You can always ask for a review - a progress report, so to speak. See what the management is thinking about. They'll get the point and if a raise isn't in the cards (maybe even if more from a firm perspective than you in particular) they should let you know.

I know we've held raises back but this has helped us avoid any layoffs. Could be a similar situation?

I forgot to mention that raises are always given, and I will most likely be getting a 4% raise, but I would like to be making over 60k and with the 4% raise I will be getting it will only bring me to the mid 50s. My question is how do I ask for a bigger raise, which I think is about a 20% increase.

Say please?

Soleil, from what you wrote, I think I have about the same level of experience as you. I would love to be making +60K, but given that there's only enough work for me to be working 28 hours per week at my current firm, I would be happy to take your job for around $50K/year for full time work. I would guess that many of the +20% of architects who are currently unemployed would also love to take your job for even less. What firm do you work for so I can drop off a resume?

I'm actually pretty interested in knowing what region/state of the US you're working in as well

Your salary now is pretty good for about 3 years of experience, especially in this tough times. I think they only reason they are keeping you there is because you are doing good work and not asking for more money. If you want to risk your position and put your career in jeopardy, then go ahead and ask. Even if they give you a raise, you will be on a red-list from now on, because you will be always expected to perform with superhuman ability, and just pray the company workload continues to increase...

Which area of the country are you working? Because I need to move there I guess. So far the best I have gotten with a Masters, 4 years of experience and a pretty wide software skill set is 38K.

That is an extraordinarily good salary for someone two years out of school. I have no idea if you should ask for a raise or not -- it all depends on personal situation & firm situation, and it would be impossible to advise you on that -- but I can say that from my experience working in multiple firms in two high-paying large cities, you are [/i]already[/i] about $5,000 above typical compensation for your level in a large city. And you are about to get a 3-4% raise, which is pretty decent, especially considering most firms seem to have cancelled either bonuses or raises or both this year, to avoid laying even more people off.

Sometimes desire for a big raise doesn't really correspond to actual cognizance of being underpaid at your level, but really just comes about because you've compared yourself to some other person and you're feeling cheated with respect to them. This could be a false apprehension. It's important to know what you are truly worth to the firm and to the market at large. Don't compare yourself to a single individual but rather try to zoom out and get a broad view of yourself within the firm and within your peers in the city at large. Arm yourself with more information than one person's self-admission of salary amount -- you might find that your feelings of being cheated are misguided. It's good to be proud of your work and know that you're doing a good job, and it's great to feel like you're being adequately valued for the work that you do -- and it would be a shame to mistakenly undercut those confident feelings just because of one other person's situation. It could easily be that that person is overpaid and you are right on target. In which case it won't be a great admission of your own character if you go running to the boss crying "she makes more than me and that's my basis for a bigger raise than you were already going to give me!"

On the other hand, if you do the research and find you truly are underpaid for the work you do (although the work you have described so far all sounds completely appropriate for your level), then by all means march in there and get yourself a raise. No one should be underpaid.

The AIA should have salary information for your city and there are lots of resources online. City-specific info is better than national; but as a general, national guide I recommend looking at Architect magazine's recent yearly salary surveys. They should be findable online.

Excellent post, mantaray.

i agree, LB...

as manta suggested, you're getting paid pretty well for your limited experience... i know a lot of talented people with 3 times as much experience as you who would be happy to be making $50-60K with the promise of 3-4% raises each year... also, asking for a 20% increase would be ridiculous in my mind... are you going to do 20% more work?

also, be careful comparing yourself to others... you don't know all of the details of their situation... and you could get yourself into trouble if you mention to your boss that you know that so-and-so makes more money than you as a lot of firms have rules against discussing salary...

i'll offer a cautionary tale... one of my good friends was the managing partner of a firm of about 20 people... he had a young intern that was 2-3 years out of school come to him and tell him that he thought that he was underpaid... my friend told him to name what salary he thought that he was worth and that they would pay him that and match that salary with the appropriate amount of responsibility... within a few weeks the guy was struggling to keep his head above water and within a few months he busted a deadline on a major project and then quit...

more money usually comes with more responsibility... be sure that you want (and can handle) that responsibility... there are a lot of things that more senior staff deal with that young interns aren't necessarily aware of... be sure that you know what you're getting yourself into if you ask for more money... especially in this economy.

I'll give you the same advice I gave a few years back (during the 'economic boom') on another similar thread. Ask for a review, be prepared to discuss your role the past few years and how your performance and responsibilities have improved and increased significantly, and ask them if there are any opportunities for a raise. Be clear that you enjoy working there, you value your experience there, and that you feel that the experience they've offered you has been valuable to your professional development. You have nothing to loose. Don't listen to anyone that says you're making good money now and you should count your blessings. That's pure bunk. Anyone who makes a salary above the depressingly meager average architect's salary has gotten to that point by being comfortable discussing salary, money, benefits and raises with their employers. And they know their own self worth. This does not change with varying economic situations no matter what everyone else on this site says. If the AIA says the mean salary in your area is $40K, then that should make you aim for $70k. Go for the high if you feel you're that good and valuable. And if your firm cannot offer the raise, ask for another review in 6 months, knowing that you have planted a seed in their minds that you feel you deserve a raise, that you're interested in mobility, and in improving your performance at the firm. Or you can ask for the 6 month review and additional vacation time or something else that is of value to you that may not include monetary gain right now. If you don't do it, then you can be sure that someone else will, and any raise you feel you deserve will first go the other more confident person who had the courage to make their self-worth known to the principals. After all, this is business, not charity...and your employers will appreciate that you have good business sense. Good luck, and I hope you don't wimp out just because a majority of architects in the US have no business sense whatsoever and apathetically accept as gospel their life of financial struggle and despair.

I know it's different worlds and everything, but it is still amazing how all of these top-ranking CEO's of financial companies are defending spending tens of millions of dollars each year on employees' bonuses because if they don't, then they will not be able to "attract talent" to their firms. While we find ourselves here discussing whether asking for an extra 5-6K a year in salary will cost someone his/her job. I mean, what a difference...

I don't disagree with your point, dynamo, but the fact remains we are in a period that eager potential employees are plentiful.

FP: And they know their own self worth. This does not change with varying economic situations no matter what everyone else on this site says....After all, this is business, not charity

If this is business, why would I give a raise to someone when I can easily replace him/her with someone with the same skills for $10k/year less?

This is what mantaray's post was suggesting: none of us can tell soleil what she should do, because we don't know her office's situation, the personality of her boss(es), how much work the firm has on the boards for the next year, etc. Learning the tenor of your firm and deciding what is appropriate to ask for, and how, is the sign of a good business sense, not blindly demanding a raise at a terrible time.

i wouldnt ask for a raise at this point of time... nor discuss it.... unless you have a plan B that you can fall back on just in case..... if anything, see if you can get a few fridays off or something.

i'll echo some of the previous comments and ask what region/city you're in? i'm curious.

also, beyond taking on the responsibilities of the "Arch. Designer II", where do you see yourself going with your contributions to the firm? being a couple years out of school, are you in an IDP/ARE concurrent state, how close are you to licensure, etc. etc.

to be honest, any firm, i don't care what part of the country you live in, that is paying you $50k+ to set up interior elevations, is paying you way too much. i know people running large projects that are not making that kind of money (and you do not even have a professional degree!). i think you should be happy to be making what you are. weird to be talking about salary inflation in this economy.

Id only ask for a raise if you are actively job seeking right now.

I agree with LB and mantaray. There's a gentle, polite, "generic" way of asking for a raise. But the only lesson earned would be something similar to sending thank-you notes after you receive gifts or have a formal party.

There's no way to know unless someone knows her or works in her office.

Lastly, I'd say to be on the lookout for employment elsewhere because I've read quite enough employment articles to know that this backfires very quickly and easily.

well put, jafidler and Orochi. maybe soleil's firm is somehow insulated from the current bust, and if the stated regular pay increases are true, then maybe this is the case...but as jafidler said, it is weird to be talking about salary increases.

but this may be an incredibly unique situation where the conventional wisdom does not apply; speaking as someone with similar experience and dissimilar compensation to the poster. i agree with Orochi and others here; being such a unique situation, it is impossible to determine if asking for a raise makes any sense.

good luck and i hope it works out for you, whatever you decide.

LB...when did I suggest that Soleil 'blindly' demand a raise? I'm not sure where you picked that up in my post. I said, "ask them if there are any opportunities for a raise," and if not, then "ask for another review in 6 months." How is that 'blindly demanding a raise?" Soleil also said the firm is doing fine as far as work load is concerned, so why are you projecting the rest of the world's economic crisis on her firm? It's not a "terrible time" if the firm is doing fine.

Soleil explained her position very clearly, her performance, her increased responsibilities, who she replaced (including some salary info), and how her bosses have been full of praise for her performance to date. She took on more responsibility, stepped up to the challenge, and has proven herself an asset to the firm. It sounds to me if anyone is a candidate to blow away the standard 4% raise that her firms offers, it is her. There certainly was no intent to disparage Mantaray's comments. In all honesty, I was responding more to the other dismissive comments, not his/hers.

There is absolutely no harm in discussing what she thinks her self-worth is with the principals. In my opinion, that is good business sense, and that is how a good businessperson maneuvers their way to a position of power...gaining more responsibility and, yes, more money. It doesn't mean they will give it to her. In fact, if they are good businesspeople they will NOT give it to her because it reduces their own net gain. But it makes clear to them that she is not a doormat like so many other architects, that she has dignity, and that perhaps they SHOULD invest in her because she has invested significantly to their firm. In my experience, this type of conversation is beneficial to everyone involved, not just her.

Regarding you not wanting to give a raise to someone whom you can replace with someone with the same skill set for less $$$...I totally agree with you, but that's not what appears to be happening here. Soleil seems to be doing more for less, and it is clear that she is taking on responsibilities that were previously performed by people in higher positions with higher wages. From everything she said (and I can only respond based on what she said), she has a good case...and it would be irresponsible of her (as far as her own career is concerned) to not have a professional and honest conversation about it with her boss(es). She asked for advice, and this was mine. She can take it or leave it.

Well, I can see how you would be bummed out. After 2 years of experiance I would be asking for $70,000 min. You are worth it to the company.

Good luck.

before even thinking about setting up a performance review meeting, do some calculating:
what is your billable rate?
what is the % time billable?
what is the firms (estimated) billing ratio?
does your billable rate support your wished for salary?

then you know what income stream you bring to the office and if there is room for a raise (that exceeds the annual increase in the billable rate). Of course this doesn't work if you're spending time in marketing or other 'overhead' work.

good advice, barry, and also a good lesson in professional practice.

FP - the problem for me isn't that they're asking for a raise in a down market, it's the percentage leap they're asking for. if you don't see the typical 3-4%, by all means ask why.

problem comes in that you can put the principals into a corner with very few ways out. if they don't feel like you're worth 20% more than you're currently making (and the salary in question seems extremely high for the level of work being done), then what are their choices? yes or no are two answers, but the no could certainly backfire long term.

all of this sort of supports my initial post: ask for a review and, during that review, try to get the principal to communicate the firm's position and intentions to you.

we try to keep our staff well-informed about the state of things, believing that open communication is essential in keeping the attitudes of the staff good/positive. even if we are having difficulties, if they know it, they're usually glad to support whatever needs to happen. then when things are good, they know that too.

if soleil shows interest in the firm and the future, it's much more positive to the principal than a self-interested request for a raise, oblivious to any other consideration the firm may have.

'i'd like to be making over $_' sounds a little greedy to me. (i mean, i'd like to be making over $200k, for what it's worth.) especially in light of the amount of experience described.

but it also sounds like, yes, maybe the commensurate responsibilities are already landing on soleil's shoulders.

tread lightly, be thoughtful/considerate of the firm's big picture, and you should be able to determine a little better what you're worth. ...and barry's suggestion would be good homework to have done in advance.

I started this thread just over a year ago. You should read it. Everyone with the exception of 2 or 3 folks told me I was crazy to ask for a raise. I did it anyway and succeded.

Good luck to you!

a couple months before the bubble burst ...around october of 08'... i asked and recieved a ~18% raise ...the bubble burst and the company went through some downsizing ...needless to say i was in the first group of people to be laid off ...someone had warned me that we were only 10% into the recession and things were going to get worse ..but of course 2 yrs into my professional experience and never seeing a recession before i ignored the warning

If you are going to ask for a raise ..i wouldnt ask for 20%

If i were you i would ask myself ..if things get worse for the company (considering there has already been atleast 1 layoff) do i want to be the first one on the chopping block?

since you asked, i would say "no".

could you imagine how you would feel if you were the boss, trying to keep your firm afloat during turbulent times such as this and a kid, "two years fresh out of school", who is already making good money asked you for $10,000 more a year?

if it were me, i would listen to what the kid had to say, thank them for sharing their profound insights and then show them the door.

in my personal experience with raises and the asking of them, it's all about leverage. what are YOU doing that noone else can do? i worked in a small firm in l.a. and was able to pull in $85,000 / year. but, i was also running the office and basically being the boss when the boss wasn't in the office. if you're skills and experience are valuable to the firm, you should be rewarded for them. so, my advice would be to make yourself valuable...wait for the economy to spring forth...look for other opportunities that are of equal or great pay as a back up, THEN sit down with your employer / manager / whatever and discuss compensation. or become a BIM manager or something that few people can be right now and then you will make some bank.