i have an ethical question that would be deserving of some critical feedback:
i am submitting a house project (under construction) for a couple of awards programs that was initially designed (by myself and another intern architect) while i was the design director at another company. the project design was completed while there, but the clients left with me when i established my own firm. they have clearly indicated that i am the architect of their project and that the company had no real role beyond the project coming in the door there.
the dilemma is: do i (and how) somehow acknowledge the role of the prior company in the project? they could, i suppose, claim the project as theirs, since it was designed there. i have, thusfar (and out of respect - there's some bad blood about my leaving, but not that much) kept the logo of the original company on the construction documents, but with no information.
how should we credit the firm? as an associate firm? a consultant (not really). at all? they haven't said two words to me or the clients since the split, but if this ends up in a local exhibit, the last thing i need is for them to cry foul.
IMHO, the project is not yours, its the firm's that you worked for. Full acknowledgement should be given to them. The real question is whether your new firm should be acknowledged. My initial reaction is no. Actually, I question whether the project should be submitted by you at all, and not the firm you worked for. If the client can submit it, that would be the safest route.
Of course, you may have worked out a deal with the firm when you left and took the project with you. In such a case, the firm would have transferred the copyright to you, and there would not be a conflict.
If there was no agreement, I think I might have an idea where the bad blood is coming from. In such a case, I wouldn't want to reopen old wounds, especially if you think legal action could result.
based on what you said, g-love, i have to agree with jitter. you worked for them as their employee. the ownership of the project lay with the employer not the employee.
I agree as well. It can get nasty and if the project is of award winning quality and you do win the original firm will be only more pissed and you get bet the bad blood will only be greater. So either have the owner/ client submit on your behalf or even better just not use that project at this time. There is no bigger waste of time than working to pay for lawyers and being in a pissing match with your old firm. That would be a huge waste of time and money especially for a new office.
some years ago a small building, i was responsible for designing and get it built while i was working for a firm, was submitted for an award with proper credits ie: fims name which was well known and abracadabra under and the project team. the work won an award and when the invitation came for the ceremony, the principal hand it to me and said 'the award is to you and you should go get it', (yes, i worked for nice people like that). so i went and got the certificate front of thousand people including the illuminaties like, richard meier, who also recieved a top award and mayor and the rest.. there is nothing like walking around the cocktail crowd with an award envelope and everybody want to talk to you. several minutes of my 15 of fame was spent that night. a little awkward for my larger ego of the times but it was a nice ending to a project. i moved on started my own practice with my own initial clients and i have a couple of pictures of the said project in my portfolio informing the audience with the time and credition.
anyway, getting back to your business, i agree with jitter12. your position on the issue does not look very easy and basically you are submitting a project with someone else's logo on it.
you can do whatever you want, but if there is a dispute, you don't look so good.
my suggestion to you is, move on. and use the project in your portfolio with correct credits including the reference to your old employee. and hopefully the mentioned project of yours shows some similar departures of what you are doing now.
g-love: often people list projects in the form of "Designed by John Q. Public, while with Random Architecture Associates." Other things you could say are "in cooperation with", "in conjunction with", etc.
You do need to acknowledge the other firm. Not only that, but you really should have a discussion with them BEFORE submitting this for any award or using it for any marketing purposes, etc. I agree that the other firm technically owns the work - at least certain phases of it, and it would be pretty difficult to separate where their ownership ends and yours begins...
If you're an AIA member it's against the code of ethics not to include the other firm's name, and/or to use the project without permission - regardless of how small their involvement and who ended up finishing the project. This is actually one of the issues that are most often referred to the AIA for official decisions - so they have a bunch of previous cases listed on their website. The AIA of course has no power to do anything but "censure" or "warn" their members, or cancel their AIA memberships - but the other firm would also be able to take you to real court over this, so you really should get this issue settled before you submit it. In all likelihood, if you approach the firm first and tell them that you want to include them in the credits they'll allow you to use the project. But, if they don't, it probably isn't worth getting into a dispute over and you might be better off not submitting it.
wow. thanks everyone - the sentiment seems to be running pretty hard in one direction, which is usually a good sign that the collective wisdom is right .
i hadn't intended to cut the other company out of the credits (but was curious to see everyone's thoughts) and the situation surrounding this particular project is somewhat different than if the organization were a normal 'firm' as we are probably all used to (it was a non-profit and i was the only architect). i think the best way to credit it as a joint collaboration (the clients canceled the contract they had and signed a new one with my firm) and point out my role with both organizations. but, given the kind of feedback i'm hearing above, we will strongly reconsider our approach thusfar.
i've seen the 'designed by john q. while at usuk architects' and that's probably the only acceptable way to present the work - certainly if it were to be published in an article (which is different than submitting it for an award).
SHARING PROJECT CREDITS
i have an ethical question that would be deserving of some critical feedback:
i am submitting a house project (under construction) for a couple of awards programs that was initially designed (by myself and another intern architect) while i was the design director at another company. the project design was completed while there, but the clients left with me when i established my own firm. they have clearly indicated that i am the architect of their project and that the company had no real role beyond the project coming in the door there.
the dilemma is: do i (and how) somehow acknowledge the role of the prior company in the project? they could, i suppose, claim the project as theirs, since it was designed there. i have, thusfar (and out of respect - there's some bad blood about my leaving, but not that much) kept the logo of the original company on the construction documents, but with no information.
how should we credit the firm? as an associate firm? a consultant (not really). at all? they haven't said two words to me or the clients since the split, but if this ends up in a local exhibit, the last thing i need is for them to cry foul.
suggestions? thanks in advance
Collaborated with.........???????? maybe
IMHO, the project is not yours, its the firm's that you worked for. Full acknowledgement should be given to them. The real question is whether your new firm should be acknowledged. My initial reaction is no. Actually, I question whether the project should be submitted by you at all, and not the firm you worked for. If the client can submit it, that would be the safest route.
Of course, you may have worked out a deal with the firm when you left and took the project with you. In such a case, the firm would have transferred the copyright to you, and there would not be a conflict.
If there was no agreement, I think I might have an idea where the bad blood is coming from. In such a case, I wouldn't want to reopen old wounds, especially if you think legal action could result.
my 2 cents
based on what you said, g-love, i have to agree with jitter. you worked for them as their employee. the ownership of the project lay with the employer not the employee.
I agree as well. It can get nasty and if the project is of award winning quality and you do win the original firm will be only more pissed and you get bet the bad blood will only be greater. So either have the owner/ client submit on your behalf or even better just not use that project at this time. There is no bigger waste of time than working to pay for lawyers and being in a pissing match with your old firm. That would be a huge waste of time and money especially for a new office.
What about making an arrangement where you are named the design architect and your old firm is named an associate or joint venture architect?
Or, list or old firm as the architect, but if there's room to list the team, note your new firm next to your name.
some years ago a small building, i was responsible for designing and get it built while i was working for a firm, was submitted for an award with proper credits ie: fims name which was well known and abracadabra under and the project team. the work won an award and when the invitation came for the ceremony, the principal hand it to me and said 'the award is to you and you should go get it', (yes, i worked for nice people like that). so i went and got the certificate front of thousand people including the illuminaties like, richard meier, who also recieved a top award and mayor and the rest.. there is nothing like walking around the cocktail crowd with an award envelope and everybody want to talk to you. several minutes of my 15 of fame was spent that night. a little awkward for my larger ego of the times but it was a nice ending to a project. i moved on started my own practice with my own initial clients and i have a couple of pictures of the said project in my portfolio informing the audience with the time and credition.
anyway, getting back to your business, i agree with jitter12. your position on the issue does not look very easy and basically you are submitting a project with someone else's logo on it.
you can do whatever you want, but if there is a dispute, you don't look so good.
my suggestion to you is, move on. and use the project in your portfolio with correct credits including the reference to your old employee. and hopefully the mentioned project of yours shows some similar departures of what you are doing now.
g-love: often people list projects in the form of "Designed by John Q. Public, while with Random Architecture Associates." Other things you could say are "in cooperation with", "in conjunction with", etc.
You do need to acknowledge the other firm. Not only that, but you really should have a discussion with them BEFORE submitting this for any award or using it for any marketing purposes, etc. I agree that the other firm technically owns the work - at least certain phases of it, and it would be pretty difficult to separate where their ownership ends and yours begins...
If you're an AIA member it's against the code of ethics not to include the other firm's name, and/or to use the project without permission - regardless of how small their involvement and who ended up finishing the project. This is actually one of the issues that are most often referred to the AIA for official decisions - so they have a bunch of previous cases listed on their website. The AIA of course has no power to do anything but "censure" or "warn" their members, or cancel their AIA memberships - but the other firm would also be able to take you to real court over this, so you really should get this issue settled before you submit it. In all likelihood, if you approach the firm first and tell them that you want to include them in the credits they'll allow you to use the project. But, if they don't, it probably isn't worth getting into a dispute over and you might be better off not submitting it.
wow. thanks everyone - the sentiment seems to be running pretty hard in one direction, which is usually a good sign that the collective wisdom is right .
i hadn't intended to cut the other company out of the credits (but was curious to see everyone's thoughts) and the situation surrounding this particular project is somewhat different than if the organization were a normal 'firm' as we are probably all used to (it was a non-profit and i was the only architect). i think the best way to credit it as a joint collaboration (the clients canceled the contract they had and signed a new one with my firm) and point out my role with both organizations. but, given the kind of feedback i'm hearing above, we will strongly reconsider our approach thusfar.
i've seen the 'designed by john q. while at usuk architects' and that's probably the only acceptable way to present the work - certainly if it were to be published in an article (which is different than submitting it for an award).
thanks again everyone.
Hope it works out for you. Just use the special sauce
mmmm..... special sauce.....
i like cold beverages.
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