trying to survive the March....wondering if it's all going to be worthwhile in the end. can somone give me something to go on? i'm not sure if i'm cut out for this....
what is meaningful and purposeful about being an architect? how do we help people? would you say you live to work, or that you work to live? is a practicing architect as out of balance as an architecture student, or are parameters on how many hours spent in a studio/day all of a sudden introduced in the 'real world'......
Being an architect means having the amazing ability to almost anything you want with it. If you want to help people it is there. Unfortunately if you just want to burn new garbage cans with laser cutters, that is there too, but all of the insane work of school prepares you to make a difference in the world if you are up for it. That to is hard work, but you can make a real, physical impact on the world around you. I'm doing it and I think it's worth it......Make your work about something besides form and it becomes very worthwhile.
This insidious occupation is one of dichotomous expression.
With perseverance you will grow to love it and hate both at the same time with a passion and indifference.
To quote a famous Architectural mentor Whitney Houston from The Greatest Love of All
I believe the children are our are future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be
Everybody searching for a hero
People need someone to look up to
I never found anyone who fulfill my needs
A lonely place to be
So I learned to depend on me.
The real world is the one in which Architecture makes a difference. Academia is for those who like to chat about the difference.
First of all, I wish I could remember which hipster author referred to the "state of universal self-loathing that is graduate school". Not that I didn’t love every minute of my MArch, but it is also amazing how the world clears up a few years out of school. After the first brutal years, that is, when you’re barely making enough money to get by while drawing bathroom elevations for 60 hours/week.
The purposeful social aspect of being an architect depends a lot on what kind of work you do. I do a lot of work with churches and non-profit groups, which means working with building committees made up of lay people who have never gone through the building process in any way before. Working with committees is extremely demanding, full of petty politics, usually involves after-hours meetings, never has enough budget, and requires immense patience to build consensus about what is to be built. And yet, it is incredibly fulfilling work. Getting something built that a group has collectively dreamed of for years is as rewarding a job as one could ask for.
School is out of balance because you have so much time to think about issues that cause imbalance. A few years in the real world teach you to worry about the significant things, then a few more years in the profession introduce you to the more fun and interesting side of architecture – not just bathroom elevations - then a few more years allows you to finally come into your own as an architect. Remember, a “young†architect is still defined as someone under 40, so it doesn’t all have to fall into place for quite awhile.
Remember also that school tends to hold “design talent†as the be all and end all of success. In a professional setting you don’t have to be a strong solo designer, as long as you understand the difference between good and poor design, you can be a strong team member as a critic and sounding board for other’s ideas, and get your own ideas in when you feel passionately about certain parts of the project.
I could say more, as I find architecture, after a very rough start, to be incredibly rewarding – but I have to get to work.
i understand there are different specialies once you're out of school. where you can direct your interests more. i just don't know if i want to be married to this education and the subsequent profession in order to get there.
how do i know if i'm just burnt out, or if i just don't have heart enough to go through with this???
I like it because it allowed me to easily switch careers. I am still doing architecture, but only for my (our) clients - no boss to report to. I spent the last year of grad school, and years after that, learning other things that would let me do a broad range of work and make more money on my own schedule. So that, I love.
The power is in your hands, you just have to shape it. Architecture helps prepare you for almost anything, but the finishing touches that help you succeed in a specific occupation are up to you (from business to graphics to development to Hollywood).
I don't like the debt I have or the many, many years it took to get through school, but I wouldn't trade my education for anything. Well, maybe I would for one or two things ;-)
snsquared, how much longer do you have? A year, two? Do you have a BArch, or do you need the M to get licensed?
What do you do in school or out of it that does give you joy? My dad always said to find something to do that you enjoy, because then you get paid every day to do your hobby. For me, that's architecture.
And you don't have to be married to architecture forever. Once I got the damn license, I felt I could then leave and do whatever I want. So far nothing has grabbed me, but I know that architecture (and whatever undergrad background you might have) prepares you for all kinds of work. I have a classmate who got a degree in social work, one who does set design, web design, freelance writing...
for me, it's the faith that architecure can inspire. that simple objects, both tangible and intangible can be greater than the sum of their parts. simply, architecture is manifested emotion.
Things get really good when the house is paid off ( the one you designed for yourself), you have your own firm, a couple of staff, wife works part time, and the kids are in school with university paid for. and you take projects you want. You like the idea, you like the client, the client respects your skill and experience and you get paid for it, sometimes more than others but it doesn't define why you do it. It comes from a desire to do it because after everything thing else its what you enjoy.
I just got back from a holiday with some friends in Maui, and our friends just couldn't fathom why I was dying to get back to the office. He has his own company but just doesn't love what he does. I totally got bored in Hawaii ( we went cause its warm and the kids like the beach ) but I love doing what I do and that is what it should be about at the end of the day. The money and recognition will come if that's important.
I'm reminded of a college professor who said being an architect is great because "we get paid to draw lines." Very simplistic but holds true to a greater extent. I'm paid to make something out of nothing and I love that.
Even if you are having second thoughts I'd still encourage your to finish out your degree. That alone is a great accomplishment and by no means requires you to take the traditional architecture career path.
Graduated 1989, registered 1994, opened own office 1994 (desk in the corner of my bedroom), home office 1994-2001, bought office space 2001-present.
Generally had a few opportunities and just jumped in, I worked in big offices didn't like'em, Like being own boss, not rich, won't ever be. but got the basics covered. The rest is cream.... just my personal philosophy. Enjoy life, work is my hobbie, when not skiing, trail running or biking.
1. Almost always tangible results from your work. There is a building at the end of the rainbow.
2. When done well you learn from every project you design. A church - learn about the faith of the client. A hotel - learn about hospitality. A school - learn about education. A marine center – learn about the sea. An arena – learn about the sport.
3. You also have every opportunity to learn about the place you designing for. The street, neighborhood, city, state, region, country, etc.
4. You get paid to essentially to draw.
5. Every day something different, I’ve been hard at this for fifteen years and every damn day is different.
6. Money can be very good if you work hard and catch the right breaks.
7. You meet many people in your work. Politicians, JV firms from around the country, clients, boards and committees, contractors and subcontractors, etc.
8. Long hours and lot’s of stress come with all of the above so must have a significant other that shares in your passion (or at least understands it and wants time to themselves).
9. What other job allows you to write contracts in the morning, meet with contractors in the afternoon, and design with a glass of wine in the evening. Of course that is the best of them. There’s also meeting with banks, building officials, and pissed-off clients.
it's a love/hate thing for me so far. don't quit yet if you are only in first year MArch. I am three years out of school, and have thought of quitting SOO many times. Then comes a moment where I am proud and rewarded and I remember what I am doing in this profession and it all makes sense. I have no doubt that it only gets better from here. (Today was a good day, ask me tomorrow and I might decide no way in hell I am going to do this)
wow. some really helpful feedback. thanks for sharing everyone....
can't say that the 'chicks' are too enticing being that i'm already a newlywed female :) , nor is making a lot of money (if that happens along the way, that's cool, but it's not an ambition)...
but the quality of life, is really important to me, and several of you have touched on that and added some really great insights from personal experience.
Hmm, I too have my own office but I definitely don't see it as all play - it's HARD HARD work. For me anyway. I ask myself all the time whether it's worth it, whether I should stay in the profession, go back and work for someone else, move to a different country, go back to school... most of the time I think it's procrastination.
I do love architecture - it can be incredibly beautiful, wondrous, and fascinating. It also serves basic needs. But as a profession it is also very frustrating. I want to see myself as an artist - the business doesn't necessarilly work that way. The aspects of architecture that I think are beautiful and sublime can't be reached with most projects that are within my realm, the more mundane helping people figure out how to do things efficiently can be rewarding but also boring and excrutiating.
So I'm really not sure... I loved school though - and if you already don't like it in school it could be a sign it's not for you - I got a master in philosophy before I went into architecture and I knew that I wasn't cut out to be a philosophy professor so I switched "careers". I would recommend finishing school, but really explore your options before committing yourself to a career that may not turn out to be rewarding for you.
R.A. Randolph makes me think of another good point, you can still love architecture without being an architect. Architecture makes a great hobby - visiting and photographing buildings, reading, etc.
I have often thought I could morph the old saying "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life" to "Do what you love and you will soon dislike it".
Trying to anwer your questions snsquared: All in all, I'd say architects do less to help people than doctors, teachers, social workers etc. Most people don't care about architecture. I think they care if it is bad, but mostly they just don't want to be offended by thier surroundings. Therefore "good" architecture is often unnoticed. But that helps people nontheless. As far as your concerns with the hours and imbalance, I do think it gets better in practice, till you own your business I suppose (I'm just a peon, don't know about this) plus you are getting paid. Also in school you don't have very many parameters (like budgets, codes, clearances, gravity, schedules, school boards, committees, market conditions, did I mention budgets?, stubborn engineers who only care about ducts, and you can fudge a lot in school, just working on what you are interested in and pretending the rest falls into place for you. In practice you have to make it work. All of it. I tell that to my job shadows when we are out at the site, and I think it hits home with them, not that I am trying to scare them. Architecture is more problem solving and tough decision making than art and culture. It is art and culture too though. I happen to enjoy problem solving as much as art, do you?
You also need savvy, lots of it, which I am working on.
R.A.Rudolph brings up a subtle aspect to the profession, Architect ..artist or builder. Clearly the answer is both. However I know the pain of trying to sell some beautiful ideas to a client and have the builder hack the shit out of it. The artist in me suffers somewhat but I do generally consider myself to be more of a builder and completely enjoy the pitfalls, pain and delight in the process.
I would be the first to admit that I don't bleed for my work, as a prof of mine once suggested as I am too busy and look to try and do better next time. Not the attitude to have when working at certain scales but where my firm is at I can still hold to that philosophy. It really helps when you can work with good people particularly on the construction side and I guess I am very fortunate in that many of the people who build for us are more artists than nail-bangers.
Whistler, thanks for the thoughts. We actually do design/build, and maybe that makes it even more frustrating, because I know what we are collectively capable of (my husband and his best friend head up the construction side) and just as we have to spend a lot of time designing stuff that doesn't match my aspirations, they have to build it.
Both my husband and I love to problem solve in addition to create, if not we wouldn't have even made it out the door with our company. Sometimes it feels pretty good, when we come up with a decent solution that makes the clients happy, but a lot of the time I find it very frustrating. I'm the first to admit I am a demanding person and have extremely high expectations and very particular ideas about design - the difficulty is that the average client's perspective and wants (even young hip entertainment industry people) are so far from ours that the compromise we reach is often disappointing (for us). Budgets are a huge issue, as are expectations of workmanship, the time it takes to design and build, and just plain personal taste.
I am the kind of person to look at a Japanese monastery garden and be depressed that I can't work on something of similar intricacy and scale -so it may be that I'm just out of whack. But design oriented architecture schools tend to nurture personalities like mine - thus the throngs of frustrated and generally unhappy grads... I am not making any conclusions at this point, and maybe I'll feel different if we manage to stay in business as long as you have :-)
why be an architect? Because you'd be miserable being anything but. If that weren't true, you wouldn't be slaving over the drawing board/pc at school or work long hours, when everyone from a 9 -5 has already returned home to their wife/hubby & kids. It a strange way, like watching a train wreck it gives you joy despite
Sn
I do hope the Best for you.
I hope you married Rich.
So you can have Kids and take the time to be with them.
I have alot of money.
I Did not make This money at an Architects Firm.
I have Enough to quit, to retire today and I am only 40.
But I still bang out this Shit day after day.
I was here till 10 last night in at 6.
My boy is 16 months old, I see him on the weekends.
Time is what I Need Not More Money.
i guess my question is partly; granted, we enjoy architecture and get fulfillment out of the practice, but is it possible to not work til 10pm and be back again at 6am? i realize certain projects and deadlines require this. but on a regular basis, i would most definitely be unhappy being away from my family that much. i do want to do something i enjoy, i just have no desire to be overtaken by my occupation. i guess my woes are coming now because my life is alllll about architecture and for the 4 hours a day that it's not, i'm sleeping. if it's just a school thing, that's manageable, but if i am expected to be this way in practice, i think that's unhealthy. are there companies out there that promote balance? go home at 6pm, be with your family? is that non-compatible with architecture?
Snsquared, my two cents...and I do want to hear 3d's take also!
My firm pays overtime (1.5) for any over 40 per week. Principals and Associates are salaried. We encourage overtime and pay for it. We also bonus to give back to our people (not uncle sam) based on that effort AND ability.
If you can get all your work done in 40 hours that's great and you will never be penalized for it.
However, no matter what your chosen profession, to be successful there is a lot of hard work necessary. I don't care if you run a tire business or an architectural firm.
Sure there are a lot of firms that promote time for your home needs. We help our people in many different ways. Sometimes money, sometimes time off, sometimes a push, sometime by backing off. Running a professional organization is all about your people and their productivity. Many architects are very weak with regard this aspect of our profession.
Not everyone is cut out (or even needs to be) to bust their ass 24, 7, 365 and everyone who works for us is important to our success - NO EXCEPTIONS.
There are many mid-sized and small firms just like us. Just takes looking in the right places.
Many star firms (from my experience) do not have that cultural mind-set. There are exceptions of course.
i think that's what i was looking for. yes, there are companies out there that are aware of quality of life. hard work is always excpected, and at times an extra push (time put in) is required, but also aknowledged and rewarded at the same time.
i'm coming out of a production background. the effort and hours extended were relentlessly above and beyond, company wide....but people don't last and stay productive, fresh, creative under those circumstances. especially because we were all salaried and overtime/bonuses were never extended from the company.
so my hope is restored. i'd much rather work for a quality mid to small sized firm, bust my butt, and enjoy life rather than work for a high profile company and be miserable (keeping in mind there are exceptions in all categories).
...All I know is that the ladies love 'the architect'. However, I wish I had picked almost anything else in undergrad...and feel foolish for doing an MARCH.
Law school...medical school...investment banking (business). All rewarding in their own right, and you see some actual coin. Shit, I’m smarter than most of my friends, they envy my dedication (and title), but I’d kill for one of their paychecks.
amen
my buddy gets paid about 3 times more than me, same age, but he couldnt design his way out of a shoe box, whatever that means.
anyone seen 'high fidelity'?
top five reasons why architecture is the hotness? or does this deserve a new thread?
1. whenever anyone asks me what i do, i am proud to say 'architect.'
(seems to get the same response of 'wow, so you can design my house?' just a small price to pay for the title)
2. you dont stop learnin stuff good til your dead
3. there is always room to improve
4. always someone/thing new to read/study
5. like graspin said before, the girlie girls love it
(dont burst my bubble, that is the reason that keeps me warm at night)
yeh, guys are really turned off when I tell them I'm an architect. wierd how that goes. They get so intimidated. They won't talk to me anymore. It's OK (I'm married) so I laugh.
i guess its safer for the female of the species to keep to her own kind, women designers are very attractive, especially when their skills are stronger than mine.
which is always.
snsquared:
"would you say you live to work, or that you work to live?"
Non of the above...
For me there is no separation between life and work.
I don't think it's possible to be an architect from 9 to 5, than you are someone who works in an architecture firm, not an architect.
BEING an architect means 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
You don't need a degree in architecture to be an architect, people like Mies or Rietveld weren't educated as architects, they 'just' were architects.
To be or not to be...that's the question.
here is the thing..
a... you learn till you die.. you'll never know what you you would like - but you are still smarter than everybody else.
b... you know about design - you're cooler than everybody else
c...you make a building out of nothing??? that's genius..!!
I guess I just work in an architecture firm. I hate work, and I think it (work) has very little to do with architecture. I just produce, produce, produce.
..." i don't see buildings coming from you." (seinfeld is still the best)
thread:
architecture is the best , what other profession in the world can you procrastinate for 6 months, work 4 days straight through, and leave you and your client wonderfully impressed?
trace, please xplain... curious -
>>I spent the last year of grad school, and years after that, learning other things that would let me do a broad range of work and make more money on my own schedule.
can someone who loves being an architect tell me why?
trying to survive the March....wondering if it's all going to be worthwhile in the end. can somone give me something to go on? i'm not sure if i'm cut out for this....
what is meaningful and purposeful about being an architect? how do we help people? would you say you live to work, or that you work to live? is a practicing architect as out of balance as an architecture student, or are parameters on how many hours spent in a studio/day all of a sudden introduced in the 'real world'......
Being an architect means having the amazing ability to almost anything you want with it. If you want to help people it is there. Unfortunately if you just want to burn new garbage cans with laser cutters, that is there too, but all of the insane work of school prepares you to make a difference in the world if you are up for it. That to is hard work, but you can make a real, physical impact on the world around you. I'm doing it and I think it's worth it......Make your work about something besides form and it becomes very worthwhile.
This insidious occupation is one of dichotomous expression.
With perseverance you will grow to love it and hate both at the same time with a passion and indifference.
To quote a famous Architectural mentor Whitney Houston from The Greatest Love of All
I believe the children are our are future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be
Everybody searching for a hero
People need someone to look up to
I never found anyone who fulfill my needs
A lonely place to be
So I learned to depend on me.
The real world is the one in which Architecture makes a difference. Academia is for those who like to chat about the difference.
First of all, I wish I could remember which hipster author referred to the "state of universal self-loathing that is graduate school". Not that I didn’t love every minute of my MArch, but it is also amazing how the world clears up a few years out of school. After the first brutal years, that is, when you’re barely making enough money to get by while drawing bathroom elevations for 60 hours/week.
The purposeful social aspect of being an architect depends a lot on what kind of work you do. I do a lot of work with churches and non-profit groups, which means working with building committees made up of lay people who have never gone through the building process in any way before. Working with committees is extremely demanding, full of petty politics, usually involves after-hours meetings, never has enough budget, and requires immense patience to build consensus about what is to be built. And yet, it is incredibly fulfilling work. Getting something built that a group has collectively dreamed of for years is as rewarding a job as one could ask for.
School is out of balance because you have so much time to think about issues that cause imbalance. A few years in the real world teach you to worry about the significant things, then a few more years in the profession introduce you to the more fun and interesting side of architecture – not just bathroom elevations - then a few more years allows you to finally come into your own as an architect. Remember, a “young†architect is still defined as someone under 40, so it doesn’t all have to fall into place for quite awhile.
Remember also that school tends to hold “design talent†as the be all and end all of success. In a professional setting you don’t have to be a strong solo designer, as long as you understand the difference between good and poor design, you can be a strong team member as a critic and sounding board for other’s ideas, and get your own ideas in when you feel passionately about certain parts of the project.
I could say more, as I find architecture, after a very rough start, to be incredibly rewarding – but I have to get to work.
i understand there are different specialies once you're out of school. where you can direct your interests more. i just don't know if i want to be married to this education and the subsequent profession in order to get there.
how do i know if i'm just burnt out, or if i just don't have heart enough to go through with this???
I like it because it allowed me to easily switch careers. I am still doing architecture, but only for my (our) clients - no boss to report to. I spent the last year of grad school, and years after that, learning other things that would let me do a broad range of work and make more money on my own schedule. So that, I love.
The power is in your hands, you just have to shape it. Architecture helps prepare you for almost anything, but the finishing touches that help you succeed in a specific occupation are up to you (from business to graphics to development to Hollywood).
I don't like the debt I have or the many, many years it took to get through school, but I wouldn't trade my education for anything. Well, maybe I would for one or two things ;-)
snsquared, how much longer do you have? A year, two? Do you have a BArch, or do you need the M to get licensed?
What do you do in school or out of it that does give you joy? My dad always said to find something to do that you enjoy, because then you get paid every day to do your hobby. For me, that's architecture.
And you don't have to be married to architecture forever. Once I got the damn license, I felt I could then leave and do whatever I want. So far nothing has grabbed me, but I know that architecture (and whatever undergrad background you might have) prepares you for all kinds of work. I have a classmate who got a degree in social work, one who does set design, web design, freelance writing...
for me, it's the faith that architecure can inspire. that simple objects, both tangible and intangible can be greater than the sum of their parts. simply, architecture is manifested emotion.
Things get really good when the house is paid off ( the one you designed for yourself), you have your own firm, a couple of staff, wife works part time, and the kids are in school with university paid for. and you take projects you want. You like the idea, you like the client, the client respects your skill and experience and you get paid for it, sometimes more than others but it doesn't define why you do it. It comes from a desire to do it because after everything thing else its what you enjoy.
I just got back from a holiday with some friends in Maui, and our friends just couldn't fathom why I was dying to get back to the office. He has his own company but just doesn't love what he does. I totally got bored in Hawaii ( we went cause its warm and the kids like the beach ) but I love doing what I do and that is what it should be about at the end of the day. The money and recognition will come if that's important.
whistler - sounds like every architects dream. How long did it take you to start your own firm? Did you go at it alone?
I'm reminded of a college professor who said being an architect is great because "we get paid to draw lines." Very simplistic but holds true to a greater extent. I'm paid to make something out of nothing and I love that.
Even if you are having second thoughts I'd still encourage your to finish out your degree. That alone is a great accomplishment and by no means requires you to take the traditional architecture career path.
Graduated 1989, registered 1994, opened own office 1994 (desk in the corner of my bedroom), home office 1994-2001, bought office space 2001-present.
Generally had a few opportunities and just jumped in, I worked in big offices didn't like'em, Like being own boss, not rich, won't ever be. but got the basics covered. The rest is cream.... just my personal philosophy. Enjoy life, work is my hobbie, when not skiing, trail running or biking.
sounds like a nice ideal to strive for. Having your own business is worth a lot in itself, even if you still work too hard.
Great Question
The money is great!
But The Groupies Are Why I Love Architecture.
If I had To do it all over again.
I'd Be An Architect.
chicks dig architects...
right on whistler. thats what it is all about.
CAN"T BELIVE I HAVEN'T SEEN THESE!
1. Almost always tangible results from your work. There is a building at the end of the rainbow.
2. When done well you learn from every project you design. A church - learn about the faith of the client. A hotel - learn about hospitality. A school - learn about education. A marine center – learn about the sea. An arena – learn about the sport.
3. You also have every opportunity to learn about the place you designing for. The street, neighborhood, city, state, region, country, etc.
4. You get paid to essentially to draw.
5. Every day something different, I’ve been hard at this for fifteen years and every damn day is different.
6. Money can be very good if you work hard and catch the right breaks.
7. You meet many people in your work. Politicians, JV firms from around the country, clients, boards and committees, contractors and subcontractors, etc.
8. Long hours and lot’s of stress come with all of the above so must have a significant other that shares in your passion (or at least understands it and wants time to themselves).
9. What other job allows you to write contracts in the morning, meet with contractors in the afternoon, and design with a glass of wine in the evening. Of course that is the best of them. There’s also meeting with banks, building officials, and pissed-off clients.
it's a love/hate thing for me so far. don't quit yet if you are only in first year MArch. I am three years out of school, and have thought of quitting SOO many times. Then comes a moment where I am proud and rewarded and I remember what I am doing in this profession and it all makes sense. I have no doubt that it only gets better from here. (Today was a good day, ask me tomorrow and I might decide no way in hell I am going to do this)
wow. some really helpful feedback. thanks for sharing everyone....
can't say that the 'chicks' are too enticing being that i'm already a newlywed female :) , nor is making a lot of money (if that happens along the way, that's cool, but it's not an ambition)...
but the quality of life, is really important to me, and several of you have touched on that and added some really great insights from personal experience.
aside from chicks diggin' ya...
when you finally get to go on your own. work isn't work, its play.
i can't tell you how fast i get out of bed in the morning (except when i'm hungover). i just want to dive into the work.
Hmm, I too have my own office but I definitely don't see it as all play - it's HARD HARD work. For me anyway. I ask myself all the time whether it's worth it, whether I should stay in the profession, go back and work for someone else, move to a different country, go back to school... most of the time I think it's procrastination.
I do love architecture - it can be incredibly beautiful, wondrous, and fascinating. It also serves basic needs. But as a profession it is also very frustrating. I want to see myself as an artist - the business doesn't necessarilly work that way. The aspects of architecture that I think are beautiful and sublime can't be reached with most projects that are within my realm, the more mundane helping people figure out how to do things efficiently can be rewarding but also boring and excrutiating.
So I'm really not sure... I loved school though - and if you already don't like it in school it could be a sign it's not for you - I got a master in philosophy before I went into architecture and I knew that I wasn't cut out to be a philosophy professor so I switched "careers". I would recommend finishing school, but really explore your options before committing yourself to a career that may not turn out to be rewarding for you.
R.A. Randolph makes me think of another good point, you can still love architecture without being an architect. Architecture makes a great hobby - visiting and photographing buildings, reading, etc.
I have often thought I could morph the old saying "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life" to "Do what you love and you will soon dislike it".
Trying to anwer your questions snsquared: All in all, I'd say architects do less to help people than doctors, teachers, social workers etc. Most people don't care about architecture. I think they care if it is bad, but mostly they just don't want to be offended by thier surroundings. Therefore "good" architecture is often unnoticed. But that helps people nontheless. As far as your concerns with the hours and imbalance, I do think it gets better in practice, till you own your business I suppose (I'm just a peon, don't know about this) plus you are getting paid. Also in school you don't have very many parameters (like budgets, codes, clearances, gravity, schedules, school boards, committees, market conditions, did I mention budgets?, stubborn engineers who only care about ducts, and you can fudge a lot in school, just working on what you are interested in and pretending the rest falls into place for you. In practice you have to make it work. All of it. I tell that to my job shadows when we are out at the site, and I think it hits home with them, not that I am trying to scare them. Architecture is more problem solving and tough decision making than art and culture. It is art and culture too though. I happen to enjoy problem solving as much as art, do you?
You also need savvy, lots of it, which I am working on.
Well said straw!
R.A.Rudolph brings up a subtle aspect to the profession, Architect ..artist or builder. Clearly the answer is both. However I know the pain of trying to sell some beautiful ideas to a client and have the builder hack the shit out of it. The artist in me suffers somewhat but I do generally consider myself to be more of a builder and completely enjoy the pitfalls, pain and delight in the process.
I would be the first to admit that I don't bleed for my work, as a prof of mine once suggested as I am too busy and look to try and do better next time. Not the attitude to have when working at certain scales but where my firm is at I can still hold to that philosophy. It really helps when you can work with good people particularly on the construction side and I guess I am very fortunate in that many of the people who build for us are more artists than nail-bangers.
They make me look way better than I am.
Whistler, thanks for the thoughts. We actually do design/build, and maybe that makes it even more frustrating, because I know what we are collectively capable of (my husband and his best friend head up the construction side) and just as we have to spend a lot of time designing stuff that doesn't match my aspirations, they have to build it.
Both my husband and I love to problem solve in addition to create, if not we wouldn't have even made it out the door with our company. Sometimes it feels pretty good, when we come up with a decent solution that makes the clients happy, but a lot of the time I find it very frustrating. I'm the first to admit I am a demanding person and have extremely high expectations and very particular ideas about design - the difficulty is that the average client's perspective and wants (even young hip entertainment industry people) are so far from ours that the compromise we reach is often disappointing (for us). Budgets are a huge issue, as are expectations of workmanship, the time it takes to design and build, and just plain personal taste.
I am the kind of person to look at a Japanese monastery garden and be depressed that I can't work on something of similar intricacy and scale -so it may be that I'm just out of whack. But design oriented architecture schools tend to nurture personalities like mine - thus the throngs of frustrated and generally unhappy grads... I am not making any conclusions at this point, and maybe I'll feel different if we manage to stay in business as long as you have :-)
easy...
the girls, the glamour,the genius, the booze and the envy
why be an architect? Because you'd be miserable being anything but. If that weren't true, you wouldn't be slaving over the drawing board/pc at school or work long hours, when everyone from a 9 -5 has already returned home to their wife/hubby & kids. It a strange way, like watching a train wreck it gives you joy despite
Sn
I do hope the Best for you.
I hope you married Rich.
So you can have Kids and take the time to be with them.
I have alot of money.
I Did not make This money at an Architects Firm.
I have Enough to quit, to retire today and I am only 40.
But I still bang out this Shit day after day.
I was here till 10 last night in at 6.
My boy is 16 months old, I see him on the weekends.
Time is what I Need Not More Money.
stark3d,
i guess my question is partly; granted, we enjoy architecture and get fulfillment out of the practice, but is it possible to not work til 10pm and be back again at 6am? i realize certain projects and deadlines require this. but on a regular basis, i would most definitely be unhappy being away from my family that much. i do want to do something i enjoy, i just have no desire to be overtaken by my occupation. i guess my woes are coming now because my life is alllll about architecture and for the 4 hours a day that it's not, i'm sleeping. if it's just a school thing, that's manageable, but if i am expected to be this way in practice, i think that's unhealthy. are there companies out there that promote balance? go home at 6pm, be with your family? is that non-compatible with architecture?
Snsquared, my two cents...and I do want to hear 3d's take also!
My firm pays overtime (1.5) for any over 40 per week. Principals and Associates are salaried. We encourage overtime and pay for it. We also bonus to give back to our people (not uncle sam) based on that effort AND ability.
If you can get all your work done in 40 hours that's great and you will never be penalized for it.
However, no matter what your chosen profession, to be successful there is a lot of hard work necessary. I don't care if you run a tire business or an architectural firm.
Sure there are a lot of firms that promote time for your home needs. We help our people in many different ways. Sometimes money, sometimes time off, sometimes a push, sometime by backing off. Running a professional organization is all about your people and their productivity. Many architects are very weak with regard this aspect of our profession.
Not everyone is cut out (or even needs to be) to bust their ass 24, 7, 365 and everyone who works for us is important to our success - NO EXCEPTIONS.
There are many mid-sized and small firms just like us. Just takes looking in the right places.
Many star firms (from my experience) do not have that cultural mind-set. There are exceptions of course.
alpha,
i think that's what i was looking for. yes, there are companies out there that are aware of quality of life. hard work is always excpected, and at times an extra push (time put in) is required, but also aknowledged and rewarded at the same time.
i'm coming out of a production background. the effort and hours extended were relentlessly above and beyond, company wide....but people don't last and stay productive, fresh, creative under those circumstances. especially because we were all salaried and overtime/bonuses were never extended from the company.
so my hope is restored. i'd much rather work for a quality mid to small sized firm, bust my butt, and enjoy life rather than work for a high profile company and be miserable (keeping in mind there are exceptions in all categories).
I totally smell what libertybell is steppin' in.....I could not say it better...
...All I know is that the ladies love 'the architect'. However, I wish I had picked almost anything else in undergrad...and feel foolish for doing an MARCH.
Law school...medical school...investment banking (business). All rewarding in their own right, and you see some actual coin. Shit, I’m smarter than most of my friends, they envy my dedication (and title), but I’d kill for one of their paychecks.
amen
my buddy gets paid about 3 times more than me, same age, but he couldnt design his way out of a shoe box, whatever that means.
anyone seen 'high fidelity'?
top five reasons why architecture is the hotness? or does this deserve a new thread?
1. whenever anyone asks me what i do, i am proud to say 'architect.'
(seems to get the same response of 'wow, so you can design my house?' just a small price to pay for the title)
2. you dont stop learnin stuff good til your dead
3. there is always room to improve
4. always someone/thing new to read/study
5. like graspin said before, the girlie girls love it
(dont burst my bubble, that is the reason that keeps me warm at night)
yeh, guys are really turned off when I tell them I'm an architect. wierd how that goes. They get so intimidated. They won't talk to me anymore. It's OK (I'm married) so I laugh.
i guess its safer for the female of the species to keep to her own kind, women designers are very attractive, especially when their skills are stronger than mine.
which is always.
snsquared:
"would you say you live to work, or that you work to live?"
Non of the above...
For me there is no separation between life and work.
I don't think it's possible to be an architect from 9 to 5, than you are someone who works in an architecture firm, not an architect.
BEING an architect means 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
You don't need a degree in architecture to be an architect, people like Mies or Rietveld weren't educated as architects, they 'just' were architects.
To be or not to be...that's the question.
"I'm an architect"
"Oh really?! What do you design"
"Railroads"
"Railroads? I thought engineers designed railroads."
"They can."
here is the thing..
a... you learn till you die.. you'll never know what you you would like - but you are still smarter than everybody else.
b... you know about design - you're cooler than everybody else
c...you make a building out of nothing??? that's genius..!!
I guess I just work in an architecture firm. I hate work, and I think it (work) has very little to do with architecture. I just produce, produce, produce.
kakacabeza:
..." i don't see buildings coming from you." (seinfeld is still the best)
thread:
architecture is the best , what other profession in the world can you procrastinate for 6 months, work 4 days straight through, and leave you and your client wonderfully impressed?
can u tell me why u'd love to have sex.....
same reason
trace, please xplain... curious -
>>I spent the last year of grad school, and years after that, learning other things that would let me do a broad range of work and make more money on my own schedule.
is it really true that architects get girls? is that a common impression out there in the real world? haha.
wow, more benefits!
ieugenei... this is the first time i hear this.......
where did u come up with that??
let's just hope it's true lol
i dont know.. that's what they said in this post.
why do people in this site never communicate out of it.........like post mail or etc....
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