FP - some E&O insurers still write "project policies" that cover the entire design team on a specific project. However, these policies tend to be very expensive - you would need to be sure your client will pick up the premium cost.

My advice to you is make contact with an insurance agent in NYC who specializes in E&O insurance ... insurance is such an arcane and complex matter that you really need someone knowledgeable in the business to help you explore your options.

You might want to start here: PLAN

Is this "small residential" as in one client doing work on their own house? Or as in a triplex for a developer?

For the former, I honestly think you won't need it. The contact with the client should be such a personal relationship that you BOTH will be better served just working things out fairly.

If you decide you really do need it: I get my E&O through State Farm, who just got into the specialty products insurance world. They also hold my homeowner's and life insurance, so I just worked with my regular agent who is really good about dealing with all the paperwork for me. I should note, the only reason I have insurance is I took on a job for the City that required it - until then, my partner and I (in practice four years, him 8 years before me) never had insurance. Hen the contract with the City is over, I may let it lapse.


Are you registered?

Thanks Distant and LB.

Yes, I'm a registered architect. This job is in a very strict residential co-op building in Manhattan. It is a moonlighting gig which I am basically doing as a favor for some close friends, and I'm not getting paid much. It started as a very small bathroom renovation that appeared to be very straightforward...But now I have concern about the work involved. I found out the base building requires all tenants to replace all plumbing branch lines to existing risers even if they're just replacing fixtures in the same location. Then I found out the job will require complete asbestos abatement. Then I found out the floor slabs aren't comprised of what the super told me they were (they are lightweight concrete slabs which may require some chopping and structural modification just to install the new toilet piping), and there is also concern that installing the new piping may affect neighbors below, so there may be general liability issues if anything goes wrong.

I'm all for taking risk (as I've done on a few projects before this one), but I think it would be unwise to proceed without insurance here, even though everything will most likely be fine. Woke up at 4am worrying about it.

Thanks for the recommendations. If anyone else has any other options I'd love to hear them.

Ah, that's much more complex. I wonder if there is a way to get insurance only for claims by other parties (tenants below) against you or your clients, not for your clients to make claims against you? Or maybe the clients' homeowners' policy would cover damage to tenants below?

It obviously has the potential to become a huge mess. Anyone in NYC have any insight based on a similar situation?

FP, is the hassle really worth it?

Sounds like major costs for your client to upgrade everyone's bathroom just to fix their own. And asbestos. Is this in the co-op's interest and are they offering you a contract for the whole job?

The two projects I worked on in NY that were in CO OP buildings made me not want to work on CO OP projects ever again.

It is first VERY VERY VERY VERY important to make sure that your client has a good relationship with the board because if not they will reject the plans you submit for your client again....and again...and again...and again. Everything about the project was fine with no impact to anyone else...they just didn't like our client and wanted to make life hard on him (which in turn made things hard for us).

LB...Good suggestion...I'll need to talk to insurance providers about alternative methods to reduce my insurance costs. Problem is anyone can sue anyone. And in New York, that often happens.

Aceclubs...perhaps I was unclear. We are not renovating any other neighbor's spaces, but may need access to OUR piping in THEIR ceilings, which means we may need to open up their ceilings for access, then patch when we're done. Not unheard of, but increases general liability.

Tagalong...Yes, I know coops are often merciless. I've had good and bad experiences. I just completed a job where the coop was very accommodating and pleasant, and approved the drawings in less than a week. But this new job is a complete nightmare. A few contractors have complained about their building rules, which prohibit some pretty standard methods of construction: they don't even allow the use of power tools. I kid you not. Luckily, the client does have a good relationship with the building management, so hopefully that will help.

Make sure that the building will allow you to chop the structural slab...many building's with this sort of construction in NYC don't allow you to chop the slab. This will be spelled out in the building's alteration agreement.

raise the bathroom floor up and run pipes there....does it have to be ADA?...

other than that, sounds like a lot of trouble just for a bathroom...seriously..... and usually since it's a friend, hope that relationship doesn't turn sour in the end

Brklyntotfc: Yes, the client is confirming this with the building management. They previously told us it would not be a problem, but a few contractors who've worked in the building just told us they never allowed anyone to chop concrete, even to accommodate electrical conduit. The building management seems sleazy.

Zug: Yes, it needs to be ADA. So I can't raise the floor. The clients are good people, and I have been warning them about all the unforeseen issues that may arise, just so they're prepared. I am less worried about our friendship than I am with the possibility that the renovation will turn into change order central, above and beyond their financial means.

Ugh, condo renovations are such legal cans of worms. I don't know about the insurance thing, but are you SURE you need to abate? I thought that if it's private (residential) property you can make your own decision on that -- no? Is it just the pipe insulation, or are there floor or ceiling adhesive tiles involved? If it's floor/ceiling tiles, can you just seal them instead of abating them? That's an acceptable alternate here in city of chicago (depending on detailing).

Most E&O policies will specifically exclude coverage for hazardous materials - the contract for the asbestos work should be between the Owner and the abatement contractor, with no involvement on your part.

You will have a hard time finding a project policy for this one - the risks are so out of proportion to the fee, and the policies are hard to get once the project is under way.

My suggestion would be to put your work under the general contractor's umbrella, as a design-build. (The drawings you have done so far would be the "scope document" and the contractor's bid would include an allowance for you to develop them into construction documents)

That way you are protected by his insurance policy. Most of the issues you mention relate to construction issues more than design - i.e. leaking pipes, improper concrete demo. You will still be named in any lawsuit (an RA can't avoid that) but contractor's policy will mount the defense. Requires a lawyer who knows the ins and outs to help you with the contract, though.

spruce is correct about the exclusion for hazardous materials and his/her advice is right on in that regard. However, the suggestion to work under the contractor's umbrella is probably not as workable. To my knowledge (and I have some experience with this), contractor's insurance policies specifically exclude coverage for design services. They do this to prevent (or at least discourage) exactly the type of thing spruce is recommending. There may be an exception out there, but I am not aware of it.