Hope you archinecters can offer some feedback. I've been trying to start up a firm for the past year. Up till now all moonlighting projects have been very modest in size and easily manageable with my schedule at my 9to5 job. Now I have an opportunity to work on a larger residential renovation which will undoubtedly demand more time and effort.
Here's my problem: I have a full time job that pays relatively well and provides unwavering stability right now, and I need to hold onto it for economic stability (I have a family). Good thing is this is exactly what one would hope for when trying to start up a firm. But, at a certain point the moonlighting gets too big to manage, but not profitable enough to abandon the stability of the day job...I can only assume lot's of start-ups go through this same dilemma.
So the question is: How do you moonlighters manage larger projects while simultaneously keeping a full time job. How do you attend meetings, take phonecalls from contractors and clients, etc...I'm primarily worried about the CA phase. Do you get a partner to split the work?
If anyone has any advice, it would be appreciated.
I went through this back in the day...one key is how far is the site from your employer's office. If it's close by, you make sure the contractor knows that you can meet at 7am, or at noon, and spend time on site before work or at lunch. The tricky part isn't regularly scheduled site meetings, it's the call you get saying "we need to adjust 'x', and I have 4 carpenters here w/ nothing to do until you tell us what you want.'
Another option is to bring the project to your employer...that's how people become partners, they bring in work. It may not be a good fit, or you may be afraid of it being taken over by your boss. But if you went to them and said 'I have project x, and have a really good relationship w/ the clients...they want me to run things', it might work. I've worked at firms that did very large institutional work, and they'd occasionally do small residential because a valued younger employee brought it in, and they recognized the value in developing that persons skills.
The partner idea seems very dicey...unless you have someone you trust implicitly not to make decisions that you'll be reversing the next time you're on site.
Lastly, be careful that you're not breaking any office policies...you don't want to lose that stability because someone discovers you using the plotter for outside work.
Thanks for the response, bklyntotfc. The site is close to home, but far from work. 7am meetings sound like the best option, but it's not something I'm looking forward to. I still don't know how I'll be able to juggle contractor and client calls. Sounds dicey.
Honestly, I do not want to become a partner at my employer's office, though it has been offered and I kindly declined the offer. I have too much desire for independence and I'd rather be in total control of my projects, income, and schedule.
I realize that I can get caught, and possibly fired for moonlighting...though I'm willing to take that chance right now. Otherwise my own office would never be realized. It's kind of a rite of passage. I have no intention of using work supplies for personal projects, so that's not an issue.
Thanks for the advice. I have to plan accordingly...
if you need help in cd's for interiors.... i'm open.
i used to work 2 jobs and did some moonlighting. the trick is to be able to do what you can in a timely fashion. make decisions and don't ponder on designing issues. alot of time is burned in design changes and not having a good contractor to understand your position.
keep designs clean and understandable and buildable. provide enough information to the contractors and see if they can work on the weekends so you can be there also...
...if you haven't yet, may want to understand your firms policy about moonlighting, some may have concerns about liability extending to them should issues arise.
also know of former associates keeping their moonlighting completely secret during the boom times, folks the firm trusted. then one day announcing they are leaving to start their own practice, already have their own digs down the street and several projects in the pot. everyone know's they did some (if not a lot) of their set-up on company time, and just didn't get caught...would've been hell to pay otherwise (they were asked to leave the day of their announcement).
If you've already been offered partnership, but declined, and now have a job big enough to substantially distract you from your office work, and state that you "have too much desire for independence and I'd rather be in total control of my projects, income, and schedule. ", then it's time to move on. Cut the cord, stop using your employer as a safety net, and start your own firm. All you need is a computer and a cell phone.
If you need the employment because your job provides the health insurance benefits that your family needs, then stop moonlighting and write your congresspeople urging them to disconnect employment from health care.
you're correct - no issue doing your own work on your own time, infact some firms understand it and encourage it with the hopes of you bringing the work in if it's large enough (as bk- notes above).
other firms have "policy's" - just have to be careful or it could get awkward.
Office policy is that is it discouraged but not 'forbidden.' Can't do any of it on company time or let it affect performance on the job. There is no specific requirement to inform the boss that you are doing work outside the office. But I do realize it is not very tactful to moonlight and can often be difficult to manage...which is precisely the purpose of my post.
Cryzko...thanks for the offer. I think I'm fine with the design, detailing, and filing the project. It's the CA work that I anticipate to be a bit of a strain.
Liberty..Sorry, but I think your post is a bit rash. I think you're making an assumption that I'm taking advantage of my employer. Truth is that I have tremendous responsibility managing numerous projects for the firm and have never let them down. I perform my responsibilities with great care and to the satisfaction of my employer. They are getting quite a bit from me also.
Just because I desire independence doesn't mean I simply abandon my job, especially not in this economy, and certainly with not enough work to maintain my current salary. That would be just plain irresponsible. Would you take your own advice if you were in my situation?
I also think it would be detrimental to the firm I'm working at, considering they rely on me for many of their projects. It's easy to say, "just leave," but I think a reality check is in order.
So become a partner. Take that drive for control and use it in a partnership position.
I don't at all think that you are taking advantage of your employer. I do suspect that they are not quite sure what to make of you, since you turned down their offer, but as you say I really don't know your situation.
What I do know is that if I offered someone a partnership and they turned it down but didn't move on to another job, I'd question their motives and commitment to the firm. And if I later found out they were doing big jobs on the sly, I'd be super pissed off and feel VERY taken advantage of, whether they had been a stellar employee in that time or not.
And, uh, yeah, I actually did take my own advice - I left a job where I was on partner track, had huge responsibility, and they loved me. I took a major hit in salary, lost all my benefits, and moved my family to a new city. It was highly irresponsible.
But that's what people do when they start their own firm. Leap and the net will appear.
Look, I'm not saying you HAVE to move on, but it's worth thinking about. If you want to run your own show, you have to put up with a LOT of uncertainty. If you become a partner, you share in the uncertainty too.
And even in this economy, residential remodel (at least in my area) is going pretty well.
As to the advice you asked for: like bklyn said, schedule early morning meetings, keep all conversations on your cell phone, and make sure your client signs a contract stating that your employer has absolutely no responsibility for any of the work you do. There have, yes, been cases of clients going after the firm of the person moonlighting when things went bad. You definitely don't want to be in that situation. Also, I'd go ahead and tell your employer - better to have it out in the open with an absolute certainty that NO office resources will go to the project.
Not all people can adjust their lifestyles in the exact way you did. What works for you may not work for others. I appreciate your opinion, but I'm saying that in my situation, it is not an option to quit. I'd be reducing my salary to less than a quarter of what I'm making now. The odds of survival for my family in New York (one of the most expensive cities in the world, mind you) would not be great. Currently, 40% of my salary goes to just rent. That is why I think your post is not realistic. At least not for me.
Sometimes people leap and there is no net. I know many firms in New York that have not weathered the storm. Many others have downsized drastically. Why would I take those chances? Sure, if I had enough work to reach 80% of my salary, perhaps that's a leap that's worth it, but until then it's just plain irresponsible.
By the way, by "Larger" projects I'm not talking about a sports arena or hospital or retail store. It's an residential interior renovation that happens to be more than just a small kitchen or bath renovation. By no means is it significant, and it's small enough that my boss would certainly turn it down if I ever tried to bring it into the office.
Out of curiosity, what city did you move to and what type of project encouraged your move (or rather, what percentage of your salary were you giving up?) Does your partner work also? Did you have a significant savings that you could dip into if things didn't work out? I have a feeling both our situations are quite different and, had you been in mine, you would not have made that leap to independence.
FP, I've got a somewhat similar situation a-brewin'... except I'm not intended to leave my current job, and my project is an entire house... so let me know how all this works out!.... :-)
You're not talkin' anything that most architects don't go through -- most architects think of eventually owning their own firms. In some fashion, this is how most owners got their own firms. There is no ethical dilemma in planning a larger future for oneself, and most of this future planning need not be a concern of your current employer.
But... and before anyone jumps on what i just wrote... I'd be very open about your specific current moonlighting project, and so I'd suggest a conversation with your boss ASAP. I seriously doubt that once you let them know that you'd like to do a partial remodel on the side, that they are going to object. I also doubt that it's the first time it's come up. Work out with them how to keep it legally separate, how to keep it OUTSIDE your day job.
Finally, if your boss is simply not up for the whole thing, then it sounds like for your situation you probably should transition yourself out of the side project. Can't sneak around.
I actually find myself disagreeing with Liberty Bell (one of only a handful of times since I started reading this forum years ago).
FP, if I am reading you correctly, this is your first "larger" moonlighting project, correct? And the potential client knows that this is a moonlighting situation and that you don't have a full practice, correct? If you are deceiving the client in any way, you are asking for HUGE problems, but that is another discussion.
If the above are true, I think that there is no secret...you just have to suck it up and find a way. I think that most people who have grown a moonlighting practice into starting their own firm run into the predicament that you are in and have to just figure it out.
If it were me, I would just make the client aware of your hours. I would invite them to call your cell (or whatever) anytime, but explain that you will respond to their calls or emails within 24 hours during X hours. For residential work, I am sure that the clients would welcome after hours/weekend meetings anyway. For construction observation, I would basically do the same thing with the contractor. I would also increase the number of site meetings to make up for the lack of availability. So why not have 2 or 3 weekly site meetings at 7am instead of 1 per week? It sucks and you will have to sacrifice time with your family (nights, mornings & weekends) for a year or two, but you just have to make it work until you have enough work to support starting a practice. Architectin' ain't easy.
Also, in all honesty, if you think that there will be no salary adjustment for a period of time I think that you are not being realistic, but that is another topic.
I think a really important factor is that you say you were offered partnership at your current firm and turned it down. That changes the whole picture with regard to moonlighting while still at that firm (IMO). By continuing to moonlight, you are announcing your intention to directly compete with your would be partners. Even if your projects are small and, in your opinion, not something the current firm would work on. I think the situation is substantially different from the typical employee doing some moonlighting. You have basically told your firm "I don't want to share." That leads me to believe they would be a little agitated to find out about your work.
Yes, the client knows I have a 9to5 job and that I am in the process of starting up my own practice. There is no deception when it comes to the client. I agree with all the other posts that by keeping the project secret from my employer that I am being somewhat deceptive to them. Truth is, this is the only way I can start a practice, and I do not feel it is a good idea to be honest about my intentions to start a practice. At least not with this employer. For all I know, it will be another year before i can truly manage my own practice, and during that time I would do everything in my power to perform well at work while juggling personal projects after hours.
Ledoux...It sounds like you consider this an ethical dilemma, as if i am obliged to share personal projects with my employer. Why should i do that if I don't WANT to be a partner? I have ideological differences with my employer, I would run my practice very differently, I have different design sensibilities than them, and, moreover, I was not hired with the premise of becoming a partner. It's one thing to be fair to the employer, but I think it's equally (if not more) important to be fair to myself and my personal career goals.
the advice above sounds fine to me, and obvious even. the only way to manage the time is to do it in off hours. a partner would be ideal, but failing that you are stuck...meaning, there is no way to manage it that is easy. like all things schedule-y in architecture the solution is to just do it.
the situation is more interesting though.
you were offered partner and turned it down and you are still in the office? if i were your boss i would just be waiting for your resignation letter to come in. i know some offices are different, but to me a partner is expected to bring in work. if they offered you a partnership i guess they are expecting you will be taking all future work for yourself....and this is just first step towards that happening.
isn't that awkward? sorry to pry, and of course it is not anyone's business but your own, but i am very curious how you plan to step away from where you are.
in my old office the way we did it was that the newly independent architect would be recomended for the small work, like houses and so on that we wouldn't touch so it was always amicable. in fact since starting my own firm i have worked on 2 very large projects with my old boss, which was awesome cuz we could not try for big work otherwise...but we never compete. i was not offered partnership though. somehow that feels like it means something...or perhaps not?
It is admittedly an awkward position to be in. I have tremendous respect for my boss. He is intelligent, thoughtful, and is generally quite easy to work with (as far as bosses are concerned). But, it was never my intention to be a partner at this firm...though I honestly did consider it when the offer came up. It has been over a year since the offer and I am still here. No regrets, and at this point my relationship with my boss is fine. When I decide the time is right to break free and officially start up my practice, I will just be honest with them.
If they ever discovered my intentions to start a practice before that time, I would be honest with them also, but until then I am devoted entirely to my responsibilities to the firm during office hours, and would be devoted entirely to my side projects after-hours. That's what moonlighting is supposed to be about.
But obviously my post points to some concern that I may not be able to avoid doing some personal work during office hours, unless prior arrangements are made with the client and contractor to avoid such scenarios...Still hoping for other suggestions on how to manage that aspect.
Have you thought of hiring a friend or past co-worker (at different employer) to share the work of this "larger" moonlighting project? Sounds like your question is all about balancing the work load as you've already made your decision about work ethics. Before getting too greedy and burning the candle at both ends bring on a partner of your own in this moonlighting for the CA work and possibly more. Of course I'd go outside your current employer when looking for a partner on this, but I'm sure you know at least someone who could help you out.
My experience has been with employers that strictly forbid all kinds of moonlighting. Since it does sound like this "larger" project could overwhelm you I see another valid reason outside liability for firms to discourage this practice. I do tend to side with LB's comments in regard to cutting the safety net. As she stated, she did move to a different city, pay cut, etc. Your situation is different but have you considered leaving NYC to start your own practice? Seriously, if owning your own firm is your dream you have to be realistic of the sacrifice that will require.
CT:
your post reminds me of me.
I just want through the same and would add the following to the above posts.
There is a point where you simply will not be able to do both. You’ll know when it happens when there is no choice anymore. And you’ll need to have a conversation with your employer and see where it goes. Will clearly change your relationship, particularly given the fact you declined a partnership. The firm will reasonably no longer have any interest to invest in you as an employee and whether you intend it or not: it may present a threat to them.
If I may, one residential project doesn’t seem enough work to leave.
Anything can happen to a project along the path to completion and often does.
Financing, lack of approvals, etc.
And everything will take longer than you think.
Your skills are second in line to your client base in being successful.
They are the most important assets you have.
I’m learning:
Being an employee is one thing in that it allows you to focus on the work. Being a principal is entirely another, demanding time on things you may not have even thought about.
Your problem now is not having the time. This doesn’t change. You may find as you establish yourself you will constantly be at new thresholds of managing time and resources.
In the end this all seems to take a path of its own.
At some point there is simply no choice. The work has to get done and you hire someone.
Someone mentioned all you need is a cell phone and a computer. Yes and No.
It helps to get work when you are a “real” business in the eyes of the rest of the world.
It also helps if certain things are in place.
Corporate structure
Liability insurance
Reliable and trusted consultants
And then there are the prerequisite publications and equipment.
Of course this evolves as needed along with the money that goes into it.
I took the leap some time ago and haven’t looked back.
The years to establish relationships with clients, building department officials, consultants leave me with the sense (time will tell) of standing on solid ground…actually something less than quicksand.
Could I have done it sooner?
Sure and I did. It just didn’t work for very long.
L-B said it well. “Jump and the net will appear.”
But be prepared.
Best of luck.
you be playing with "Fire"...and it burns...just a thought.. and no damn way can you support a practice on a house renovation...if your in the NYC market...I would suggest you move to Bridgeport and buy aloto f guns, so your cost of living isn't so high....
How to manage larger moonlighting projects
Hope you archinecters can offer some feedback. I've been trying to start up a firm for the past year. Up till now all moonlighting projects have been very modest in size and easily manageable with my schedule at my 9to5 job. Now I have an opportunity to work on a larger residential renovation which will undoubtedly demand more time and effort.
Here's my problem: I have a full time job that pays relatively well and provides unwavering stability right now, and I need to hold onto it for economic stability (I have a family). Good thing is this is exactly what one would hope for when trying to start up a firm. But, at a certain point the moonlighting gets too big to manage, but not profitable enough to abandon the stability of the day job...I can only assume lot's of start-ups go through this same dilemma.
So the question is: How do you moonlighters manage larger projects while simultaneously keeping a full time job. How do you attend meetings, take phonecalls from contractors and clients, etc...I'm primarily worried about the CA phase. Do you get a partner to split the work?
If anyone has any advice, it would be appreciated.
I went through this back in the day...one key is how far is the site from your employer's office. If it's close by, you make sure the contractor knows that you can meet at 7am, or at noon, and spend time on site before work or at lunch. The tricky part isn't regularly scheduled site meetings, it's the call you get saying "we need to adjust 'x', and I have 4 carpenters here w/ nothing to do until you tell us what you want.'
Another option is to bring the project to your employer...that's how people become partners, they bring in work. It may not be a good fit, or you may be afraid of it being taken over by your boss. But if you went to them and said 'I have project x, and have a really good relationship w/ the clients...they want me to run things', it might work. I've worked at firms that did very large institutional work, and they'd occasionally do small residential because a valued younger employee brought it in, and they recognized the value in developing that persons skills.
The partner idea seems very dicey...unless you have someone you trust implicitly not to make decisions that you'll be reversing the next time you're on site.
Lastly, be careful that you're not breaking any office policies...you don't want to lose that stability because someone discovers you using the plotter for outside work.
Good Luck
Thanks for the response, bklyntotfc. The site is close to home, but far from work. 7am meetings sound like the best option, but it's not something I'm looking forward to. I still don't know how I'll be able to juggle contractor and client calls. Sounds dicey.
Honestly, I do not want to become a partner at my employer's office, though it has been offered and I kindly declined the offer. I have too much desire for independence and I'd rather be in total control of my projects, income, and schedule.
I realize that I can get caught, and possibly fired for moonlighting...though I'm willing to take that chance right now. Otherwise my own office would never be realized. It's kind of a rite of passage. I have no intention of using work supplies for personal projects, so that's not an issue.
Thanks for the advice. I have to plan accordingly...
if you need help in cd's for interiors.... i'm open.
i used to work 2 jobs and did some moonlighting. the trick is to be able to do what you can in a timely fashion. make decisions and don't ponder on designing issues. alot of time is burned in design changes and not having a good contractor to understand your position.
keep designs clean and understandable and buildable. provide enough information to the contractors and see if they can work on the weekends so you can be there also...
good luck
...if you haven't yet, may want to understand your firms policy about moonlighting, some may have concerns about liability extending to them should issues arise.
also know of former associates keeping their moonlighting completely secret during the boom times, folks the firm trusted. then one day announcing they are leaving to start their own practice, already have their own digs down the street and several projects in the pot. everyone know's they did some (if not a lot) of their set-up on company time, and just didn't get caught...would've been hell to pay otherwise (they were asked to leave the day of their announcement).
good luck!
"understand your firms policy about moonlighting"
whats the issue of you doing your own work on your own time.....
especially in these hard times, you have to hustle and find your own work and make moves.
It's time to move on.
If you've already been offered partnership, but declined, and now have a job big enough to substantially distract you from your office work, and state that you "have too much desire for independence and I'd rather be in total control of my projects, income, and schedule. ", then it's time to move on. Cut the cord, stop using your employer as a safety net, and start your own firm. All you need is a computer and a cell phone.
If you need the employment because your job provides the health insurance benefits that your family needs, then stop moonlighting and write your congresspeople urging them to disconnect employment from health care.
c...
you're correct - no issue doing your own work on your own time, infact some firms understand it and encourage it with the hopes of you bringing the work in if it's large enough (as bk- notes above).
other firms have "policy's" - just have to be careful or it could get awkward.
do what you gotta do, man.
Thanks for your responses.
Office policy is that is it discouraged but not 'forbidden.' Can't do any of it on company time or let it affect performance on the job. There is no specific requirement to inform the boss that you are doing work outside the office. But I do realize it is not very tactful to moonlight and can often be difficult to manage...which is precisely the purpose of my post.
Cryzko...thanks for the offer. I think I'm fine with the design, detailing, and filing the project. It's the CA work that I anticipate to be a bit of a strain.
FP
Liberty..Sorry, but I think your post is a bit rash. I think you're making an assumption that I'm taking advantage of my employer. Truth is that I have tremendous responsibility managing numerous projects for the firm and have never let them down. I perform my responsibilities with great care and to the satisfaction of my employer. They are getting quite a bit from me also.
Just because I desire independence doesn't mean I simply abandon my job, especially not in this economy, and certainly with not enough work to maintain my current salary. That would be just plain irresponsible. Would you take your own advice if you were in my situation?
I also think it would be detrimental to the firm I'm working at, considering they rely on me for many of their projects. It's easy to say, "just leave," but I think a reality check is in order.
So become a partner. Take that drive for control and use it in a partnership position.
I don't at all think that you are taking advantage of your employer. I do suspect that they are not quite sure what to make of you, since you turned down their offer, but as you say I really don't know your situation.
What I do know is that if I offered someone a partnership and they turned it down but didn't move on to another job, I'd question their motives and commitment to the firm. And if I later found out they were doing big jobs on the sly, I'd be super pissed off and feel VERY taken advantage of, whether they had been a stellar employee in that time or not.
And, uh, yeah, I actually did take my own advice - I left a job where I was on partner track, had huge responsibility, and they loved me. I took a major hit in salary, lost all my benefits, and moved my family to a new city. It was highly irresponsible.
But that's what people do when they start their own firm. Leap and the net will appear.
i can't imagine how a "residential renovation" project would be large enough to launch an office... especially in this economy...
hat's off to l-b, that's an admirable story. gotta have some kahona's to do it - the only way to go.
yeah, architphil - residential renovation - i can't see it, either...unless it's bill gate's residence or similar.
Look, I'm not saying you HAVE to move on, but it's worth thinking about. If you want to run your own show, you have to put up with a LOT of uncertainty. If you become a partner, you share in the uncertainty too.
And even in this economy, residential remodel (at least in my area) is going pretty well.
As to the advice you asked for: like bklyn said, schedule early morning meetings, keep all conversations on your cell phone, and make sure your client signs a contract stating that your employer has absolutely no responsibility for any of the work you do. There have, yes, been cases of clients going after the firm of the person moonlighting when things went bad. You definitely don't want to be in that situation. Also, I'd go ahead and tell your employer - better to have it out in the open with an absolute certainty that NO office resources will go to the project.
Liberty,
Not all people can adjust their lifestyles in the exact way you did. What works for you may not work for others. I appreciate your opinion, but I'm saying that in my situation, it is not an option to quit. I'd be reducing my salary to less than a quarter of what I'm making now. The odds of survival for my family in New York (one of the most expensive cities in the world, mind you) would not be great. Currently, 40% of my salary goes to just rent. That is why I think your post is not realistic. At least not for me.
Sometimes people leap and there is no net. I know many firms in New York that have not weathered the storm. Many others have downsized drastically. Why would I take those chances? Sure, if I had enough work to reach 80% of my salary, perhaps that's a leap that's worth it, but until then it's just plain irresponsible.
By the way, by "Larger" projects I'm not talking about a sports arena or hospital or retail store. It's an residential interior renovation that happens to be more than just a small kitchen or bath renovation. By no means is it significant, and it's small enough that my boss would certainly turn it down if I ever tried to bring it into the office.
Out of curiosity, what city did you move to and what type of project encouraged your move (or rather, what percentage of your salary were you giving up?) Does your partner work also? Did you have a significant savings that you could dip into if things didn't work out? I have a feeling both our situations are quite different and, had you been in mine, you would not have made that leap to independence.
LB...understood...
FP, I've got a somewhat similar situation a-brewin'... except I'm not intended to leave my current job, and my project is an entire house... so let me know how all this works out!.... :-)
You're not talkin' anything that most architects don't go through -- most architects think of eventually owning their own firms. In some fashion, this is how most owners got their own firms. There is no ethical dilemma in planning a larger future for oneself, and most of this future planning need not be a concern of your current employer.
But... and before anyone jumps on what i just wrote... I'd be very open about your specific current moonlighting project, and so I'd suggest a conversation with your boss ASAP. I seriously doubt that once you let them know that you'd like to do a partial remodel on the side, that they are going to object. I also doubt that it's the first time it's come up. Work out with them how to keep it legally separate, how to keep it OUTSIDE your day job.
Finally, if your boss is simply not up for the whole thing, then it sounds like for your situation you probably should transition yourself out of the side project. Can't sneak around.
I actually find myself disagreeing with Liberty Bell (one of only a handful of times since I started reading this forum years ago).
FP, if I am reading you correctly, this is your first "larger" moonlighting project, correct? And the potential client knows that this is a moonlighting situation and that you don't have a full practice, correct? If you are deceiving the client in any way, you are asking for HUGE problems, but that is another discussion.
If the above are true, I think that there is no secret...you just have to suck it up and find a way. I think that most people who have grown a moonlighting practice into starting their own firm run into the predicament that you are in and have to just figure it out.
If it were me, I would just make the client aware of your hours. I would invite them to call your cell (or whatever) anytime, but explain that you will respond to their calls or emails within 24 hours during X hours. For residential work, I am sure that the clients would welcome after hours/weekend meetings anyway. For construction observation, I would basically do the same thing with the contractor. I would also increase the number of site meetings to make up for the lack of availability. So why not have 2 or 3 weekly site meetings at 7am instead of 1 per week? It sucks and you will have to sacrifice time with your family (nights, mornings & weekends) for a year or two, but you just have to make it work until you have enough work to support starting a practice. Architectin' ain't easy.
Also, in all honesty, if you think that there will be no salary adjustment for a period of time I think that you are not being realistic, but that is another topic.
Good Luck.
I think a really important factor is that you say you were offered partnership at your current firm and turned it down. That changes the whole picture with regard to moonlighting while still at that firm (IMO). By continuing to moonlight, you are announcing your intention to directly compete with your would be partners. Even if your projects are small and, in your opinion, not something the current firm would work on. I think the situation is substantially different from the typical employee doing some moonlighting. You have basically told your firm "I don't want to share." That leads me to believe they would be a little agitated to find out about your work.
Yes, the client knows I have a 9to5 job and that I am in the process of starting up my own practice. There is no deception when it comes to the client. I agree with all the other posts that by keeping the project secret from my employer that I am being somewhat deceptive to them. Truth is, this is the only way I can start a practice, and I do not feel it is a good idea to be honest about my intentions to start a practice. At least not with this employer. For all I know, it will be another year before i can truly manage my own practice, and during that time I would do everything in my power to perform well at work while juggling personal projects after hours.
Ledoux...It sounds like you consider this an ethical dilemma, as if i am obliged to share personal projects with my employer. Why should i do that if I don't WANT to be a partner? I have ideological differences with my employer, I would run my practice very differently, I have different design sensibilities than them, and, moreover, I was not hired with the premise of becoming a partner. It's one thing to be fair to the employer, but I think it's equally (if not more) important to be fair to myself and my personal career goals.
the advice above sounds fine to me, and obvious even. the only way to manage the time is to do it in off hours. a partner would be ideal, but failing that you are stuck...meaning, there is no way to manage it that is easy. like all things schedule-y in architecture the solution is to just do it.
the situation is more interesting though.
you were offered partner and turned it down and you are still in the office? if i were your boss i would just be waiting for your resignation letter to come in. i know some offices are different, but to me a partner is expected to bring in work. if they offered you a partnership i guess they are expecting you will be taking all future work for yourself....and this is just first step towards that happening.
isn't that awkward? sorry to pry, and of course it is not anyone's business but your own, but i am very curious how you plan to step away from where you are.
in my old office the way we did it was that the newly independent architect would be recomended for the small work, like houses and so on that we wouldn't touch so it was always amicable. in fact since starting my own firm i have worked on 2 very large projects with my old boss, which was awesome cuz we could not try for big work otherwise...but we never compete. i was not offered partnership though. somehow that feels like it means something...or perhaps not?
Jump,
It is admittedly an awkward position to be in. I have tremendous respect for my boss. He is intelligent, thoughtful, and is generally quite easy to work with (as far as bosses are concerned). But, it was never my intention to be a partner at this firm...though I honestly did consider it when the offer came up. It has been over a year since the offer and I am still here. No regrets, and at this point my relationship with my boss is fine. When I decide the time is right to break free and officially start up my practice, I will just be honest with them.
If they ever discovered my intentions to start a practice before that time, I would be honest with them also, but until then I am devoted entirely to my responsibilities to the firm during office hours, and would be devoted entirely to my side projects after-hours. That's what moonlighting is supposed to be about.
But obviously my post points to some concern that I may not be able to avoid doing some personal work during office hours, unless prior arrangements are made with the client and contractor to avoid such scenarios...Still hoping for other suggestions on how to manage that aspect.
Have you thought of hiring a friend or past co-worker (at different employer) to share the work of this "larger" moonlighting project? Sounds like your question is all about balancing the work load as you've already made your decision about work ethics. Before getting too greedy and burning the candle at both ends bring on a partner of your own in this moonlighting for the CA work and possibly more. Of course I'd go outside your current employer when looking for a partner on this, but I'm sure you know at least someone who could help you out.
My experience has been with employers that strictly forbid all kinds of moonlighting. Since it does sound like this "larger" project could overwhelm you I see another valid reason outside liability for firms to discourage this practice. I do tend to side with LB's comments in regard to cutting the safety net. As she stated, she did move to a different city, pay cut, etc. Your situation is different but have you considered leaving NYC to start your own practice? Seriously, if owning your own firm is your dream you have to be realistic of the sacrifice that will require.
Yes...I've decided to have a partner...it should make things easier, and I've always wanted to work with them. It makes a lot of sense .
CT:
your post reminds me of me.
I just want through the same and would add the following to the above posts.
There is a point where you simply will not be able to do both. You’ll know when it happens when there is no choice anymore. And you’ll need to have a conversation with your employer and see where it goes. Will clearly change your relationship, particularly given the fact you declined a partnership. The firm will reasonably no longer have any interest to invest in you as an employee and whether you intend it or not: it may present a threat to them.
If I may, one residential project doesn’t seem enough work to leave.
Anything can happen to a project along the path to completion and often does.
Financing, lack of approvals, etc.
And everything will take longer than you think.
Your skills are second in line to your client base in being successful.
They are the most important assets you have.
I’m learning:
Being an employee is one thing in that it allows you to focus on the work. Being a principal is entirely another, demanding time on things you may not have even thought about.
Your problem now is not having the time. This doesn’t change. You may find as you establish yourself you will constantly be at new thresholds of managing time and resources.
In the end this all seems to take a path of its own.
At some point there is simply no choice. The work has to get done and you hire someone.
Someone mentioned all you need is a cell phone and a computer. Yes and No.
It helps to get work when you are a “real” business in the eyes of the rest of the world.
It also helps if certain things are in place.
Corporate structure
Liability insurance
Reliable and trusted consultants
And then there are the prerequisite publications and equipment.
Of course this evolves as needed along with the money that goes into it.
I took the leap some time ago and haven’t looked back.
The years to establish relationships with clients, building department officials, consultants leave me with the sense (time will tell) of standing on solid ground…actually something less than quicksand.
Could I have done it sooner?
Sure and I did. It just didn’t work for very long.
L-B said it well. “Jump and the net will appear.”
But be prepared.
Best of luck.
oops ...should have said FP.
you be playing with "Fire"...and it burns...just a thought.. and no damn way can you support a practice on a house renovation...if your in the NYC market...I would suggest you move to Bridgeport and buy aloto f guns, so your cost of living isn't so high....
Mislabeled...thanks for the response...I know now is not the right time for me to take the leap...but soon enough...
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