I suggest we all apply for the JOB....and then ask for 1/2 his fee.
All you have to do is send in an email.....remember don't charge less the $125.00 and hour cause your doing it on the cheap. I'm sure he must make some thing like $800.00 and hour but who knows maybe his wife is wealthy....his father was wealthy.
email him and waste a little of his time telling him what you really thing of taking advantage of interns: [email protected]
perhaps it is definitely not for the public good. i've done pro bono work, that probably isn't what this is, even though it's a religious institution. lately, i've been doing things like: my sister's friend, who's unhappy with her architect, asked me to redesign several aspects of her new house, and what i received in payment was a pizza (this is a true story). i suppose her incompetent architect will continue to be a millionaire, which he is.
but hey, can you blame roto? they seem like nice people, and will probably take on an ASU student who will get at least one free beer out of it. as infuriating as it may be, i have enough pay-less time on my hands as it is that i'd do it if i still lived in the dusty triangle. i don't think they're on the cusp of dissolving and while i don't completely disagree with you either, i'm inclined to let this one slide. if they were really about to dissolve, people wouldn't be beggin' to work there for free. a part-time job at the local rei is plenty enough to subsidize this unique opportunity. go devils.
PS i think the opportunity to live in china with "(room, board, stipend) during construction" is a pretty good deal.
my perception has changed. when i come back from this depression, i will be lean and mean. i will again be a powerhouse.
perhaps it is definitely not for the public good. i've done pro bono work, that probably isn't what this is, even though it's a religious institution. lately, i've been doing things like: my sister's friend, who's unhappy with her architect, asked me to redesign several aspects of her new house, and what i received in payment was a pizza (this is a true story). i suppose her incompetent architect will continue to be a millionaire, which he is.
but hey, can you blame roto? they seem like nice people, and will probably take on an ASU student who will get at least one free beer out of it. as infuriating as it may be, i have enough pay-less time on my hands as it is that i'd do it if i still lived in the dusty triangle. i don't think they're on the cusp of dissolving and while i don't completely disagree with you either, i'm inclined to let this one slide. if they were really about to dissolve, people wouldn't be beggin' to work there for free. a part-time job at the local rei is plenty enough to subsidize this unique opportunity. go devils.
PS i think the opportunity to live in china with "(room, board, stipend) during construction" is a pretty good deal.
my perception has changed. when i come back from this depression, i will be lean and mean. i will again be a powerhouse.
a. he is asking for volunteers in the advertisement. i've had a number of firms have me come in only to tell me the position is non-paid. i would have rather they tell me upfront so i wouldn't waste my time.
b. i would consider architectural work done as a favor to a church pro bono because these institutions serve the community. the buddhist temple my mom goes to once asked me to do some elevation studies pro bono. i did it for free and it felt good.
c. many firms with non-pay interns often pay stipend after you start working for them. they just don't advertise it.
maybe i've missed something in the ad... where's the harm here? he's not asking for someone to come work under false pretenses. what would be the real difference if cameron had posted this ad? that michael's a for profit company?
look, i'm not affiliated at all with roto - i do know that when michael came to speak at tech 10-15 years ago, he made it a particular point in his lecture to describe how his practice takes on 2-3 projects a year, all for non-profits, where he would donate his time up through schematic design, to help the group get something they could use to do fundraising for the project. his criteria were the groups mission and the challenge it presented as architecture. for the projects that went forward, he would recoup his schematic fee on the backside, after the fundraising was complete. some projects never went anywhere, so he literally donated his time.
nothing in that post seems different from the m.o. described above, except that he's looking for the help to donate their time as well. if you don't want to do so, fine, don't reply. if you think he should be paying you to do his pro-bono work, well that seems to be a 'you' issue. he is most certainly not 'taking advantage' of anyone.
Outed - is it clear that Rotondi is doing this work pro bono himself? If that's the case, I'm fine with it. But if Roto is getting a fee for the early stages of these projects and not paying their volunteer/unpaid interns, that's certainly exploitative. Likewise if he backloads the fee and doesn't retroactively pay the folks that fronted him for it (the interns). It'd be interesting to know the real story.
I think what the larger issues is here is the amount of offices that DO treat unpaid interns as common practice, feeling that the privilege to work for them is payment enough. I am noticing it more lately and I suspect that many offices are using the recession as a convenient excuse to shed some higher salaried employees knowing they that there are 100 people lined up down the street willing to work for free. The problem is that it becomes an avalanche situation- the more offices that don't pay, the more that follow suit. This is part of the reason our profession has become so economically devalued.
I am glad though that this is upfront about the non-pay issue. I've gone to more than one interview to find out once I got there that the job would be either non-paid or so little it might as well have been non-paid.
I hate to do, or encourage anyone to do pro bono work, but this actually sounds like a good opportunity for a fresh graduate/student to learn something about the real world of architecture, and get a chance to travel in china while doing that.
i think this is a best job op came up in archinect in a while.
first of all, the job is real, specified and there are no hidden agenda. everything is up front like michael wouldn't have any other way.
i consider rotondi a good friend and i guarantee you there are no profiteering and or exploitation involved in this. he is just not that kind of a person and have totally different priorities in life that involves higher platforms than those perhaps unknowingly mentioned in above posts.
you guys might not consider this but even the job is not able to pay you 10-15 dollars ph as an intern, its benefits are much more valuable than the monetary amount.
michael is a great mentor for the right person and it is a privilege for an intern to work directly with someone on his level of teaching and architectural experience, talent.
what a great follow up as well to go to china and actually take a part in the construction of something you have helped to design and put together.
i bet if there was money involved, he would not ask anybody to work for free and he would share the income proportionately.
also ad says, if you are in school, you get credit even though you are not a student in one of the schools he teaches like sci arc, asu, or woodbury or what else....probably he can talk to your dean and make that happen. that itself has some monetary compensation if translated to tuition.
go for it and apply, if you can of course. this is a great opportunity for a student or a newly graduated, that is sure to help in a great way for future jobs and opportunities.
this summer, there are thousands of students who won't be getting a job that pays anyway.
people like roto are not your usual run of the mill architects...
the problem with people complaining about unpaid internships is that they are always seeing the job in terms of money. there can be plenty of opportunity for personal enrichment & gain in any job (even with a hack).
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this job. In fact, this is a great opportunity for a student or recent grad who does not have much professional experience to add a significant project to their portfolio, travel to china, oversee the construction for a few months (expenses paid), and establish a working relationship with RoTo. In this economic climate, job opportunities like this should be welcomed, not criticized. If you think it's a raw deal, don't go for it. Someone else will surely see the benefits it may have to their professional career and portfolio.
What about this scenario: A for-profit client has a competition to select an architect to work pro-bono for all phases of design of construction of a project that could be amazing. There are few if any other opportunities for architects to get projects of this kind. Is it okay for that client to ask the architects to work without compensation because of the potential experience of working on the project and future profile of the built work, which could impel a young career?
funny thing is , I was considering applying for this since I need some IDP credit and have time this summer. he would be great to work for and get exposure to ..he really is a luminary.
I guess my hang up is that it is a Catholic Church. LOL
As for working for free ( and on competitions)..yeah it seems to me on the rise. I do it a little here and there myself, but I chalk it up to research and development of my education. Of course i have a bunch of lil side jobs I have dig up to pay the rent.
so in the end with all of the "compensation" i.e. living expenses in china and the college credit, would someone need to pay taxes? because in the end doesn't ALL of that constitute remuneration for services?
does the catholic church really need pro bono work, have there been more priest cases i wasn't aware of?
So how come the Catholic Chuch can't kick up some of their Vatican Gold, in order to help out in China? This is where I'm puzzled. I see them tearing down perfectly good buildings here in America just to make room for parking lots. I as an individual would have to look long and hard at doing anything Pro-bono for the Catholic Church.
They hold more valuable real estate in this country than probably any
singular group and yes they pay no taxes, on churches, schools, housing. I don't think they ask Architects in this country to work for free.
you all have almost convinced me to apply.
snook, a Catholic Church in China must be a very different story than here in the US.
I recently thought a church must be one of the nicest programs to work with. just the right amount of constraints and if you're not too cynical, you can feel good about your work, too.
i mean, why do you all have to assume that being catholic in china=big bugs? this is silly. catholics are a minority there and they are still persecuted by the government.
maybe you should get your facts straight before assuming all kinds of financial implications.
ckl, the Catholic Church has been the world's largest real estate holder as recently as the 1980s. Obviously the Church in China may have less than Italy or America, but there is more than enough money in the Catholic Church as a global institution to pay designers - or anyone - who work for them.
I have done a lot of work for Protestant churches, and yes it's work for communities of people that I felt good about helping. But they paid me.
That said, I agree that RoTo is putting out an honest offer and whoever takes it will likely get a valuable learning experience. But I do think there is a huge difference between agreeing to do pro bono work as a firm owner who can take on the loss of fee vs. taking a "job" as an unpaid intern. As a firm owner one should be willing to do work one believes in, but agreeing to do that work on the back of someone unpaid rubs me the wrong way. yes, the school credit thing is an acceptable alternative, assuming it really is a learning experience not getting school credit for, you know, cleaning out the materials library.
Back in the day, I was offered an internship at Morphosis on a "pro-bono" basis. So I doubt that this is indicative of anything current within RoTo's office. And Orhan is correct, when I briefly knew Michael R, he was always a class act.
i think it's simple, if an owner can bill for the work an intern does, then the intern should get paid for that work
if the work is un-billable, the owner is not obligated to pay so long as that is agreed upon upfront, and i think an intern should know the difference between the two.
in other words, don't do billable work for free, but be aware there is a lot of un-billable work out there that could be a good opportunity for some.
And make sure that the intern can do the work. That's a huge issue. If it takes an intern 40 hours to do 5 worth of work, the intern needs more direction and maybe the Architect needs a new intern. The intern has to have a clue when they show up. If they have a clue and can work within the lines given them and the project is an income-producing one, then the intern needs to be paid. If it's pro bono and it's clear from the beginning that they are work on a pro bono project, then it's something different.
I'm IBM the Church of Computers and Roto (ruta) cause I don't know any different would you be willing to do a Church for our committed believers pro-bono? I think not and well I look at the Catholic Church in the same manner. This past couple of years has spelled out the financial depth of this organization in payment for Priest who prey on boys. Come on....Pro-bono...so were setting the Catholic Church Straight in China by Architecture by providing it Free. I have not a bad thing to say about roto as he did that project on Pine Ridge a few years ago and I haven't had the money or the time to figured out if it has made life better on the reservation. So I will say he might be a great fellow to work with because he is touched and insprired but to do Pro-bono for the Catholic Church in any Country is way beyond reason.
the catholic church may be one of the oldest and wealthiest institutions in the world, however, they may not have nearly as much money as many of us would assume. most of their wealth is in real estate and priceless artwork which are not very liquid in terms of dollars & sense.
apparently most of their cash flow is directly tied to weekly donations. i'm not sure how stable a source of income that is, but the vatican has gotten into some financial trouble before (just google "roberto calvi" or "god's banker") with some shady financial dealings in an attempt to boost their wealth and—considering the rash of bad financial deals coming to light during the economy of the past year—i'd hardly be surprised if the vatican guessed wrong again.
perhaps a better title for this thread would have been "Vatican about to implode?"
I have to disappoint you in the EU it's illegal to hire someone pro-bono. It's an oxymoron in the profit based business relation. There is no legal duress that authorize 'free labor' in the profit based economy.
As far as Japan is concerned I have no idea. But, in the past some people have sued architects even for the amount of compensation, weekly payments etc. America?
Hey, what a heck this is, in my opinion, lawless country. The only way to prove that law exist is to hire a good lawyer to fight for you. Anyone? I thought so.
Even if you had one available it would cost you in an amount that would defeat the purpose of your goal. Further, if you had one this means you have enough money to pursue you own venture.
Puddles The Catholic Church is actually a country within Italy. I know they have been kicking alot of money lately to cover the cost of there priest with wandering hands, but come on. If a bunch of new age christians are willing to pay for architecture services then why not the Catholic Church. I say this because I have done more than one
church. I have worked with those tightly ordered old churches and those running missionary programs with people being detained in prisions. I never give them the full blown architectural fee and I'm sure everyone involved with the project is paid. There is something really off about this senerio. Seems like the Mother Church would embrase building a church in China and fund it to the max to off set all of those they are boarding up here in America.
Yes, but it is illegal and you can easily report it. I know this for a fact and it is at least the case in several EU countries. There are probably variations.
However, I can give you my own personal example since I came with the attitude and the experience from the other side of the Atlantic. The country in question happened to be a very young nascent liberal(ed) economy on the eastern shore of the EU border. I was offered a very good position, but with a lesser income than expected. The truth is that the salary was excellent (for an architect), but the state expropriated my income as if I was a citizen of that country - a left-over from an old (red) system. When I proposed a solution which involved reporting on paper an income in the country with a completely different tax rating system where the central office of the design firm was based, I was frankly advised that it would not work out (obviously someone already tried) since in the EU tax systems are coordinated. This means that even if I was declared as a freelancer with a temporary business based residency, I have had to prove that my presence in that country (or any other) was based on that relationship. Had I been registered for income/tax purposes in the other country I had to declare the presence in that country not the one I was planning to work in. By the way, that was the end of conversation and I could sense a gravity of this gambit.
Also, I know personally an individual who easily recovered fees and penalties from the OMA office for non-paid work or service agreement that was not honored. I beg your pardon, but I must say he did not pay a dime for a lawyer. Of course, there are always exceptions and people who casually brake laws; but, I guess, this was not point of this thread. And also you have to willingly participate in your own self-abuse - masohism or whatever other reason
May 17, 09 12:46 am ·
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RoTo about to implode?
RoTo's latest job advert seeks to take advantage of a student, when their client is
a. catholic church
b. china
the longer i'm out of school, the more infuriating i find this. ok, i admit, times are hard. but pro bono?
now, i realize working sans pay is part of the culture of working in japan, and to some extent, the e.u. it's not falesly advertised as pro bono
but seriously, not even a small stipend? there is no "public service" about this job, it's a private enterprise taking advantage of a worker.
has RoTo been taken over by hacks? or are they just at the cusp of dissolving?
holz, i was unsure about whether to start this thread, so i posted my comment earlier on TC, but i agree.
pro bono is the neu unpaid intern.
I suggest we all apply for the JOB....and then ask for 1/2 his fee.
All you have to do is send in an email.....remember don't charge less the $125.00 and hour cause your doing it on the cheap. I'm sure he must make some thing like $800.00 and hour but who knows maybe his wife is wealthy....his father was wealthy.
email him and waste a little of his time telling him what you really thing of taking advantage of interns: [email protected]
i have no issue w/ michael taking the project for free, but i think there should be some renumeration for the work done in d.d.
perhaps it is definitely not for the public good. i've done pro bono work, that probably isn't what this is, even though it's a religious institution. lately, i've been doing things like: my sister's friend, who's unhappy with her architect, asked me to redesign several aspects of her new house, and what i received in payment was a pizza (this is a true story). i suppose her incompetent architect will continue to be a millionaire, which he is.
but hey, can you blame roto? they seem like nice people, and will probably take on an ASU student who will get at least one free beer out of it. as infuriating as it may be, i have enough pay-less time on my hands as it is that i'd do it if i still lived in the dusty triangle. i don't think they're on the cusp of dissolving and while i don't completely disagree with you either, i'm inclined to let this one slide. if they were really about to dissolve, people wouldn't be beggin' to work there for free. a part-time job at the local rei is plenty enough to subsidize this unique opportunity. go devils.
PS i think the opportunity to live in china with "(room, board, stipend) during construction" is a pretty good deal.
my perception has changed. when i come back from this depression, i will be lean and mean. i will again be a powerhouse.
perhaps it is definitely not for the public good. i've done pro bono work, that probably isn't what this is, even though it's a religious institution. lately, i've been doing things like: my sister's friend, who's unhappy with her architect, asked me to redesign several aspects of her new house, and what i received in payment was a pizza (this is a true story). i suppose her incompetent architect will continue to be a millionaire, which he is.
but hey, can you blame roto? they seem like nice people, and will probably take on an ASU student who will get at least one free beer out of it. as infuriating as it may be, i have enough pay-less time on my hands as it is that i'd do it if i still lived in the dusty triangle. i don't think they're on the cusp of dissolving and while i don't completely disagree with you either, i'm inclined to let this one slide. if they were really about to dissolve, people wouldn't be beggin' to work there for free. a part-time job at the local rei is plenty enough to subsidize this unique opportunity. go devils.
PS i think the opportunity to live in china with "(room, board, stipend) during construction" is a pretty good deal.
my perception has changed. when i come back from this depression, i will be lean and mean. i will again be a powerhouse.
i don't have a problem with it because
a. he is asking for volunteers in the advertisement. i've had a number of firms have me come in only to tell me the position is non-paid. i would have rather they tell me upfront so i wouldn't waste my time.
b. i would consider architectural work done as a favor to a church pro bono because these institutions serve the community. the buddhist temple my mom goes to once asked me to do some elevation studies pro bono. i did it for free and it felt good.
c. many firms with non-pay interns often pay stipend after you start working for them. they just don't advertise it.
maybe i've missed something in the ad... where's the harm here? he's not asking for someone to come work under false pretenses. what would be the real difference if cameron had posted this ad? that michael's a for profit company?
look, i'm not affiliated at all with roto - i do know that when michael came to speak at tech 10-15 years ago, he made it a particular point in his lecture to describe how his practice takes on 2-3 projects a year, all for non-profits, where he would donate his time up through schematic design, to help the group get something they could use to do fundraising for the project. his criteria were the groups mission and the challenge it presented as architecture. for the projects that went forward, he would recoup his schematic fee on the backside, after the fundraising was complete. some projects never went anywhere, so he literally donated his time.
nothing in that post seems different from the m.o. described above, except that he's looking for the help to donate their time as well. if you don't want to do so, fine, don't reply. if you think he should be paying you to do his pro-bono work, well that seems to be a 'you' issue. he is most certainly not 'taking advantage' of anyone.
Outed - is it clear that Rotondi is doing this work pro bono himself? If that's the case, I'm fine with it. But if Roto is getting a fee for the early stages of these projects and not paying their volunteer/unpaid interns, that's certainly exploitative. Likewise if he backloads the fee and doesn't retroactively pay the folks that fronted him for it (the interns). It'd be interesting to know the real story.
I think what the larger issues is here is the amount of offices that DO treat unpaid interns as common practice, feeling that the privilege to work for them is payment enough. I am noticing it more lately and I suspect that many offices are using the recession as a convenient excuse to shed some higher salaried employees knowing they that there are 100 people lined up down the street willing to work for free. The problem is that it becomes an avalanche situation- the more offices that don't pay, the more that follow suit. This is part of the reason our profession has become so economically devalued.
I am glad though that this is upfront about the non-pay issue. I've gone to more than one interview to find out once I got there that the job would be either non-paid or so little it might as well have been non-paid.
I hate to do, or encourage anyone to do pro bono work, but this actually sounds like a good opportunity for a fresh graduate/student to learn something about the real world of architecture, and get a chance to travel in china while doing that.
i think this is a best job op came up in archinect in a while.
first of all, the job is real, specified and there are no hidden agenda. everything is up front like michael wouldn't have any other way.
i consider rotondi a good friend and i guarantee you there are no profiteering and or exploitation involved in this. he is just not that kind of a person and have totally different priorities in life that involves higher platforms than those perhaps unknowingly mentioned in above posts.
you guys might not consider this but even the job is not able to pay you 10-15 dollars ph as an intern, its benefits are much more valuable than the monetary amount.
michael is a great mentor for the right person and it is a privilege for an intern to work directly with someone on his level of teaching and architectural experience, talent.
what a great follow up as well to go to china and actually take a part in the construction of something you have helped to design and put together.
i bet if there was money involved, he would not ask anybody to work for free and he would share the income proportionately.
also ad says, if you are in school, you get credit even though you are not a student in one of the schools he teaches like sci arc, asu, or woodbury or what else....probably he can talk to your dean and make that happen. that itself has some monetary compensation if translated to tuition.
go for it and apply, if you can of course. this is a great opportunity for a student or a newly graduated, that is sure to help in a great way for future jobs and opportunities.
this summer, there are thousands of students who won't be getting a job that pays anyway.
people like roto are not your usual run of the mill architects...
the problem with people complaining about unpaid internships is that they are always seeing the job in terms of money. there can be plenty of opportunity for personal enrichment & gain in any job (even with a hack).
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this job. In fact, this is a great opportunity for a student or recent grad who does not have much professional experience to add a significant project to their portfolio, travel to china, oversee the construction for a few months (expenses paid), and establish a working relationship with RoTo. In this economic climate, job opportunities like this should be welcomed, not criticized. If you think it's a raw deal, don't go for it. Someone else will surely see the benefits it may have to their professional career and portfolio.
What about this scenario: A for-profit client has a competition to select an architect to work pro-bono for all phases of design of construction of a project that could be amazing. There are few if any other opportunities for architects to get projects of this kind. Is it okay for that client to ask the architects to work without compensation because of the potential experience of working on the project and future profile of the built work, which could impel a young career?
sallie mae doesn't accept "personal enrichment & gain" as a form of payment.
neither does my landlord.
funny thing is , I was considering applying for this since I need some IDP credit and have time this summer. he would be great to work for and get exposure to ..he really is a luminary.
I guess my hang up is that it is a Catholic Church. LOL
As for working for free ( and on competitions)..yeah it seems to me on the rise. I do it a little here and there myself, but I chalk it up to research and development of my education. Of course i have a bunch of lil side jobs I have dig up to pay the rent.
so in the end with all of the "compensation" i.e. living expenses in china and the college credit, would someone need to pay taxes? because in the end doesn't ALL of that constitute remuneration for services?
does the catholic church really need pro bono work, have there been more priest cases i wasn't aware of?
So how come the Catholic Chuch can't kick up some of their Vatican Gold, in order to help out in China? This is where I'm puzzled. I see them tearing down perfectly good buildings here in America just to make room for parking lots. I as an individual would have to look long and hard at doing anything Pro-bono for the Catholic Church.
They hold more valuable real estate in this country than probably any
singular group and yes they pay no taxes, on churches, schools, housing. I don't think they ask Architects in this country to work for free.
you all have almost convinced me to apply.
snook, a Catholic Church in China must be a very different story than here in the US.
I recently thought a church must be one of the nicest programs to work with. just the right amount of constraints and if you're not too cynical, you can feel good about your work, too.
i mean, why do you all have to assume that being catholic in china=big bugs? this is silly. catholics are a minority there and they are still persecuted by the government.
maybe you should get your facts straight before assuming all kinds of financial implications.
ckl, the Catholic Church has been the world's largest real estate holder as recently as the 1980s. Obviously the Church in China may have less than Italy or America, but there is more than enough money in the Catholic Church as a global institution to pay designers - or anyone - who work for them.
I have done a lot of work for Protestant churches, and yes it's work for communities of people that I felt good about helping. But they paid me.
That said, I agree that RoTo is putting out an honest offer and whoever takes it will likely get a valuable learning experience. But I do think there is a huge difference between agreeing to do pro bono work as a firm owner who can take on the loss of fee vs. taking a "job" as an unpaid intern. As a firm owner one should be willing to do work one believes in, but agreeing to do that work on the back of someone unpaid rubs me the wrong way. yes, the school credit thing is an acceptable alternative, assuming it really is a learning experience not getting school credit for, you know, cleaning out the materials library.
Back in the day, I was offered an internship at Morphosis on a "pro-bono" basis. So I doubt that this is indicative of anything current within RoTo's office. And Orhan is correct, when I briefly knew Michael R, he was always a class act.
I couldn't do it, but wish that I could have.
i think it's simple, if an owner can bill for the work an intern does, then the intern should get paid for that work
if the work is un-billable, the owner is not obligated to pay so long as that is agreed upon upfront, and i think an intern should know the difference between the two.
in other words, don't do billable work for free, but be aware there is a lot of un-billable work out there that could be a good opportunity for some.
this a bit of a gray area, but dot's last statement sums up my feelings...
TANSTAFL
And make sure that the intern can do the work. That's a huge issue. If it takes an intern 40 hours to do 5 worth of work, the intern needs more direction and maybe the Architect needs a new intern. The intern has to have a clue when they show up. If they have a clue and can work within the lines given them and the project is an income-producing one, then the intern needs to be paid. If it's pro bono and it's clear from the beginning that they are work on a pro bono project, then it's something different.
Cheers!
Some nice work on that Roto page!
I'm IBM the Church of Computers and Roto (ruta) cause I don't know any different would you be willing to do a Church for our committed believers pro-bono? I think not and well I look at the Catholic Church in the same manner. This past couple of years has spelled out the financial depth of this organization in payment for Priest who prey on boys. Come on....Pro-bono...so were setting the Catholic Church Straight in China by Architecture by providing it Free. I have not a bad thing to say about roto as he did that project on Pine Ridge a few years ago and I haven't had the money or the time to figured out if it has made life better on the reservation. So I will say he might be a great fellow to work with because he is touched and insprired but to do Pro-bono for the Catholic Church in any Country is way beyond reason.
the catholic church may be one of the oldest and wealthiest institutions in the world, however, they may not have nearly as much money as many of us would assume. most of their wealth is in real estate and priceless artwork which are not very liquid in terms of dollars & sense.
apparently most of their cash flow is directly tied to weekly donations. i'm not sure how stable a source of income that is, but the vatican has gotten into some financial trouble before (just google "roberto calvi" or "god's banker") with some shady financial dealings in an attempt to boost their wealth and—considering the rash of bad financial deals coming to light during the economy of the past year—i'd hardly be surprised if the vatican guessed wrong again.
perhaps a better title for this thread would have been "Vatican about to implode?"
as long as ROTO is doing their work ProBono, i think it's a very fair advert...otherwise, it's not right, and i'd expect more of them.
I have to disappoint you in the EU it's illegal to hire someone pro-bono. It's an oxymoron in the profit based business relation. There is no legal duress that authorize 'free labor' in the profit based economy.
As far as Japan is concerned I have no idea. But, in the past some people have sued architects even for the amount of compensation, weekly payments etc. America?
Hey, what a heck this is, in my opinion, lawless country. The only way to prove that law exist is to hire a good lawyer to fight for you. Anyone? I thought so.
Even if you had one available it would cost you in an amount that would defeat the purpose of your goal. Further, if you had one this means you have enough money to pursue you own venture.
Oh, one more thing: I do not think Michael Rotondi is the worse case scenario. There are far worse and beguiling examples in the US
non-pay internships happen frequently in the EU. I know this for a fact.
i agree with dot. i heard many stories from primary sources
Puddles The Catholic Church is actually a country within Italy. I know they have been kicking alot of money lately to cover the cost of there priest with wandering hands, but come on. If a bunch of new age christians are willing to pay for architecture services then why not the Catholic Church. I say this because I have done more than one
church. I have worked with those tightly ordered old churches and those running missionary programs with people being detained in prisions. I never give them the full blown architectural fee and I'm sure everyone involved with the project is paid. There is something really off about this senerio. Seems like the Mother Church would embrase building a church in China and fund it to the max to off set all of those they are boarding up here in America.
Yes, but it is illegal and you can easily report it. I know this for a fact and it is at least the case in several EU countries. There are probably variations.
However, I can give you my own personal example since I came with the attitude and the experience from the other side of the Atlantic. The country in question happened to be a very young nascent liberal(ed) economy on the eastern shore of the EU border. I was offered a very good position, but with a lesser income than expected. The truth is that the salary was excellent (for an architect), but the state expropriated my income as if I was a citizen of that country - a left-over from an old (red) system. When I proposed a solution which involved reporting on paper an income in the country with a completely different tax rating system where the central office of the design firm was based, I was frankly advised that it would not work out (obviously someone already tried) since in the EU tax systems are coordinated. This means that even if I was declared as a freelancer with a temporary business based residency, I have had to prove that my presence in that country (or any other) was based on that relationship. Had I been registered for income/tax purposes in the other country I had to declare the presence in that country not the one I was planning to work in. By the way, that was the end of conversation and I could sense a gravity of this gambit.
Also, I know personally an individual who easily recovered fees and penalties from the OMA office for non-paid work or service agreement that was not honored. I beg your pardon, but I must say he did not pay a dime for a lawyer. Of course, there are always exceptions and people who casually brake laws; but, I guess, this was not point of this thread. And also you have to willingly participate in your own self-abuse - masohism or whatever other reason
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