I'm having a discussion with a co-worker about LEED certification requirements, and how often LEED portions of a project are often value engineered out before anything else. I have a relevant question that I'm hoping the community can answer.
The scenario is a standard one: You've designed a building that is LEED certified as of the end of the design process. As the project goes through construction, the LEED components are removed, leaving you with an end product that would never have received LEED certification if designed as such.
My co-worker contends that the fundamental commissioning that would prevent this is, or was at some point, only worth 1 point in the LEED rating system. By omitting this single point, you cut of the USGBC's only way to monitor your final product for compliance, and you can basically pass a LEED design through as a red herring while the finished building has been VE'd so much that it barely meets the local energy codes. All the while, the building can be marketed as LEED certified, even if it is an obvious circumvention of the system.
I did find that, as of LEED 2.2, commissioning is required as an EA prerequisite, affecting 17 of 69 points. But even with those points lost, it would appear that you can still garner enough points to get your theoretical design LEED certified.
I'm wondering what parts of the above are actually true, and whether the scenario described is possible in any form. If it is indeed possible, is there anything recent or upcoming that's intended to remedy the issue? I know that 3.0 has revamped LEED significantly, but I don't know if this problem has been addressed (or if it ever existed in the first place).
Why don't they just make it mandatory like they did with ADA and therefore everybody will be forced to make buildings 'green' and the profit will not be going to some scam organization like LEED at all!
Sider... I'm not sure your coworker understands how the prerequisites fit into the LEED system. You cannot get a building LEED certified without meeting ALL prerequisites, including commissioning (and since June 07 beating ASHRAE 90.1-2004 baselines by at least 14% in energy performance).
Sure, you could lie and submit a design that doesn't exist and get it certified, but if you're willing to lie that much why even go through the trouble of submitting anything. You could just say it's LEED, EnergyStar, or whatever and be done with it...
Short of attending local LEED chapter meetings or workshops, you can get a pretty good understanding of how things work by reading the rating systems themselves, available free. Just go to this link, click on the rating system you're interested in on the right side of the page, and you should see a link to the "rating system" for each version somewhere on the page. Much more information can be found in the reference guides, but those must be purchased for around $150.
Thanks for the responses. Yep, I feel a bit dumb for even asking now, but I completely missed the fact that all prerequisites had to be met, or I could have quashed this discussion at the ten second mark. My confusion wasn't helped by finding numerous complaints online about lack of enforcement during construction and beyond, and my assumption was that this was indeed a problem and was being fixed in the latest system.
Regardless, good to know, because the system as it was being described to me seemed... less than functional. And I do not claim to know anywhere near enough to pass an all-encompassing judgment on that, lol. Just my impressions.
I believe that is the hierarchy
An "OR" is what seperates the different OPTIONs available to achieve that point.
An "AND" seperates the different requirements in a particular OPTION available to achieve that point
ICC 700-2008 is a pretty absurd "green building" standard (that was developed by National Association of Homebuilders) given that it really only works with single-family houses. Now NAHB is challenging LEED for Neighborhood Development, which is trying to become the ANSI standard for urban development projects, because they somehow think that LEED ND is conflicted with ICC 700-2008 and somehow covers the same issues. Seems instead that NAHB recognizes that if LEED ND becomes highly successful, fewer people will be building and living in "green" single-family homes.
LEED Certification & Value Engineering
Hi all,
I'm having a discussion with a co-worker about LEED certification requirements, and how often LEED portions of a project are often value engineered out before anything else. I have a relevant question that I'm hoping the community can answer.
The scenario is a standard one: You've designed a building that is LEED certified as of the end of the design process. As the project goes through construction, the LEED components are removed, leaving you with an end product that would never have received LEED certification if designed as such.
My co-worker contends that the fundamental commissioning that would prevent this is, or was at some point, only worth 1 point in the LEED rating system. By omitting this single point, you cut of the USGBC's only way to monitor your final product for compliance, and you can basically pass a LEED design through as a red herring while the finished building has been VE'd so much that it barely meets the local energy codes. All the while, the building can be marketed as LEED certified, even if it is an obvious circumvention of the system.
I did find that, as of LEED 2.2, commissioning is required as an EA prerequisite, affecting 17 of 69 points. But even with those points lost, it would appear that you can still garner enough points to get your theoretical design LEED certified.
I'm wondering what parts of the above are actually true, and whether the scenario described is possible in any form. If it is indeed possible, is there anything recent or upcoming that's intended to remedy the issue? I know that 3.0 has revamped LEED significantly, but I don't know if this problem has been addressed (or if it ever existed in the first place).
Any comments are appreciated. Thanks.
Might have just answered my own question...
http://solveclimate.com/blog/20090702/leed-no-longer-stops-construction-version-3-checks-efficiency
Still, discussion encouraged, especially about whether or not this method will actually work as intended.
at the end of construction you need to provide documentation for many credits and also confirm that design credits were executed per the plans.
so unless you lie and doctor your submittals the scenario you cite would not be possible (to remove LEED components but still be LEED certified).
Why don't they just make it mandatory like they did with ADA and therefore everybody will be forced to make buildings 'green' and the profit will not be going to some scam organization like LEED at all!
Sider... I'm not sure your coworker understands how the prerequisites fit into the LEED system. You cannot get a building LEED certified without meeting ALL prerequisites, including commissioning (and since June 07 beating ASHRAE 90.1-2004 baselines by at least 14% in energy performance).
Sure, you could lie and submit a design that doesn't exist and get it certified, but if you're willing to lie that much why even go through the trouble of submitting anything. You could just say it's LEED, EnergyStar, or whatever and be done with it...
Short of attending local LEED chapter meetings or workshops, you can get a pretty good understanding of how things work by reading the rating systems themselves, available free. Just go to this link, click on the rating system you're interested in on the right side of the page, and you should see a link to the "rating system" for each version somewhere on the page. Much more information can be found in the reference guides, but those must be purchased for around $150.
Thanks for the responses. Yep, I feel a bit dumb for even asking now, but I completely missed the fact that all prerequisites had to be met, or I could have quashed this discussion at the ten second mark. My confusion wasn't helped by finding numerous complaints online about lack of enforcement during construction and beyond, and my assumption was that this was indeed a problem and was being fixed in the latest system.
Regardless, good to know, because the system as it was being described to me seemed... less than functional. And I do not claim to know anywhere near enough to pass an all-encompassing judgment on that, lol. Just my impressions.
Well, off to explain. Thanks.
I've got a question about the LEED reference guide. (should I post a new thread? how do i do that? im somewhat internet illiterate):
when the reference guide says:
bla bla bla
AND
bla bla bla
OR
bla bla bla
What is the order of operations regarding AND and OR ???
thanks if you can help
in your example:
you can do OPTION 1, which has 2 requirements:
"bla bla bla
AND
bla bla bla"
OR
you can do OPTION 2, which has 1 requirement:
"bla bla bla"
I believe that is the hierarchy
An "OR" is what seperates the different OPTIONs available to achieve that point.
An "AND" seperates the different requirements in a particular OPTION available to achieve that point
LEED will still have its place as a wonderful marketing tool.
Did anyone see this?
http://www.iccsafe.org/
USGBC, GBI support Green Construction Code.
ICC launches Green Construction Code.
I just have it has more teeth than their other one:
ICC 700-2008 National Green Building Standard
ICC 700-2008 is a pretty absurd "green building" standard (that was developed by National Association of Homebuilders) given that it really only works with single-family houses. Now NAHB is challenging LEED for Neighborhood Development, which is trying to become the ANSI standard for urban development projects, because they somehow think that LEED ND is conflicted with ICC 700-2008 and somehow covers the same issues. Seems instead that NAHB recognizes that if LEED ND becomes highly successful, fewer people will be building and living in "green" single-family homes.
I am worried about the ICC -700 than integration of the yet to be written green building code into ever
y day prectice and not by choice.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.