1. Do a search, been discussed several times

2. I'd say 'no', but that's a guess

Jackb,

Use the search function at the bottom of the page for "real estate." You'll find many threads.

I have been looking through old posts. I was just wondering if anybody had a list of the schools.

http://web.mit.edu/cre/students/overview/mba-msred.html

For between MBA and MSRED, an interesting comparison....

Is there any school that does M.arch/MRED dual degree

upenn

If you're goal is to have a design-oriented development firm along the lines of Joanathan Segal's firm, you don't necessarily need to go back to school. You would probably have a good experience in school, and there is a lot to be said for getting masters degrees, but seriously consider not going back to school too. Would the debt really be worth it?

Lenders and investors tend to care more about track record and development experience than what degree you have or what finance classes you've taken. Knowing how to structure and pro forma complex deals for large-scale projects is great for your MRED classmates who hope to work for Hines or Trammell Crow, but it won't give you the kind of knowledge you'll need to manage your sub-contractors and pull a three-unit condo project out of the ground and push it into your buyers' hands.

As an alternative to going back to school consider trying to put together a small development project now - think of any money you risk as your tuition for the learning experience that will come from it. Join your local ULI chapter's Young Leaders Group and get involved with any and all mentorship oppotunities they offer.

upenn's m.arch has a certificate program in real estate development. does not require additional years of study. just have to get accepted into the program. columbia has a one year msred, so does harvard and mit, both one year programs, cornell has a two year one. but apart from upenn, for the other schools, u need to take the GMAT. They require years of experience as well. I have a friend who graduated from UC Berkely with a B.Arch and worked in the architectural field for 5 years and then went on to MIT for the MSRED. He was unemployed for over a year and recently found a federal job. He also thought that the degree would help him a great deal financially. Of course he graduated last summer which was the worst time for real estate..
upenn also has a joint degree program with wharton so u can do both m.arch and a mba for a total of 4 years. however the concentration for the mba would be in real estate. you need to apply and get accepted by wharton separately.

THIS IS THE MOST RELEVANT ADVICE YOU WILL EVER RECEIVE

I have a M.Arch (class of ’07) and a MRED (class of ’08) from ASU so I know EXACTLY what you're talking about and where you're going. I have 7 years experience in the architectural field (am LEED certified as well) and I am currently pursuing my architectural license.

Here’s what you need to know:

1. If you’re on an architecture/design track, getting your M.ARCH is something you’ll need to do regardless of whatever path you take (in order to get your license) and ASU is as good a place as any. They have excellent professors and outstanding study abroad opportunities and I highly recommend that you take advantage of them in order to broaden your perspective. Find a school that fits your personality.

2. The MRED degree is NOT a means of getting out of debt quickly. Actually, the exact opposite is true. Even with a TA position and scholarships, it will encumber you with debt that only decades of hard work and ingenuity will overcome (unless you are already financially independent). Ironically, during the program you will more fully appreciate this by learning how to model the cost of borrowing $40k today and paying it off over the course of the next 25 years. The only careers that will put you on a fast track to get out of debt that you can enter straight out of the program are ones that will lead you far away from a career in design: i.e. commercial brokerage, appraisal, finance, etc… In short, it is PURE FANTASY to think that a MRED degree will magically land you a job that will make all of your debt problems go away in short order, no matter what school from which you receive your degree (MIT, Columbia, ASU, etc.). The recent economic downturn has simply wiped out any such positions if ever they existed.

3. If you are interested in learning the fundamentals of commercial real estate without spending $40k on the MRED, the CCIM (www.ccim.com) program of study is much more affordable and allows you to try a class or two without committing the resources associated with either the MBA or MRED. The CCIM designation will teach you everything you need to know about commercial real estate (which includes the “Jonathan Segal” model you speak of regarding multi-family residential projects) and provide a solid network of professionals who can help you guide your career. The graduate programs you mention often use the CCIM models as a point of reference.

4. Understanding the relationship between the architecture and development worlds is crucial to a better future. There are many ways to gain this understanding and what I have mentioned in the above points is only one perspective. The truth is that you have to become an entrepreneur and discover the method that works for you. It will not magically appear as a result of any single course of study in any program. I wish you best of luck and if you want further advice, contact Megan Paul at ASU with any questions you have and I will be happy to provide any perspective that I can regarding your path.

5. I have vastly oversimplified many of the above issues in order to provide some relevant advice. All of them offer adequate opportunity for further understanding as it relates to your situation. Do your own investigation and come to your own conclusions. That is the spirit of any of the programs that you have referenced.

Best of Luck.

1. Dont bother w dual programs. Return on dual degree wont be that great. I wouldn't bother with the secondary arch degree if you are sure you are going development route. You gotta figure out how to raise money and get some projects under belt. Being a more educated designer wont help there significantly. Better off networking and figuring how to put deals together. If you got no money behind you, dont matter if you have a pretty design.

If you want to play it conservatively, intern or get a job (no small task these days) at a development company before going to school. That will help you figure you what you need.

2. MBA is more of a general degree which contains less stuff directly applicable to RE development compared to MRED/ MSRED. MBA is more if you want to have more broad business opportunities or say maybe you want to work more in RE investment/ finance/ securities than development per se.

I'm also interested in pursuing a MRED by 2011/2012. I'm thinking on applying to MIT, Harvard and Columbia. Not sure about the type of profile those top schools are looking for. This is my short resume:

- 5-year Architectural Degree from a French school of architecture (I'm French myself). Qualified there. Poor GPA by American standards, but I could do a GRE/GMAT and get good scores.
- 2 year experience at very-well know starchitects firms in Rotterdam and London. Let's say the top of the top.
- Was made redundant a few months ago. Luckily I quickly got a job in Asia. I'm currently a Project Architect for a major flagship commercial project, working side-by-side with the real estate (Western) developers. A position I couldn't dream in Europe or the US without 10 years experience (and even so!). Besides this is a country with very-good perspectives on the short term and I know that many Western arch. practices and developers are trying to hit the market. Could that be appealing for an admission?

Which is your opinion? I talked to some people I know that have studied at Ivy League programmes (nobody in MRED though) and they were very positive, and they thought with a couple of more years of experience I could easily get in.

hawkin,

youre not in bad shape. work experience sounds good. just make sure you do well on GMAT's, i.e. 700+ min. preferably a lil higher and they will balance out yr grades somewhat.

I would also consider working as a project manager or in-house type architect for one of these bigtime development firm prior to applying. It will help give you an edge over the ppl who only have architecture experience. If you are ambitious in a job like this you can also get some exposure to the finance part which would really help yr cause.

Thank you Megan Paul!

I graduated in May from Woodbury San Diego's BArch program. Segal teaches in the MRED program there along with other developers and architects in SD (Ted Smith, Sebastian Mariscal, Lloyd Russell, ect.) In the fall the SD campus will be offering an MArch and MS Arch but I am unsure if they will offer a dual degree option with MRED. I have friends in the MRED now who think the program is rewarding & the information they are learning is more useful than much of our undergrad studies. There are many options on Segal, but IMO if you want to establish your firm in a similar model, this might be a good option for you. Good luck!

Jacknimble819,

We are both in the same boat. I also hold a 4yr degree in Architecture with work experience in a Architecture firm and worked for a Contractor while getting my degree. And we both have the same dream of have a firm similar to Jonathan Segal. I'm also planning to start my Master's this Fall in Real Estate.

My questions to you are do you think someone needs M.ARCH to be a great designer? Do you think license Architects are the only people allowed and can design? Do you think an Ivy league school will make you a great developer/architect?

My only suggestion is don't spend $30,000 or  more to get this degree. Don't assume that getting another degree in anything will help pay your loans sooner. If you had worked as a welder in NYC you probably would have already paid 90% of your tuition. I don't think an MBA would help either. Check this website out www.selectleaders.com. Check out what the general requirements for most of these jobs posted.

Hope this helped

Nice thread.

I agree with a lot that has been said on here, namely items revolving around cost and expectation of future earnings following graduation...

I'm a firm believer in after your first job, where you went to school becomes an increasingly small footnote. Given that, I believe cost is a consideration that cannot be underestimated.

$60,000 a year for education can be viewed as a bargain or a deal breaker. It just depends on your experience, opportunity costs and desire. 

For someone with little to no real estate, architecture / engineering or construction experience, jumping into a program with a price tag over 15k a year is a bad idea. 

When you graduate, you will be at square 1, making 40-65k a year, learning the ropes, sill wishing you had the know how and capital to do your own projects...

For someone with solid experience entering the program, you will leave that program in the 70-85k pay range and be in a much better position to eventually spearhead your own project or company for that matter. 

There are a lot of options out there for MSRED seekers. From Ivy leagues to lesser known state schools, even a number of international programs offer real estate programs.  

I personally believe the market (city) surrounding the school is more important than anything.  For undergrad I chose a "weaker" school to be in a better market for urban planning and the pay of has been huge! 

Education is what you make of it. Where you are has a lot of to do with that. 

one more thing. 

3 years for an MArch + Certificate in Real Esate 

vs 

3.5 for an MArch + MSRED

I believe the dual degree is the way to go... why pay all that money for a certificate?

I've done cert programs. They are great but they aint not credential. 

When you find yourself sitting at a table of VPs or prospective clients, rubbing elbows or doing introductions, I promise sharing your masters education will go over much better better than spitting out some crap about a certificate.