A fresh M. Arch Grad with about 2 years experience is seeking out work. There was a time when one can just look on monster.com, craigslist.com, etc. and find a job at ease. I know things have been tough, and last time I was looking for a job there were tons. Now I feel like I am in a desert. I have yet seen a job posting. Is there a hidden underground site nowadays? Where do I find a job? What do I have to do? Any tips? Websites? It seems like its every man for himself, but I am really lost here.
WOW. your seriously asking this question right now?
"What do I have to do? Any tips?"
I have one for you, be "better" then hundreds of other applicants. Better is a hard word to define. Its really a function of ambition, skill, personality and experience.
By asking a question like "How do i find an architectural job" makes it seem like you have some work to do in those categories.
sorry if that came off too harsh. Good luck, and keep working at it. If you put yourself in the right place at the right time with the right stuff you never know what can happen.
The secret is your connections, people who can smuggle you in to a company or recommend you to their boss. If you don't have any connections, then sorry to say this, you are screwd with this economy... The employers nowdays just ask their employees if they know somebody who is good, instead of posting job ads. This is just another decade of lost architects, after the economy going to improve, they will start hiring new grads for ivy leagues schools again, those of you who graduated now are really in bad situation because you are missing out on years of experience. By the time this economy improves you will forget most of the stuff you learned...
Sometimes having connections doesn't work either.I had that happen to me recently..A friend refused to pass my resume to the hiring manager or even give me the hiring manager's email address and the company was actively looking to fill a position.Now I rely on nobody but myself on finding a job/internship.People can be so backstabbing,selfish and scared(of competition).
This doesn't really help the original post. But if you have the opportunity to do a residency or internship while in school, there exists one of your best chances to find a position after graduation. So pick a firm with a lot of work and make connections. I think a lot of students just have this tunnel vision of "just get to graduation" while in school, which is understandable. Yet networking during your final semesters is something they don't teach you, but remains absolutely necessary.
now when you say you can't find a job, are you looking for an architect job or is it a little broader like a job in an architectural firm. because they way i always envisioned it was you start as a drafter, get better and more responsibility and once your rep around the office rises you could be asked for a low level architect job and rise again. is this not how it works?
k4dm0Nk3y the bottom line is that there is nothing out there. Sorry dude, but bad timing. Just read through the discussion forum here and you will see that there are quite a few people, myself included, who have been in the unemployed boat for a while.
Start out by tapping your connections and seeing if there is anything there. So far that seems to be the most successful avenue for getting employment.
Once you exhaust that, start going down the list of offices in your area while applying to the few jobs that are being posted.
Meanwhile I would use this downtime to your advantage. Work on making your application package top-notch. Revise your cover letter repeatedly. Refine and expand your software skill set, esp. with Revit, Rhino/Grasshopper and rendering. Enjoy the rare moment in your life when you don't have the obligation of school or work and invest in some hobbies. Stay healthy.
I believe there are jobs out there.Not numerous like other professions but there are.A friend of mine found a job by hitting the pavements,another friend got back to the firm she used to work at,another friend got a drafting job in upstate new york and another got job a drafting job with a landscape arch company and all these people I say have about 3> years of experience.I recently got an interview.Although I didn't get the job the more I search the more email replies I get.
Para is right, there is work out there. It’s just very competitive.
Of the 6 people I know that moved from Boston to NYC in the past year, all 6 have found decent jobs (some of them have found 2 or 3 after being let go), all with M.Archs and with 1- 2 years experience.
It wasn't easy for any of them, and it took a while in some cases, but it is possible.
I think a lot of the posts here are right. There's hardly anything available right now. But I want to offer 2 thoughts for all the recent grads looking for jobs out there:
1. There are loads to do to better your chances while keeping your architectural senses sharp: re-work your portfolio; take the AREs (once you start working full time, it becomes a lot harder to find time to study); Learn new softwares (grass hopper, Revit, etc); work on competitions; networking (which is not exclusive to students kissing up to professors. Call up firms you like, ask for advice from high level people, interview them, ask to buy them coffee to hear their success story.... All big dogs like to hear their own voice, especially when there's no strings attached. This type of networking can get your foot in the door the next time they are looking for some one.)
2. Or.... Think of this time as an opportunity to explore and experience life. Travel abroad, live dirt cheap, see the world, volunteer.... Whatever it is that you don't think you can do once you have a mortgage, spouse, kids and dogs... There's no rush to board the 'slave ship' of this profession. You'll be working for the rest of your life. Take this recession as an opprotunity to do what you've always wanted but couldn't because of other 'responsibilities' in your life.
When a position opens at the office I'm working at, sometimes I recommend a friend, sometimes I don't. That's because I know the office, the culture and the people. Some people I know to be great people and/or great designers, but I know that they won't fit in here. In that case, it just doesnt make sense to recommend them: they are not the right person for the job, despite my respect/love for that person.
That being said: If a friend is an architect, I am pretty sure that I know him and his work. I don't have to take a look at his portfolio/resume to know his skills and type of work.
And, with regard to the original question: Connections are the most important part. If there are positions opening up, you might hear about them beforehand - before they even get posted anywhere on the internet. So go out to lectures and other kind of gatherings in your area, get in touch with friends and acquaintances, to have a broader look than just the few jobs posted on the internet.
It all depends on your location too, by the way.
I have spent nearly 1 year to the date trying to get a job at an arch office. I have gotten to have two actual formal site down interviews. Two interviews where I had somewhat of a chance to get a job.
Out of the two interviews, one of them told me they hired someone earlier that day. And that's been pretty much it.
But that's not really surprising to me either. Because I pretty much know that I'm awful/terrible and not very good at anything.
I find your screen name and your evident inability to distinguish the proper usage of the words 'your' vs. 'you're' and 'then' vs. 'than' terribly ironic, all the while attempting to be snarky and berating to the original poster.
OP-
I am in Landscape, but I frequently check my professional organizations job posting (ASLA.org). There have been a number of new listings in past few months compared to almost nothing prior to last December. I went for about 6 month unemployed after graduation.
I got my current job via Craigslist and often take a look at job postings on Archinect. It seems like there are often listings for junior level architects here, though relatively speaking those jobs are admittedly few and far between.
Proper grammar or improper grammar, you get my point.
Only people who don’t have anything thoughtful to offer the discussion spend their time correcting grammar, and its clear by your “advice” that you really don’t have anything new or helpful to say.
Telling someone to check the AIA website and check craigslist is like saying to “Google it.”
k4dm0Nk3y-
I didn’t mean to come off as rude, I was reacting more to how many times this question has been asked then to you specifically.
"Only people who don’t have anything thoughtful to offer the discussion spend their time correcting grammar, and its clear by your “advice” that you really don’t have anything new or helpful to say.
Telling someone to check the AIA website and check craigslist is like saying to “Google it.”
k4dm0Nk3y-
I didn’t mean to come off as rude, I was reacting more to how many times this question has been asked then to you specifically. "
My remarks, although possibly rude, are valid comments. They reflect my opinion of the question asked and go beyond the obvious answer.
So please stop attacking my comments and focus on the question originally posted. If you disagree with my comments then question the idea not the grammar.
I agree, the way I said it may not have been nice, but I don’t think what I said was incorrect or unoriginal.
Show me where. I only criticized Iheartbooks because he/she was rude to the OP when he/she really didn't need to be, THEN I noticed the irony in his/her screen name.
I don't understand why people reply to threads only to insult the OP. I was interested in reading the OP and the replies and I thought I offered some advice, although admittedly limited.
Ahh, I see the problem, you were quoting Iheartbooks, but your use of quotation marks was somewhat ambiguous, since you didn't put quote marks at the beginning of each paragraph, to show you were continuing to quote someone else. It was also made more confusing my nesting double quote marks within double quote marks, as opposed to switching to the ' single quote marks.
So Iheartbooks needs to learn correct grammar, and Larchinect needs to learn correct punctuation.
Perhaps an easier way to write that would have been to use italics, as follows:
Only people who don’t have anything thoughtful to offer the discussion spend their time correcting grammar, and its clear by your “advice” that you really don’t have anything new or helpful to say.
Telling someone to check the AIA website and check craigslist is like saying to “Google it.”
k4dm0Nk3y-
I didn’t mean to come off as rude, I was reacting more to how many times this question has been asked then to you specifically. "
Iheartbooks-
Kind of a hypocrite aren't ya?
---
Anyway, perhaps we should be discussing the topic of the OP's, instead of using personal attacks.
I was out of work for 12 months after getting laid off in 2008. Nobody would hire me. In the meantime, I re-worked and re-worked my portfolio, by redoing my M.Arch Thesis project with Revit 2010.
Finally, I started getting "gigs" 1 month temp assignments at architecture firms in San Francisco. - What did I learn from all of this?
The grim truth was that I wasn't very good and that I needed to do a lot of work on myself to get to a more employable level.
The point I am trying to make is there is a lot of competition out there and only the top 2% are going to get in. This is not the time to play games. - find out what it takes and do it or you will never get back in - firms will hire the youngest, best and brightest Ivy league type they can find and you will sadly be left to the sidelines.
Do yourself a favor, and don’t kid yourself – you really need to be good – average won’t do. In this economy, the mediocre are bring permanently weeded out.
Isn't it funny that you need a Masters degree from an Ivy League quality school just to get a decent job in your field and not have to work some minimum wage retail job.
Isn't it funny that you need a Masters degree from an Ivy League quality school just to get a decent job in your field and not have to work some minimum wage retail job.
There's always "some" jobs out there for those with the prestegious degrees, good connections or best portfolio. I'm hesitant to say that fresh grads are ever hired based on talent, since they haven't really proven their worth yet in the field. That said, focusing on having the best degree with the best graduate portfolio and such doesn't account for the overall lack of Architectural work/paying clients. There just isn't enough work coming in the doors to hire new staff, let alone keep the already employed going.
I keep hearing that fresh grads aren't even thinking about looking for work in traditional architecture firms. Ok, so what are they doing? So many of the standard alternative careers are also hurting. Try getting a job in construction and you'll see a similar employment picture.
Sorry to keep beating a dead horse here, but we aren't going to fix any employment issues in this profession until a couple key things happen. #1, colleges and universities need to start accepting LESS people into Architecture degree programs. I don't care how the weeding is done, just make the degree more limited from the get go. #2, upper level Architects need to start retiring in mass. The current attrition within the profession is mostly happening at mid-level and entry level. That's not good for the future, thus I think Achictects over 65 should transition out of the profession ASAP to make room for those below them. I'm also a fan of early retirement for those that can afford it.
All this banter about how to get a job means nothing in a market where supply far exceeds demand. With unemployment of Architects at 40%+ we simply need a culling of the profession - end of discussion.
You have to realize that statistically 40% of the people on this forum are unemployed and probably have been for some time now and are increasingly growing bitter and cynical, therefore resulting in commentary that is slightly more acerbic than you had expected. Given your "freshness" from school, you are unlikely to receive much sympathy in these hallowed halls.
Considering the extended length of joblessness that is perpetuating in the profession you should also probably just accept that it is likely most of us will continue to be jaded for years to come, even after we may or may not find jobs. Look forward to a lifetime of irritable coworkers who will be quick with recession war stories.
With the outlook on employment still looking pretty bleak I wouldn't get your hopes up of finding a job anytime in the near future unless you can sleep your way into a job (not even a joke, I had a classmate get offered an in at an office in exchange for "services") or if you are willing to work for peanuts, which p.s. continues to lower the overall salaries of the profession to levels that even retail employees find laughable.
The moral of the story here is to pack your bags along with your hopes and dreams, put them in storage and move back into your childhood bedroom, joining the 40% of us who have nothing better to do with our lives than to sit around flooding the archinect discussion forum with messages of anger, hopelessness and frustration at pretty much everything, US Soccer Jerseys included..
Welcome to the club my friend. Your T-shirt is in the mail.
I couldn't disagree more aqua, allowing fewer people degrees in architecture is basically a "cutting off your nose to spite your face" sort of thing.
What we really need is more jobs that put all those college degrees to use, as opposed reducing the number of people with degrees.
and/or
Redesign our higher education system so that people don't become wage slaves after graduation to pay off their college loans.
Increasing the education level of the members of a community (in this case a country) has a positive effect on society. Telling people to either not get an education at all, or to invest in a career they don't really want (ie, you can't be in the architecture profession, so pick your the profession you're 2nd best at, or one you enjoy the 2nd most) will have a negative impact on society, because either people won't go to college, or they'll spend a lot of money on a degree they don't really want.
All college programs should be open to anyone, none of these crap minimum requirements. If a student can't complete the requirements to get their degree, then they don't get one. Anyone that can meet the university's requirements for graduation should be allowed to. And stop punishing people who want to better themselves and their community by getting educated with these backbreaking loans just to afford it.
I donno what standards you go by to "cull the herd" in architecture school, perhaps we should require people to have jobs lined up before they start college. ie, you can't go to architecture school unless you have a friend or family member willing to sponsor you, signing a contract that you'll have a job in 5-6 years when you graduate.
Or perhaps we only let NAAB accreditate Ivy League level schools, to guarantee that graduates will be able to find jobs.
We only have two choices as a society, either a) want fewer educated people or b) a lower the debt incurred from higher education.
It's easy to tell a bunch of other people what they can or can't do with their lives when you've already gotten your education and are in the profession. Hell, after I got my masters degree I'd love to say, "cut enrollment in grad schools by 90%" just so I can get a better job, but that would be stupid and unfair.
One thing that I see is that most of, or all of the ivy league type of job seekers are not trying to get jobs in firms that "don't design" or the work is not as "interesting", and kill their dream and have a less of ideal future, unless they are very desperate.
So, there are lots of firms out there that don't need someone with those types of skills, but someone with good knowledge of construction documentation, management, etc.
I have to agree with milwaukee08, what kind of society would we be in if less and less people went to college? it would be convenient for those of us who are the best of the best because of competition, but its a big world and we are the only super power, and we have the lowest rating for science and mathematics who knows what else.
If anything we should all help students stay motivated to do their best, so that they don't end up talking like Zaha Hadid's partner something Patrick ,(who gave a lecture at USC) the guy is certifiable.
Milwaukee, I think you misunderstood me. In a perfect world it would be great if we could put everyone with an Architecture degree to work. That was nearly what we had back in 2006,07,08 time frame. Today there is far less work out there requiring Architects, plain and simple. Unless you have a way to legislate us more work, we're not going to fixe the 40%+ unemployment unless another building boom inflates or we have attrition within our own ranks.
It's a simple supply vs. demand scenario.
Now I've suggested that people retire at the top and universities churn out less grads at the bottom. If we have less graduates every year within a generation we'd rightsize the supply of Architects with the new reality of the supply of work.
I've used the example of pharmacists before. They enjoy low unemployment and high wages because there are very few accredited universities and low numbers of graduates. I'm sure Wal-Mart would love to hire pharmicists for pennies, but they can't because there is not cut-throat competition for jobs in their field.
There may be people that really wanted to be pharmicists but couldn't make the cut. Too bad, is the profession, society, any worse off for it? Nope. We do nothing for our profession by flooding it with more and more graduates that can't find work in an already flooded market.
Aqua, right, I understand the supply/demand scenario. Part of your solution is to cut the supply of workers in economic downtimes.
Your argument would be sound if the architecture professions was in a bubble, and we didn't have to worry about the "outside", but we do. Lets say we have 100 students, and over the course of their education 50 drop out as "unqualified", the remaining 50 complete their degree, but the market only as enough jobs for 25 of them.
Your solution is to not let 25 of them get their degree, not because they're unqualified, but because the current market can't support that many people with degrees. Punishing qualified students for a market they didn't even cause.
Well that's fine and dandy for the 25 that are allowed to graduate, but what are the 25 that are qualified to graduate but aren't allowed to supposed to do? My answer is either they will A) not go to school at all so as not to incur debt or B) try to get a degree they are probably less qualified for, or enjoy less, but is more profitable, thereby flooding some other profession, like pharmacy.
While limiting the number of workers in one profession will increase the value of workers in that profession, it will make the situation worse in another. All those qualified architects gotta go somewhere, right? And what about all those qualified workers in other professions that were hit by the recession? They gotta go somewhere too, right? They're either not going to go back to school, or they'll flood markets like pharmacy, something they may be qualified for but less talented at, thus flooding that market.
Until education isn't tied to future earnings this is going to be a problem in almost every profession. The problem isn't that we have too many people in the architecture profession, the problem is that when you get out of school you're practically forced to get a job in the profession because its the only way to pay off the high amount of loans required to go to school. When you force people to take a $16/hr job just to pay their loans, and the majority of jobs paying that high are in the profession, that's why we have an overpopulation problem. Eliminate that crushing debt and people will be more willing to take $12/hr jobs outside of the profession, because they won't be paying $4/hr for their loans.
my evil plan to keep crazy people (aka zaha hadid, rem koolhaas, frank ghery, crazy designers) is not working out so well, ive tried the jedi mind trick on them too, no luck.
Ha! When I go through a lot of the portfolios that people put up here, and see work coming out of the "best" schools, it seems like a competition to design the weirdest buildings. It's like, for whatever reason, arch schools just eat up the craziest bs like it's candy.
I think finding a job is sheer luck. Seriously. My brother was "out of practice" for 6 years and was actually focused on working on his (then) first option (teaching). He had no local experience. He barely knew CAD. He landed a job with one of the major firms in their state. The hiring manager must have seen something in him.
He's so far survived two rounds of lay-offs the past year or so.
I keep this story in mind every time I feel too depressed about my state. I know based on facts that my credentials put me on the bottom of the resume pile. My job is out there somewhere.
Some people say the best way to find a job is stop looking for it.Some say the same thing about love.Now they both started to look like a fairytale to me...
I try to think that there's someone out there who needs the job more than I do (even if I really do need the job at this point) for now. I would like to think that the job is given to someone with more responsibilities than I have.
I don't know if I can say that I've exhausted all efforts to find a job. Maybe I have not done enough. My friends have cold-called offices to no avail - - I still don't think it's wise to do so as I've seen one too many "NO PHONE CALLS" on job ads. I have sent unsolicited emails to companies and am now sending another unsolicited "follow up" to the company I really want to work with.
This thread is depressing at the same time it makes me realize that it's not really "me" that's the issue, but the general climate of architecture and design.
I tried cold calling too..there are lots of articles that encourage cold calling to find jobs.I tried it once after a couple of vodka shots ('cos I'm terribly shy) but I kept getting shafted by the receptionists (they were all terribly rude)so I gave up.No wonder people call them the "gatekeepers"!
your right toaster,
Right now im just saving my pennies and later ill open up a shop, but if those people leave architecture i wont mind it. i dont hate them thats too strong a word i just know they dont belong in architecture.
I think the idea is to stop 'searching' for the job and spend more time outside, networking, talking to people instead of pursuing. Maybe.
I sort of did this last year when I was unemployed. I gave up looking and did a bunch of personal stuff and eventually, of course when I was starting to enjoy life again, a job opp came along.
I'm not a believer in cold calling or even emailing really. And you're just plain out of touch if you still think you ca beat the street and go knocking on doors. it's just annoying now, this isn't the 80's.
I agree with what a lot of people have said already, keep working on your resumé and your portfolio, learn the latest programs, get out there and go to events.
I worked for about 2 years, then I was unemployed for a year and finally got a temp architect job at a local firm. When that ended I got my current job through a coworker there who was good friends with a partner at another firm.
I also landed 5 other interviews after sending out my resumé, cover letter and a page with some images of my work to firms I was interested in - whether they were officially looking for people or not. I also called them to follow up about 4 days or at least under a week later. I really recommend this because you are fresh in their minds because they got an email from you just a few days before, you have a reason for calling (to see if they got your email and to find out if they're hiring) and you are usually able to get much better info than just by waiting for a generic response from them via email. People are usually much more open when they're chatting on the phone. Maybe they'll need someone in 3 months or they'll tell you more about a specific project or they'll ask you if you are willing to do temp work... Lots of possibilities for future follow ups at the very least. And if they're rude then that's their problem (I've found out through friends after a few years of us working, that the places that have been rude to me in the past also tend to be bad places to work).
Considering how full people's inboxes tend to get nowadays it will be easier for them to locate your email while you're on the phone if you call just a few days later rather than 2 weeks later. This is a good thing because they can ask questions and they'll really connect a voice with an application.
I also went to events (lectures, opening parties) and people start to recognize you and get to know who you are. It takes time but really it's just a matter of showing up and repeatedly meeting people. It builds trust and shows dedication.
Trust me, I know how frustrating it can be! It takes a lot of initial investment, but eventually it will pay off. One of my interviews I got because of an unsolicited application I sent off a year and a half earlier and they emailed to ask if I was still interested!
How to find an architectural job?
A fresh M. Arch Grad with about 2 years experience is seeking out work. There was a time when one can just look on monster.com, craigslist.com, etc. and find a job at ease. I know things have been tough, and last time I was looking for a job there were tons. Now I feel like I am in a desert. I have yet seen a job posting. Is there a hidden underground site nowadays? Where do I find a job? What do I have to do? Any tips? Websites? It seems like its every man for himself, but I am really lost here.
I frequently explore AIA.org and Archinect.com for jobs in the US and Architizer for international positions
awww. error404-- I was hoping you were going to post a big 404 JOB NOT FOUND picture on this thread!
WOW. your seriously asking this question right now?
"What do I have to do? Any tips?"
I have one for you, be "better" then hundreds of other applicants. Better is a hard word to define. Its really a function of ambition, skill, personality and experience.
By asking a question like "How do i find an architectural job" makes it seem like you have some work to do in those categories.
sorry if that came off too harsh. Good luck, and keep working at it. If you put yourself in the right place at the right time with the right stuff you never know what can happen.
also, remember:
(10,000) fresh M. Arch Grad(s) with about 2 years experience (are) seeking out work.
The secret is your connections, people who can smuggle you in to a company or recommend you to their boss. If you don't have any connections, then sorry to say this, you are screwd with this economy... The employers nowdays just ask their employees if they know somebody who is good, instead of posting job ads. This is just another decade of lost architects, after the economy going to improve, they will start hiring new grads for ivy leagues schools again, those of you who graduated now are really in bad situation because you are missing out on years of experience. By the time this economy improves you will forget most of the stuff you learned...
Sometimes having connections doesn't work either.I had that happen to me recently..A friend refused to pass my resume to the hiring manager or even give me the hiring manager's email address and the company was actively looking to fill a position.Now I rely on nobody but myself on finding a job/internship.People can be so backstabbing,selfish and scared(of competition).
paradox, maybe your "friend" didn't think you did good work and want to make him/herself look bad by recommending you? ;)
This doesn't really help the original post. But if you have the opportunity to do a residency or internship while in school, there exists one of your best chances to find a position after graduation. So pick a firm with a lot of work and make connections. I think a lot of students just have this tunnel vision of "just get to graduation" while in school, which is understandable. Yet networking during your final semesters is something they don't teach you, but remains absolutely necessary.
now when you say you can't find a job, are you looking for an architect job or is it a little broader like a job in an architectural firm. because they way i always envisioned it was you start as a drafter, get better and more responsibility and once your rep around the office rises you could be asked for a low level architect job and rise again. is this not how it works?
k4dm0Nk3y the bottom line is that there is nothing out there. Sorry dude, but bad timing. Just read through the discussion forum here and you will see that there are quite a few people, myself included, who have been in the unemployed boat for a while.
Start out by tapping your connections and seeing if there is anything there. So far that seems to be the most successful avenue for getting employment.
Once you exhaust that, start going down the list of offices in your area while applying to the few jobs that are being posted.
Meanwhile I would use this downtime to your advantage. Work on making your application package top-notch. Revise your cover letter repeatedly. Refine and expand your software skill set, esp. with Revit, Rhino/Grasshopper and rendering. Enjoy the rare moment in your life when you don't have the obligation of school or work and invest in some hobbies. Stay healthy.
"maybe your "friend" didn't think you did good work and want to make him/herself look bad by recommending you?"
Actually he didn't even bother looking at my work.Oh well...
I believe there are jobs out there.Not numerous like other professions but there are.A friend of mine found a job by hitting the pavements,another friend got back to the firm she used to work at,another friend got a drafting job in upstate new york and another got job a drafting job with a landscape arch company and all these people I say have about 3> years of experience.I recently got an interview.Although I didn't get the job the more I search the more email replies I get.
I have noticed lately that there seems to be some positive growth that I hope continues. That said it's still very competitive out there.
Para is right, there is work out there. It’s just very competitive.
Of the 6 people I know that moved from Boston to NYC in the past year, all 6 have found decent jobs (some of them have found 2 or 3 after being let go), all with M.Archs and with 1- 2 years experience.
It wasn't easy for any of them, and it took a while in some cases, but it is possible.
Yay optimism.
I think a lot of the posts here are right. There's hardly anything available right now. But I want to offer 2 thoughts for all the recent grads looking for jobs out there:
1. There are loads to do to better your chances while keeping your architectural senses sharp: re-work your portfolio; take the AREs (once you start working full time, it becomes a lot harder to find time to study); Learn new softwares (grass hopper, Revit, etc); work on competitions; networking (which is not exclusive to students kissing up to professors. Call up firms you like, ask for advice from high level people, interview them, ask to buy them coffee to hear their success story.... All big dogs like to hear their own voice, especially when there's no strings attached. This type of networking can get your foot in the door the next time they are looking for some one.)
2. Or.... Think of this time as an opportunity to explore and experience life. Travel abroad, live dirt cheap, see the world, volunteer.... Whatever it is that you don't think you can do once you have a mortgage, spouse, kids and dogs... There's no rush to board the 'slave ship' of this profession. You'll be working for the rest of your life. Take this recession as an opprotunity to do what you've always wanted but couldn't because of other 'responsibilities' in your life.
@Parad0xx86:
When a position opens at the office I'm working at, sometimes I recommend a friend, sometimes I don't. That's because I know the office, the culture and the people. Some people I know to be great people and/or great designers, but I know that they won't fit in here. In that case, it just doesnt make sense to recommend them: they are not the right person for the job, despite my respect/love for that person.
That being said: If a friend is an architect, I am pretty sure that I know him and his work. I don't have to take a look at his portfolio/resume to know his skills and type of work.
And, with regard to the original question: Connections are the most important part. If there are positions opening up, you might hear about them beforehand - before they even get posted anywhere on the internet. So go out to lectures and other kind of gatherings in your area, get in touch with friends and acquaintances, to have a broader look than just the few jobs posted on the internet.
It all depends on your location too, by the way.
Don't sweat it, the job will come. As for now just enjoy your youth. Go to the lake more often.
I have spent nearly 1 year to the date trying to get a job at an arch office. I have gotten to have two actual formal site down interviews. Two interviews where I had somewhat of a chance to get a job.
Out of the two interviews, one of them told me they hired someone earlier that day. And that's been pretty much it.
But that's not really surprising to me either. Because I pretty much know that I'm awful/terrible and not very good at anything.
Iheartbooks-
I find your screen name and your evident inability to distinguish the proper usage of the words 'your' vs. 'you're' and 'then' vs. 'than' terribly ironic, all the while attempting to be snarky and berating to the original poster.
OP-
I am in Landscape, but I frequently check my professional organizations job posting (ASLA.org). There have been a number of new listings in past few months compared to almost nothing prior to last December. I went for about 6 month unemployed after graduation.
I got my current job via Craigslist and often take a look at job postings on Archinect. It seems like there are often listings for junior level architects here, though relatively speaking those jobs are admittedly few and far between.
Hope that helps a little.
Larchinect-
Proper grammar or improper grammar, you get my point.
Only people who don’t have anything thoughtful to offer the discussion spend their time correcting grammar, and its clear by your “advice” that you really don’t have anything new or helpful to say.
Telling someone to check the AIA website and check craigslist is like saying to “Google it.”
k4dm0Nk3y-
I didn’t mean to come off as rude, I was reacting more to how many times this question has been asked then to you specifically.
"Only people who don’t have anything thoughtful to offer the discussion spend their time correcting grammar, and its clear by your “advice” that you really don’t have anything new or helpful to say.
Telling someone to check the AIA website and check craigslist is like saying to “Google it.”
k4dm0Nk3y-
I didn’t mean to come off as rude, I was reacting more to how many times this question has been asked then to you specifically. "
Iheartbooks-
Kind of a hypocrite aren't ya?
I don't think so.
My remarks, although possibly rude, are valid comments. They reflect my opinion of the question asked and go beyond the obvious answer.
So please stop attacking my comments and focus on the question originally posted. If you disagree with my comments then question the idea not the grammar.
I agree, the way I said it may not have been nice, but I don’t think what I said was incorrect or unoriginal.
I am not going to argue with you anymore sir.
Did anyone else notice Larchinect also used "then" instead of "than", and then calls Iheartbooks a hypocrite?
We're just knee-deep in irony here, aren't we.
"We're just knee-deep in irony here, aren't we."
Show me where. I only criticized Iheartbooks because he/she was rude to the OP when he/she really didn't need to be, THEN I noticed the irony in his/her screen name.
I don't understand why people reply to threads only to insult the OP. I was interested in reading the OP and the replies and I thought I offered some advice, although admittedly limited.
I'm just being an ass I guess. I'll stop now.
Ahh, I see the problem, you were quoting Iheartbooks, but your use of quotation marks was somewhat ambiguous, since you didn't put quote marks at the beginning of each paragraph, to show you were continuing to quote someone else. It was also made more confusing my nesting double quote marks within double quote marks, as opposed to switching to the ' single quote marks.
So Iheartbooks needs to learn correct grammar, and Larchinect needs to learn correct punctuation.
Perhaps an easier way to write that would have been to use italics, as follows:
Only people who don’t have anything thoughtful to offer the discussion spend their time correcting grammar, and its clear by your “advice” that you really don’t have anything new or helpful to say.
Telling someone to check the AIA website and check craigslist is like saying to “Google it.”
k4dm0Nk3y-
I didn’t mean to come off as rude, I was reacting more to how many times this question has been asked then to you specifically. "
Iheartbooks-
Kind of a hypocrite aren't ya?
---
Anyway, perhaps we should be discussing the topic of the OP's, instead of using personal attacks.
I was out of work for 12 months after getting laid off in 2008. Nobody would hire me. In the meantime, I re-worked and re-worked my portfolio, by redoing my M.Arch Thesis project with Revit 2010.
Finally, I started getting "gigs" 1 month temp assignments at architecture firms in San Francisco. - What did I learn from all of this?
The grim truth was that I wasn't very good and that I needed to do a lot of work on myself to get to a more employable level.
The point I am trying to make is there is a lot of competition out there and only the top 2% are going to get in. This is not the time to play games. - find out what it takes and do it or you will never get back in - firms will hire the youngest, best and brightest Ivy league type they can find and you will sadly be left to the sidelines.
Do yourself a favor, and don’t kid yourself – you really need to be good – average won’t do. In this economy, the mediocre are bring permanently weeded out.
Isn't it funny that you need a Masters degree from an Ivy League quality school just to get a decent job in your field and not have to work some minimum wage retail job.
There's always "some" jobs out there for those with the prestegious degrees, good connections or best portfolio. I'm hesitant to say that fresh grads are ever hired based on talent, since they haven't really proven their worth yet in the field. That said, focusing on having the best degree with the best graduate portfolio and such doesn't account for the overall lack of Architectural work/paying clients. There just isn't enough work coming in the doors to hire new staff, let alone keep the already employed going.
I keep hearing that fresh grads aren't even thinking about looking for work in traditional architecture firms. Ok, so what are they doing? So many of the standard alternative careers are also hurting. Try getting a job in construction and you'll see a similar employment picture.
Sorry to keep beating a dead horse here, but we aren't going to fix any employment issues in this profession until a couple key things happen. #1, colleges and universities need to start accepting LESS people into Architecture degree programs. I don't care how the weeding is done, just make the degree more limited from the get go. #2, upper level Architects need to start retiring in mass. The current attrition within the profession is mostly happening at mid-level and entry level. That's not good for the future, thus I think Achictects over 65 should transition out of the profession ASAP to make room for those below them. I'm also a fan of early retirement for those that can afford it.
All this banter about how to get a job means nothing in a market where supply far exceeds demand. With unemployment of Architects at 40%+ we simply need a culling of the profession - end of discussion.
damn aqua, holz doesn't want to be culled...
jesus this is the most depressing thread ever
Why I can't stand this profession... the people suck! Thanks for those that were willing to help a fellow out!
You have to realize that statistically 40% of the people on this forum are unemployed and probably have been for some time now and are increasingly growing bitter and cynical, therefore resulting in commentary that is slightly more acerbic than you had expected. Given your "freshness" from school, you are unlikely to receive much sympathy in these hallowed halls.
Considering the extended length of joblessness that is perpetuating in the profession you should also probably just accept that it is likely most of us will continue to be jaded for years to come, even after we may or may not find jobs. Look forward to a lifetime of irritable coworkers who will be quick with recession war stories.
With the outlook on employment still looking pretty bleak I wouldn't get your hopes up of finding a job anytime in the near future unless you can sleep your way into a job (not even a joke, I had a classmate get offered an in at an office in exchange for "services") or if you are willing to work for peanuts, which p.s. continues to lower the overall salaries of the profession to levels that even retail employees find laughable.
The moral of the story here is to pack your bags along with your hopes and dreams, put them in storage and move back into your childhood bedroom, joining the 40% of us who have nothing better to do with our lives than to sit around flooding the archinect discussion forum with messages of anger, hopelessness and frustration at pretty much everything, US Soccer Jerseys included..
Welcome to the club my friend. Your T-shirt is in the mail.
I couldn't disagree more aqua, allowing fewer people degrees in architecture is basically a "cutting off your nose to spite your face" sort of thing.
What we really need is more jobs that put all those college degrees to use, as opposed reducing the number of people with degrees.
and/or
Redesign our higher education system so that people don't become wage slaves after graduation to pay off their college loans.
Increasing the education level of the members of a community (in this case a country) has a positive effect on society. Telling people to either not get an education at all, or to invest in a career they don't really want (ie, you can't be in the architecture profession, so pick your the profession you're 2nd best at, or one you enjoy the 2nd most) will have a negative impact on society, because either people won't go to college, or they'll spend a lot of money on a degree they don't really want.
All college programs should be open to anyone, none of these crap minimum requirements. If a student can't complete the requirements to get their degree, then they don't get one. Anyone that can meet the university's requirements for graduation should be allowed to. And stop punishing people who want to better themselves and their community by getting educated with these backbreaking loans just to afford it.
I donno what standards you go by to "cull the herd" in architecture school, perhaps we should require people to have jobs lined up before they start college. ie, you can't go to architecture school unless you have a friend or family member willing to sponsor you, signing a contract that you'll have a job in 5-6 years when you graduate.
Or perhaps we only let NAAB accreditate Ivy League level schools, to guarantee that graduates will be able to find jobs.
We only have two choices as a society, either a) want fewer educated people or b) a lower the debt incurred from higher education.
It's easy to tell a bunch of other people what they can or can't do with their lives when you've already gotten your education and are in the profession. Hell, after I got my masters degree I'd love to say, "cut enrollment in grad schools by 90%" just so I can get a better job, but that would be stupid and unfair.
One thing that I see is that most of, or all of the ivy league type of job seekers are not trying to get jobs in firms that "don't design" or the work is not as "interesting", and kill their dream and have a less of ideal future, unless they are very desperate.
So, there are lots of firms out there that don't need someone with those types of skills, but someone with good knowledge of construction documentation, management, etc.
I have to agree with milwaukee08, what kind of society would we be in if less and less people went to college? it would be convenient for those of us who are the best of the best because of competition, but its a big world and we are the only super power, and we have the lowest rating for science and mathematics who knows what else.
If anything we should all help students stay motivated to do their best, so that they don't end up talking like Zaha Hadid's partner something Patrick ,(who gave a lecture at USC) the guy is certifiable.
Milwaukee, I think you misunderstood me. In a perfect world it would be great if we could put everyone with an Architecture degree to work. That was nearly what we had back in 2006,07,08 time frame. Today there is far less work out there requiring Architects, plain and simple. Unless you have a way to legislate us more work, we're not going to fixe the 40%+ unemployment unless another building boom inflates or we have attrition within our own ranks.
It's a simple supply vs. demand scenario.
Now I've suggested that people retire at the top and universities churn out less grads at the bottom. If we have less graduates every year within a generation we'd rightsize the supply of Architects with the new reality of the supply of work.
I've used the example of pharmacists before. They enjoy low unemployment and high wages because there are very few accredited universities and low numbers of graduates. I'm sure Wal-Mart would love to hire pharmicists for pennies, but they can't because there is not cut-throat competition for jobs in their field.
There may be people that really wanted to be pharmicists but couldn't make the cut. Too bad, is the profession, society, any worse off for it? Nope. We do nothing for our profession by flooding it with more and more graduates that can't find work in an already flooded market.
I think the supply/demand ratio in architecture is working to correct itself right now.
Aqua, right, I understand the supply/demand scenario. Part of your solution is to cut the supply of workers in economic downtimes.
Your argument would be sound if the architecture professions was in a bubble, and we didn't have to worry about the "outside", but we do. Lets say we have 100 students, and over the course of their education 50 drop out as "unqualified", the remaining 50 complete their degree, but the market only as enough jobs for 25 of them.
Your solution is to not let 25 of them get their degree, not because they're unqualified, but because the current market can't support that many people with degrees. Punishing qualified students for a market they didn't even cause.
Well that's fine and dandy for the 25 that are allowed to graduate, but what are the 25 that are qualified to graduate but aren't allowed to supposed to do? My answer is either they will A) not go to school at all so as not to incur debt or B) try to get a degree they are probably less qualified for, or enjoy less, but is more profitable, thereby flooding some other profession, like pharmacy.
While limiting the number of workers in one profession will increase the value of workers in that profession, it will make the situation worse in another. All those qualified architects gotta go somewhere, right? And what about all those qualified workers in other professions that were hit by the recession? They gotta go somewhere too, right? They're either not going to go back to school, or they'll flood markets like pharmacy, something they may be qualified for but less talented at, thus flooding that market.
Until education isn't tied to future earnings this is going to be a problem in almost every profession. The problem isn't that we have too many people in the architecture profession, the problem is that when you get out of school you're practically forced to get a job in the profession because its the only way to pay off the high amount of loans required to go to school. When you force people to take a $16/hr job just to pay their loans, and the majority of jobs paying that high are in the profession, that's why we have an overpopulation problem. Eliminate that crushing debt and people will be more willing to take $12/hr jobs outside of the profession, because they won't be paying $4/hr for their loans.
my evil plan to keep crazy people (aka zaha hadid, rem koolhaas, frank ghery, crazy designers) is not working out so well, ive tried the jedi mind trick on them too, no luck.
i meant keeping them out of architecture
Ha! When I go through a lot of the portfolios that people put up here, and see work coming out of the "best" schools, it seems like a competition to design the weirdest buildings. It's like, for whatever reason, arch schools just eat up the craziest bs like it's candy.
displaced - don't be hatin' the player - change the game.
I think finding a job is sheer luck. Seriously. My brother was "out of practice" for 6 years and was actually focused on working on his (then) first option (teaching). He had no local experience. He barely knew CAD. He landed a job with one of the major firms in their state. The hiring manager must have seen something in him.
He's so far survived two rounds of lay-offs the past year or so.
I keep this story in mind every time I feel too depressed about my state. I know based on facts that my credentials put me on the bottom of the resume pile. My job is out there somewhere.
Some people say the best way to find a job is stop looking for it.Some say the same thing about love.Now they both started to look like a fairytale to me...
LOL @ Paradoxx86. I heard that too.
I try to think that there's someone out there who needs the job more than I do (even if I really do need the job at this point) for now. I would like to think that the job is given to someone with more responsibilities than I have.
I don't know if I can say that I've exhausted all efforts to find a job. Maybe I have not done enough. My friends have cold-called offices to no avail - - I still don't think it's wise to do so as I've seen one too many "NO PHONE CALLS" on job ads. I have sent unsolicited emails to companies and am now sending another unsolicited "follow up" to the company I really want to work with.
This thread is depressing at the same time it makes me realize that it's not really "me" that's the issue, but the general climate of architecture and design.
I tried cold calling too..there are lots of articles that encourage cold calling to find jobs.I tried it once after a couple of vodka shots ('cos I'm terribly shy) but I kept getting shafted by the receptionists (they were all terribly rude)so I gave up.No wonder people call them the "gatekeepers"!
your right toaster,
Right now im just saving my pennies and later ill open up a shop, but if those people leave architecture i wont mind it. i dont hate them thats too strong a word i just know they dont belong in architecture.
paradoxx-
I think the idea is to stop 'searching' for the job and spend more time outside, networking, talking to people instead of pursuing. Maybe.
I sort of did this last year when I was unemployed. I gave up looking and did a bunch of personal stuff and eventually, of course when I was starting to enjoy life again, a job opp came along.
I'm not a believer in cold calling or even emailing really. And you're just plain out of touch if you still think you ca beat the street and go knocking on doors. it's just annoying now, this isn't the 80's.
I agree with what a lot of people have said already, keep working on your resumé and your portfolio, learn the latest programs, get out there and go to events.
I worked for about 2 years, then I was unemployed for a year and finally got a temp architect job at a local firm. When that ended I got my current job through a coworker there who was good friends with a partner at another firm.
I also landed 5 other interviews after sending out my resumé, cover letter and a page with some images of my work to firms I was interested in - whether they were officially looking for people or not. I also called them to follow up about 4 days or at least under a week later. I really recommend this because you are fresh in their minds because they got an email from you just a few days before, you have a reason for calling (to see if they got your email and to find out if they're hiring) and you are usually able to get much better info than just by waiting for a generic response from them via email. People are usually much more open when they're chatting on the phone. Maybe they'll need someone in 3 months or they'll tell you more about a specific project or they'll ask you if you are willing to do temp work... Lots of possibilities for future follow ups at the very least. And if they're rude then that's their problem (I've found out through friends after a few years of us working, that the places that have been rude to me in the past also tend to be bad places to work).
Considering how full people's inboxes tend to get nowadays it will be easier for them to locate your email while you're on the phone if you call just a few days later rather than 2 weeks later. This is a good thing because they can ask questions and they'll really connect a voice with an application.
I also went to events (lectures, opening parties) and people start to recognize you and get to know who you are. It takes time but really it's just a matter of showing up and repeatedly meeting people. It builds trust and shows dedication.
Trust me, I know how frustrating it can be! It takes a lot of initial investment, but eventually it will pay off. One of my interviews I got because of an unsolicited application I sent off a year and a half earlier and they emailed to ask if I was still interested!
Good luck!
"And you're just plain out of touch if you still think you ca beat the street and go knocking on doors. it's just annoying now, this isn't the 80's."
Actually my friend found a job just doing that 3 months ago..Errr..
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