I did a residential project a few years ago which was recently published and I just received a phone call from a guy who asked if he could buy the plans. He wanted the complete set of plans (framing, electric, hvac, interior elevations, details, etc.) and asked me what I would charge for them. I was a little caught off guard but I told him $1000 and he quickly accepted.
My logic for that price was that my impression is that stock plans typically sell for about $500 and this was a much more complete set of drawings than typically offered.
When I got off the phone two questions occurred to me:
First, was it ethical of me to sell plans of a house that I custom designed for a different client? It seemed ok to me because the new job site is halfway across the country and the guy said he would have his own architect adapt my plans to his site.
Secondly, did I undercharge? These were not mass produced plans like the ones you find in supermarket checkout catalogs. This was a highly customized 7000sf house that I spent roughly 2000 hours designing and drawing. This guy is getting the same set of drawings for a very small fraction of the price that the previous client paid. After we complete the transaction I'm tempted to ask the guy what he was willing to pay.
to #1, as long as you own the plans, i don't see an ethical dilemma. a lot of work went into the thinking on the project. why not reuse them?
to #2 - depends. i've seen some of the more 'architect' (read mod trending) stock plan sites charge more - upwards of 3-4K each. southern living, which has plans by some very well respected architects, sell theirs for roughly 2K. so, maybe it's a bit low compared to the supermarket type of plan sets.
I would say you definitely underpriced them. His quick acceptance should have been a dead give away. You just priced a set of CD's for a published project for $1000?!
pretty dumb wasn't I? I should have told him I would think about it and call him back.
I forgot to mention that my former boss used to sell plans for a published house for only $500. That was a much smaller house and probably a 10 page drawing set vs the 50 for my project but still- at only $500 it almost wasn't even worth the trouble. For me, it was great making a $1000 for about 2 hours of work but I really think I undervalued the intellectual property.
I would answer your question about the ethics of this action with a definite "It's murky". If you did a design for a client, even if your contract doesn't state so, they might have an understanding that their house is a singular piece, like a piece of art. yes, the standard of practice is for you to hold the copyright to the design and allow the client a one-time license to use the design for their site, but do they have any expectation that you won't then turn around and sell the same design to the owner of the lot next door? Or 20 other people in their neighborhood? A "one time license" means they aren't allowed to do that, but are you?
Unless it's very clear in the contract, the former clients might not be too happy about this. I'm happy to hear from those who disagree with me, though.
You WAY under-priced. And I think it is a bit unethical (even though probably legal depending upon your contract).
We are a residential firm that does mostly custom work for clients. Even though my contract is clear that I own drawings, copyrights, etc. I would not let someone else build a project that my client paid good money (15% of the construction cost) for expecting a one-off.
We recently have started something new where we have designed a couple of prototype shell packages that a client can "buy" and customize. Our arrangement is that the client purchases a license to build the project once and hires us to modify the plans for the site and customize for them. Depending on the size of the house, the fee arrangement is an upfront fee of anywhere from $35,000 to $50,000 and then we bill hourly for our work after that. This seems to be a win/win for clients that just cannot afford our typical fees for full service which would cost around $250,000 and up depending on the construction cost and also drastically reduces the design time. The benefit for us is that it is understood that I will be "selling" the same project over and over which gives us a recurring revenue stream that custom, one-off work does not.
But $1,000 (I hope that you just left out zero's) would not even cover our pre-design work. Live and learn, but make sure that you have a rock solid indemnity clause, site safety clause and some sort of copyright/ownership clause.
Liberty Bell,
I agree with you about the murkiness. I didn't even use a contract but the understanding I'm sure was that they were receiving a one of a kind piece of art. I would have never considered reselling the plans to someone in the same town, let alone the lot next door. Halfway across the country though... that seemed different to me though it still makes me slight uneasy.
tyvek-
It makes me a bit sick to my stomach to think that I could have added a zero and still be selling myself short.
By the way, I like your firms prototype house concept.
This is the way that I would think about this sort of thing. You say that it was only 2 hrs work for you to make $1,000. But that is the wrong way to think about it. The plans have a value to them. If you want to quantify that value on an hourly basis, then you should not be thinking about the time it took for you to make the "sale", but the time it took to produce the drawings. That is the value that the second buyer is paying for.
Not to make you more sick to your stomach, but this is what I would speculate happened on the other end of your transaction. Client talks to their local architect about designing a house - - -local architect gives them a price (let's say $100,000 in arch fees for a 50 page CD set) - - -Client balks at price - - -Client sees your project and calls you- - -you say he can get the CD's for $1,000 - - -Client quickly says yes and has the same feeling you would have if someone would agree to sell you a new Mercedes for $500.
You have 1000 more than you did before you got the phone call. Don't be greedy. Next time it happens, charge the same but try to get a consulting fee or something that will keep on giving.
Oct 14, 09 5:23 pm ·
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how much to charge for a set of plans from a previous job?
I did a residential project a few years ago which was recently published and I just received a phone call from a guy who asked if he could buy the plans. He wanted the complete set of plans (framing, electric, hvac, interior elevations, details, etc.) and asked me what I would charge for them. I was a little caught off guard but I told him $1000 and he quickly accepted.
My logic for that price was that my impression is that stock plans typically sell for about $500 and this was a much more complete set of drawings than typically offered.
When I got off the phone two questions occurred to me:
First, was it ethical of me to sell plans of a house that I custom designed for a different client? It seemed ok to me because the new job site is halfway across the country and the guy said he would have his own architect adapt my plans to his site.
Secondly, did I undercharge? These were not mass produced plans like the ones you find in supermarket checkout catalogs. This was a highly customized 7000sf house that I spent roughly 2000 hours designing and drawing. This guy is getting the same set of drawings for a very small fraction of the price that the previous client paid. After we complete the transaction I'm tempted to ask the guy what he was willing to pay.
to #1, as long as you own the plans, i don't see an ethical dilemma. a lot of work went into the thinking on the project. why not reuse them?
to #2 - depends. i've seen some of the more 'architect' (read mod trending) stock plan sites charge more - upwards of 3-4K each. southern living, which has plans by some very well respected architects, sell theirs for roughly 2K. so, maybe it's a bit low compared to the supermarket type of plan sets.
I would say you definitely underpriced them. His quick acceptance should have been a dead give away. You just priced a set of CD's for a published project for $1000?!
pretty dumb wasn't I? I should have told him I would think about it and call him back.
I forgot to mention that my former boss used to sell plans for a published house for only $500. That was a much smaller house and probably a 10 page drawing set vs the 50 for my project but still- at only $500 it almost wasn't even worth the trouble. For me, it was great making a $1000 for about 2 hours of work but I really think I undervalued the intellectual property.
give him a permit set (6-8 sheets) for that. if he wants details, it'll cost extra.
I would answer your question about the ethics of this action with a definite "It's murky". If you did a design for a client, even if your contract doesn't state so, they might have an understanding that their house is a singular piece, like a piece of art. yes, the standard of practice is for you to hold the copyright to the design and allow the client a one-time license to use the design for their site, but do they have any expectation that you won't then turn around and sell the same design to the owner of the lot next door? Or 20 other people in their neighborhood? A "one time license" means they aren't allowed to do that, but are you?
Unless it's very clear in the contract, the former clients might not be too happy about this. I'm happy to hear from those who disagree with me, though.
You WAY under-priced. And I think it is a bit unethical (even though probably legal depending upon your contract).
We are a residential firm that does mostly custom work for clients. Even though my contract is clear that I own drawings, copyrights, etc. I would not let someone else build a project that my client paid good money (15% of the construction cost) for expecting a one-off.
We recently have started something new where we have designed a couple of prototype shell packages that a client can "buy" and customize. Our arrangement is that the client purchases a license to build the project once and hires us to modify the plans for the site and customize for them. Depending on the size of the house, the fee arrangement is an upfront fee of anywhere from $35,000 to $50,000 and then we bill hourly for our work after that. This seems to be a win/win for clients that just cannot afford our typical fees for full service which would cost around $250,000 and up depending on the construction cost and also drastically reduces the design time. The benefit for us is that it is understood that I will be "selling" the same project over and over which gives us a recurring revenue stream that custom, one-off work does not.
But $1,000 (I hope that you just left out zero's) would not even cover our pre-design work. Live and learn, but make sure that you have a rock solid indemnity clause, site safety clause and some sort of copyright/ownership clause.
Liberty Bell,
I agree with you about the murkiness. I didn't even use a contract but the understanding I'm sure was that they were receiving a one of a kind piece of art. I would have never considered reselling the plans to someone in the same town, let alone the lot next door. Halfway across the country though... that seemed different to me though it still makes me slight uneasy.
tyvek-
It makes me a bit sick to my stomach to think that I could have added a zero and still be selling myself short.
By the way, I like your firms prototype house concept.
This is the way that I would think about this sort of thing. You say that it was only 2 hrs work for you to make $1,000. But that is the wrong way to think about it. The plans have a value to them. If you want to quantify that value on an hourly basis, then you should not be thinking about the time it took for you to make the "sale", but the time it took to produce the drawings. That is the value that the second buyer is paying for.
Not to make you more sick to your stomach, but this is what I would speculate happened on the other end of your transaction. Client talks to their local architect about designing a house - - -local architect gives them a price (let's say $100,000 in arch fees for a 50 page CD set) - - -Client balks at price - - -Client sees your project and calls you- - -you say he can get the CD's for $1,000 - - -Client quickly says yes and has the same feeling you would have if someone would agree to sell you a new Mercedes for $500.
And by the way, $100K in arch fees for a 7,000sqft house would be very low (especially when you spent 2000 hours).
I'm so sick to my stomach I'm puking all over my keyboard right now. It's green and has puddled around my feet in the form of Benjamin Franklin.
have you actually sold them yet? just tell the guy the smokin' deal is off since you don't have a written contract with him ..
also, did you prepare the 'framing, electric, hvac' plans? your consultants may not allow you to sell their plans to be used on another project.
You have 1000 more than you did before you got the phone call. Don't be greedy. Next time it happens, charge the same but try to get a consulting fee or something that will keep on giving.
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