it could help you if you open your own office, then all you need is to marry an accountant, and your set.

from what ive seen most of the people that take project management dedicate themselves solely to that profession, i minored in it while doing my Barch, it is really involved and not something that you can just do on the side like a hobby. Plus it pays better right out of college, so thats the big reason people just stay with project management. Personally, i believe an architect should strive to be a project manager also, It is after all one of the services that was stolen from the architects services.

I did (some of) the Bartlett's PEM course. I love UCL, and the Bartlett, but I'm equivocal about this course.

When I was there it was (or seemed to be) 1/3 from China, 1/4 from Greece, 1/4 London-based funded by their employer, 1/6 local self-funded.

You will get an MSc from UCL (global recognition), you will be eligible for professional recognition from RICS, you will likely meet some lovely people and improve your knowledge. It should be good for your career.

If you haven't done business courses in your previous studies, you will find some great stuff, but if you are familiar with economic analysis and business bullshit bingo, many of the courses are effectively Business/Economics/Marketing101 courses. There's very little difference between the CEM and PEM courses.

There's a facebook group (that draws very few comments).

Worth a look, though not that different is the UCL MSc in inter-disciplinary project management.

There are *no* other courses in or around London worth looking at (e.g. Reading, Southbank..)

It's also important to at least consider the fact that construction careers have been hit even more than architectural ones. There are a LOT of construction PMs out there who are out of work now.

PsyArch, why are equivocal about it?

I am planning to pursue for 2011 whether a MsRED or the CEM/PEM at UCL. The main difference (specially holding a EU-passport) is the cost. An Ivy MsRED is about 8-10 times the cost of the CEM!

I know they are pretty different programs but the CEM is my 2nd option if I find that the MsRED is way too expensive.

I have read and enquired about it and seems fairly nice but my fear is it is too much engineered-orientated.

Hawkin,

Engineering-oriented? Certainly not the PEM/CEM.

The main reason for my lack of support for the PEM/CEM is that a good 50% of it was basic business, marketing, economics. Many of the students found this a total revelation, and I'm sure they valued those modules more highly than I did.

As I state above, if you haven't got your business, marketing, economics, or organisational psychology 101 courses from your previous studies, this course teaches them with a (mild) real estate focus. The school is great, and the professional recognition of the course is great too. It all depends on what you're looking for.

I would have to agree with Displaced; I had a buddy who did architectural engineering, worked for some civil engineers and then mastered in Construction Management. That's all he does now. And is still employed, with no pay cuts (no pay raises either).

Thanks for all the comments,

PsyArch, between PEM/CEM what are the main differences for each program? Im leaning towards PEM just for the fact that its RICS accredited, as I beleive CEM is not. I agree that the course gives you an introduction to business, and thats what I need as I did a 5 year barch. Im hoping that the course will allow me to transition from architecture to consultancy, in one of the main project management consultanys such as MACE, Bovis Lend Lease or Davis langdon. What do you think are the chances of landing such a job with an PEM msc? Also do you know how competitive the course is to get in? Im planning to do the course part time over two years.

H,

The PEM is a pretty good ticket for any of those consultancies. You should be applying to them at the same time as you apply for the MSc. You will likely be able to negotiate your necessary study days, and contribution to fees.

The options on PEM/CEM are the same, the main difference is one core module (you'll find all this online).

Competition for entry varies year by year. Being employed by one of the consultancies that you name above will help.

bon chance

Hi PsyArch,

Thanks a lot for your comments. Really appreciate your point of view.

I just mentioned my feelings regarding the engineering approach by taking a look CVs of current or previous students (mainly thru LinkedIn). Most of the them seemed to be fresh civil engineering graduates with zero experience at the time they made their CEM/PEM.

I am an MArch myself, with 4 years experience and by the time I would finish the MSc/MsRED (applying for 2011/12) I would be 28/29 y.o., and really I cannot see myself in a class with 22 y.o. fresh graduate engineers (no offense). I was actually surprised because I thought admission for CEM/PEM would be competitive, but really most of CVs I saw are anything but impressive. Specially when compared, for instance, to MsRED graduates who usually have at least 5-6 years experience in finance, real estate, construction or architecture, which brings experienced people from very different backgrounds.

What was your feeling about this? Maybe just jumped into the "wrong" profiles?

[hope I'm not double posting]

Hawkin,

There's a fair amount of truth in what you say.

Instead of CEM/PEM have a look at UCL's part-time MSc Strategic Management of Projects. I think this was formerly called the Interdisciplinary Management of Projects.

As I was saying above, the CEM/PEM puts its students through much MBA-type learning but, as you probably appreciate, MBA's tend to be an undergraduate level of learning (apologies to those who went and got one), i.e. they are neither specialist, nor dependent on previous specialist knowledge. That's the nature of most business education.

The logical conclusion from the above is that the peer group is/should be more important than the course content.

Again, as above, if you need your 101 courses in business / marketing / manufacturing / organisational psychology / economics / development / management, then the PEM/CEM is a course that will get you a job in the built environment consultancies mentioned above by Hugoistique, and get you graduate recognition from RICS, and put you on track for APM-type recognition.

From the Strat Man page:

The current average age on the course is just under 35 years old. Whilst five years’ relevant experience is an indicator, less is possible for an exceptional individual. Level of sophistication, experience and skill-sets would suggest a minimum age of 30 is usually appropriate for this course.

PsyArch,

Thanks again for your reply, I really appreciate your comments. I feel we have pretty similar views in this point.

I already knew the SMP program, but I felt that, apart of being probably too senior for me right now, it is not the kind of program I would like to attend (I would rather do a full-time "back to school" style). Plus, I am currently working in Asia (credit crunch anyone?), so it is not very handy to attend a part-time Master in London. :)

ASU has the del-webb school of construction with a good program.

Umich has a good program as well, doable as a dual masters with arch and is part of the civil eng program.