Don't hold your breath hoping that things will change. It looks more and more like this will be the norm at a fair majority of offices for a while as they realize they can get the work of 2 people out of 1 if they make that one person work 80+ hours a week. They know you probably have nowhere else to go so it's either deal with it or leave because they won't have a problem replacing you. This is the case for several of my friends who continually work 14 hour days, 7 days a week.

If you don't like it, quit. But good luck finding another paying gig.

a lot of offices don't look kindly on 'flex time' because it's too hard to track, too easy to take advantage of, and too hard to bridge across pay periods (if that happens). their business admin may just not be set up to accommodate it, even if they wanted to.

that's not to say that they're not being unfair - they are - but they may not be doing it just to be ornery.

this is usually a good thing to know before you take a job, so you're not surprised later. some firms set themselves up to accommodate flexible hours from the start and then have the flexibility to allow a lot of variation in schedules across the office. not that this can't be used to take advantage of you, also....

we actually discourage over-40 hours, but damn if our crew doesn't work after hours and weekends anyway. it makes it harder to assess the productivity/efficiency in a project, especially if they opt to not record those hours.

note to interns: if you do work 'on your own time', whether it's because you think you're helping the office or whatever, you're hurting both the office and yourself. it makes it impossible for management to know how long something should take if previous projects' logged time is an inaccurate reflection of the actual time expended. i.e., you're almost guaranteeing nights and weekends for yourself in the future.

I think that all those that have jobs now should refuse to work ridiculous hours and force their employers to realize that they are understaffed. As long as people are willing to do slave labor then why should their boss actually hire anyone else.

I am working at the moment, but I wasn't for a long time and I refuse to work ridiculous hours for minimual pay.. There are plenty of people out there that need jobs!

.....good thing for overtime.

read the office policies before you sign up. if you're salary you don't get OT.
if you try to fight it, you'll lose.
be efficient, get your stuff done and leave. don't feel obliged to hang around just because others do.

learn about salaries... i was on salary at an office (non-arch but related) but they still paid 1.5 over time when needed and we worked 40hr weeks.... it was a nice setup actually

you mean you guys have so much work that you get to work WEEKENDS??!

it's probably an understaffed office that might be trying to bump up profits to get out of the red.... maybe.... but then again,

I wonder if the admin. person you asked was there all those weekends. If not I would say you asked the wrong person about time off - the PM should have looked out for his/her team before taking off on vacation.

I'm not American, so I'm making an assumption here, you should be able to contact your local AIA office (it applies where I am). Failing that if there is a community employees rights organisation. The latter is a big step and can be quite damning for companies especially if they are involved with work for the state - this much I know should apply universally.

I have long been told by employers that it was just part of the job, and to suck it up buttercup. Not that I agree.

At our office most employees are on salaries. There are some temp positions but mostly we are on salaries.

Last year, couple of people that got laid off came back and filed a lawsuit for unpaid overtime over the time period they were employed at the firm.....they won. I'm not really sure how that stuff works, but it worked out for them.

Even though our office policy was to get comp time, an eye for an eye, and was written as such in the employee manual, the policy was not honored by the local principal, so we tended to take our comp time when the he wasn't around, which wasn't hard. I made sure I came out even by the time I got laid off so I wouldn't have to sue. :)

Unfortunately, the business model of most architectural firms is to make their employees work as hard as possible, and overlook the overtime. That's how most smaller companies stay in business.

Anything else (like the office system not being able to handle overtime etc.) is just an excuse. It does not take a f*ing rocket scientist to figure out how to make interns track hours. There are tons of ways and softwares for that purpose.

Btw, I am at work at 11:30 AM on a saturday, and hating life!

I can't believe you are asking this question. Are you just out of school or something? Uncompensated overtime isn't new or different for any business...

Fact Sheet #17D: Exemption for Professional Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)

This fact sheet provides general information on the exemption from minimum wage and overtime pay provided by Section 13(a)(1) of the Fair Labor Standards Act as defined by Regulations, 29 CFR Part 541.

The FLSA requires that most employees in the United States be paid at least the federal minimum wage for all hours worked and overtime pay at time and one-half the regular rate of pay for all hours worked over 40 hours in a workweek.

However, Section 13(a)(1) of the FLSA provides an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for employees employed as bona fide executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees. Section 13(a)(1) and Section 13(a)(17) also exempt certain computer employees. To qualify for exemption, employees generally must meet certain tests regarding their job duties and be paid on a salary basis at not less than $455 per week. Job titles do not determine exempt status. In order for an exemption to apply, an employee’s specific job duties and salary must meet all the requirements of the Department’s regulations.

The specific requirements for exemption as a bona fide professional employee are summarized below. There are two general types of exempt professional employees: learned professionals and creative professionals.

See other fact sheets in this series for more information on the exemptions for executive, administrative, computer and outside sales employees, and for more information on the salary basis requirement.

Learned Professional Exemption

To qualify for the learned professional employee exemption, all of the following tests must be met:

* The employee must be compensated on a salary or fee basis (as defined in the regulations) at a rate not less than $455 per week;
* The employee’s primary duty must be the performance of work requiring advanced knowledge, defined as work which is predominantly intellectual in character and which includes work requiring the consistent exercise of discretion and judgment;
* The advanced knowledge must be in a field of science or learning; and
* The advanced knowledge must be customarily acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction.

you mind translating that for a non-native speaker?

I think there is a distinction of your registered and not registered. You are a professional if your registered, but if your not then I would tend to belive your employer is required to pay you overtime. I once worked where this became an issue and well the firm did end up paying unregistered individuals for overtime and I believe they also paid a fine to the Feds.

I think working both days of the weekend is tough and actually backfires in a lot of ways. I know its the norm at a fair amount of practices, but its really "stupid" from a number of management perspectives. Some things do take time in architecture, hence sometimes you need to stay late or work the entire weekend, but when you look at how consistently it happens at some firms....well, it has nothing to do with design

I don't expect it to change anytime soon, architects, once you get behind the cultish eye wear, are really conservative, old-school types and we've been brainwashed to think that working all the time leads to a better product.

I also think its hypocritical to stand as imporant cultural figures when we spend all our times at a desk or in an office. Ultimately, what the hell do we know? if we are not among the cities, people we profess to serve. But maybe thats another strange contradiction of the profession.

You do have to suck it up to work for a lot of firms or to make it to a certain point in this profession, and I really don't think its any easier for other professions as well.....nonetheless, I think the schools could start by addressing the cultish, slave-like attitude that is developed in the studio. at some point there is diminishing returns to effort

I agree with Jayness.

Not only do you need to be "among the people," you need to do a fair amount of selling as well. And how can you meet potential clients if you're working 7 days a week, 60 hours a week?

Not to mention, no one works well when they are stressed out and over worked. Productivity has to be astoundingly low.

I think there's a possibility though with competition and job security that people are willing to make the time sacrifice in order to stay in their positions rather than telling their bosses to fuck themselves.

If I had a job, I'd certainly work as hard as possible to not get fired.

overtime should be common sense. Sometimes you just have to do it. Obviously it can be abused but it comes with being a profesional. Those that manage to do it all in 40 hours week in week out I comend you, you are the worlds most efficient architects.

Obviously a little overtime here and there is not really the issue. I think it's safe to say that almost every office, regardless of how efficient and time-managed, occasionally has a week or two where things just come up and the office has to pull together to meet a deadline. Usually the office will be good enough to compensate in some way - OT pay, a day off, whatever - but not all offices will.

The discussion point here is really about offices that have just made it standard practice to work their employees 12+ hour days, 6-7 days a week. These are the offices that knowingly should hire another employee but know they can just squeeze the work out of the staff they already have without having to pay overtime because they know their staff have nowhere else to go. These are the offices that I look forward to seeing crumble once the economy resurfaces and all their employees jump ship to somewhere else.

Agreed with Jayness/Unicorn Slaughter/.._. .._ _._. _._ in principle (beyond questioning the motives of the owners) ... shouldn't OT be more of an emergency thing, as opposed to a process you *design into your system*? It's important to have margins of error, for when actual emergencies do arise.

Once you're established, shouldn't a firm be set up so that they can be at least somewhat profitable using a reasonable work week? If everyone needs to work a week and a half every week to stay ahead, there should be a serious re-evaluation of the business model. As an employee, I would be *extremely* concerned for the future of my firm if it were only profitable through everyone working excessive hours.

Of course, there are exceptions. If there's profit-sharing and everyone wants to work that hard for extra profit (beyond the assumed profitable 40-hour work week), that's good! A new startup trying to get off the ground may have to go through this period too (or anyone dealing with a significant learning curve, who is being paid with the expectation of future work output as opposed to present work output)

Beyond these, it seems (from the standpoint of the firm that sets up the systems and pay scales) as though the options are either charging more or doing the same work faster (or lowering your overhead). Charging too little for work up front (undercutting) means that you are paying yourself far too much (as your hours are actually worth less, but you are making up for it in sheer volume). Thus, salaries should be adjusted; otherwise, you're on an unsustainable death spiral of low fees and high costs.

I'd be interested to hear the rationale behind these things from the people who have had to implement insane working hours to maintain profitability. Not having run a firm myself, I'd like to hear other voices.