ones I've had personal experience w/ were pretty crappy and most require access to the backside of the wall - out of the question for this application. This one seems to be the most promising. But I'm wondering if I'm completely overlooking another alternative. In my mind, directly glueing each panel to the 5/8" plywood substraight is out of the question. I'd like a small reveal between each finish plywood panel (around 3/8"). The finish plywood panels run horizontally (4' lenght x ~16" high, they align w/ every other adjacent CMU mortar joints). The entire wall is roughly 78' long and 30' high with a stage opening in the middle (24' h x 48' l). I don't see the budget allowing any prefab panel system, unless there is an economically viable solution out there I'm not aware of. Thanks.
i would second the french cleat and maybe a button snap at the bottom to lock it into place....
depends on the application and method of assembly... you could do a french cleat at the top then reverse french cleat at the bottom and slide the panel in from the side.....make the cleats just for the ends/center and 4" wide so your slide in motion will be 4" instead of the full length....
i like these metal clips for attaching stone panels. not as good as french cleats in your case but an alternative hardware idea nevertheless. i am sure they sell lighter gage versions for 3/4 material. also it would require a filler strip/material if you don't want to see the small view of the metal where occurs. probably not good.
Panelclip® aluminum extrusion mounting system. Provides a secure and concealed installation method for wood paneling, signage and art work. Based on the principle of the French cleat, Panelclip's® friction fit wedges the panel tightly and securely to the wall. It is a strong, efficient and economical method for the installation of virtually any wall treatment. Cuts nailing, puttying and on the job finishing problems. Affords easy removal for mechanical access, remodeling or refinishing. No tools are required, simply push up and disengage.
Can you expand on why an adhesive is out of the question? It's probably the cheapest in terms of labor and materials and modern adhesives will probably hold better than any type of clip over the long run. After all, plywood is nothing more than wood glued together. So, glue some more wood together, right?
A note about high school auditoriums. From my experience don't put any finish wood where the user can touch it. Can't believe how fast high school students can grafiti something, or worse, take chunks of veneer off a finish plywood, etc.
aquapura, thank you for the critical insight. my opposition to glue is the possible headache of trying to keep so many panels aligned w/ the added height and overal length requirement. now, with that said, i could forsee the possibliity of some kind of two part mastic similar to laying verical tile employed. lasers and shims can help keep everything aligned as the panels are installed. have you had much experience w/ this? the goal is to provide a framework so joe laborer/carpenter can easily execute. this type of conversation is exactly why i'm raising the issue here!
yes, this office does quite a bit of high schools. i have been informed (and lectured) of the potential destruction capabilities of HS students! this particular area will be on stage; for the most part removed from the general circulation of the student population.
i used z-clips with large panelized mirrors. the millwork sub contractor wanted to kill me. they are much harder to install than direct adhesive (precisely because of the alignment problem between panels). you also have the problem of having to "drop" the panel into the cleat, i.e. you have to leave a 5/8" gap at the top of the panel to allow for install. all in all, if i had to do it over again, i would have probably used direct adhesive. the upside of z-clips though is it can very easily be disassembled, if you need to remove a panel.
lasers and shims can help keep everything aligned as the panels are installed.
this totally depends upon how meticulous your installer is. i wouldn't count on this level of precision.
ether..use a thinner back panel so you dont have to route each bracket... unless you plan on having them cnc cut.... then you would have to biscuit router the middle once the panels are togehter unless you flip the back board over during cnc to route both sides...
Jun 30, 10 6:06 pm ·
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Attaching finish plywood to a CMU wall
I am designing a finish wall system. The construction is 8" CMU, 6" steel studs for furring, 5/8" plywood and 3/4" finish plywood. I'd like to be able to attach the finish plywood w/o screwing into the finish face and filling the holes. At first blush, some kind of hidden deck fastener might be the easy choice. Although the ones I've had personal experience w/ were pretty crappy and most require access to the backside of the wall - out of the question for this application. This one seems to be the most promising. But I'm wondering if I'm completely overlooking another alternative. In my mind, directly glueing each panel to the 5/8" plywood substraight is out of the question. I'd like a small reveal between each finish plywood panel (around 3/8"). The finish plywood panels run horizontally (4' lenght x ~16" high, they align w/ every other adjacent CMU mortar joints). The entire wall is roughly 78' long and 30' high with a stage opening in the middle (24' h x 48' l). I don't see the budget allowing any prefab panel system, unless there is an economically viable solution out there I'm not aware of. Thanks.
sounds like my services are needed what are you guys paying?
french cleat
i would second the french cleat and maybe a button snap at the bottom to lock it into place....
depends on the application and method of assembly... you could do a french cleat at the top then reverse french cleat at the bottom and slide the panel in from the side.....make the cleats just for the ends/center and 4" wide so your slide in motion will be 4" instead of the full length....
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i like these metal clips for attaching stone panels. not as good as french cleats in your case but an alternative hardware idea nevertheless. i am sure they sell lighter gage versions for 3/4 material. also it would require a filler strip/material if you don't want to see the small view of the metal where occurs. probably not good.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4746759605_995eb1f4a0.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4746759381_cd3fa525ab_b.jpg
also, light duty metal cleats
http://www.govart.com/images/a-ltcleat12woodLG.jpg
if you are good with a router, i have a few ideas
jeffe and b. thank you!
orhan, i like the clip as well and will look to see if i can find a 3/4" or 5/8" version.
i found this right off the bat. if i doubled up two layers of plywood and cut a kerf to accomodate such a fastener, this might be a viable solution.
thanks again guys.
ether, if you don't mind, let us know how it turns out...
Panelclip® aluminum extrusion mounting system. Provides a secure and concealed installation method for wood paneling, signage and art work. Based on the principle of the French cleat, Panelclip's® friction fit wedges the panel tightly and securely to the wall. It is a strong, efficient and economical method for the installation of virtually any wall treatment. Cuts nailing, puttying and on the job finishing problems. Affords easy removal for mechanical access, remodeling or refinishing. No tools are required, simply push up and disengage.
z-clips?
Z-Clips.
Liquid Nail will work just fine & save you a lot of unnecessary detailing.
And if you're 'above' the last solution - I concur w/ the French Cleat.
Could FRY REGLET have profiles that will hold panels in place and provide you with the finished small reveal you are looking for?
Ditto the liquid nails. Why fight it?
is this interior?
thanks again folks. z-clips are a possibility. at first i considered them too fussy, but they are for the most part very similar to the french cleat.
yes, s_t, this is an interior application. it is the front wall in a HS auditorium.
i'm wondering if this might be an simple solution. i need to find a channel that more closely fits our material proportions.
will definitely keep you posted as this develops.
cheers.
(very quickly pdf'd and posted) the larger units surrounding the stage opening are the plywood panels. view large.
Can you expand on why an adhesive is out of the question? It's probably the cheapest in terms of labor and materials and modern adhesives will probably hold better than any type of clip over the long run. After all, plywood is nothing more than wood glued together. So, glue some more wood together, right?
A note about high school auditoriums. From my experience don't put any finish wood where the user can touch it. Can't believe how fast high school students can grafiti something, or worse, take chunks of veneer off a finish plywood, etc.
aquapura, thank you for the critical insight. my opposition to glue is the possible headache of trying to keep so many panels aligned w/ the added height and overal length requirement. now, with that said, i could forsee the possibliity of some kind of two part mastic similar to laying verical tile employed. lasers and shims can help keep everything aligned as the panels are installed. have you had much experience w/ this? the goal is to provide a framework so joe laborer/carpenter can easily execute. this type of conversation is exactly why i'm raising the issue here!
yes, this office does quite a bit of high schools. i have been informed (and lectured) of the potential destruction capabilities of HS students! this particular area will be on stage; for the most part removed from the general circulation of the student population.
again, thank you for the comments!
i used z-clips with large panelized mirrors. the millwork sub contractor wanted to kill me. they are much harder to install than direct adhesive (precisely because of the alignment problem between panels). you also have the problem of having to "drop" the panel into the cleat, i.e. you have to leave a 5/8" gap at the top of the panel to allow for install. all in all, if i had to do it over again, i would have probably used direct adhesive. the upside of z-clips though is it can very easily be disassembled, if you need to remove a panel.
lasers and shims can help keep everything aligned as the panels are installed.
this totally depends upon how meticulous your installer is. i wouldn't count on this level of precision.
ether..use a thinner back panel so you dont have to route each bracket... unless you plan on having them cnc cut.... then you would have to biscuit router the middle once the panels are togehter unless you flip the back board over during cnc to route both sides...
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