Dress in all black

I knew I forgot something. If I look like a hip architecture student they have to let me in to their exclusive club. I am about to go buy some overly designed shoes and too short pants to complete my ensemble.

whats your qualifications or are you still in school? i hate when practices 'use' the term and individual as 'intern' -- it is truely inappropriate.

with that said on a less serious point ....either....

1]walk into the pres / vp's office demand you should get a corner office and vp title -- flipped them off if they say NO and force you back to your form core models....

2]if you are learning something.....sit back....take a breather....you have about 30-50 years ahead of you.....its there time now....yours will come in time.

nameste.

Sahar,

Be patient. You have only been there 4 months – that’s not very long.

If you really want to be more involved in the entire process from pre-design through construction observation you would be better off at a small firm. Although, even at a small firm I think it could take up to a year before you are exposed to clients.

Dave and TED,

Thanks for the advice. I know I am lacking in work experience, but I have the educational equivalent of the majority of the employees in the office, so it becomes depressing.

Are you a paid intern out of school or are you an in school intern required to do so as part of your major.

How many hours a week? How many Days?

paid, 7 days a week, 40 hours (and occasional overtime)

sahar-
i have 2 years of "intern" experience from my time in school, have been out of school and at my current job ( with a firm of only 6 people ) for over a year, do a ton of the work around here, and STILL have to push to get into a meeting with clients. In a place like gensler you're lucky they know your name or say thank you when you do a good job on something. I have found that with good work and always pushing for more responsibility I have been given more than I would like to take on. As long as you are learning, you are on the right track.

Oh, and the only benefit of being in on a client meeting are the donuts.

You should get credit for what you do, I understand putting your hard work into a project and having someone else present it is not a good feeling, but you are part of the team, just like the framing sub is part of the job. That's what you are A SUB... in time you will move up and be recognized for all that you do.

Many times I have asked for negative and positive feedback from my superiors, once that line of communication is open - you will learn what it takes to be in the loop and recognized for good deeds as well as mistakes... they probably don't know how talented you are - so keep working as hard as you do and don't do what most other frustrated folks do - which is give the minimum effort to get a paycheck.

Think 5 years from now, where do you want to be and lay that plan out.

you cant have all the indians in the meetings with the chiefs else the clients gets thinking he's paying too much whampum.....and then realizes its the lacky 'intern' as indian are really doing the stuff when he is paying for the active participation of the chiefs.....is a secret that most chiefs protect dont want the clients to get.

the chiefs loose their role + rank if your in the meeting....in big corp world unfortunately some choose to run their projects 'knowledge is power' so they loose the control if you know everything about everything v. they control what you know...[what would they do if you out speak them in a meeting because of your direct understanding of the detailed aspects of the project].

the brilliance of whatever education superiority you may have over your colleagues cant replace the knowledge gained by rolling up your sleeves and doing the projects over many many years-- you didnt get it all in school, you should be learning every second there.

i know a couple of the top senior folks in gens sf and they are bright and good people and represent to the aia national as gensler the best experience for interns....bla bla bla [im certain you know who i am speaking of]. if you were in gens-chi town, i hear its a bit of a dis-functional group there..... as i understand sf really supports a strong so-called intern program, dont they have discussion groups in house to talk how to make things better?

again...be patienced.

Thanks for all the comments. From the information, I have decided that as long as I am learning I shouldn't complain AND that it takes time to move through the hierarchy of a firm, especially when it is large.

TED,

Thanks for the comments. I am not trying to trash Gensler. This issue is something that a majority of my class has experienced in the workplace, and they work at a variety of firms.

The office is trying to revise the intern program, which supposedly gets done every few years, and I think some of my earlier input was taken into consideration. The office is quite diverse in experience, education, etc. I am impressed by this. I always thought a firm this large would be more impersonal than it actually is.

Sahar - which Gensler office do you work in? I've known people to get their IDP experience quite well at Gensler. Isn't that one reason for your complaints?

I would say 4 months isn't very long but when I was 4 months into my first job I was already getting face time with clients. Actually most clients are very understanding if it's explained to them that you are young in the profession and learning.

Also, as I read about what you've been doing I kinda wish that I could remove myself from client meetings and spend my time doing massing models, etc. Enjoy it while you're there because someday you won't have the time to do that and will have your own interns take care of that.

I second A - enjoy your time building models and creating renderings while you are doing it. I really miss that stuff now that I don't get to do it...

sahar, i didnt sense you were trashing it.

in big firms you get so many different types, some of the 'lifers' sometimes can be theatened by good people. gens generally does try with all staff with regards to professional development -- probably it is the best it can be in the big firm world.

i do think in the big firms, being a manager doesnt necessarily mean you understand or have the skills to get the best out of the project team no matter what level of experience anyone on that team has. just remember the lonely intern some day when you become a chief --

Yeh, I'm a little of sick of it too. I do the design, the drawings, plot the sutff off and watch it go out the door with the project architect. Then he comes back and gives me a half-assed version of what we need to do next, not able to communicate correctly what needs to be changed, and I have to guess at what he is talking about. Then I interpret what he says, let him look it over, he says, "hmmm, not quite like that", then he tells me more of what the client said and I try again. In other words, I am the second hand architect. When I force my way into meetings, and I do, SO much gets accomplished. I know the design better than the proj. arch. and I can find solutions to the clients design needs right then and there cause I know the design! Is this a joke? Pretty funny. Let's eliminate the middle man.

Listen To TED Kid
He Knows alot.
God I'm 40 And I Still get told to SSSSHHHH It from my 75
year old boss. Image Me Getting told what to do.
And remmber We Are All Bozos on This Bus.

the second or third post in this thread says something like, "take a breathe, learn as much as you can, because your time will come".....and this is as wise as it gets i think

:o) we've all been there

if you are still in school and working for a firm, whats the proper name for that?

and as my dad would say "don't worry, before you know it, you'll have someone working for you, just like you are now" I keep that in mind as I head to the office everyday...

cheers

If you've finished your 3rd year of an undergrad architecture major or your first year of an M.Arch program and you're working at least 20 hours per week every week for at least 6 months (or fulltime for at least 10 weeks) then your experience can count toward IDP, and so you are an "Intern".

Even if you're not meeting all those criteria, most firms are going to call you an Intern anyway - or sometimes a Student Intern.

If you work for a firm that only uses students for a particular task then for bookkeeping purposes they might be calling you a Model Builder, Shop Technician, CAD Specialist, etc.

If they're trying to bulk out their firm's resume collection for purposes of wooing new clients then they may be listing you as "Project Designer", "Team Associate", "Architectural Support Technician", or any other silly title that doesn't probably doesn't include the term "Architect."

thanks, cool, cheers

dude, we're interns. we are supposed to be learning. and generally that means learning under someone else's standards of how to be trained properly. people learn differently, if you aren't happy, and don't think you are being challenged adequately i would try to find somewhere else to work.

All offices work differently - whether large or small, some give more responsibility when it comes to design, some when it comes to managing working documents or dealing with clients, some are more open with their management style and business strategy while others are very hierarchical and specific tasks are assigned to employees and they're not supposed to stray too far from that.
Like you, I was frustrated when I worked for a two-person office right out of school but wasn't invited to the meetings for the project I was doing a lot of the design on. I was also frustrated at the next place I worked where I was involved in a large museum project and never allowed to sit in on meetings, even with consultants.
However, now that I have my own office (4 years later) I see it from the other side and can understand why it can be difficult if there are several people from the office at a design meeting and the client is one or two people. We are three partners (no employees yet), and sometimes even with just two of us at a meeting the clients can feel very intimidated, not to mention that we can present contradictory info which can hinder the smooth progress of a project.
The third office I worked in was larger and allowed people with less experience much more contact with clients and consultants. It was great in a way in that I gained experience that has helped me in my own practice. On the other hand, I think that office was managed horribly and a lot of the projects suffer because of it. Frankly, they have a lot of people in management or PA positions who don't know what they're doing - particularly in relation to budgets and this can be very dangerous.
If you're feeling frustrated it's a sign that you are ambitious and want to learn, which is great. As others have advised, you have a long road ahead of you and a lot of experienece to gain. I would ask as many questions as you can, watch and learn. Talk to your co-workers about your frustrations and see what they have to say. Make known you are interested in participating in meetings and eventually you'll be given the opportunity, or you can decide to move on. Learning to work with clients is important, but so is learning how buildings are put together and how to work as a team.

Yeah, TED has some good advice for you. “Growing up” in a large firm can be difficult and very frustrating. And everyone is not always cut out for the corporate firms – which operate in their own little worlds most of the time. Stick with it for a little while and if your not getting what you want out of your work experience go elsewhere. SF is full of smaller firms that would probably offer the client interaction you desire, but a smaller paycheck will probably accompany the experience as well.

On a side note, TED touched on another subject of “bait and switch” which ALL (or at least all large) firms practice but don’t necessarily want their clients to know about. When marketing for those large projects, the résumé’s of the senior employees, the ones with 15 office towers under their belt are sent in answer to RFQ’s, not the intern with a fresh master’s degree. But when the project starts and there is someone else sitting across the table, clients can get a bit jaded which may jeopardize the relationship and future projects down the road. Unfortunately politics play a major role in large projects and that in turn equals politics in the firms designing them.