I'm beginning to realize I should not do favors for anyone, including friends. No discounts for my services, no extra effort to help order materials & fixtures to cut down their costs, etc. It's just not worth the effort to do the work at a reduced rate, especially considering competitive architectural fees are generally way too low to begin with.
Have any of you offered reduced fees for friends? If so, do you regret it? Have you decided never to do it again? I'm thinking that doing so is simply bad business policy. Thoughts?
1. i provide free consultations for my friends... why, when i charge it, they will start being picky on this n that. so i gave my advise then that's the end of story.
2. no, i do not regret it n quite happy to help out.
3. i only regret it when i charge them... that's what friends are for rite?
4. its not a bad business policy, becos friends will connect u to rich clients n to build up network... that's how it works in asia.
I would not work for a friend at all, nor would I hire a friend to do work for me. I firmly believe that friendships and business relationships should be kept separate. Just my 2 cents.
While it is ideal to separate business and friendship, it leaves a lot of opportunities, both for you and friends, off the table.
You just need to lay the ground rules out before starting, just like any biz partnership (although it is easy to skip that and get in a mess as things go from fun talking to actual dollars).
don't charge less because they'll feel they GOT less. you could possibly find a middle-ground - get them to negotiate with you for a 'good' rate but keep it so they'll still feel like a real client with the real client relationship.
As a rule, do you let your dog, no matter how faithful, pee on your carpets? It should only happen once, and then only by accident, because then the dog, and lots of others to follow afterwards, will expect the same treatment. This is a slippery slope that, once entered, is impossible to (re) negotiate.
OK...at least I'm not alone here. It's a lesson learned. Never again...I certainly don't have the Whitney Houston (That's what friends are for) methodology for business. I think it strains the relationship more than it strengthens it.
family and money should be kept separate where possible at all costs. if you've ever witnessed an inheritance dividing process you will know that. personally, I would work for friends and give free consultancy (that honestly doesn't take that long) and let that be the extent of it. the one time I did go ahead after consultancy to produce planning permission material I ended up with a friend (friend's mother more precisely) that didn't want to proceed since application got turned down, but also didn't want to pay for the work done to date. needless to say there was no contract and I did not push for payment but decided that would be the first and only time. of course this is the type of friend that wants to extend their house or add an extra bathroom upstairs or whatever. the type of "friends" that build office blocks and luxury retreats and hooks you up with other friends like them should be charged like any client from the beginning.
With friends and family, I recommend that you talk for payment in the form of a beer or a meal. If they want drawings (beyond a napkin sketch), you get paid.
I believe this depends on the amount of work. Almost everybody has a cousin who works at the auto body shop or a uncle who is a carpenter, a sister who is a lawyer etc. etc. A lot of people help family and friends out, often at reduced rates. You shouldn't extend yourself into doing something that you simply can't afford. But on the other hand, friends will come back to you again and again, and like others said, they are a great source of referrals and recommendations.
Along the lines of what Steven Ward described, it might be a matter of taking your hourly rate and reducing it by some portion of the profit you build in. For example, If you really can't go below 75% of your normal rate without risking not covering expenses etc. then by all means, you shouldn't charge less than that. A friend will understand if you explain that. A good friend may even over pay or force you to charge them your full rate. I don't really understand the idea of having a specific rule to never work with family and friends, that seems almost masochistic.
What do you think about charging your company less? To me that seems to be worse than charging your friends less, but it seems to not only be acceptable, it is almost the norm. A lot of architects come out of school and at their first job work as if they are salaried, putting in many many extra unpaid hours of work. You could say that the company as a whole is making the choice to charge less than the actual cost of their services, but it is the individual employees who bear that burden.
Now I fully realize many of you are currently just doing whatever you can to hang onto your job, so I'm not suggesting you suddenly start ducking out early, but it is something to consider.
Don't do it! You can consult but don't do any work for your friends and family. A lot of us did it and we lost our friends or we don't have the same relationship like we did before.
Sep 18, 09 5:05 pm ·
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Do you charge friends less?
I'm beginning to realize I should not do favors for anyone, including friends. No discounts for my services, no extra effort to help order materials & fixtures to cut down their costs, etc. It's just not worth the effort to do the work at a reduced rate, especially considering competitive architectural fees are generally way too low to begin with.
Have any of you offered reduced fees for friends? If so, do you regret it? Have you decided never to do it again? I'm thinking that doing so is simply bad business policy. Thoughts?
1. i provide free consultations for my friends... why, when i charge it, they will start being picky on this n that. so i gave my advise then that's the end of story.
2. no, i do not regret it n quite happy to help out.
3. i only regret it when i charge them... that's what friends are for rite?
4. its not a bad business policy, becos friends will connect u to rich clients n to build up network... that's how it works in asia.
I would not work for a friend at all, nor would I hire a friend to do work for me. I firmly believe that friendships and business relationships should be kept separate. Just my 2 cents.
I end up giving discounts to friends and family, and it always proves to be a big mistake!
While it is ideal to separate business and friendship, it leaves a lot of opportunities, both for you and friends, off the table.
You just need to lay the ground rules out before starting, just like any biz partnership (although it is easy to skip that and get in a mess as things go from fun talking to actual dollars).
my business law class in high school had a great saying:
Business is business, friendship is BS.
Family work is another matter.. RUN!
don't charge less because they'll feel they GOT less. you could possibly find a middle-ground - get them to negotiate with you for a 'good' rate but keep it so they'll still feel like a real client with the real client relationship.
As a rule, do you let your dog, no matter how faithful, pee on your carpets? It should only happen once, and then only by accident, because then the dog, and lots of others to follow afterwards, will expect the same treatment. This is a slippery slope that, once entered, is impossible to (re) negotiate.
OK...at least I'm not alone here. It's a lesson learned. Never again...I certainly don't have the Whitney Houston (That's what friends are for) methodology for business. I think it strains the relationship more than it strengthens it.
family and money should be kept separate where possible at all costs. if you've ever witnessed an inheritance dividing process you will know that. personally, I would work for friends and give free consultancy (that honestly doesn't take that long) and let that be the extent of it. the one time I did go ahead after consultancy to produce planning permission material I ended up with a friend (friend's mother more precisely) that didn't want to proceed since application got turned down, but also didn't want to pay for the work done to date. needless to say there was no contract and I did not push for payment but decided that would be the first and only time. of course this is the type of friend that wants to extend their house or add an extra bathroom upstairs or whatever. the type of "friends" that build office blocks and luxury retreats and hooks you up with other friends like them should be charged like any client from the beginning.
, not whitney
With friends and family, I recommend that you talk for payment in the form of a beer or a meal. If they want drawings (beyond a napkin sketch), you get paid.
I believe this depends on the amount of work. Almost everybody has a cousin who works at the auto body shop or a uncle who is a carpenter, a sister who is a lawyer etc. etc. A lot of people help family and friends out, often at reduced rates. You shouldn't extend yourself into doing something that you simply can't afford. But on the other hand, friends will come back to you again and again, and like others said, they are a great source of referrals and recommendations.
Along the lines of what Steven Ward described, it might be a matter of taking your hourly rate and reducing it by some portion of the profit you build in. For example, If you really can't go below 75% of your normal rate without risking not covering expenses etc. then by all means, you shouldn't charge less than that. A friend will understand if you explain that. A good friend may even over pay or force you to charge them your full rate. I don't really understand the idea of having a specific rule to never work with family and friends, that seems almost masochistic.
I've thought about this a little more.
What do you think about charging your company less? To me that seems to be worse than charging your friends less, but it seems to not only be acceptable, it is almost the norm. A lot of architects come out of school and at their first job work as if they are salaried, putting in many many extra unpaid hours of work. You could say that the company as a whole is making the choice to charge less than the actual cost of their services, but it is the individual employees who bear that burden.
Now I fully realize many of you are currently just doing whatever you can to hang onto your job, so I'm not suggesting you suddenly start ducking out early, but it is something to consider.
Don't do it! You can consult but don't do any work for your friends and family. A lot of us did it and we lost our friends or we don't have the same relationship like we did before.
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