Allow me to set the mood:
I've been using a Dell Inspiron 9300 for just under four years and it's served valiantly, but it's becoming rapidly apparent that its days are numbered. I'm doing what I can to squeeze the last bit of performance out of it but at best I think I could go another six months before I start getting crippling failures and irrevocable data loss (knock on wood). I'm considering making the jump to Mac but I'm still on the fence.
My main concerns are with the software availability/compatibility. I use Rhino and MasterCam almost exclusively and even though I know McNeel is cooking up a Mac release I haven't heard what degree of compatibility it will have with existing plug-ins (Grasshopper being my primary concern) or if the same scripting capabilities will be available. Regardless, it looks like I would still need Windows to run MasterCam. I've heard good things about running parallels and keeping Windows segregated from the internet so that it can't bog down with system updates but I'm still wary of the efficiency of running two operating systems.
The other obvious issue is the price- is it really worth it in the long run to shell out for Mac prices?
I know the Mac vs. Windows debate is at least as contentious as health care but can someone give me some advice that isn't built on ideology? So far everyone I've talked to has been a bit, well, extremist in their views.
(sub-thread)
Any advice on the best way to tune up an antediluvian Dell would also be welcome with open arms, a ticker-tape parade, and, quite possibly, sexual favors.
I've used a macbook pro for about 2 years. I am not sure it lives up to the hype. I use rhino, and honestly, even w/ vwmare it's still a pain to switch back and forth between mac and windows. Macs are cool looking, and a few things just work easier, but they're damn expensive...
not sure what to expect from the mac version of rhino--
I've had a macbook pro for around 3 years now and have used it for the duration of my undergrad arch degree. I've love it, but I'm not one for the whole mac is better stuff.
I bought mine because at the time it offered the faster processor, the most ram, and was the lightest laptop available with a 17" screen. Also i had used windows vista at the office and that it was a huge mess with plotters and cad and all of that stuff, which really put me off to using windows.
I run bootcamp, with xp, which works well, although my hard drive isn't that big so it sucks having to split the space. All my windows programs (rhino, max, cad, revit, etc..) seem to run well although i have had some problems with license issues resetting themselves which can be a real hassle to deal with. I like the interface better on macs but that is personal preference. In my opinion adobe programs run smoother but thats really what macs were made for.
The price can be expensive, but if you look at hp and Dell and really configure them out they are very comparable sometimes even more expensive. HP and Dell have really caught up in terms of performance now offering the i7 (quad core) while the macbook pro is still only dual core. You can get an hp or dell with better performance and just as light now, if your willing to pay.
If i had to do it again and was going for top performance I would definitely consider an hp or a dell this time around.
Dont get me wrong I love my mac and really love the new unibody look but it terms of performance the dont have the advantage that they did 2 1/2- 3 1/2 years ago.
I am a long-time mac loyalist and use parallels to run autocad when I need it, but if you work primarily in Windows based programs, it would make more sense to buy a PC. From what i have seen, the mac version of rhino will not be out for a while yet, and as you note, it may be even longer for plug-ins and add ons to catch up.
The advantage of the mac in my mind has always been that the consistent interface makes it easy to pick up new software and run with it, but when you get into serious 3-d that is kind of beside the point. Put your money into a good graphics card for the PC: it's the software you work with - the hardware just sits there.
I have had this same conversation with many of my studio companions. And the conclusion I have come to is this...
If it were me, I would go with PC for a couple of reasons. 1. I am proficient enough with computers to buy a base line computer with a ridiculous processor and buy after market RAM, HDD, and Graphics Card install them myself and be left with a computer that can have a quad core processor, 4+ GB of RAM, the biggest hard drive I can get my hands on as well as a Graphics card that can handle anything that I can throw at it and then some. I have a Dell M1210 and bought 4GB of RAM from newegg.com for $60! Then bought a new optical drive, and Hard drive, and now my computer runs faster and better then when I bought it new 2 years ago.
All of us have had problems with Vista, but all in all for the power performance and price, basically building my computer from the ground up will always be my first option when buying a new computer and IMHO that is much easier and the effects are greater with a PC.
It seems that if you like building computers, PC is obviously the way to go. It appears that every (vocal) PC user on here built theirs up at Fry's on the cheap, and they run super-fine, some probably faster than a top-end Mac Pro, for a few hundred (or thousand?) less.
I can't build computers, it's not really my cup of tea. I like that Macs have all these cool, simple doors and mechanisms to drop in whatever you want. Sure, everything Mac is expensive, but you're essentially paying for someone else design some sweet functionality for you (and an apple logo, but whatever). Sometimes I just open the door on my Mac Pro and stare at how flippin' clean the inside of this thing is, it's like Chip Foose in there. All of the cards and processors and whatever-else-goes-inside-a-computer just slide out for changing, like some crazy 1950's future-kitchen. Installing RAM or... other card stuff is barely harder than than dropping them on the floor. I like that. Also, you can run Windows only and ditch OSX altogether. Does that defeat the purpose of buying a Mac? Only a little. I'm pretty sure it doesn't hurt performance, but like I said, I don't know much about building computers.
It’s up to you in the end but if you get a Mac you will need to run your software in bootcamp which is just like a normal PC. You could use Parallels to access your windows partition while in OS X, or use something like drop box to keep things synchronised and backed up between the two partitions.
Rhino for mac won’t have plugins since they require .net, but apparently Rhino is meant to be shifting to a unified plugin framework so plugins can be platform agnostic.
I just had a look at the specs for your model dell and it looks like your display has the same resolution as a 15” MBP (900 x 1440), so i’m assuming you would be going for this model if you decide to switch. It will be a lot more compact and lighter than your current ride. The build quality will be far superior too.
The new unibody MacBook Pro is really easy to upgrade if you need more ram and a higher capacity hard drive and you can get those components from crucial or newegg. All the internals are available and easily accessible under the bottom panel which just requires regular screw drivers for electronics.
If you have a nice Hi res external display at home then you can just get an adapter and hook that up so it’s easier to work with (works on your mac and pc partition)
How much space do you currently require on your current PC? You will need to figure that out when you setup your bootcamp partition.
If you do go the mac route you still get a beautiful and carefully thought out pc.
Would you still notice a performance hit, when running Parallels (no bootcamp, no seperate windows partition), if you max out the 17" Macbook Pro to 3.06 Ghz processor, 8 GB ram, 256 GB SSD hardrive.(6 GB allocated to windows 7), running programs like Revit, Autocad, 3ds max, Rhino (simultaneously)?
I’m not sure it might run as fast as most modern windows pc’s, but you would still get better performance in bootcamp so i would still run under bootcamp to get the very best out of your machine, that doesn’t mean that running under parallels isn’t an option, it’s just a bit slower than it would be in bootcamp since you are sharing system resources with OS X.
That reminds me if the original poster wanted to stick to a 17” display size they get a really nice HD display (1920 x 1200) and their 17” MBP would still be 1 kg (2.2 pounds) lighter than their old dell and only 0.98” thick.
Also i recommend a USB wired or wireless USB dongle based mouse (don’t go for bluetooth, it’s a bitch to have to set it up and there are still latency issues). you could just use your current one.
Oh and i forgot to mention that when removing your hard drive you will need another type of screw driver (Torx T6) to remove the screws in the hard drive which keep it in it’s mount.
oh and maybe wait (if you do consider going the mac route) a bit for apple to announce updated products (with newer chip sets), there are rumours flying about that they might do this later today or in the next week or 2 to coincide with the windows 7 launch
Oct 20, 09 9:33 am ·
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Yet another Mac vs. PC thread
Allow me to set the mood:
I've been using a Dell Inspiron 9300 for just under four years and it's served valiantly, but it's becoming rapidly apparent that its days are numbered. I'm doing what I can to squeeze the last bit of performance out of it but at best I think I could go another six months before I start getting crippling failures and irrevocable data loss (knock on wood). I'm considering making the jump to Mac but I'm still on the fence.
My main concerns are with the software availability/compatibility. I use Rhino and MasterCam almost exclusively and even though I know McNeel is cooking up a Mac release I haven't heard what degree of compatibility it will have with existing plug-ins (Grasshopper being my primary concern) or if the same scripting capabilities will be available. Regardless, it looks like I would still need Windows to run MasterCam. I've heard good things about running parallels and keeping Windows segregated from the internet so that it can't bog down with system updates but I'm still wary of the efficiency of running two operating systems.
The other obvious issue is the price- is it really worth it in the long run to shell out for Mac prices?
I know the Mac vs. Windows debate is at least as contentious as health care but can someone give me some advice that isn't built on ideology? So far everyone I've talked to has been a bit, well, extremist in their views.
(sub-thread)
Any advice on the best way to tune up an antediluvian Dell would also be welcome with open arms, a ticker-tape parade, and, quite possibly, sexual favors.
run bootcamp. i would buy used before a cheap dell.
I've used a macbook pro for about 2 years. I am not sure it lives up to the hype. I use rhino, and honestly, even w/ vwmare it's still a pain to switch back and forth between mac and windows. Macs are cool looking, and a few things just work easier, but they're damn expensive...
not sure what to expect from the mac version of rhino--
I've had a macbook pro for around 3 years now and have used it for the duration of my undergrad arch degree. I've love it, but I'm not one for the whole mac is better stuff.
I bought mine because at the time it offered the faster processor, the most ram, and was the lightest laptop available with a 17" screen. Also i had used windows vista at the office and that it was a huge mess with plotters and cad and all of that stuff, which really put me off to using windows.
I run bootcamp, with xp, which works well, although my hard drive isn't that big so it sucks having to split the space. All my windows programs (rhino, max, cad, revit, etc..) seem to run well although i have had some problems with license issues resetting themselves which can be a real hassle to deal with. I like the interface better on macs but that is personal preference. In my opinion adobe programs run smoother but thats really what macs were made for.
The price can be expensive, but if you look at hp and Dell and really configure them out they are very comparable sometimes even more expensive. HP and Dell have really caught up in terms of performance now offering the i7 (quad core) while the macbook pro is still only dual core. You can get an hp or dell with better performance and just as light now, if your willing to pay.
If i had to do it again and was going for top performance I would definitely consider an hp or a dell this time around.
Dont get me wrong I love my mac and really love the new unibody look but it terms of performance the dont have the advantage that they did 2 1/2- 3 1/2 years ago.
Just my opinion hope it helps.
I am a long-time mac loyalist and use parallels to run autocad when I need it, but if you work primarily in Windows based programs, it would make more sense to buy a PC. From what i have seen, the mac version of rhino will not be out for a while yet, and as you note, it may be even longer for plug-ins and add ons to catch up.
The advantage of the mac in my mind has always been that the consistent interface makes it easy to pick up new software and run with it, but when you get into serious 3-d that is kind of beside the point. Put your money into a good graphics card for the PC: it's the software you work with - the hardware just sits there.
I have had this same conversation with many of my studio companions. And the conclusion I have come to is this...
If it were me, I would go with PC for a couple of reasons. 1. I am proficient enough with computers to buy a base line computer with a ridiculous processor and buy after market RAM, HDD, and Graphics Card install them myself and be left with a computer that can have a quad core processor, 4+ GB of RAM, the biggest hard drive I can get my hands on as well as a Graphics card that can handle anything that I can throw at it and then some. I have a Dell M1210 and bought 4GB of RAM from newegg.com for $60! Then bought a new optical drive, and Hard drive, and now my computer runs faster and better then when I bought it new 2 years ago.
All of us have had problems with Vista, but all in all for the power performance and price, basically building my computer from the ground up will always be my first option when buying a new computer and IMHO that is much easier and the effects are greater with a PC.
It seems that if you like building computers, PC is obviously the way to go. It appears that every (vocal) PC user on here built theirs up at Fry's on the cheap, and they run super-fine, some probably faster than a top-end Mac Pro, for a few hundred (or thousand?) less.
I can't build computers, it's not really my cup of tea. I like that Macs have all these cool, simple doors and mechanisms to drop in whatever you want. Sure, everything Mac is expensive, but you're essentially paying for someone else design some sweet functionality for you (and an apple logo, but whatever). Sometimes I just open the door on my Mac Pro and stare at how flippin' clean the inside of this thing is, it's like Chip Foose in there. All of the cards and processors and whatever-else-goes-inside-a-computer just slide out for changing, like some crazy 1950's future-kitchen. Installing RAM or... other card stuff is barely harder than than dropping them on the floor. I like that. Also, you can run Windows only and ditch OSX altogether. Does that defeat the purpose of buying a Mac? Only a little. I'm pretty sure it doesn't hurt performance, but like I said, I don't know much about building computers.
It’s up to you in the end but if you get a Mac you will need to run your software in bootcamp which is just like a normal PC. You could use Parallels to access your windows partition while in OS X, or use something like drop box to keep things synchronised and backed up between the two partitions.
Rhino for mac won’t have plugins since they require .net, but apparently Rhino is meant to be shifting to a unified plugin framework so plugins can be platform agnostic.
I just had a look at the specs for your model dell and it looks like your display has the same resolution as a 15” MBP (900 x 1440), so i’m assuming you would be going for this model if you decide to switch. It will be a lot more compact and lighter than your current ride. The build quality will be far superior too.
The new unibody MacBook Pro is really easy to upgrade if you need more ram and a higher capacity hard drive and you can get those components from crucial or newegg. All the internals are available and easily accessible under the bottom panel which just requires regular screw drivers for electronics.
http://uneasysilence.com/media/2009/06/p1010073.jpg
If you have a nice Hi res external display at home then you can just get an adapter and hook that up so it’s easier to work with (works on your mac and pc partition)
How much space do you currently require on your current PC? You will need to figure that out when you setup your bootcamp partition.
If you do go the mac route you still get a beautiful and carefully thought out pc.
Would you still notice a performance hit, when running Parallels (no bootcamp, no seperate windows partition), if you max out the 17" Macbook Pro to 3.06 Ghz processor, 8 GB ram, 256 GB SSD hardrive.(6 GB allocated to windows 7), running programs like Revit, Autocad, 3ds max, Rhino (simultaneously)?
I’m not sure it might run as fast as most modern windows pc’s, but you would still get better performance in bootcamp so i would still run under bootcamp to get the very best out of your machine, that doesn’t mean that running under parallels isn’t an option, it’s just a bit slower than it would be in bootcamp since you are sharing system resources with OS X.
That reminds me if the original poster wanted to stick to a 17” display size they get a really nice HD display (1920 x 1200) and their 17” MBP would still be 1 kg (2.2 pounds) lighter than their old dell and only 0.98” thick.
Also i recommend a USB wired or wireless USB dongle based mouse (don’t go for bluetooth, it’s a bitch to have to set it up and there are still latency issues). you could just use your current one.
Oh and i forgot to mention that when removing your hard drive you will need another type of screw driver (Torx T6) to remove the screws in the hard drive which keep it in it’s mount.
Here is a video of how to upgrade parts on a 13” MBP, however it’s all very similar to the other models (15” and 17”)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ7ojU0Q0iQ
Ok, wow.
This is by far the best, and most tempered, advice I've ever gotten on this issue. Thanks to all.
oh and maybe wait (if you do consider going the mac route) a bit for apple to announce updated products (with newer chip sets), there are rumours flying about that they might do this later today or in the next week or 2 to coincide with the windows 7 launch
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